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Active shooter thread


Hugo Stiglitz

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4 hours ago, Hookah Horns said:

I empathize with how you feel. But I'm curious about the ho lee fuc thing. Are you referring to people calling you that or otherwise using it with/in regard to you because of your ethnicity - or do you find it offensive in general?

I ask because it's something I sometimes type instead of holy fuck (because I found the local news prank that popularized it hilarious). It didn't occur to me that it's offensive to asians in the abstract. To me, it's just one of many childishly amusing name puns. Like Jack Mehoff or Mike Hunt. 

If so, I'll have to retire it. 

It is offensive. Characters like Long Duck Dong have made it seem like the offensive stereotype is just "good fun", but it really isn't. We need to stop normalizing that behavior. It is bullying and a way to make others feel superior.  It is no more funny than the jack ass yelling "four-eyes." We've done away with that phrase, leaving it to be used only in TV and movies by characters the audience is supposed to hate.  The stupid Asian jokes deserve the same treatment. 

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16 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Because he clearly didn’t just “have a bad day”, he obviously thought and planned this out for some time. It’d be like if someone said the 9/11 hijackers were just having a bad day and snapped. It’s absolutely excusing/downplaying the act. 

Yeah, that is my inclination as well but with a dash of understanding that the line of communication between perpetrator>>interegation>>comm staff>>media sometimes makes it harder to suss out what is direct quote and who said what.

It minimizes the gender/race/class status of the victims.

Granted, someone of his age and thought process wasn't likely going to run for city council and go after the ordinances or landlords/property owners, he went directly for the face to face interaction in order to punish/stop those whom he believed made him feel bad about himself. He might want to look a little closer to home.

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32 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Because he clearly didn’t just “have a bad day”, he obviously thought and planned this out for some time. It’d be like if someone said the 9/11 hijackers were just having a bad day and snapped. It’s absolutely excusing/downplaying the act. 

And part of what it makes it problematic is the juxtaposition between this "bad day" and how cops describe the victims of police brutality, particularly the black ones. Benefit of the doubt is selectively applied and for blatantly obvious reasons. 

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23 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

It is offensive. Characters like Long Duck Dong have made it seem like the offensive stereotype is just "good fun", but it really isn't. We need to stop normalizing that behavior. It is bullying and a way to make others feel superior.  It is no more funny than the jack ass yelling "four-eyes." We've done away with that phrase, leaving it to be used only in TV and movies by characters the audience is supposed to hate.  The stupid Asian jokes deserve the same treatment. 

My dad said “orientals” the other day. Wife and I  just stared at each other. 

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5 hours ago, Hookah Horns said:

I empathize with how you feel. But I'm curious about the ho lee fuc thing. Are you referring to people calling you that or otherwise using it with/in regard to you because of your ethnicity - or do you find it offensive in general?

I ask because it's something I sometimes type instead of holy fuck (because I found the local news prank that popularized it hilarious). It didn't occur to me that it's offensive to asians in the abstract. To me, it's just one of many childishly amusing name puns. Like Jack Mehoff or Mike Hunt. 

If so, I'll have to retire it. 

 

1 hour ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

If an american plane crashed and any news station from Asia or any where in the world really displayed a graphic with quality puns like that making fun of American names I would be trying to convince the wife of the value in flying to wherever they are from just to high five them. Sometimes a good joke is a good joke.

That said, I can empathize with you and see how certain elements in society would use that as fuel to bully folks who are different from them. It's unfortunate that we can't all agree to make jokes at each others expense only in the name of good sport instead of it being used as a cover for being racist.

I thought it was funny at first too, seriously. Just to clarify these are my sentiments and no it’s not about people calling me this. 

To share with y’all, how it also turned from “haha” to “hmm....’ for me. Was the fact that it wasn’t some funny prank that was perfect for the moment. Because if I recall correctly and I was living in the Bay Area at the time. This was from a crash of a Korean Air plane. So some person at a local SF news station thought it would be funny to label the Korean pilots or victims (can’t remember the exact details) with these punny names.

And that’s when it went from funny the first 100 times to just cringey for me at this point. 

 

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10 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Pretty good thread, not too long, in which Michael Harriot has a response to Glenn Greenwald's just asking questions routine:

Click on the tweet to scroll through his dozen tweet thread reply. It's pretty informative.

Love his Twitter threads/take downs. 

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10 hours ago, gmr548 said:


The vast majority of murders occur when the killer and victim know each other. I guarantee very few of those murders, if any, were premeditated attacks on randoms based on race and/or gender. I really hope you’re somehow ignorant to that, because this is just a ridiculous take otherwise.

