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Israel-Hamas war thread


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1 hour ago, Frank Drebin said:

It's likely protected speech.  

Talk to the KAs about freedom of speech.
 

Not condoning anything that vile organization has ever done, but multiple kids were kicked out of multiple institutions for hate speech against blacks (in general) and that was the correct way to handle that situation.

In this scenario students are supporting terrorist attacks against a specific nation/people/religion. All thing considered equal they SHOULD be given the same treatment (but I doubt they will because they are on the correct side of the political divide.

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5 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

Talk to the KAs about freedom of speech.
 

Not condoning anything that vile organization has ever done, but multiple kids were kicked out of multiple institutions for hate speech against blacks (in general).

In this scenario students are supporting terrorist attacks against a specific nation/people/religion. All thing considered equal they SHOULD be given the same treatment (but I doubt they will because they are on the correct side of the political divide.

This is a discussion for another thread, but I seriously doubt those kicked out for racial slurs ever challenged their dismissals in court.  Because the last thing they wanted was more publicity.  And I can guarantee you the schools who kicked them out very likely knew their decision to dismiss wouldn’t be challenged.  

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54 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

I don’t understand that at all.

Penelope has negged every one of my posts on CR. I have her on ignore. @immamac I think it’s about time for me to exit. Nuke my account. This board stifles any conversation, and I don’t ever wanna post here again. 

Rex Beeper you don't have to announce your departure.

Just go if you can't take it any more. Or you could avoid saying shit that gets you negged. Does she neg you every time you post in Oil Barons? The Ticket thread?

But, there's the door if you want to go. 

Gonna make imma scrub the site again? That's so much fun.

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People are shitty. And have been shitty to each other for a long damn time.

I've avoided this thread and the news about it. But, I couldn't completely get away from it. 

I want to watch baseball and football and think about the start of hockey. Not how shitty people are doing mean and extra shitty things to other people. Burned alive, beheadings, and other shit too mean to mention. They have uncorked the bottle again and it's going to be messy.

There are no winners. Just a pause in the ongoing shit storm.

End Lahey rant

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1 hour ago, Porterhouse said:

I don’t understand that at all.

Penelope has negged every one of my posts on CR. I have her on ignore. @immamac I think it’s about time for me to exit. Nuke my account. This board stifles any conversation, and I don’t ever wanna post here again. 

You got negged because you basically said some pretty horrible things in that thread.  You also have repeatedly shown your ass, showing that you know nothing about what you are talking about, and have been pointedly told that by a number of people. Sorry you got your fee fees hurt on an internet message board.  Lol. 

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7 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

People are shitty. And have been shitty to each other for a long damn time.

I've avoided this thread and the news about it. But, I couldn't completely get away from it. 

I want to watch baseball and football and think about the start of hockey. Not how shitty people are doing mean and extra shitty things to other people. Burned alive, beheadings, and other shit too mean to mention. They have uncorked the bottle again and it's going to be messy.

There are no winners. Just a pause in the ongoing shit storm.

End Lahey rant

yeah man, right there with you. I've got nothing. 20+ years of adulthood watching this conflict. The only thing I've learned is a stalemate does nothing but kick the can down the road. The only way this stops is one side completely destroying the other.

I got nothing. Just sad, real sad

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40 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I can’t stand some of your posts because they convey the thoughts of someone with a very limited view of the world, but I would hope that you wouldn’t throw in the towel because this place educates everyone. I’ve learned a lot here. I do believe indiscriminate negging of all posts should be dealt with.

 

 

 

 

I’m not sure what I posted that’d indicate a limited world view. I like you as a poster though I misread you early on and was kind of a cocksucker to you. I’m sorry. This is an impossible group to have a dialogue here. 

10 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Rex Beeper you don't have to announce your departure.

Just go if you can't take it any more. Or you could avoid saying shit that gets you negged. Does she neg you every time you post in Oil Barons? The Ticket thread?

But, there's the door if you want to go. 

Gonna make imma scrub the site again? That's so much fun.

Not Rex, I am Beeper, I am going and have PM’ed imma that I’d prefer to be scrubbed but don’t need to be. Penelope negs me where she can find me. Any serious topic will be stifled by her and posters like her. They dominate the board and anyone who knows me in real life, I’d just rather not be associated with the site. 

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1 minute ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

You got negged because you basically said some pretty disposable things in that thread.  You also have repeatedly shown your ass, showing that you know nothing about what you are talking about.  Sorry you got your fee fees burn on an internet message board.  Lol.

Feelings don’t get hurt on a message board. I’d just rather have zero to do with you. And there are too many people like you. 

