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Defund the Police


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Really.  Maybe five or ten years but not 30.

I think it’s both.

Activists and what used to be considered “fringe groups” and the Black community have been discussing it for decades.

But it’s really become mainstream over the last 5-10 years because the majority of White Americans have been exposed to the reality of what those above mentioned groups have been living with. Social media and smartphones have been huge instruments in bringing their reality into the rest of our view.

I’ve been a liberal/Democrat/progressive since I cast my first vote at 18. I’ve actually never voted for a Republican. But I naively believed most cops were good people and things like Rodney King were outliers and “bad apples”.

The past 5-7 years have radicalized my beliefs about the police.

And let’s be real - the right wing propaganda machine will twist and exaggerate whatever slogan is used on this problem.

If “Defund the police” moves citizens into pushing for “Reform the police” as the “moderate” option and the end result is the same then that’s a win.

Y’all constantly bitch about how the Democratic Party is bad at messaging and let’s the GQP define the conversation and then turn around and use the GQP bad faith criticism as rationale for why the Democrats should change or moderate their messaging.

My two suggestions with how the Democrats should handle this moving forward are one, be aggressive and own the message and don’t be cowards about owning it and two, highlight the issue of the rottenness of police unions.

I know that criticism of any union sounds scary to old school Dems but police unions are a whole other animal than traditional labor unions.
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1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Defund

The

Police

I think we're getting to the point that "Abolish the Police" makes the most sense.

Completely disband them, and start over from scratch. They've demonstrated, repeatedly and relentlessly, that there is no reforming or improving them.

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44 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

If a cop tries to pull me over on the freeway I guess I'll just stop right in the middle of whatever lane I'm in when they hit the lights. That should go well.

i mean, if she had pulled over on that limited median he would have had her move to a safer spot. what a dickhead

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what's old is new again:

Quote

Moreover, the report deplored a common reaction to riots: arming police officers with more deadly weapons to use in heavily populated urban neighborhoods. Its primary recommendation was “a policy which combines ghetto enrichment with programs designed to encourage integration of substantial numbers of Negroes into the society outside the ghetto.”

Both the Kerner Commission and Newsweek proposed aggressive government spending to provide equal opportunities to African-Americans, and each won praise from African-American leaders and white liberals. Even so, the president of the United States was not a fan.

Quote

Despite Johnson’s feelings, or perhaps because of them, the report became big news. “Johnson Unit Assails Whites in Negro Riots,” read a headline in the New York Times. Rushed into print by Bantam Books, the 708-page report became a best-seller, with 740,000 copies sold in a few weeks. The Times featured front-page articles about the report every day in the first week following its release. Within a few days, both CBS and NBC aired documentaries about the ties between race and poverty.

Backlash was immediate. Polls showed that 53 percent of white Americans condemned the claim that racism had caused the riots, while 58 percent of black Americans agreed with the findings. Even before the report, white support for civil rights was waning. In 1964, most Northern whites had backed Johnson’s civil rights initiatives, but just two years later, polls showed that most Northern whites believed Johnson was pushing too aggressively.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/1968-kerner-commission-got-it-right-nobody-listened-180968318/

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You’ve straight ticket voted for 30 years?

Damn straight and proud of it.

(Actually not really because 70% of the races here don’t even have an actual Democrat running. In those cases I write in someone.)

Because the Republicans in Alabama are bed wetting, bug eating, teenage girl stalking, football coaching, staffer fucking batshit crazy.
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  • 4 weeks later...

When those that have things want to keep them and to keep the have nots at bay, you fund the police. Interesting how that works:

Quote

 

"We feel like the great people of Buckhead have been exploited for way too long."

Buckhead, known for its tree-lined streets, historic landmarks and thriving culinary and shopping scene, is one of the most affluent areas of Atlanta. However, crime has increased significantly as respect and funding for police declines, according to White. 

"The crime is out of control because we have no leadership," White said. "And living in Buckhead right now, everybody's living in fear."

RESIDENTS OF RITZY ATLANTA SUBURB PUSH FOR SEPARATE POLICE FORCE AS CRIME RAGES IN ‘WAR ZONE’: NEIGHBOR

White says Atlanta Mayor Keisha Bottoms’ policies created this problem.