I think what he said has a ton of truth to it and acknowledge what you said as being completely true. I don’t understand how what you said refutes what he said. Can you connect the dots for me, bc to my way of thinking both things can be true (people looking for prepackaged stories to be preen on social media about- almost all homicides in this country involving personal problems not having anything to do with race/gender/orientation etc)? 

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I think what he said has a ton of truth to it and acknowledge what you said as being completely true. I don’t understand how what you said refutes what he said. Can you connect the dots for me, bc to my way of thinking both things can be true (people looking for prepackaged stories to be preen on social media about- almost all homicides in this country involving personal problems not having anything to do with race/gender/orientation etc)? 

His take boils down to “it’s silly/disingenuous to get worked up about this or for it to be a major news site because we don’t have the same reaction to hundreds of murders a year.”

My response was that the vast majority of those murders are fundamentally different events than the examples he cited as people overreacting to or using to virtue signal - this event, cops shooting unarmed blank people, etc. It’s shocking national news when a guy targets and kills eight random asian women precisely because that is so different and more rare than a vengeful boyfriend or a drug deal gone bad or whatever, which is how the vast majority of murders happen. He likely knows this but chose to post that nonsense anyway.
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My dad said “orientals” the other day. Wife and I  just stared at each other. 

Is that a slur? I know it is out of fashion but I did not think it was problematic.

Asian seemed too generic to me since it includes Russians, India, Japan, Koreas. Etc.
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15 minutes ago, Nivek said:


Is that a slur? I know it is out of fashion but I did not think it was problematic.

Asian seemed too generic to me since it includes Russians, India, Japan, Koreas. Etc.

Yeah it is at least considered tacky. I don’t think it’s from a hatefulness perspective but a lack of accuracy. 
was told when I asked “oriental is a rug dude, not a class of people”. 
 

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3 hours ago, speed817 said:

Did people make fun of your name when you were growing up?  I'm lucky that I was born in Texas and my parents gave me an American first name after seeing my older siblings being made fun of at school.  I always got asked was 'what's your real name?', along with the stupid puns with my last name.  Even in 2021, many people still can't pronounce 'Nguyen'.

It comes down to respect.  There might be someone named "Ho Lee Fuc" or whatever pun.  I grew up with a guy named Long Dich Vu, which is a name that is passed down in his family, and he can't even use it proudly and had to change his name because of all the ridicule. 

I remember when the first Vietnamese kid showed up at my catholic elementary school -- was 77 or 78, last name was Nguyen, of course.  I couldn't figure out how to pronounce it at all.  Wasn't until years later when someone with that name used the "dude, all I do is (n)win, baby!" trope that it clicked for me.  Embarrassed that it took me that long (especially because I have a difficult last name to pronounce myself).

Oh, and I went to school with a guy whose name was essentially pronounced as "Long Wang."  He went by "John."  Me?  I'd have kept the original, because hey, my name means I have a big dick.  Which reminds me of the bit from Kentucky Fried Movie that had the same name in it:

Quote

Game Show Announcer : Guard number one is a senior on Klahn's mountain, and aspires to be a research chemist. Welcome, please, Hung Well! Guard number two is a real skating buff. A warm welcome for Long Wang! Traveling comes naturally to guard number three, as he's a licensed airplane pilot. Welcome, please, Enormous Genitals!

Man....the shit that was said and done in movies in the 70s and 80s.

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7 hours ago, Hookah Horns said:

With all due respect to Lobo's theory that this guy's just trying to join the long line of mass murderers who skate on the sex addiction defense, my early read is that racial animus wasn't the motivating factor here, and that this is about evangelical shitheadery run amok once again. 

The other two thorny issues involved are guns/gun lust and the ubiquity of these asian rub and tugs and the sex trafficking undergirding them. 

Why do you think there's only one "motivating factor" or that to the extent there was "sex addiction" that at all negates the racism?  Regardless of whether this guy was an incel, sexually frustrated, etc., he chose to target Asian women for his killing spree.   And evangelical shitheadery may have also contributed, both to his fucked up views of women and also fucked up views on race.

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Did people make fun of your name when you were growing up?  I'm lucky that I was born in Texas and my parents gave me an American first name after seeing my older siblings being made fun of at school.  I always got asked was 'what's your real name?', along with the stupid puns with my last name.  Even in 2021, many people still can't pronounce 'Nguyen'.
It comes down to respect.  There might be someone named "Ho Lee Fuc" or whatever pun.  I grew up with a guy named Long Dich Vu, which is a name that is passed down in his family, and he can't even use it proudly and had to change his name because of all the ridicule. 

