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Posted
23 hours ago, Captainant said:

Kim Kardashian?

 

23 hours ago, Samson's Wig said:

Definitely of a piece.

 

23 hours ago, mchookem said:

oh. yeah. that fits. 

 

Posted (edited)

Along the lines of young men feeling left behind, this is a great article from Ars Technica 

https://arstechnica.com/science/2025/05/why-incels-take-the-blackpill-and-why-we-should-care/

Quote

Is effective intervention even possible for members of the incel community, given their online echo chamber? Beckett-Herbert acknowledges that it is very difficult to break through to such people. "De-radicalization is a noble, worthy line of research," she said. "But the existing evidence from that field of study suggests that prevention is easier and more effective than trying to pull these people out once they're already in." Potential strategies might include fostering better digital and media literacy, i.e., teaching kids to be cognizant of the content they're consuming online. Exposure time is another key issue.

"A lot of these young people don't have healthy outlets that are not in the digital world," said Beckett-Herbert "They come home from school and spend hours and hours online. They're lonely and isolated from real-world communities and structures. Some of these harmful ideologies might be downstream of these larger root causes. How can we help boys do better in school, feel better prepared for the labor market? How can we help them make more friends? How can we get them involved in real-world activities that will diminish their time spent online? I think that that can go a long way. Just condemning them or banning their spaces—that's not a good long-term solution."

While there are multiple well-publicized instances of self-identified incels committing violent acts—most notably Elliot Rodger, who killed six people in 2014—Beckett-Herbert emphasizes not losing sight of incels' fundamental humanity. "We focus a lot on the misogyny, the potential for violence against women, and that is so important," she said. "You will not hear me saying we should not focus on that. But we also should note that statistically, an incel is much more likely to commit suicide or be violent towards themselves than they are toward someone else. You can both condemn their ideology and find it abhorrent and also remember that we need to have empathy for these people."

Many people—women especially—might find that a tall order, and Beckett-Herbert understands that reluctance. "I do understand people's hesitancy to empathize with them, because it feels like you're giving credence to their rhetoric," she said. "But at the end of the day, they are human, and a lot of them are really struggling, marginalized people coming from pretty sad backgrounds. When you peruse their online world, it's the most horrifying, angering misogyny right next to some of the saddest mental health, suicidal, low self-esteem stuff you've ever seen. I think humanizing them and having empathy is going to be foundational to any intervention efforts to reintegrate them. But it's something I wrestle with a lot."

The above is from the conclusion of the article, but it nails that there's no more "third space" that isn't online. There needs to be more that isn't online, and yet that's the direction that schooling and everything is moving to save costs. 

Edited by Captainant
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Posted

Rehitting this whole men left behind thing - I've been meaning to get to this for a bit, it's a podcast by Scott Galloway and Anthony Scaramucci (way more intelligent than you probably think he is) that is about this lost generation of males. The basic premise is that we have ripped up the script that males were expected to follow for almost all of history - be the provider for the family unit - and rightly so because now others can pull those duties. But we haven't given them a new playbook of what to do. We tell them you can't do X, Y, Z - again this is not the problem. The problem is that we haven't given them a new script to follow.

 

Again, this isn't my view - this is theirs, and a hopeful guide on how to improve things - IE hopefully not let guys like Andrew Tate and others become their guide on the journey.

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Posted

Galloway has a great example of the double standard of the white guy vs everyone else

Often we hear "These white guys need to get off their asses" "These white guys need to be raised right"

Replace white guys with black people, women or any other minority group and think of what the fallout of such a statement would be.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

Rehitting this whole men left behind thing - I've been meaning to get to this for a bit, it's a podcast by Scott Galloway and Anthony Scaramucci (way more intelligent than you probably think he is) that is about this lost generation of males. The basic premise is that we have ripped up the script that males were expected to follow for almost all of history - be the provider for the family unit - and rightly so because now others can pull those duties. But we haven't given them a new playbook of what to do. We tell them you can't do X, Y, Z - again this is not the problem. The problem is that we haven't given them a new script to follow.

 

Again, this isn't my view - this is theirs, and a hopeful guide on how to improve things - IE hopefully not let guys like Andrew Tate and others become their guide on the journey.

Galloway really is great on this topic.  Plenty of folks have been sounding the alarm on this for a long time (shit, I remember my wife getting wide-eyed and worried about it 15+ years ago, when our son was in first grade - "Jesus, our system is failing our boys.").  Now, the results of a societal trend that wasn't purposeful (it all just kinda happened) are being seen....and they're really, really bad.

Modern Western society has failed young men.  And the cost of that failure is bad for EVERYONE - the young men we have failed are turning to harmful outlets/alternatives.  It doesn't excuse the conduct, but FFS, when you set people up for failure and psychosis, don't act surprised when they become psychotic failures.

