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Posted
On 6/13/2025 at 12:31 PM, bolverk said:

By my reading, what's happened is that during the 1990s and following the Reagan Revolution, the mainstream of both parties more or less reached a consensus on neoliberal economic issues, e.g., free trade. There were, of course, differences on taxation, with the GOP firm believers in supply-side shit but moderate Dems not being too far off. Both were wrong on this, of course, as the benefits didn't "trickle down" to the working class, which now felt abandoned by the Party of Labor.

To separate themselves from the Democrats, the GOP began to fully embrace all the "culture war" shit, demonizing immigrants, gays, minority groups, the "coastal elite," and Murphy Brown wanting a kid, with Pat Buchanan and Rush Limbaugh leading the charge, slowly winning over Labor who felt threatened by all three. This, in turn, led to the Democratic Party basically becoming a loose coalition of the downtrodden trying to keep their shit together by watching each others' backs.

So, yeah, you've been correct in your thesis all this time about Dems needing to win back labor. And since Obama, the progressive branch has been proposing all sorts of economic reforms, but keep getting accused of being Marxists, a message that Republicans and moderate Dems have both used to gain/retain power in primary and general elections alike. Meanwhile, progressives keep getting pulled into the sexy culture wars by trying to protect all these out-groups from personal attacks.

What's the solution, then, in your opinion?

  1. Abandon the disfavored in the culture wars and just be neoliberal moderates, hoping to win back Labor (a bloc that now consistently votes against their economic interests in elections?
  2. Go full-force Far-Left, waging a war on both billionaires and the culture war-supporting evangelicals?
  3. Just be the Party of Labor with progressive economic/fiscal policies only, while ignoring human rights and civil liberties altogether?

this was a great post @bolverk

now, in light of what happened yesterday, do you have any edits you would make or additions?

Posted
On 6/13/2025 at 12:32 PM, chainsaw said:

I disagree with "moderate." There is no middle anymore. Pick a side and be strong. Look to Pritzker. Look to Walz. If you believe in nothing, sit the fuck down. If you aren't willing to fight for what's right, sit the fuck down.

Don't overthink this. Keep running the plays that net you the most yardage and keep doing it until and ONLY UNTIL the other side finds a way to stop it.

except the dems have been running the greg davis 3rd and 5

Posted
On 6/13/2025 at 1:57 PM, 'stache said:

They unify over hatred of browns and gays. What do you propose the democrats unify around?

immigrants, the social safety net (veterans, medicaid, medicare), labor, small business?

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Posted
13 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

this was a great post @bolverk

now, in light of what happened yesterday, do you have any edits you would make or additions?

Not sure what your driving at about needing edits. I suppose the options for how to move forward aren't limited solely to the three I mentioned, but the overall off-the-cuff historical narrative is more or less correct, I think.

Posted
5 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

immigrants, the social safety net (veterans, medicaid, medicare), labor, small business?

and do all that while working towards reducing the wealth inequality that is being widened at the expense of all those things you listed.  

 

Posted
On 6/13/2025 at 2:27 PM, LCHorn said:

I'm not picking on you specifically, but the left doesn't need to aggrandize the GOP and shouldn't try to mimic their more dysfunctional behaviors in order to win elections.  This requires some hope, but if the Dems can find a really good communicator that's cool it'll go a LONG way to revealing how fragile the GOP 2024 coalition was.  

--throw out 2024, that was a self-own by Biden and the rest of the party and it's not going to teach helpful lessons next year or when the race heats up in 2027. 

Instead, what they/we need to acknowledge is that the way information is getting passed from elites to everyone else, from business to consumer, from neighbor to neighbor, etc., has had a revolutionary change in the last decade.

Whoever masters the new media environment is likelier than not to win elections.   Do that and pick a few policies that are broadly popular like David Shor recommends and see who's best at getting attention in a long primary season.  

put all of this on top of yesterday's engine and we win

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Posted
3 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

and do all that while working towards reducing the wealth inequality that is being widened at the expense of all those things you listed. 

taking on the billionaires is only possible with a 2/3rds majority in both houses and 3/4ths of the state legislatures to pass constitutional amendments

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Posted
On 6/13/2025 at 2:18 PM, Captainant said:

Fuckin' A, it's like the democratic party is the mid twenty-teens Longhorns. We're still with butterteeth handing out orange slices and cookies and wondering why we can't win a goddamn game while being scared to death of everything. We've still got years of wandering the desert until the fever breaks and the disease that Dodds and Plonsky let set in are washed away from the program as a whole. Just as Texas kept trading on past glory to stave of meaningful change and reforms, so does the Democratic party.

Or in contemporary terms, the current democratic leadership needs to fuckin' hit the bricks and let somebody else drive the ship. They're running shit like aggy, content to go 8-4 and never amount to a shit.

they are not even up to aggy-level deck-stacking and reality manipulation

the dems have fallen to d2 playing 3 OOC p5 games to pay for their salaries

Posted
10 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

how much dem party messaging was directed towards character attacks on vance?   maybe the dems should have met the walz attacks with an equal and proportionate response

Dems made three big mistakes with Tim Walz

1) they overplayed the word “weird,” because they didn’t understand that there was nothing special about it- the magic was just the refreshing sound of plain, unrehearsed speaking in politics.

2) they apologized for his misstatements and got on the back foot about his rank at retirement. They should have attacked and shamed the media whenever they asked about it.

3) He didn’t light up JD Vance the way Tim Ryan did. 

