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2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.


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Posted
Just now, SydneyCarton said:

But when has that ever ended well for a majority of the people?

Apparently.  The Native Americans seemed to like it.

And when I lived in the Czech Republic, many of the older folks pined for the days of communism.

Posted
3 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Jennifer Lawrence Reaction GIF

Don't blame us for your shitty choices. Sucks you have to find out this way. I actually mean that. 

1 minute ago, DixonHur said:

Apparently.  The Native Americans seemed to like it.

And when I lived in the Czech Republic, many of the older folks pined for the days of communism.

They never had communism. Again, also idiots. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, mdmost said:

Old people tend to get mad and lash out when you tell them it's finally time to go to the old folk's home. 

I’ve been there with my grandmother and aunt. I don’t want to use the word fortunate but with my grandmother’s situation my grandfather passed before her. She was able to still live at home and my aunt and uncle lived just down the road. When she started declining she fought any discussion for the next stages of her life. One day she got on a ladder and fell and broke her arm which gave us the ability to put her “in the home” to recover while she thought it was temporary. By the time a month had passed she had adjusted in the Alzheimer’s home. 

No one knows what is wrong with Joe but I found his defiance to take a simple fucking MOCA test concerning. It’s a simple test. It should be given to anyone over 65 to make sure they don’t have dementia or Alzheimer’s or a host of other things that present that way. There are treatments and trials and radical diet changes to slow the spread of it and to help the person. I pray privately that he has been diagnosed and they are treating him bc he is a person. First and foremost. My 65 year old aunt failed that MOCA test badly. And the decline after the diagnosis was swift and merciless. 

Posted
3 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Apparently.  The Native Americans seemed to like it.

And when I lived in the Czech Republic, many of the older folks pined for the days of communism.

So why don’t you vote for Trump?

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

They never had communism. Again, also idiots. 

The Czechs would be shocked to learn they weren't living under communism.

You should head over there post haste to let them know.

1 minute ago, SydneyCarton said:

So why don’t you vote for Trump?

Excuse Me What GIF by Bounce

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

I’m sure it won’t hurt the minority vote if Kamala is forced out in favor of candidate x. 

The what vote? The “minority” vote? 
 

 

30 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

They should be consolidating those factions not working to deepen the divide. Which is all a “trial by combat” will do. 

Who is “they?” Oh and while you’re at it, explain how Donald Trump basically beating the financial establishment and foreign policy factions of his party into submission dampened turnout, or any other example of intra party factional combat that hurt turnout. Even the much vilified Bernie Bros showed up and voted for Hillary in 2016.

 

30 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

I can’t believe anyone thinks it would do anything helpful. It’s a disaster of an idea. Especially for a party that already struggles to hold its coalitions together. 
It’s like the Bernie bros never happened

because it didnt. fewer Bernie voters flipped to Trump than Clinton voters to McCain or Kashich voters to Clinton, to wit:

It’s a perennial question whether supporters of losing primary candidates will vote for their party’s nominee in the general election. So let’s compare the Democratic primary with the Republican primary. In the VOTER Survey, only 3 percent of those supporting Texas Sen. Ted Cruz reported voting for Hillary Clinton, as did 10 percent of Florida Sen. Marco Rubio’s supporters and 32 percent of Ohio Gov. John Kasich’s supporters. So Sanders supporters were about as likely to vote for Trump as Rubio’s supporters were to vote for Clinton, and far less likely than Kasich supporters were to vote for Clinton.

 

Another useful comparison is to 2008, when the question was whether Clinton supporters would vote for Barack Obama or John McCain (R-Ariz.) Based on data from the 2008 Cooperative Campaign Analysis Project, a YouGov survey that also interviewed respondents multiple times during the campaign, 24 percent of people who supported Clinton in the primary as of March 2008 then reported voting for McCain in the general election.

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
Posted
3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

So why don’t you vote for Trump?

Imagine wanting to throw away the system of government that has resulted in the highest standard of living in history because someone like Trump is making you work to keep it. Fucking insanity. 

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Posted
9 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

I certainly don't claim to know what the best form of government is, but there's a book called The Dawn of Everything that talks about various forms over the years.

It turns out that even before the Greeks, our ancestors toyed with democracy in different parts of the world and all chose to go back to some sort of kingship or chiefdom, for various reasons... most notably the lack of accountability, and people working in their own self interest instead of that of people who selected them.

It's been a minute, but I feel like I took something different from that book. Primarily that social and governmental configurations could be fluid within a society, and that often these "kingdoms" were ruled by someone who often only had the power to directly affect those in their immediate sphere. So people could just kind of move away a bit. Not nearly the level of power one would generally think of with a king.

And, at least in the plains tribes, I don't believe chiefs had a whole lot of power to coerce their tribespeople to do anything they didn't want to do l.

Posted
1 minute ago, hookem2010 said:

It's been a minute, but I feel like I took something different from that book. Primarily that social and governmental configurations could be fluid within a society, and that often these "kingdoms" were ruled by someone who often only had the power to directly affect those in their immediate sphere. So people could just kind of move away a bit. Not nearly the level of power one would generally think of with a king.