Edited by Brisketexan
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Posted
On 5/31/2025 at 4:20 PM, Captainant said:

Along the lines of young men feeling left behind, this is a great article from Ars Technica 

https://arstechnica.com/science/2025/05/why-incels-take-the-blackpill-and-why-we-should-care/

The above is from the conclusion of the article, but it nails that there's no more "third space" that isn't online. There needs to be more that isn't online, and yet that's the direction that schooling and everything is moving to save costs. 

Getting off social media was the best decision I ever made, period.  It's ruining society and everyone has brain rot and depression.  All we do now is sit around mad or sad because of influencers showing off their very fake and curated lives, your friends showing off their cars/houses/vacations, etc. and you don't have that.  

Go fucking outside.

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Posted
37 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Getting off social media was the best decision I ever made, period.  It's ruining society and everyone has brain rot and depression.  All we do now is sit around mad or sad because of influencers showing off their very fake and curated lives, your friends showing off their cars/houses/vacations, etc. and you don't have that.  

Go fucking outside.

Except here.  It's fine to be wasting time on this particular corner of the innerwebz, amirite?

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

Except here.  It's fine to be wasting time on this particular corner of the innerwebz, amirite?

Thank god you ugly fucks ain't sharing pictures of yourselves here. 

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

Except here.  It's fine to be wasting time on this particular corner of the innerwebz, amirite?

Also I would call this a very different, niche website than "social media"

It's a bunch of sarcastic assholes joking about things and talking about sports, TV shows, food and current events.  It's a forum of Longhorns (and whatever losers found their way here from their shitty message boards). I consider Surly a lot like Reddit - it is more of an aggregator of conversation about niche topics than showing off your fake life. 

Edited by Js1
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Posted
10 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Also I would call this a very different, niche website than "social media"

It's a bunch of sarcastic assholes joking about things and talking about sports, TV shows, food and current events.  It's a forum of Longhorns (and whatever losers found their way here from their shitty message boards). I consider Surly a lot like Reddit - it is more of an aggregator of conversation about niche topics than showing off your fake life. 

I generally agree. This is reddit with a user interface I don't despise. Additionally, no one here is showing off their lives, because most of these people are degenerate slobs who should be ashamed of themselves. And the rest, like myself, have zero desire to give away enough information that the rest of you unwashed plebians could actually find me. 

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Posted

This site is substantively different from most social media in one key way: You control what you see, not any algorithm. 

In my mind, that single element makes all the difference between a message board like Surly and every other "social" site, including Reddit.

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Posted
15 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I consider Surly a lot like Reddit - it is more of an aggregator of conversation about niche topics than showing off your fake life. 

I mean, there are 2-3 posters here who think I'm actually kinda smart, so let's not be so quick on the "not showing off your fake life."

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

This site is substantively different from most social media in one key way: You control what you see, not any algorithm. 

In my mind, that single element makes all the difference between a message board like Surly and every other "social" site, including Reddit.

 

This cannot be understated - controlling what you see is paramount to this being a far better site than Facefriend or Instasnap or Tik Gram. When they control what you see, it's not healthy and honestly, I find it boring.

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

In my mind, that single element makes all the difference between a message board like Surly and every other "social" site, including Reddit.

If you never click on popular or all, you control what you see via only the subreddits you choose to follow (and it's way easier to control it via the mobile site than the app). 

And you can mute any subreddit you don't want to ever see anything from.

But yes, surly's lack of algorithm is what keeps this from being a social media site and more of a social forum. 

Posted (edited)

Well, not ALL the difference. 

Obviously, message boards can become echo chambers, too.

We are one, after all. An echo chamber. 

Sure, I can say things that are controversial and get people on both sides arguing; political opinions, religious beliefs, philosophy, yeah. 

But on the other hand, if I say that OU sucks the shit off of a dead man's cock and eagerly comes back for seconds, not a damn one of you would openly disagree.

Edited by Rimbo
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Posted
Just now, Js1 said:

If you never click on popular or all, you control what you see via only the subreddits you choose to follow (and it's way easier to control it via the mobile site than the app). 

And you can mute any subreddit you don't want to ever see anything from.

But yes, surly's lack of algorithm is what keeps this from being a social media site and more of a social forum. 

Nope. The sorting algorithms are "hot," "controversial" and "best". Your only option that presents EVERYTHING is "New," and unless you're doing that in a small subreddit, get ready to drink from the firehose.

Posted
2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

If you never click on popular or all, you control what you see via only the subreddits you choose to follow (and it's way easier to control it via the mobile site than the app). 

And you can mute any subreddit you don't want to ever see anything from.

But yes, surly's lack of algorithm is what keeps this from being a social media site and more of a social forum. 

Reddit has a lot more access to tits than this site does.

I understand that may not be important to YOU, but to some of the other folks around here.....it has its charms.

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Posted
Just now, Brisketexan said:

Reddit has a lot more access to tits than this site does.

I understand that may not be important to YOU, but to some of the other folks around here.....it has its charms.

I mean, I use it. I'm not shitting on it like I do the metagram, Bookface, Xitter, etc. 

