Defund the IRS

[MeerkatBong 115]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Wait, I'm supposed to report cash payments?  WTF?  Why didn't someone tell me I had to report all kinds of income?  I thought Venmo was same as cash?

Oh, it is?

The point is that now, ostensibly, there are hounds who are going to ensure that you pay and report that petty cash payment so the government can get it's net $28 proceeds. Resources and money that could be going instead to harassing the wealthy. 

Congrats Middle Class-- we played ourselves.

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by MeerkatBong

[jimmyjazz 45426]

 

2 minutes ago, MeerkatBong said:

The point is that now, ostensibly, there are hounds who are going to ensure that you pay and report that petty cash payment so the government can get it's net $28 proceeds. Resources and money that could be going instead to harassing the wealthy. 

Congrats Middle Class-- we played ourselves.

I once got a utility refund for $0.02, which obviously cost more to mail.  That's funny, and wasteful.

I'm pretty sure the gubmint can handle the monitoring and taxing of internet transactions for a net profit.  I recently sold something on ebay for $1300 or so, and had to fill out tax forms.  Nothing wrong with that.

[MeerkatBong 115]

I've come around to hate the billionaires and want to tax them to death. That's growth for me.

But I've also not seen enough to leave the middle class alone. We are like soil that's been overworked and lack nitrogen. Give us a cycle or two to get healthy before you rip us up with your thrashers again and take our first fruits and give them away. 

I guess I should have focused more on the lamentation of the middle class then a focus on the IRS but that tweet is what stirred in me these feelings. I can see that I'm alone on this board of feeling this way, which of course means that I'm wrong.

Edited December 1, 2022 by MeerkatBong

[Foosters 17688]

So basically you're looking for a political party that hurts the rich and the poor but leaves people like you alone?

Good luck.

[MeerkatBong 115]

2 minutes ago, Foosters said:

So basically you're looking for a political party that hurts the rich and the poor but leaves people like you alone?

Good luck.

You want to co-charter one with me?

Also I should change the title to "Defend the IRS" based on the sentiment of the community here. I really misread the room.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33779]

10 minutes ago, MeerkatBong said:

I really misread the room.

that's your superpower. self-awareness is the first step.

[Chewbacca 7665]

18 minutes ago, MeerkatBong said:

I've come around to hate the billionaires and want to tax them to death. That's growth for me.

But I've also not seen enough to leave the middle class alone. We are like soil that's been overworked and lack nitrogen. Give us a cycle or two to get healthy before you rip us up with your thrashers again and take our first fruits and give them away. 

I guess I should have focused more on the lamentation of the middle class then a focus on the IRS but that tweet is what stirred in me these feelings. I can see that I'm alone on this board of feeling this way, which of course means that I'm wrong.

You can confiscate the wealth of the top .1% and it's not enough to fund the government for more than a year or two.  The middle class is the engine that keeps the lights on.

[MeerkatBong 115]

7 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

You can confiscate the wealth of the top .1% and it's not enough to fund the government for more than a year or two.  The middle class is the engine that keeps the lights on.

I guess that is the source of the frustration. Atlas cannot shrug.

Also, did you know the $600 threshold is relatively new?

The $600 threshold was introduced in the Inflation Reduction Act back in 2021 Before this year, the threshold was at least 200 transactions that totaled over $20,000

Edited December 1, 2022 by MeerkatBong

[Chewbacca 7665]

2 minutes ago, MeerkatBong said:

I guess that is the source of the frustration. Atlas cannot shrug.

Also, did you know the $600 threshold is relatively new?

The $600 threshold was introduced in the Inflation Reduction Act back in 2021 Before this year, the threshold was at least 200 transactions that totaled over $20,000

$600 has long been the threshold for sending 1099s as a business.  And you've always been required to pay tax on all income you make.  The government takes money to run.  

[cactusflinthead 27588]

Keep talking shithead.

It started off as a fucking dodgy premise of a thread and since he suffers from gottaberightis keeps doubling down on the bullshit.

Fuck off

[jimmyjazz 45426]

I'm all for a more progressive tax code, it's out of whack.

I don't see how ignoring income, in any particular tax bracket, is the right way to get there.  Tax the wealthy more, the poor & middle class less, and require everyone to report all income.  This isn't difficult.

[TwiceHorn 31069]

48 minutes ago, MeerkatBong said:

Everyone on this website save maybe the Chicago guy who was bought out by the PE firm and got his Rolls Royce stolen in Chicago is closer to a homeless person than a Trump or Biden. Heck, half of us are a year or two without income and we would be homeless, so I agree.

Nonetheless, we are also probably top 5% in the nation and definitely top 10%.

When most people on Surl talk about the middle class, they're not talking about themselves.

[kevwun 15570]

38 minutes ago, MeerkatBong said:

You want to co-charter one with me?