And, at least in the plains tribes, I don't believe chiefs had a whole lot of power to coerce their tribespeople to do anything they didn't want to do l.

This correct for many of the Native Tribes...but not all.  I didn't mean to insinuate that the leaders were tyrants.  

My choice would be the Canadian tribes that interacted with the French, and considered them to be slaves to their leaders.

I think nation states are the issue no matter how they are governed.

Posted
5 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

The Czechs would be shocked to learn they weren't living under communism.

The Soviets were communists in name only. It was truly a totalitarian dictatorship for most of its life. It was highly class based instead of classless. And the workers controlled absolutely nothing.  

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Posted
Just now, Dahobbs said:

The Soviets were communists in name only. It was truly a totalitarian dictatorship for most of its life. It was highly class based instead of classless. And the workers controlled absolutely nothing.  

Well, you're more than welcome to explain the finer points to them, but they felt like they were taken care of by the state and once "communism" ended many of the working class felt they were worse off.

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Posted
1 minute ago, DixonHur said:

Well, you're more than welcome to explain the finer points to them, but they felt like they were taken care of by the state and once "communism" ended many of the working class felt they were worse off.

We live in a paradise where the state takes care of those who have the means to take care of themselves.

Yay!

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Posted
Just now, closetohumping said:

Top democrat officials letting Biden know that funds may dry up in fall if he don’t dip

Katzneberg allegedly met with Biden in Nevada yesterday before the Covid and told him the money is drying up. And it was bad. K is his buddy. He wasn’t telling him like the politicians to drop out bc they worry about their own ticket. He wasn’t pointing to polls. That don’t mean shit this far out. He was saying we are fucked because there is no more money. 

Posted
2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

If democracy is on the ballot in every election, is it really a democracy? 

Cake or death challenge every four years isn’t much of a participatory system of government. 

Yet we have folks on the board who will give us pedantic takes on the vagaries of communism, but still consider the US a democracy despite the electoral college and citizens united.

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Posted
17 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

Katzneberg allegedly met with Biden in Nevada yesterday before the Covid and told him the money is drying up. And it was bad. K is his buddy. He wasn’t telling him like the politicians to drop out bc they worry about their own ticket. He wasn’t pointing to polls. That don’t mean shit this far out. He was saying we are fucked because there is no more money. 

Don is up five points. Not insurmountable but unprecedented for him

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Yet we have folks on the board who will give us pedantic takes on the vagaries of communism, but still consider the US a democracy despite the electoral college and citizens united.

I'm sorry I tried to educate you. My bad. 

1 minute ago, immamac said:

Is this a fucking joke? Why the fuck would zelensky talk to trump? 

He sees the same polls as the rest of us. He has his country to think about. 

Edited by Dahobbs
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Posted
7 minutes ago, immamac said:

Is this a fucking joke? Why the fuck would zelensky talk to trump? 

You wouldn’t plead your case if you were Zelensky on the off chance that Trump Is elected? You wouldn’t try to talk to him? Open a dialogue?
 

We can hate Trump all we want but if he is elected it doesn’t help Zelensky to not have some kind of dialogue with Trump just in case. other leaders around the world are watching all this and thinking the same. Many I’m sure are talking to or have talked to Kamala too. Or will be talking to whomever comes out of the convention as nominee for President. You have to open a dialogue and plead your case. I don’t see that as Zelensky doing something wrong. Other world leaders already have a dialogue with Trump bc he was President or bc he was shot. 

Posted
1 minute ago, gmr548 said:

It would be malpractice for him not to try to be prepared for a Trump administration.

Hes fucked if Trump gets elected. Does he just want to confirm ahead of time how fucked he is? 

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Posted
1 minute ago, gmr548 said:

It would be malpractice for him not to try to be prepared for a Trump administration.

Can't we just send him some lube? Should prepare him well enough.

Posted
Just now, immamac said:

Hes fucked if Trump gets elected. Does he just want to confirm ahead of time how fucked he is? 

I mean, yeah, he should be doing due diligence.

Posted
1 minute ago, aggie08 said:

Can't we just send him some lube? Should prepare him well enough.

The republicans in the House would block any aid package, particularly lube.

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Posted
1 minute ago, dcbc said:

The republicans in the House would block any aid package, particularly lube.

It’s Trumpian or Dotardian party and most of them will do what he tells them to do. Pretty much. Thats my understanding of where Republican Party is, it is his party. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, dcbc said:

The republicans in the House would block any aid package, particularly lube.

All anal sex should be dry, just how our nations founders intended!

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Posted
6 minutes ago, immamac said:

Hes fucked if Trump gets elected. Does he just want to confirm ahead of time how fucked he is? 

He probably wants to get a commitment of some kind on record. Then he'll know where he stands and which actual allies he can rely on. It will probably be most of NATO outside of our dipshit country. 

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I'm sorry I tried to educate you. My bad. 

You're missing the point.  

What you're doing is exactly what's wrong with the messaging of Democratic party. 