"The criminals feel like they're emboldened because there is no leadership from the city. The mayor has said we're not going to arrest shoplifters, we're not going to chase carjackers."

video

Buckhead resident on decision to break from Atlanta: We're living in a war zone

Bill White, CEO of Buckhead Exploratory Committee, says surging crime led residents to push for their own police department.

"We’re living in a warzone," he said.

If granted independence, residents plan to create their own, properly funded police force for the city of Buckhead.

"[Police] just want to be allowed to do their job and put the smackdown on this crime. And that's what we're going to do in the Buckhead City Police Department."

White estimates that nearly 90 percent of Buckhead residents would vote in favor of the separation. 

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/atlanta-community-buckhead-crime-wave-police-forcehttps://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/atlanta-community-buckhead-crime-wave-police-forcehttps://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/atlanta-community-buckhead-crime-wave-police-force

I believe this has long been the critique: by defunding police or decriminalizing petty crime and things like shoplifting and car jacking, you are going to actually create a bigger disparity in the haves and have nots as those with resources and means will distance themselves even further than those without.

People are not inherently altruistic, you won't find people wanting to lean in to painful, transitionary periods of anything (when push comes to shove) to get to the other side. They move (white flight) or apparently segregate and create their own public utilities and police with their tax base?

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15 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

When those that have things want to keep them and to keep the have nots at bay, you fund the police. Interesting how that works:

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/atlanta-community-buckhead-crime-wave-police-forcehttps://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/atlanta-community-buckhead-crime-wave-police-forcehttps://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/atlanta-community-buckhead-crime-wave-police-force

I believe this has long been the critique: by defunding police or decriminalizing petty crime and things like shoplifting and car jacking, you are going to actually create a bigger disparity in the haves and have nots as those with resources and means will distance themselves even further than those without.

People are not inherently altruistic, you won't find people wanting to lean in to painful, transitionary periods of anything (when push comes to shove) to get to the other side. They move (white flight) or apparently segregate and create their own public utilities and police with their tax base?

LOL at Buckhead crime wave.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 6/10/2021 at 12:52 AM, Bama Chick said:


I think it’s both.

Activists and what used to be considered “fringe groups” and the Black community have been discussing it for decades.

But it’s really become mainstream over the last 5-10 years because the majority of White Americans have been exposed to the reality of what those above mentioned groups have been living with. Social media and smartphones have been huge instruments in bringing their reality into the rest of our view.

I’ve been a liberal/Democrat/progressive since I cast my first vote at 18. I’ve actually never voted for a Republican. But I naively believed most cops were good people and things like Rodney King were outliers and “bad apples”.

The past 5-7 years have radicalized my beliefs about the police.

And let’s be real - the right wing propaganda machine will twist and exaggerate whatever slogan is used on this problem.

If “Defund the police” moves citizens into pushing for “Reform the police” as the “moderate” option and the end result is the same then that’s a win.

Y’all constantly bitch about how the Democratic Party is bad at messaging and let’s the GQP define the conversation and then turn around and use the GQP bad faith criticism as rationale for why the Democrats should change or moderate their messaging.

My two suggestions with how the Democrats should handle this moving forward are one, be aggressive and own the message and don’t be cowards about owning it and two, highlight the issue of the rottenness of police unions.

I know that criticism of any union sounds scary to old school Dems but police unions are a whole other animal than traditional labor unions.

I agree with you 100%. Spot on. I like your suggestions of being more aggressive and owning the message. The problem I have with the Democrats is what you said, they say something like Defund the Police and do nothing to explain what they mean, letting people decide on their own, and then giving air to the Republicans to use it for their own benefit to piss people off and create fear and anger. This happens over and over. 

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14 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

We can officially end the thread now. With a vote of 99-0, the amendment to not defund the police has been approved. Cory Booker thanks Tommy Tubberville. Longer three minute version of Tubberville leadup available as well

 

Was that a joke or was he being super sarcastic? I almost thought that was SNL and still not sure this is real...

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1 minute ago, StassneyHorn said:

you know the answer to your question

I'm assuming parody. I'm hoping sarcastic parody because his energy would be weird if not, but the 99-0 vote makes me think not and actually seems like a good thing (bipartisanship at 100% seems rare and good these days). I guess if nobody else is confused then just ignore and I'll hang up and listen to pick up my answer via context clues and other posts since it doesn't sound like I have "dumb question amnesty" here from you.

