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Posted
29 minutes ago, 'stache said:

The dems need to fight it out in primaries, vigorously, but then coalesce around whoever wins, because the worst democrat furthest from your views is still monumentally better than the average republican these days. Fucking Joe Manchin is an example, I probably disagree with his approach to most things, but he's never been maga, and that's probably good enough (also from WV nobody should ever expect a progressive dem, a dem/independent at all is a win).

Ya know, it's funny to see people write this and completely forget the 2016 primaries and election. 

And for having "never been maga" he's sure lent his time and effort to their cause more frequently than he did for the dems. He's exactly the "moderate white" that MLK warned us about impeding progress in his letter from him Birmingham cell 

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Posted

Fuckin' A, it's like the democratic party is the mid twenty-teens Longhorns. We're still with butterteeth handing out orange slices and cookies and wondering why we can't win a goddamn game while being scared to death of everything. We've still got years of wandering the desert until the fever breaks and the disease that Dodds and Plonsky let set in are washed away from the program as a whole. Just as Texas kept trading on past glory to stave of meaningful change and reforms, so does the Democratic party.

Or in contemporary terms, the current democratic leadership needs to fuckin' hit the bricks and let somebody else drive the ship. They're running shit like aggy, content to go 8-4 and never amount to a shit.

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Posted
2 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

He has very strong rhetorical skills which is why it was so fucking insane of the Harris campaign to put a muzzle on him.

He's also the only Democrat since the election of Barack Obama to absolutely take the piss out of the right-wing smear-o-sphere when called them weird. 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

They were doing their plan before him with the invention of the tea party and going after republicans and bringing in more of the party people they wanted.

I'm not picking on you specifically, but the left doesn't need to aggrandize the GOP and shouldn't try to mimic their more dysfunctional behaviors in order to win elections.  This requires some hope, but if the Dems can find a really good communicator that's cool it'll go a LONG way to revealing how fragile the GOP 2024 coalition was.  

@Bozo_Casanova has been beating this drum (and for the record and for @bolverk, I disagree with him somewhat on "it's the singer, not the song"), and it's been also getting discussed by all the of the lefty podcasters--throw out 2024, that was a self-own by Biden and the rest of the party and it's not going to teach helpful lessons next year or when the race heats up in 2027. 

Instead, what they/we need to acknowledge is that the way information is getting passed from elites to everyone else, from business to consumer, from neighbor to neighbor, etc., has had a revolutionary change in the last decade.  I'll give you an example--my 75 year dad asked me yesterday "Do you know what Reels are?  I've been watching those, they are so funny!"  He's not watching 60 Minutes, he's consuming media via the shit we mock as the domain of ignorant Gen Z.  

Whoever masters the new media environment is likelier than not to win elections.   Do that and pick a few policies that are broadly popular like David Shor recommends and see who's best at getting attention in a long primary season.  

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Posted
20 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Related to the Hogg thing: right now a small group of traditional Austin Democrats are very quietly feeling around for a “moderate” to primary Greg Casar. Somehow my name came up as a possible supporter or even challenger.
What I told them was that even though Greg Casar‘s ideology is not the model for what Democrats need nationally,  purging well liked incumbents who represent their district well in a misguided attempt to enforce some kind of hypothetical majoritarian ideological baseline is exactly what we don’t need to do.

If someone thinks they can do the job better than Casar, they should run. But I’m not going to participate as a donor or opponent in an attempt to take him down because he wins, and winning is job #1.

 

Casar is exactly the type of candidate the democrats need to rally behind. Oligarchs wearing a religious cloak will beat the decorum demanding corporatists coming and going and all day long on Sunday. The dems need to be a true working man’s party and the corporatists need to realize significant reforms are required or the entire house will collapse either under fascism or financial collapse (or both). You just can’t win trying to take it all. 

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Posted
23 minutes ago, troph said:

Casar is exactly the type of candidate the democrats need to rally behind. Oligarchs wearing a religious cloak will beat the decorum demanding corporatists coming and going and all day long on Sunday. The dems need to be a true working man’s party and the corporatists need to realize significant reforms are required or the entire house will collapse either under fascism or financial collapse (or both). You just can’t win trying to take it all. 

Well OK. I mean, that seems more like “the idea of Greg Casar” than the actual Greg Casar. But I do like him, and more importantly, he wins. 

Posted
47 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Fuckin' A, it's like the democratic party is the mid twenty-teens Longhorns. We're still with butterteeth handing out orange slices and cookies and wondering why we can't win a goddamn game while being scared to death of everything. We've still got years of wandering the desert until the fever breaks and the disease that Dodds and Plonsky let set in are washed away from the program as a whole. Just as Texas kept trading on past glory to stave of meaningful change and reforms, so does the Democratic party.

Or in contemporary terms, the current democratic leadership needs to fuckin' hit the bricks and let somebody else drive the ship. They're running shit like aggy, content to go 8-4 and never amount to a shit.

100% co-sign.