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1 minute ago, Porterhouse said:

I’m not sure what I posted that’d indicate a limited world view. I like you as a poster though I misread you early on and was kind of a cocksucker to you. I’m sorry. This is an impossible group to have a dialogue here. 

Not Rex, I am Beeper, I am going and have PM’ed imma that I’d prefer to be scrubbed but don’t need to be. Penelope negs me where she can find me. Any serious topic will be stifled by her and posters like her. They dominate the board and anyone who knows me in real life, I’d just rather not be associated with the site. 

Lol, no, I leave you alone except for the crap you have been spewing today.  You advocated genocide against an entire people.  That is pretty despicable stuff.  Internet message board rep, serious bidness.

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4 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Lol, no, I leave you alone except for the crap you have been spewing today.  You advocated genocide against an entire people.  That is pretty despicable stuff.  Internet message board rep, serious bidness.

I have you on ignore, and only have viewed your last two posts because you’ve effectively pushed me away forever. I’m pretty educated on the topic, and, I’d never advocate genocide and didn’t earlier, ever. Relocation (IF needed) is NOT genocide. 

@immamacplease please please close my account. 

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1 minute ago, Porterhouse said:

I have you on ignore, and only have viewed your last two posts because you’ve effectively pushed me away forever. I’m pretty educated on the topic, and, I’d never advocate genocide and didn’t earlier, ever. Relocation (IF needed) is NOT genocide. 

@immamacplease please please close my account. 

man just move on. I have nothing against you, but you have let it get under your skin. I disagree with a lot of posters but don't get so wrapped up with the interweb bullshit. 

 

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4 hours ago, Patricio Swayze said:

r/combatfootage has a lot of, well, combat footage from this conflict.

The paraglider footage is insane, dozens of them in the skies at once - that's some 1980s G I Joe cartoon shit.

3 hours ago, Porterhouse said:

I’m pretty shocked to see the vehement response from Palestinian supporters across Euro and US and Canada. Israeli-Palestinian relations had gone dormant for the last 10 years or so. From my somewhat-educated observations. These supporters just don’t have a leg to stand on. Im wondering if we’re seeing the beginnings of a much larger global conflict. 

Yeah, a lot of us had not paid any attention to Israel and the Palestinians for the most part in recent years, or if we did, it was Netanyahu's moves concerning the judiciary, which was causing civil unrest among Israelis. It does feel like somebody is trying to kickstart something that's big.

It's odd, because it's given Israel the chance to declare open season on Hamas in general, but they'll be hunting down the leadership pretty quickly, so those guys have basically committed suicide by Israeli special ops (or bombs).

This is way too organized though, so something is going on.  There are way too many accounts of them blowing the doors on Israeli homes and then blowing the doors to the safe rooms that a lot of Israelis have.  While blowing a door may not seem like a big deal, there's too many accounts of them doing it quickly and competently.  And the paraglider shit and the drone attacks on the radar/signals gathering sites and having all of the rockets/missiles ready to go, and the timing to catch large numbers in the open (the music festival) and working to maximize hostage taking.  There were times where it seemed like they were surprised that things had worked out as well as it did for them in the opening stages - they looked disorganized in terms of the hostage taking, but in other areas, they moved like they had military training.  Still, I'd have to think that all of these guys expected it to be a one-way trip to the grave.

This is some serious fucking training and planning.  It's not just Hamas leadership meeting in Tehran last week and getting a greelight for something they ginned up in a few weeks, somebody has been training them, somebody with recent experience (in terms of the drone attacks).

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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-09/israeli-palestinian-conflict-explained-from-peacemaking-to-war?sref=knoriXqz

This is an excellent primer on how we got here.  Posted text below for those without Bloomberg.  Trying to get the graphics.
 

Quote

The notion that Israelis and Palestinians can share the Holy Land living in separate, independent nations fueled on-and-off peace talks for more than 20 years. But the latest round foundered in 2014. In recent years, Israel has focused on making peace with Arab states, leaving the Palestinians with limited self-rule under the ultimate control of Israel. The Palestinian-Israeli violence that broke out in October challenged the idea that the status quo was sustainable, reviving calls for diplomacy aimed at the two-state solution. That option, however, is hardly popular on either side.

1. What’s the history of the two-state solution?

The two-state solution dates to the 1937 Peel Commission, which recommended partitioning what was then British Mandatory Palestine to stop Arab-Jewish violence. The United Nations embraced a different partition plan in 1947, but the Arabs rejected both, leading to Israel’s declaration of independence in 1948 and the first Arab-Israeli war. That period produced more than half a million Palestinian refugees. In a 1967 war, Israel captured, among other Arab territories, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank and East Jerusalem, putting residents under military occupation and fanning Palestinian nationalism. After a Palestinian uprising that began in 1987 claimed more than 1,200 Palestinian and 200 Israeli lives, secret negotiations produced the landmark 1993 Oslo accords. As an interim measure, Palestinians gained limited self-rule under an entity called the Palestinian Authority.
 