1) the spelling doesn’t match the phonetic spelling so getting upset by that is a bit silly, but I can imagine it would be frustrating. Hell the guys I know named Ankur had an easier time of it, but it was never really right. I pronounce it as “Wynn.” I have a V in my name and native Spanish speakers fuck it up.

2) Yes. Many people get teased with their name. John refers to a toilet, Michael was Michelle’, Eugene was “too bad”, etc. I knew a guy named Adolphus and no he wasn’t foreign or old. The name Dick/Richard is not nearly in use as much as it had been.

3) I would own that name. Dick Chopp I believe is in the vasectomy business. Dick Swett for Congress! Elect Mike Hunt!
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2 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Why do you think there's only one "motivating factor" or that to the extent there was "sex addiction" that at all negates the racism?  Regardless of whether this guy was an incel, sexually frustrated, etc., he chose to target Asian women for his killing spree.   And evangelical shitheadery may have also contributed, both to his fucked up views of women and also fucked up views on race.

Almost certainly this -- it's a toxic stew.  When you layer in the western tendency to hyper-sexualize asian women (to objectify them as sex objects only), the puzzle pieces sure do seem to fit together.  He didn't target women.  He targeted Asian women.  And only Asian women.  If he'd gone to just one place, maybe it just happened to work that way.  But he went to three.  And targeted only Asian women...at all three. 

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Why do you think there's only one "motivating factor" or that to the extent there was "sex addiction" that at all negates the racism?  Regardless of whether this guy was an incel, sexually frustrated, etc., he chose to target Asian women for his killing spree.   And evangelical shitheadery may have also contributed, both to his fucked up views of women and also fucked up views on race.

I thought in one place he shot 2 whites, 1 hispanic, and 2 asians. It seems that he didn’t seem to have a problem attempting to kill anyone really.
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Ho Lee Fuk/Sum Ting Wong used to be funny to me, but got way too overused. I don’t think they’re funny at all anymore just because of how unoriginal they’ve become. I can easily see how an Asian person would find it twice as annoying as I do. 

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6 minutes ago, Nivek said:


1) the spelling doesn’t match the phonetic spelling so getting upset by that is a bit silly, but I can imagine it would be frustrating. Hell the guys I know named Ankur had an easier time of it, but it was never really right. I pronounce it as “Wynn.” I have a V in my name and native Spanish speakers fuck it up.

2) Yes. Many people get teased with their name. John refers to a toilet, Michael was Michelle’, Eugene was “too bad”, etc. I knew a guy named Adolphus and no he wasn’t foreign or old. The name Dick/Richard is not nearly in use as much as it had been.

3) I would own that name. Dick Chopp I believe is in the vasectomy business. Dick Swett for Congress! Elect Mike Hunt!

Silly at first, probably.  I can forgive someone's ignorance at first.  But once you've corrected somebody, you would hope they would catch on.  When they purposely keep mispronouncing it, then it is a problem.  When I took my high school health class my senior year with one of the football coaches, he purposely would mispronounce my last name through the entire semester.  And it wasn't like I was the only Nguyen who had ever been at Arlington Lamar.  I didn't report it at them time because I knew I would be onto bigger and better things in ATX in a few months.  But if that shit happened to my kids today, something is going to happen....

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3 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

If an american plane crashed and any news station from Asia or any where in the world really displayed a graphic with quality puns like that making fun of American names I would be trying to convince the wife of the value in flying to wherever they are from just to high five them. Sometimes a good joke is a good joke.

That said, I can empathize with you and see how certain elements in society would use that as fuel to bully folks who are different from them. It's unfortunate that we can't all agree to make jokes at each others expense only in the name of good sport instead of it being used as a cover for being racist.

My sense of humor is as juvenile as anyone's, but those weren't quality puns or even good jokes.  If someone posted that on facebook, we'd all think he was just an immature asshole.  What made that legendary was having someone read it on TV.

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1 hour ago, YChang said:

 

I thought it was funny at first too, seriously. Just to clarify these are my sentiments and no it’s not about people calling me this. 

To share with y’all, how it also turned from “haha” to “hmm....’ for me. Was the fact that it wasn’t some funny prank that was perfect for the moment. Because if I recall correctly and I was living in the Bay Area at the time. This was from a crash of a Korean Air plane. So some person at a local SF news station thought it would be funny to label the Korean pilots or victims (can’t remember the exact details) with these punny names.

And that’s when it went from funny the first 100 times to just cringey for me at this point. 

 

The humor in my opinion came 100% from the idiot news anchors reading those names on the air. I never thought the puns were making fun of asians per se, although I can see why you might take it that way. 