Also I should change the title to "Defend the IRS" based on the sentiment of the community here. I really misread the room.

We all know you're a sock account.  Take your crowdsource banning and we'll see you next year.

[TwiceHorn 31069]

The problem with this whole thing is OP's original point is nothing more than a reminder from the IRS that income in excess of $600 is taxable.  It's not some enforcement threat, it's a statement of fact and has little or nothing to do with whether the IRS is going to audit or sue anyone or whether they have or lack the funding to do so.

Changes to the tax law are one thing, but kneecapping the enforcement and collection agency without changing the law is just nonsensical.  It's about the worst possible way to go about taxation one can think of.

Edited December 1, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[hornmpa96 2597]

[Hornius Emeritus 12387]

In my opinion we should get rid of income tax and simply add a VAT on consumption, with staples like bread, milk, diapers etc... not part of that so as not to unduly impact the poor.

 

[G650 13836]

2 hours ago, MeerkatBong said:

Heck, half of us are a year or two without income and we would be homeless, so I agree

Uh, not so much. But I feel a lot more affinity to the homeless guy than I do Elon Musk.

[G650 13836]

2 hours ago, MeerkatBong said:

I guess that is the source of the frustration. Atlas cannot shrug.

Also, did you know the $600 threshold is relatively new?

The $600 threshold was introduced in the Inflation Reduction Act back in 2021 Before this year, the threshold was at least 200 transactions that totaled over $20,000

Wat.

 

No it isn't

[CooterBrown 17850]

This why you should use Zelle instead of Venmo. The IRS reporting doesn’t apply to their app regardless of the amount of money changing hands.

[G650 13836]

I didn't realize the Doc got his Rolls jacked lol. Turrible

[Nivek 16769]

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I'm a regular W2 employee with minimal non-W2 income. I'm for increased IRS funding to catch those who do not pay what they owe. Those citizens are putting too much of the burden on rest of us. 

Meanwhile, the GoPro dude pays nothing, the Patagonia due pays nothing, Trump pays nothing, Musk pays nothing, Buffet/Gates pay nothing, Trump pays nothing...

[Hornius Emeritus 12387]

6 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

This why you should use Zelle instead of Venmo. The IRS reporting doesn’t apply to their app regardless of the amount of money changing hands.

This is not true.  It includes Paypal, Venmo, Zelle, CashApp, Stripe etc....

 

[Hornius Emeritus 12387]

9 minutes ago, G650 said:

Wat.

 

No it isn't

It is.  Beginning January 1, 2022 all of these platforms will be required to issue 1099Ks to any taxpayer who receives $600 or more for transactions tagged as "Goods and Services".  This is a change from the current state of affairs which required 1099Ks to be generated only for $20,000 of gross revenue and 200 individual transactions of this type.

 

[CooterBrown 17850]

This is not true.  It includes Paypal, Venmo, Zelle, CashApp, Stripe etc....

 

Zelle says no.

From their website:

Zelle does not report any transactions made on the Zelle Network to the IRS, even if the total is more than $600. The law requiring certain payment networks to provide forms 1099K for information reporting does not apply to the Zelle Network.

[Biff Tannen 45439]

2 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

$600 has long been the threshold for sending 1099s as a business.  And you've always been required to pay tax on all income you make.  The government takes money to run.  

This.  I've had to have conversations with clients about this for the past 2 years at least in the short term rental industry.  It used to be the 200 transactions/$20,000 model.  The change was before the IRA.

[Neonmoon 38127]

2 hours ago, MeerkatBong said:

I guess that is the source of the frustration. Atlas cannot shrug.

Also, did you know the $600 threshold is relatively new?

The $600 threshold was introduced in the Inflation Reduction Act back in 2021 Before this year, the threshold was at least 200 transactions that totaled over $20,000

Please stop posting. 

[G650 13836]

22 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

It is.  Beginning January 1, 2022 all of these platforms will be required to issue 1099Ks to any taxpayer who receives $600 or more for transactions tagged as "Goods and Services".  This is a change from the current state of affairs which required 1099Ks to be generated only for $20,000 of gross revenue and 200 individual transactions of this type.

 

That's not what I'm saying, the 600 requirement isn't new.

16 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

This.  I've had to have conversations with clients about this for the past 2 years at least in the short term rental industry.  It used to be the 200 transactions/$20,000 model.  The change was before the IRA.

Exactly

[Nivek 16769]

2 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

You can confiscate the wealth of the top .1% and it's not enough to fund the government for more than a year or two.  The middle class is the engine that keeps the lights on.

The top 10% own about 68% of the total wealth.   The top 1% own about 31% Source

The 0.25% have about 30% of the total wealth, which is about $39 Trillion.   

The current outlay is approximately 6 trillion/yr.  Source. 

So no.  You can confiscate it all and run the Fed for about 6.5 years.   