2. Why did the Oslo accords fall short?

The military occupation, Israeli settlement building and violence continued, as the two sides repeatedly failed to resolve issues standing in the way of a promised final agreement that presumably would have established a Palestinian state. A second Palestinian uprising, from 2000 to 2005, was especially bloody. Most countries already recognize Palestine as a state, but that hasn’t changed things on the ground: Israel has ultimate control over the territory. Stumbling blocks in Israeli-Palestinian negotiations included where to draw borders, how to share Jerusalem, and the status of Palestinian refugees. Israel acted alone in 2005, withdrawing its troops and settlers from the Gaza Strip, while largely sealing the frontier and later imposing a blockade after the militant group Hamas wrested control of the territory from the Palestinian Authority in 2007. Gaza subsequently became a launchpad for rockets, mortars and Palestinian fighters into Israel.

3. What do Israelis and Palestinians think of a two-state solution?

A joint survey of Israelis and Palestinians conducted in December 2022 found that support for a two-state solution had fallen to the lowest level since 2016. According to the survey, the idea was supported by 33% of Palestinians and 34% of Israeli Jews. 

4. What are the alternatives?

Many Israelis support the idea of extending Israeli sovereignty to at least part of the West Bank, where Israeli settlement-building has continued. Supporters of annexation say Israelis have a right to remain permanently in the West Bank, which they call by its biblical name of Judea and Samaria — the cradle of Jewish civilization. If Israel ultimately took full control over more Palestinians in the West Bank, it would have to choose between offering them citizenship — thereby diluting the country’s Jewish majority — or keeping them stateless, reinforcing accusations of apartheid. In the December poll, 37% of Israeli Jews said they’d like to see a solution involving a single non-democratic state in which Palestinians didn’t have equal rights. Thirty percent of Palestinians said they wanted a single, Palestinian-dominated state. Smaller minorities on both sides supported a binational state with equal rights for everyone.

The Reference Shelf

  • Related QuickTakes on Hamas, the Gaza Strip, Israeli settlements, the issue of annexation, the battle over Jerusalem, Palestinian refugees and the Golan Heights.
  • Results of the December 2022 Israeli-Palestinian poll on solutions to the conflict.
  • The Council on Foreign Relations’ digest of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
  • A discussion hosted by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace on the two-state versus the one-state solution.
 

— With assistance by Dave Merrill

 


 

 

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1 minute ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-09/israeli-palestinian-conflict-explained-from-peacemaking-to-war?sref=knoriXqz

This is an excellent primer on how we got here.  Posted text below for those without Bloomberg.  Trying to get the graphics.
 

 

Do they start at 50000ya? Because that's how far it goes. People have been fighting over that corner of dirt since we walked out of Africa about that long ago or maybe add 50k. 

It used to be pretty green. There used to be forests and lions and shit. 

We burned, dug, ate, and killed off everything right down to the bedrock. 

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1 minute ago, cactusflinthead said:

Do they start at 50000ya? Because that's how far it goes. People have been fighting over that corner of dirt since we walked out of Africa about that long ago or maybe add 50k. 

It used to be pretty green. There used to be forests and lions and shit. 

We burned, dug, ate, and killed off everything right down to the bedrock. 

No, this keeps it to starting at the Peel Commission.  Yeah. These folks have been fighting for thousands of years, but this focuses on 20th century forward.

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10 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

The paraglider footage is insane, dozens of them in the skies at once - that's some 1980s G I Joe cartoon shit.

Yeah, a lot of us had not paid any attention to Israel and the Palestinians for the most part in recent years, or if we did, it was Netanyahu's moves concerning the judiciary, which was causing civil unrest among Israelis. It does feel like somebody is trying to kickstart something that's big.

It's odd, because it's given Israel the chance to declare open season on Hamas in general, but they'll be hunting down the leadership pretty quickly, so those guys have basically committed suicide by Israeli special ops (or bombs).

This is way too organized though, so something is going on.  There are way too many accounts of them blowing the doors on Israeli homes and then blowing the doors to the safe rooms that a lot of Israelis have.  While blowing a door may not seem like a big deal, there's too many accounts of them doing it quickly and competently.  And the paraglider shit and the drone attacks on the radar/signals gathering sites and having all of the rockets/missiles ready to go, and the timing to catch large numbers in the open (the music festival) and working to maximize hostage taking.  There were times where it seemed like they were surprised that things had worked out as well as it did for them in the opening stages - they looked disorganized in terms of the hostage taking, but in other areas, they moved like they had military training.  Still, I'd have to think that all of these guys expected it to be a one-way trip to the grave.