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28 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Why do you think there's only one "motivating factor" or that to the extent there was "sex addiction" that at all negates the racism?  Regardless of whether this guy was an incel, sexually frustrated, etc., he chose to target Asian women for his killing spree.   And evangelical shitheadery may have also contributed, both to his fucked up views of women and also fucked up views on race.

I meant to write "primary motivating factor" tbh. I definitely wouldn't rule out this guy being racist. But my hunch is that the same result occurs if the spa girls were of different races. 

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3 hours ago, Helobious said:

Because he clearly didn’t just “have a bad day”, he obviously thought and planned this out for some time. It’d be like if someone said the 9/11 hijackers were just having a bad day and snapped. It’s absolutely excusing/downplaying the act. 

It’s like saying that the shooter is the real victim here and we should have sympathy for the poor guy. 

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1 hour ago, YChang said:

So some person at a local SF news station thought it would be funny to label the Korean pilots or victims (can’t remember the exact details) with these punny names.

And that’s when it went from funny the first 100 times to just cringey for me at this point. 

Same. Would have been a bit funny if it wasn’t during a tragedy. The fact the dumbasses read it on air was funnier than the names. Brought Ron Burgandy to life. 

30 minutes ago, Nivek said:

I thought in one place he shot 2 whites, 1 hispanic, and 2 asians. It seems that he didn’t seem to have a problem attempting to kill anyone really.

That’s last I read too. And while I’m certain he was targeting Asians, I’m also certain posters here will continue to gloss over that and the final headcount will all be Asians. 

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27 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

That’s last I read too. And while I’m certain he was targeting Asians, I’m also certain posters here will continue to gloss over that and the final headcount will all be Asians. 

Well if he was indiscriminate of race he would have picked a more public place. I imagine there's a Walmart within an 8 iron of each of those spas. But he didn't pick a public place because he wasn't interested in a huge body count. He was interested in a particular type of body count. Asians.

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5 minutes ago, Genco said:

Well if he was indiscriminate of race he would have picked a more public place. I imagine there's a Walmart within an 8 iron of each of those spas. But he didn't pick a public place because he wasn't interested in a huge body count. He was interested in a particular type of body count. Asians.

Not disagreeing with you. Doesn’t change the fact that the number will be misquoted over and over. 

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You guys look dumb debating this. Is it super far-fetched to think that the shooter told himself “I’m going to these places because I know they’ll mostly have Asians, but I’m shooting any fucker I see in there”. Race could be a motivating factor without all his victims being one race. The El Paso shooter killed a couple of white people, it doesn’t mean he wasn’t there to kil hispanics. 

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1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

Same. Would have been a bit funny if it wasn’t during a tragedy. The fact the dumbasses read it on air was funnier than the names. Brought Ron Burgandy to life. 

That’s last I read too. And while I’m certain he was targeting Asians, I’m also certain posters here will continue to gloss over that and the final headcount will all be Asians. 

I take it you mean that posters here will think only Asians were killed? What posters do you think will believe that?

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I'm wary of the sticklers for detail in situations like this. Facts are always important but it just feels like there's a "we're all victims of the same hate crime" shared sacrifice tone in the response. All lives matter type of bullshit that distracts from problem.

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17 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Well, because facts are always important, for one.   

You're complaining about something that may hypothetically happen by someone, somewhere. And that something doesn't change the big picture view of what this sick fuck did one iota. Your point is stupid and you are stupid for bringing it up. It is just bullshit deflection and self-victimization. Anything so that you can say: see, those folks aren't really righteous. Shut the fuck up Donny. 

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20 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I take it you mean that posters here will think only Asians were killed? What posters do you think will believe that?

There’s posts upthread that reference the incorrect number. So those folks, for one. 
 

13 minutes ago, Genco said:

I'm wary of the sticklers for detail in situations like this. Facts are always important but it just feels like there's a "we're all victims of the same hate crime" shared sacrifice tone in the response. All lives matter type of bullshit that distracts from problem.

I understand that.  I think there’s a 99% chance this was race related, and 1% it was his fucked up religious situation with some race mixed in.     
 

14 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

You're complaining about something that may hypothetically happen by someone, somewhere.

No. It’s already been in this thread.  So fuck you.  
 

It’s important because if those two white ladies happened to be black, fucks like you would be the first to phrase it correctly. 6 Asian and 2 AAs murdered in attack on POC.   

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1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

There’s posts upthread that reference the incorrect number. So those folks, for one. 
 

I understand that.  I think there’s a 99% chance this was race related, and 1% it was his fucked up religious situation with some race mixed in.     
 

No. It’s already been in this thread.  So fuck you.  
 