The leadership of the democratic party does not want to win. They want to make money while losing. They're too busy negotiating deals with jetpack DJs to care about the product on the field.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Well OK. I mean, that seems more like “the idea of Greg Casar” than the actual Greg Casar. But I do like him, and more importantly, he wins. 

To be fair, let's not exaggerate the political brilliance of Casar winning in a district that's 53.8% hispanic.  I know you like to lay the blame for enforcing the homeless camping ban at the feet of law enforcement, but it's undoubtedly true that he was way out in front of a permissiveness that was loudly rebuked by voters.  

Posted
26 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

To be fair, let's not exaggerate the political brilliance of Casar winning in a district that's 53.8% hispanic.  I know you like to lay the blame for enforcing the homeless camping ban at the feet of law enforcement, but it's undoubtedly true that he was way out in front of a permissiveness that was loudly rebuked by voters.  

I’m not sure I understand. Do you think Greg Casar is Hispanic?

Posted
2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I’m not sure I understand. Do you think Greg Casar is Hispanic?

I’m not sure I understand, although perhaps I’m missing a Strake Jesuit joke.    
 

He’s a member of the congressional Hispanic caucus, so he appears to think he’s Hispanic.  

Posted
29 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

To be fair, let's not exaggerate the political brilliance of Casar winning in a district that's 53.8% hispanic.  I know you like to lay the blame for enforcing the homeless camping ban at the feet of law enforcement, but it's undoubtedly true that he was way out in front of a permissiveness that was loudly rebuked by voters.  

My man there are homeless people camped in the parking lot of the police HQ. It’s hard to argue they are doing their best.

But, yes- absolutely Greg led the effort to rescind the ban. Which is kind of my point that was absolutely a social justice cause that was driven by affluent Democrats, who are very out of touch with the reality of chronic homelessness. And since the lives of working class people are more directly impacted by that reality, he missed the mark. 
But importantly, he emerged somewhat unscathed, an incredibly valuable skill!

Posted
1 hour ago, Firemans4Horn said:

Look what you did Elizabeth Warren

 

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Probably just a coincidence. Nothing shady going on here.

 

Posted
4 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

But importantly, he emerged somewhat unscathed, an incredibly valuable skill!

I wouldn't say entirely unscathed, apparently he's getting primaried if someone can meet your price 😉

Posted
1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Well OK. I mean, that seems more like “the idea of Greg Casar” than the actual Greg Casar. But I do like him, and more importantly, he wins. 

well he wins and the idea of him is what I think the party needs, so then why the fuck are they wanting to primary him?  competitive idiots the dems are.

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Posted
4 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

He has very strong rhetorical skills which is why it was so fucking insane of the Harris campaign to put a muzzle on him.

if she wasn't going to use him she shoulda picked Shapiro. 

Posted
1 hour ago, LCHorn said:

To be fair, let's not exaggerate the political brilliance of Casar winning in a district that's 53.8% hispanic.  I know you like to lay the blame for enforcing the homeless camping ban at the feet of law enforcement, but it's undoubtedly true that he was way out in front of a permissiveness that was loudly rebuked by voters.  

what I've heard him say the dems need to do is 100% on the mark though. push the extreme culture stuff to the side (don't be mean to people) but focus on working class issues. raise the SS threshold (remove it actually), increase access to Medicare (by lowering the age to 55), he had some child care stuff as well, and basically run full tilt as the working class party.  he has the AOC/Bernie oligarch/billionaire target speech down at least when I heard him talk.  that's EXACTLY what the Dems neeed, not decorum demanding corporatists. 

2 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

The Office I Am Dead Inside GIF

you can sideline him too, it's just a visual for the votes and Tim did a whole lot less than JS would have.

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Posted

A democrat who fails to protect the most marginalized constituent by treating them as expendable (trans people, climate activists) or worthy of punishment for perceived disloyalty (Latinos, Gen Z, Arabs) is a democrat who sends an uninspiring message to everyone else in their base.

When a democrat does something strong, applaud them. They need all the help they can get because otherwise their political instincts and the consultants they've been following have consistently led them astray, telling them it's "the groups" who have been costing them votes.

Posted
2 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

A democrat who fails to protect the most marginalized constituent by treating them as expendable (trans people, climate activists) or worthy of punishment for perceived disloyalty (Latinos, Gen Z, Arabs) is a democrat who sends an uninspiring message to everyone else in their base.

When a democrat does something strong, applaud them. They need all the help they can get because otherwise their political instincts and the consultants they've been following have consistently led them astray, telling them it's "the groups" who have been costing them votes.

to be clear what I heard from GC was not treat trans people as expendable but focus on working class issues (which will also help most trans people) and secondarily don't be mean to the marginalized and advance their causes as best you can within a broader tent knowing a working class voter might disagree with a 3 PhD professor of gender studies. Dems need both of those votes though.  GC actually said if you appeal enough to the working class they will forgive some of the culture stuff they might disagree with because the platform is still so much better for them. he's right.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, troph said:

to be clear what I heard from GC was not treat trans people as expendable but focus on working class issues (which will also help most trans people) and secondarily don't be mean to the marginalized and advance their causes as best you can within a broader tent knowing a working class voter might disagree with a 3 PhD professor of gender studies. Dems need both of those votes though.  GC actually said if you appeal enough to the working class they will forgive some of the culture stuff they might disagree with because the platform is still so much better for them. he's right.