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Posted
Dems made three big mistakes with Tim Walz
1) they overplayed the word “weird,” because they didn’t understand that there was nothing special about it- the magic was just the refreshing sound of plain, unrehearsed speaking in politics.
2) they apologized for his misstatements and got on the back foot about his rank at retirement. They should have attacked and shamed the media whenever they asked about it.
3) He didn’t light up JD Vance the way Tim Ryan did. 

Re: point 1. Exactly. It then immediately turned into an orchestrated thing, which made it dumb. Maybe they should have shifted to “evil”.
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Posted
51 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Dems made three big mistakes with Tim Walz

1) they overplayed the word “weird,” because they didn’t understand that there was nothing special about it- the magic was just the refreshing sound of plain, unrehearsed speaking in politics.

2) they apologized for his misstatements and got on the back foot about his rank at retirement. They should have attacked and shamed the media whenever they asked about it.

3) He didn’t light up JD Vance the way Tim Ryan did. 

 

8 minutes ago, Red Five said:


Re: point 1. Exactly. It then immediately turned into an orchestrated thing, which made it dumb. Maybe they should have shifted to “evil”.

I don't know if they overplayed it or just didn't know how to play it correctly. 

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Posted (edited)

If democrats were smart they'd be blasting republicans for the Minnesota stuff and repeatedly calling them the party of political violence and using the tragedy just like republicans will find the one brown illegal who committed a crime as political pawn.

Edited by BurntOrange&White
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Posted
31 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

If democrats were smart they'd be blasting republicans for the Minnesota stuff and repeatedly calling them the party of political violence and using the tragedy just like republicans will find the one brown illegal who committed a crime as political pawn.

Yes, this would be a good idea. I’d add some shaming of the multiple GOP senators who trolled on Twitter pretending the murderer was a leftist.

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Posted
7 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

Obviously, we all know that shame left the GOP some time ago.

 

There’s value in pointing out for those who don’t pay much attention just how incredibly shameless the GOP is today. 

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Posted
53 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

If democrats were smart they'd be blasting republicans for the Minnesota stuff and repeatedly calling them the party of political violence and using the tragedy just like republicans will find the one brown illegal who committed a crime as political pawn.

 

21 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Yes, this would be a good idea. I’d add some shaming of the multiple GOP senators who trolled on Twitter pretending the murderer was a leftist.

Both of these.

Blame the GQP for the violence they foment.  Non-stop.  They are a party of violent murderers.  Call them that. 

Wait, what's that you say?  That's as unfair as demonizing all 65 million hispanics in the US as criminals (this admin has done just that)?  ABSOLUTELY.  THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT.  RUN THE PLAY AGAINST THEM.

Posted
4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

Both of these.

Blame the GQP for the violence they foment.  Non-stop.  They are a party of violent murderers.  Call them that. 

Wait, what's that you say?  That's as unfair as demonizing all 65 million hispanics in the US as criminals (this admin has done just that)?  ABSOLUTELY.  THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT.  RUN THE PLAY AGAINST THEM.

Sad part is they won't do it 

Posted
26 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

If Democrats clean up in the mid-terms, it will only reinforce the institutional rot at the heart of the party.

 

I was saying that they aren't right that this is "normal." Regardless of whether or not the Democrats make any advances in the midterms, we are not going back to normal any time soon. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Every mistake and misstep matters when the party itself is a clusterfuck.

It's a clusterfuck because people, including voters on the left, demand perfection from candidates. The other side gets away with verbal diarrhea and hate. Meanwhile, the left is debating whether the word "weird" was too much or too little. I don't understand why we can't just come together and accept that the left of center today is a broad spectrum, we fight it out in primaries, than coalesce around whoever wins that process. 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

It's a clusterfuck because people, including voters on the left, demand perfection from candidates. The other side gets away with verbal diarrhea and hate. Meanwhile, the left is debating whether the word "weird" was too much or too little. I don't understand why we can't just come together and accept that the left of center today is a broad spectrum, we fight it out in primaries, than coalesce around whoever wins that process. 

Another thing they need to do is quit being so fucking quick to resign when it comes to a controversy or when a republican comes into power over their department. That's literally giving up positions that will be filled by republicans or give a republican a potential seat. Meanwhile republicans will wait until they absolutely cannot withstand the pressure anymore, see Gaetz nomination as an example.

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Posted
25 minutes ago, safe sex said:

I was saying that they aren't right that this is "normal." Regardless of whether or not the Democrats make any advances in the midterms, we are not going back to normal any time soon. 

Agreed. We’re closer to a deployment of active duty troops on American soil and a suspension of habeas corpus than we are to normal. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

If democrats were smart they'd be blasting republicans for the Minnesota stuff and repeatedly calling them the party of political violence and using the tragedy just like republicans will find the one brown illegal who committed a crime as political pawn.

But Steve Scalise!

Posted
Agreed. We’re closer to a deployment of active duty troops on American soil and a suspension of habeas corpus than we are to normal. 

“Habeas Corpus is a right President Trump has to do whatever the fuck he wants.” - Our Secretary of Homeland Security.
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Posted

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5359468-new-democrats-party-leadership-survey/

62 percent of Democrats agree party leadership should be replaced: Survey

Quote

Thursday’s Reuters/Ipsos survey featuring self-identified Democratic respondents found that about 62 percent backed the idea that party leadership should be replaced, while 24 percent did not support the idea, and 14 percent did not provide a response or did not know.

Chuck Schumer, Hakeem Jeffries

rondae hollis-jefferson page GIF

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