This is some serious fucking training and planning.  It's not just Hamas leadership meeting in Tehran last week and getting a greelight for something they ginned up in a few weeks, somebody has been training them, somebody with recent experience (in terms of the drone attacks).

I think it is fair to say that there probably are some Russian operatives on the ground that helped train them. 

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3 hours ago, NoRagrets said:

There are reports that there’s a video of Hamas burning a teenager to death in front of a cheering crowd. 

Someone else said that was an old video from south America. I don't know because I am not going to watch it and analyze it. 

 

2 hours ago, Chopper said:

I have no idea of what offensive or defensive capabilities Israel has vis-a-vis Iran, Hamas, or Hezbollah but my impression is Netanyahu has been railing for a chance to go after Iran for years and the US is what's stopped him. With the terrorist attacks by Hamas however the US just lost all leverage. IMO Israel isn't planning on stopping after they decimate Hamas but time will tell.

Netanyahu's primary focus has been on changing Israel's justice system so he can avoid serving time in prison. https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-chief-warns-netanyahu-that-reservist-protest-refusals-could-spread-in-military The protests have been massive and have included many reservists. Reportedly thousands were refusing service but I imagine that changed over the weekend.

 

image.thumb.png.0db412fcd2df8ff0147858f721f55d7d.png

Saw a tweet that they have called up 300,000 reserves, though the initial number was 100, 000

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15 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Tell him to take Frank Drebin, the grocery store racist with him.   Good riddance.  Too bad they weren’t at the rave.  

The Ukraine thread goes strong at almost 1500 pages - 95% news, facts and actual discussion. Not sure this one will make double digits thanks to crap like this.

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As part of the Israel counterattack, I hope Israel takes overt steps to destabilize the Iranian regime so that it can be toppled. Rid the world of the Islamic cancer strangling Iran, you will improve the region 100 fold. The Iranian people do not consider Israelis to be their enemy. Being pro-Palestine has the same taint as being a regime supporter in Iran.

 

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1 hour ago, cactusflinthead said:

Rex Beeper you don't have to announce your departure.

Just go if you can't take it any more. Or you could avoid saying shit that gets you negged. Does she neg you every time you post in Oil Barons? The Ticket thread?

But, there's the door if you want to go. 

Gonna make imma scrub the site again? That's so much fun.

He gone 

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Leadership…
 
 
At 11:52 a.m. Eastern, today’s pool reporter for the president, USA Today White House correspondent Francesca Chambers, reported “the White House has called a lid for the day, before the pool call time. We will not be seeing the president today.”
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
At 11:52 a.m. Eastern, today’s pool reporter for the president, USA Today White House correspondent Francesca Chambers, reported “the White House has called a lid for the day, before the pool call time. We will not be seeing the president today.”
 

It……Depends
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53 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

D7BE977B-0526-4DC4-8423-EF650CABADF3.png

D3A4A7DC-0003-4EFB-A20E-7188DF122872.png

I read Side by Side - parallel history of Israel/Palestine. I wanted to learn the Pals side of the story. Truly, the Palestinians missed every opportunity to have dignity of having their own state by boycotting and outright refusing to participate with the Peel Commission to develop a sensible partition plan. Same thing happened when the Brits punted to the UN. Guess what, if one side is willing to sit at the table to hammer out a deal and another side refuses to participate, the reasonable party will have a better outcome. Look at those maps. They could have had a majority of the land and an economic union with a more educated and successful country that could have benefited both. Refusal to accept reality and a lack of pragmatism are huge reasons why we are here. 
image.jpeg.de20c6cd7eb3575ee165a36d27aeb05d.jpeg

 

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25 minutes ago, immamac said:

 We get it this is serious and a lot of people are going to die and it's a terrible situation that's been brewing for the better part of a century that is unfortunately coming to a head with no clean or really any resolution in sight except a lot of pain and suffering for a lot of people. 

Are we talking about the Big 12 conference champ rematch between UT and OU, or are we talking about the Middle East?

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39 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Rumors are training took place in Africa. I would think Iran is more likely since the UN is all over the Sahel. 

I found a good article yesterday (no idea if linked here, twitter, or where at this point) but it primarily discussed the intelligence failure and noted that a fake settlement had been built for training in Gaza (and no doubt Israel had to have been aware of it) but they didn't see it as a real thread.  Just thought it was typical radical blustering/provocative nonsense.  Basically just how asleep at the wheel the entire intelligence community was (and basically the country itself, dealing with all its internal issues) and thinking the $$ and jobs were keeping things in check. 

I mean hopefully a wake up call at home with similar infighting the past 7+ years.

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