The states collect about 1.2 trillion in taxes.   Source

So we could run the entire country tax-free for 5.4 years just on the wealth of the 0.25% alone.  

 

[elfenix 34161]

2 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

You can confiscate the wealth of the top .1% and it's not enough to fund the government for more than a year or two.  The middle class is the engine that keeps the lights on.

latest estimate (2022 Q2) of total wealth of the top .1% is estimated at $17.05 trillion (down from last years' Q4 of $18.46 trillion).  FY 2022 is $6.27 trillion, so the wealth of the .1% would pay for nearly 3 years of current federal spending.  it would be interesting to see how that figure has changed over time. 

the rest of the top 1% (minimum wealth $10.2 million, so not middle class, though that figure is from Q2 2019) hold another $25.08 trillion, so another 4 years of spending.  they're not middle class. 

the rest of the top 10% hold another $50 trillion, so nearly another 8 years of spending.  minimum wealth there is $1.8 million, so maybe a relative few middle class people who've done well with their investments at the bottom of that, but, like all these percentages, the wealth is biased to the top of the scale. 

the rest of the population holds ~$33.6 trillion.

[Chewbacca 7665]

I didn't realize the Doc got his Rolls jacked lol. Turrible

Got his Patek stolen, too. Rough summer in the windy city.

[StassneyHorn 6514]

10 hours ago, pacman said:

The last person to tell me this was a firefighter...who gets paid with taxpayer funds lol

Firefighters are overpaid janitors and don’t let anyone tell you different

[Biff Tannen 45439]

2 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

Firefighters are overpaid janitors and don’t let anyone tell you different

yeah no.  I'm going to assume it's just a dumb joke.

[StassneyHorn 6514]

No they are

[RDCanecutter 26198]

I wouldn't be homeless because my Mama loves me. I feel bad for all the other fuckers here though.

I'm a super dumbass because I report cash sales as income tax. You just know the gummint got bots monitoring the social networks for some little freak posting "Look at what I bought from RDCanecutter, and for only $7.48 cash!" and the the other bots tackle me in the alley to shake me down for those taxes. I'm talkin 7 George Washington Dollars, and 2 cents less than 50 cents. They want it.

It's like moving through cartel-controlled areas in Mexico. Always be polite, always buy a rose or a newspaper or a shoeshine, and tip a little. Not a lot are you fuckin insane? Just be nice with a normal tip. It's like worshipping Cthulhu; you get eaten last.

This weekend I will additionally be paying Birmingham city sales tax on the same shit I report income tax on, because the City of Birmingham has awakened one sleeping dinosaur eye to perceive an ongoing popular art show, which is popular in spite of anything Birmingham has ever done. But it's time to tip the newspaper vendor, get eaten last.

[hpslugga 4026]

12 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Yeah, fuck the IRS for wanting to collect taxes on income!

Wouldn't it just be easier to admit that you want all the benefits of government ---- roads, a robust national defense, national parks etc... ----  but don't want to pay for them?

That's the very essence of right wing America: all of the rights, none of the responsibilities. Of course they have their own share of apologists, which is just another word for "professional liars who lie in defense of an indefensible position," and of course they have to make it seem like their positions are rooted in this deep, ideological and intellectual thought process. Here's all it really amounts to: magic thinking on the order of...

Edited December 2, 2022 by hpslugga

[Nivek 16769]

14 hours ago, elfenix said:

the rest of the population holds ~$33.6 trillion.

Allow me to build off of El Fenix's post a little. 90% of the population has about 1/3 of the total wealth in this country, which by its very nature of being diluted, means that most of it is taxed in some way or another.   The wealthy have ways of sheltering their gains that are not taxable.   Your average engineer is not getting loans from a bank to live on and getting paid in stock to limit taxes.  

In much more simplistic terms, the government needs money to operate.  If guys like trump are paying $500 due to loopholes and games then the government has to tax others to keep the lights on.    

Exercise: Add up your real tax burden and see for yourself what you are really paying (ss, medicare, income, state taxes, registration, gas, sales, etc.) 

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Nivek

[Chewbacca 7665]

14 hours ago, elfenix said:

latest estimate (2022 Q2) of total wealth of the top .1% is estimated at $17.05 trillion (down from last years' Q4 of $18.46 trillion).  FY 2022 is $6.27 trillion, so the wealth of the .1% would pay for nearly 3 years of current federal spending.  it would be interesting to see how that figure has changed over time. 

the rest of the top 1% (minimum wealth $10.2 million, so not middle class, though that figure is from Q2 2019) hold another $25.08 trillion, so another 4 years of spending.  they're not middle class. 

the rest of the top 10% hold another $50 trillion, so nearly another 8 years of spending.  minimum wealth there is $1.8 million, so maybe a relative few middle class people who've done well with their investments at the bottom of that, but, like all these percentages, the wealth is biased to the top of the scale. 

the rest of the population holds ~$33.6 trillion.