It’s important because if those two white ladies happened to be black, fucks like you would be the first to phrase it correctly. 6 Asian and 2 AAs murdered in attack on POC.   

Then correct those posters rather than make vague insinuations that certain people will ignore the truth for some conspiratorial reason known only to you. You're desperately trying to grab some moral high ground, not because the facts actually matter to you, but because you want to broad brush everyone else as having a mysterious and evil, "liberal" agenda. I deny you that hill. Now go sit in the corner and pout like the poor victimized conservative you want us to believe you are. 

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5 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Then correct those posters rather than make vague insinuations that certain people will ignore the truth for some conspiratorial reason known only to you. You're desperately trying to grab some moral high ground, not because the facts actually matter to you, but because you want to broad brush everyone else as having a mysterious and evil, "liberal" agenda. I deny you that hill. Now go sit in the corner and pout like the poor victimized conservative you want us to believe you are. 

I love seeing right wingers try to "shoot the moon" on message boards.

"Hey, here's an idea! I'll just insinuate that everyone is in deep denial of something obvious right in front of their noses. Maybe if I don't address any of them in particular, and just confine my prediction to a reply to a fellow sympathizer, nobody will challenge me. And if they don't challenge me, it'll look to any bystander like I successfully demonstrated that this is an echo chamber right in front of said echo chamber!"

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Just now, Dahobbs said:

Irony, you don't recognize it. 

See this is where you have to double down on stupid.  I don’t gaf about this murdering asshole.  I’m just curious why the other 3 people that he murdered and attempted to, don’t matter to you.  Some of the people he killed seem to matter, his color (and politics) seem to matter, but those other 3, let’s not even talk about it. Fuck outta here with that bullshit.   I can understand on the “Asians fear recent uptick in racism thread”, but this is a catch all.  So keep justifying why 33% of the people be shot aren’t even being considered.  

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8 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

You aren’t going to deny me a fucking thing. Keep on setting the narrative that is important to you.  

 

4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Irony, you don't recognize it. 

 

Just now, fattyflattie said:

See this is where you have to double down on stupid.  I don’t gaf about this murdering asshole.  I’m just curious why the other 3 people that he murdered and attempted to, don’t matter to you.  Some of the people he killed seem to matter, his color (and politics) seem to matter, but those other 3, let’s not even talk about it. Fuck outta here with that bullshit.   I can understand on the “Asians fear recent uptick in racism thread”, but this is a catch all.  So keep justifying why 33% of the people be shot aren’t even being considered.  

incredible series of posts. 

complete lack of self-awareness.

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24 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

See this is where you have to double down on stupid.  I don’t gaf about this murdering asshole.  I’m just curious why the other 3 people that he murdered and attempted to, don’t matter to you.  Some of the people he killed seem to matter, his color (and politics) seem to matter, but those other 3, let’s not even talk about it. Fuck outta here with that bullshit.   I can understand on the “Asians fear recent uptick in racism thread”, but this is a catch all.  So keep justifying why 33% of the people be shot aren’t even being considered.  

Articulate to me your theory on how those other people aren't being considered as society pursues justice against the alleged murder. Where have I, anyone on this thread, or really anyone on the entire fucking planet, save the murder, said those people don't matter? This is the same bullshit deflection as "all lives matter" to prevent any serious discussion of racism. Just because I participate in breast cancer awareness, doesn't mean that I think people with prostate cancer should get fucked. And just because we as a society may focus on the obvious targets of this heinous act, the Asian businesses and Asian employees that work there, doesn't mean that we don't care about the other individuals harmed along the way.  

But, as I said previously, continue to pout about how victimized YOU are. And we'll continue to laugh at your dunce cap. 

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Here is my hot take on this awful shit.

It was pretty cringey when the deputy said the neck beard “had a bad day.”

But people need to cool their jets over the written statement which clearly said: “This is what the suspect told us when we questioned him about why he did this.”
 

The cops never made a value judgment or editorialized.  They passed along exactly what the dude told them. It’s fine to say the neck beard is a racist shithead, but don’t flip out at the cops for writing down what he told them. That’s kind of their job.

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1 minute ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Here is my hot take on this awful shit.

It was pretty cringey when the deputy said the neck beard “had a bad day.”

But people need to cool their jets over the written statement which clearly said: “This is what the suspect told us when we questioned him about why he did this.”
 

The cops never made a value judgment or editorialized.  They passed along exactly what the dude told them. It’s fine to say the neck beard is a racist shithead, but don’t flip out at the cops for writing down what he told them. That’s kind of their job.

Yeah that’s fine. But that shirt tho...

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