My bad I should have been clearer. This wasn't about Casar at all. To my mind he's never treated any constituent class as expendable the way John Fetterman or Henry Cuellar would.

Posted
28 minutes ago, troph said:

well he wins and the idea of him is what I think the party needs, so then why the fuck are they wanting to primary him?  competitive idiots the dems are.

Petty beefs, basically

Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, troph said:

to be clear what I heard from GC was not treat trans people as expendable but focus on working class issues (which will also help most trans people) and secondarily don't be mean to the marginalized and advance their causes as best you can within a broader tent knowing a working class voter might disagree with a 3 PhD professor of gender studies. Dems need both of those votes though.  GC actually said if you appeal enough to the working class they will forgive some of the culture stuff they might disagree with because the platform is still so much better for them. he's right.

They’re going to get those votes regardless. You don’t have to pander to them and overall for campaigning trans are a net negative to democrats because the negative ads work for republicans. Democrats need to stop fighting for trans in women’s sports straight up but that’s a topic for another thread. 

Edited by BurntOrange&White
Posted
8 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Democrats need to stop fighting for trans in women’s sports straight up but that’s a topic for another thread. 

The only time I ever hear about this is when the right is bitching about it. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Red Five said:

The only time I ever hear about this is when the right is bitching about it. 

Ok fine, but I take issue with people who say we shouldn’t fight when they want laws to let them check kids’ genitals

“Just let us try and legislate these people out of existence. I’m sure your rights will be fine”

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Posted

Circling back to @Hank Kingsley's point about announcing now for '28, I've been thinking that one reason to NOT would be that it'd be a lot of time for the arrows to land and for voters to get fatigued.  

That said, there was an Atlantic article on 6/9 talking about how poorly measured so much of the Democratic campaigns outreach efforts have been, and the TL:DR on it is that what worked in 2016 appears to have really diminishing returns in 2018 and very little impact in 2024.  Dem campaign subcontractors and policy groups don't like to talk about this because it undermines their value when trying to solicit donations.  

At the end of the article, a source made the point that the GOP is far better at creating in between election engagement and that's helped neuter Dem campaign efforts (i.e., if you're a Rogen listener and you've heard from a number of GOP officials, or comedians mocking incumbent Biden, etc., over the past couple of years, a personalized snail mail letter or really good social media campaign in the 60 days prior to the election isn't having much impact).  

Another interesting finding was that door knocking might actually be improving your opponents chances, i.e., voters in high engagement races are already saturated with outreach and are displeased at being bothered in person.

Anyway, if you follow that logic, announcing now gives you the opportunity to build out your coalition more organically and follow the GOP playbook of making it more of a cultural (or for @troph and fellow Greg Casar lovers, economic) movement.  

 

Posted
50 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

Circling back to @Hank Kingsley's point about announcing now for '28, I've been thinking that one reason to NOT would be that it'd be a lot of time for the arrows to land and for voters to get fatigued.  

That said, there was an Atlantic article on 6/9 talking about how poorly measured so much of the Democratic campaigns outreach efforts have been, and the TL:DR on it is that what worked in 2016 appears to have really diminishing returns in 2018 and very little impact in 2024.  Dem campaign subcontractors and policy groups don't like to talk about this because it undermines their value when trying to solicit donations.  

At the end of the article, a source made the point that the GOP is far better at creating in between election engagement and that's helped neuter Dem campaign efforts (i.e., if you're a Rogen listener and you've heard from a number of GOP officials, or comedians mocking incumbent Biden, etc., over the past couple of years, a personalized snail mail letter or really good social media campaign in the 60 days prior to the election isn't having much impact).  

Another interesting finding was that door knocking might actually be improving your opponents chances, i.e., voters in high engagement races are already saturated with outreach and are displeased at being bothered in person.

Anyway, if you follow that logic, announcing now gives you the opportunity to build out your coalition more organically and follow the GOP playbook of making it more of a cultural (or for @troph and fellow Greg Casar lovers, economic) movement.  

 

To me a candidate announcing early would be good just to have an "official" opposition to Trump/MAGA. I think the last thing the Democrats need to show right now is patience. Trump is burning everything down at an alarming rate. There has to be a sense of urgency. Maybe there's a better play, I don't what it is. 

 

Posted

I’d hardly call myself a GC lover but he struck a chord in the way Bernie and AOC have. Most other Dems suck donkey ass, wait elephant ass, and are corporatists through and through. Give us any politician that truly runs on a people first platform and I’m in. 

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