Yep, so 3 years instead of 1 or 2.  Point remains the same.  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13388]

The lack of IRS funding has indirectly led to people hiding vast sums of income. Now-dead Houstonian who hid $2+ Billion of income from the IRS.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-06/robert-brockman-software-developer-who-fought-irs-dies-at-81

For most of us, we have close-to-zero ability to not pay our full taxes. The system is setup for W-2 employees to pay their full share. But those that have earned large income via entrepreneurship, inheritance or real estate all have been given (or paid for) rights to legally avoid taxes that also tempt them to evade taxes via the same mechanism.

And if someone replies that I, as an w-2 employee, am jealous that I don't have the same rights to protect my income. Hell yes I am. I wish I could receive 100% of my income given to me via each paycheck and then I decide when and how to pay the IRS based on my interpretation of the law.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Nice Guy Eddie

[David Dennison 18484]

1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The lack of IRS funding has indirectly led to people hiding vast sums of income. Now-dead Houstonian who hid $2+ Billion of income from the IRS.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-06/robert-brockman-software-developer-who-fought-irs-dies-at-81

For most of us, we have close-to-zero ability to not pay our full taxes. The system is setup for W-2 employees to pay their full share. But those that have earned large income via entrepreneurship, inheritance or real estate all have been given (or paid for) rights to legally avoid taxes that also tempt them to evade taxes via the same mechanism.

And if someone replies that I, as an w-2 employee, is jealous that I don't have the same rights to protect my income. Hell yes I am. I wish I could receive 100% of my income given to me via each paycheck and then I decide when and how to pay the IRS based on my interpretation of the law.

That's not how modern feudalism works.

[Nivek 16769]

The lack of IRS funding has indirectly led to people hiding vast sums of income. Now-dead Houstonian who hid $2+ Billion of income from the IRS.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-06/robert-brockman-software-developer-who-fought-irs-dies-at-81
For most of us, we have close-to-zero ability to not pay our full taxes. The system is setup for W-2 employees to pay their full share. But those that have earned large income via entrepreneurship, inheritance or real estate all have been given (or paid for) rights to legally avoid taxes that also tempt them to evade taxes via the same mechanism.
And if someone replies that I, as an w-2 employee, is jealous that I don't have the same rights to protect my income. Hell yes I am. I wish I could receive 100% of my income given to me via each paycheck and then I decide when and how to pay the IRS based on my interpretation of the law.

Stop being poor! Or middle class! Or even upper middle class.

[fattyflattie 4636]

OP, it’s important that everyone pay.  If you don’t have skin in the game, you don’t really care about the results.   We have very large and very small bookend groups that don’t contribute shit.  That naturally leads to the middle taking up the lions share. 

[David Dennison 18484]

9 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

OP, it’s important that everyone pay.  If you don’t have skin in the game, you don’t really care about the results.   We have very large and very small bookend groups that don’t contribute shit.  That naturally leads to the middle taking up the lions share. 

The bottom pays plenty.

[wildcat09 29146]

7 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The bottom pays plenty.

Plenty of us have had this discussion with him before, but unfortunately he refuses to be persuaded by unimportant things like the actual facts.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33779]

I can't believe y'all are humoring this, what?, 5-time crowd-sourced airhead.

[David Dennison 18484]

The right acts like the only tax that matters is the federal income tax.

 

[jimmyjazz 45426]

24 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

We have very large and very small bookend groups that don’t contribute shit.  That naturally leads to the middle taking up the lions share. 

Way to #bothsides the discussion.  Nobody buys the bullshit.

[fattyflattie 4636]

5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Way to #bothsides the discussion.  Nobody buys the bullshit.

Only anyone with eyes. The numbers are easy. They take more than they contribute. That is a net negative for their contribution to society.  The rich don’t pay shit either, but at least they aren’t spitting in our fucking hamburgers before heading down to grab some groceries a net positive payer provides for them.  

[G650 13836]

Literally not how it works.

[David Dennison 18484]

2 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Only anyone with eyes. The numbers are easy. They take more than they contribute. That is a net negative for their contribution to society.  The rich don’t pay shit either, but at least they aren’t spitting in our fucking hamburgers before heading down to grab some groceries a net positive payer provides for them.  

How do you know you don't take more than you contribute? How much is your security worth? How about all the money you save because of the power of the dollar? Are you sure you aren't a net negative for society?

 

[safe sex 11628]

7 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Only anyone with eyes. The numbers are easy. They take more than they contribute. That is a net negative for their contribution to society.  The rich don’t pay shit either, but at least they aren’t spitting in our fucking hamburgers before heading down to grab some groceries a net positive payer provides for them.  

Stop being shitty to service people and they'll stop spitting in your food, goddam.