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13 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I'm assuming parody. I'm hoping sarcastic parody because his energy would be weird if not, but the 99-0 vote makes me think not and actually seems like a good thing (bipartisanship at 100% seems rare and good these days). I guess if nobody else is confused then just ignore and I'll hang up and listen to pick up my answer via context clues and other posts since it doesn't sound like I have "dumb question amnesty" here from you.

For years, Republicans have disingenuously accused all Democrats of wanting to Defund the Police.  Tuberville just gave them all an opportunity to go on the record that the accusations are bullshit, which they unanimously took advantage of.  This is not complicated and I do not for one second believe that you do not understand this.

Edited by Chuckie Finster
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1 minute ago, Chuckie Finster said:

For years, Republicans have disingenuously accused all Democrats of wanting to Defund the Police.  Tuberville just gave them all an opportunity to go on the record that the accusations are bullshit, which they unanimously took advantage of.  This is not complicated and I do not for one second believe that you do not understand this.

I didn't grasp that; I guess I'll cop to admitting I'm not as smart as you seem to think I was, unfortunately. Now, if we can move past my limitations and move on to discussing it, it's super interesting.

Firstly, that Tuberville would do this. Do the political pundits think this was an intentional and purposeful ploy to reach across the aisle or get everyone singing from the same sheet of music? Or is the feeling that he is dumb and it was an unforced political error and the Dems dunked on it?

Either way, the end result is positive and this is great. You agree with that, right?

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4 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

For years, Republicans have disingenuously accused all Democrats of wanting to Defund the Police.  Tuberville just gave them all an opportunity to go on the record that the accusations are bullshit, which they unanimously took advantage of.  This is not complicated and I do not for one second believe that you do not understand this.

Josh Hawley also came out and enthusiastically endorsed Joe Biden's COPS program that.... does the opposite of defunding the police. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Chuckie Finster said:

For years, Republicans have disingenuously accused all Democrats of wanting to Defund the Police.  Tuberville just gave them all an opportunity to go on the record that the accusations are bullshit, which they unanimously took advantage of.  This is not complicated and I do not for one second believe that you do not understand this.

Things will make a lot more sense once you understand him better. It can be confusing at first because we're used to the duller people on the internet having trouble writing complete sentences. His prose is readable and communicates what he's trying to convey very well. So at first you don't recognize his deductive and logical limitations.

Odds are decent that he's the unemployable child of at least one English teacher.

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1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

Things will make a lot more sense once you understand him better. It can be confusing at first because we're used to the duller people on the internet having trouble writing complete sentences. His prose is readable and communicates what he's trying to convey very well. So at first you don't recognize his deductive and logical limitations.

Odds are decent that he's the unemployable child of at least one English teacher.

Father?

Joking aside, you are quite right about me, I'm not that intelligent and probably have a rather average and boring IQ (which, further to your point, I understand is a test that centers around logic skills, etc.).

That said, thanks for the defense, albeit damning, of my honest and good faith question here. Since I guess the other posters only replied to try and call out a "gotcha" that didn't exist, I'll pose the question to you:

Do the political pundits think this was an intentional and purposeful ploy to reach across the aisle or get everyone singing from the same sheet of music? Or is the feeling that he is dumb and it was an unforced political error and the Dems dunked on it?

Either way, the end result is positive and this is great. You agree with that, right?

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29 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Or is the feeling that he is dumb and it was an unforced political error and the Dems dunked on it?

That's the prevailing sentiment right now, yes

29 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Either way, the end result is positive and this is great. You agree with that, right?

I don't think so - backing cops unconditionally when they're being prosecuted and convicted for murdering people in the streets isn't exactly for and by the people. Cops get too much money and treat every interaction with the public as if it's life and death. They need non-LEO oversight and governance so that when they investigate themselves and find they did nothing wrong (and definitely didn't lie on a shitload of police reports), we the people have a means to call bullshit on them.

But sure I guess - HOORAY! Our senators all want to stop passing the "defund the police" hot potato. Whoopie.

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28 minutes ago, Captainant said:

That's the prevailing sentiment right now, yes

I don't think so - backing cops unconditionally when they're being prosecuted and convicted for murdering people in the streets isn't exactly for and by the people. Cops get too much money and treat every interaction with the public as if it's life and death. They need non-LEO oversight and governance so that when they investigate themselves and find they did nothing wrong (and definitely didn't lie on a shitload of police reports), we the people have a means to call bullshit on them.