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Posted
12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I mean, there are 2-3 posters here who think I'm actually kinda smart, so let's not be so quick on the "not showing off your fake life."

If anyone that posts here ever earnestly calls me smart I'm hurling myself off the nearest bridge

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Posted
1 hour ago, Js1 said:

Thank god you ugly fucks ain't sharing pictures of yourselves here. 

 

25 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I mean, I use it. I'm not shitting on it like I do the metagram, Bookface, Xitter, etc. 

5oy.gif

Posted
1 hour ago, Js1 said:

Also I would call this a very different, niche website than "social media"

It's a bunch of sarcastic assholes joking about things and talking about sports, TV shows, food and current events.  It's a forum of Longhorns (and whatever losers found their way here from their shitty message boards). I consider Surly a lot like Reddit - it is more of an aggregator of conversation about niche topics than showing off your fake life. 

IMG_6157.gif.0ffa7a17fd47050b8b58888835aec1a3.gif

53 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Reddit has a lot more access to tits than this site does.

IMG_0001.gif.ac4dab0cb8b25e2d27566a285a55b8f6.gif

 

Posted
3 hours ago, Captain Ron said:

Rehitting this whole men left behind thing - I've been meaning to get to this for a bit, it's a podcast by Scott Galloway and Anthony Scaramucci (way more intelligent than you probably think he is) that is about this lost generation of males. The basic premise is that we have ripped up the script that males were expected to follow for almost all of history - be the provider for the family unit - and rightly so because now others can pull those duties. But we haven't given them a new playbook of what to do. We tell them you can't do X, Y, Z - again this is not the problem. The problem is that we haven't given them a new script to follow.

 

Again, this isn't my view - this is theirs, and a hopeful guide on how to improve things - IE hopefully not let guys like Andrew Tate and others become their guide on the journey.

thanks for posting. I will check out the podcast.

Like you hit on, it's easy to point out there's a problem. And its cool to identify and/or vent about a problem. We all do it. But what are possible and realistic solutions.

It's like when I hear about a young person vent how it was so easy for boomer and gen x to buy their dream house at age 24 (spoiler, it wasn't easy or possible for most) but the person offers zero solutions to help younger people today with home buying. I agree there's a problem today but I don't know the solution either.

Posted
46 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I agree there's a problem today but I don't know the solution either.

Galloway's stuff has done a decent job of talking about solutions.  The problem is, it took us decades to get in this hole....and it's gonna take us decades to get out of it.  AND, it requires cultural shifts, like "make caring about other human beings a good thing again," and "emphasize, incentivize, and create opportunities for real face-to-face human relationship."  All of which can fall under the broader umbrella of "community."  "Individualism," particularly the toxic brand of same that is sold as the exclusive virtue of existence in American society, is killing us.  And.....this is not new.  This book came out 25 years ago:

71mpOLYTQML._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg

We need community.  We need third places.  We need each other.  We're killing ourselves in individual pods of loneliness and lack of support and camaraderie.

I know that my male friendships, and actual face-to-face connection with same, is a key element in keeping me sane and healthy.  Not a side note, but central to my basic humanity and well-being.  We make each other better.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/29/2025 at 3:25 PM, Brian Fantana said:

The real answer is this bitch Hannah Pearl Davis - Wikipedia

e: Otherwise known as the worst pickme of all time

I remember her first appearing on my radar being a part in some movie. My question was who is this unfunny weirdo that  makes me oddly uncomfortable and why is she in this show. I looked her up and my questions remained.

Edited by BurntEyes
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Js1 said:

Also I would call this a very different, niche website than "social media"

It's a bunch of sarcastic assholes joking about things and talking about sports, TV shows, food and current events.  It's a forum of Longhorns (and whatever losers found their way here from their shitty message boards). I consider Surly a lot like Reddit - it is more of an aggregator of conversation about niche topics than showing off your fake life. 

But it’s also a bit of a safe space where guys can discreetly share recommendations for surgeons who do penis reduction surgery, or serial killers can discuss their latest water-related kills.  

Edited by atomheartbevo
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Posted
13 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

But it’s also a bit of a safe space where guys can discreetly share recommendations for surgeons who do penis reduction surgery, magic of wreath funds for cancer, future politicos can share nudes, or serial killers can discuss their later water-related kills and/or knowledge of the tow industry.

Fixed

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Posted
7 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

thanks for posting. I will check out the podcast.

Like you hit on, it's easy to point out there's a problem. And its cool to identify and/or vent about a problem. We all do it. But what are possible and realistic solutions.

It's like when I hear about a young person vent how it was so easy for boomer and gen x to buy their dream house at age 24 (spoiler, it wasn't easy or possible for most) but the person offers zero solutions to help younger people today with home buying. I agree there's a problem today but I don't know the solution either.

Galloway’s solutions are pretty basic - find and mentor a male kid in need. Go volunteer with Big Brothers. Help boys with no positive male role model to have one. Overcome this stigma that being interested in helping shape a young man’s life is something “weird”.

It’s really not that hard, it just takes effort. 

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