But sure I guess - HOORAY! Our senators all want to stop passing the "defund the police" hot potato. Whoopie.

It's the first step to a solution. It's like with addiction recovery, the first step is to admit you have a problem. Here the first step is retiring the "Defund the Police" slogan as a political hot potato getting past the slogan because it was an impediment to progress, whether it be through distraction or confusion on what it means, etc.

Edited by DonkeyCigars
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2 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Here the first step is retiring the "Defund the Police" slogan as a political hot potato getting past the slogan because it was an impediment to progress, whether it be through distraction or confusion on what it means, etc.

Hooray, the flames that were fanned by trump and the GOP have finally dwindled! I'm sure it will never be used as a wedge issue again. 

Because none of the grievances that kicked off the "defund the police" debate have been addressed. So good job conservatives, you kept our oppressive police state intact. 

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27 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Hooray, the flames that were fanned by trump and the GOP have finally dwindled! I'm sure it will never be used as a wedge issue again. 

Because none of the grievances that kicked off the "defund the police" debate have been addressed. So good job conservatives, you kept our oppressive police state intact. 

I get your underlying point, but are you cannot at least take joy in the Dems dunking on Tommy T and in this case?

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53 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Here the first step is retiring the "Defund the Police" slogan as a political hot potato getting past the slogan because it was an impediment to progress, whether it be through distraction or confusion on what it means, etc.

A bunch of police-state-enabling Senators have no power to "retire" the slogan since it didn't come from them and is aimed AT them.

We should defund the police.

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Just now, bad_teammate said:

A bunch of police-state-enabling Senators have no power to "retire" the slogan since it didn't come from them and is aimed AT them.

We should defund the police.

Ah ha! But I think we are talking about two different problems, both named "Defund the Police"

One is a political problem, the one Captain and I have been talking about, which is where Dems are boxed in by the GQP with their talk tracks and billboards and commercials during elections. It's a problem of nuance-- witless voters who make up the mass of the voters on any said voting day (the mostly uninformed, soundbyte, vote once an election season, not locally voting or in tune) who can't be expected to spend time and energy unfurling subtext. The Dems get a win here. This should be celebrated, if you are a Dem, right?

The other problem is one where I sense Captain's frustration lie. The Dems/Politicians get a pointless "win" and an excuse to sweep this away and not be bothered by it, or any real effort and energy into what is inherently a very complex problem. They get to keep trodding down the path of least resistance, which is good for them, because most politicians in legacy D or R camps are not very good at solving complex problems.

The point I think you are making is that it is not the Senators place to say what "Defund the Police" means because it was something the streets came up with, but I think voters do see it this way and are confused.

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1 hour ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I get your underlying point, but are you cannot at least take joy in the Dems dunking on Tommy T and in this case?

This is the essence of empty, culture war politics. It serves no purpose but to steal time and energy and attention from actual issues. I mean yeah, it's funny that tubbs broke the GOPs current toy - but y'all are pretty gifted at finding something new to completely misrepresent and get outraged over (cough cough, CRT) to suck up all the oxygen. 

Edited by Captainant
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44 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

The Dems get a win here. This should be celebrated, if you are a Dem, right?

0.007% of swayable voters know anything about what just happened regarding this vote. It doesn't matter at all to anyone who isn't already on a team and just looking for ways to swipe at the other team.

Quote

The point I think you are making is that it is not the Senators place to say what "Defund the Police" means because it was something the streets came up with, but I think voters do see it this way and are confused.

Whether or not voters see it that way is immaterial to whether or not "Defund the Police" survives as a slogan.

If the Dems want to kill "Defund", they need to solve the problems a different way so that there is no reason for activists to say "Defund".

18 minutes ago, Captainant said:

This is the essence of empty, culture war politics. It serves no purpose but to steal time and energy and attention from actual issues. I mean yeah, it's funny that tubbs broke the GOPs current toy - but y'all are pretty gifted at finding something new to get outraged over to suck up all the oxygen. 

The bolded part is Democrats at large at this point. It's 90% of CR posting.

"LOL REPUBLICANS ARE HYPOCRITES  OWNED!" as grandma is evicted and beaten to death by a cop

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