You can't appeal to people using pedantic, and academic arguments.  What people FEEL is more important than trying to make them understand minute details.

The Czech people who lived under "communism", don't care about the dictionary definition.  They care about their experience.  And for many of the older working class, they felt more secure before the wall fell.  The younger generation is different, but all they've known is capitalism and democracy.

Here, a lot of working class people feel like things are going in the wrong direction... Immigration, higher prices, etc  They're not interested in a Harvard economist explaining that the inflation is not Biden's fault, or that immigration is a net positive to the economy, or that they live in the richest country on earth.  

That's not their experience, so they gravitate to the party speaking to them on their level.

You might not like that, but the sooner you and the Democratic party realize that, the better.

Obama and Bill Clinton got that, so not sure why the Dems went back to their old tricks in 2016.

 

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Posted
6 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

You're missing the point.  

What you're doing is exactly what's wrong with the messaging of Democratic party. 

You can't appeal to people using pedantic, and academic arguments.  What people FEEL is more important than trying to make them understand minute details.

The Czech people who lived under "communism", don't care about the dictionary definition.  They care about their experience.  And for many of the older working class, they felt more secure before the wall fell.  The younger generation is different, but all they've known is capitalism and democracy.

Here, a lot of working class people feel like things are going in the wrong direction... Immigration, higher prices, etc  They're not interested in a Harvard economist explaining that the inflation is not Biden's fault, or that immigration is a net positive to the economy, or that they live in the richest country on earth.  

That's not their experience, so they gravitate to the party speaking to them on their level.

You might not like that, but the sooner you and the Democratic party realize that, the better.

Obama and Bill Clinton got that, so not sure why the Dems went back to their old tricks in 2016.

 

1) I wasn't talking to the old Czech couple, I was talking to you. 

2) you've said independents like yourself don't vote based on emotion. Your story isnt consistent. 

3) I'm not a democrat. 

But, yes. I get propaganda works. People like that Czech couple will believe things that aren't true. They will long for a past that didn't really exist (e.g., the better 50s that conservatives always yearn for). 

As to appealing to emotion, I tried to point out that is exactly why the Democrats should rally around Biden. Your belief that some other candidate will somehow grab the mythical rational independents is nonsense. The democrats just need to find one person and rally around them. It literally doesn't matter who that person is so far as they all tell the same story, over and over and over. My belief is that Biden was the best chance for them to do that. They fucked that. Maybe they can rally around Harris, but I doubt it. 

Posted

WTF does this mean? I’ve heard rumors about Biden’s depo audio that (1) the audio is debate sounding awful and (2) that the audio doesn’t match the transcripts which were published back in March by WaPo. I chalked all that up to conspiracy theory bullshit and just rumors. This doesn’t sound very good. Not at all. I don’t know how credible people here find Politico or the person Kyle that tweeted this. Just sharing it. 

Posted
46 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

You're missing the point.  

What you're doing is exactly what's wrong with the messaging of Democratic party. 

You can't appeal to people using pedantic, and academic arguments.  What people FEEL is more important than trying to make them understand minute details.

The Czech people who lived under "communism", don't care about the dictionary definition.  They care about their experience.  And for many of the older working class, they felt more secure before the wall fell.  The younger generation is different, but all they've known is capitalism and democracy.

Here, a lot of working class people feel like things are going in the wrong direction... Immigration, higher prices, etc  They're not interested in a Harvard economist explaining that the inflation is not Biden's fault, or that immigration is a net positive to the economy, or that they live in the richest country on earth.  

That's not their experience, so they gravitate to the party speaking to them on their level.

You might not like that, but the sooner you and the Democratic party realize that, the better.

Obama and Bill Clinton got that, so not sure why the Dems went back to their old tricks in 2016.

 

Wife grew up in communism (pics here somewhere).  Totally agree.  ‘Freedom!!!’ only resonates w certain people. 

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Posted
30 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

1) I wasn't talking to the old Czech couple, I was talking to you. 

2) you've said independents like yourself don't vote based on emotion. Your story isnt consistent. 

3) I'm not a democrat. 

But, yes. I get propaganda works. People like that Czech couple will believe things that aren't true. They will long for a past that didn't really exist (e.g., the better 50s that conservatives always yearn for). 

As to appealing to emotion, I tried to point out that is exactly why the Democrats should rally around Biden. Your belief that some other candidate will somehow grab the mythical rational independents is nonsense. The democrats just need to find one person and rally around them. It literally doesn't matter who that person is so far as they all tell the same story, over and over and over. My belief is that Biden was the best chance for them to do that. They fucked that. Maybe they can rally around Harris, but I doubt it. 

‘Long for a past that didn’t exist’ is total bullshit.  A lot of communists had it better then vs now.  GTFO

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

‘Long for a past that didn’t exist’ is total bullshit.  A lot of communists had it better then vs now.  GTFO

No it isnt. Certain individuals may have had it better. But Czechs as a whole are in a much better position now. I'm not addressing other nations as some of them were legitimately better off (economically at least) in a stable Soviet Union. 

Edited by Dahobbs
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Posted
2 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Your friends are liars. They are also assholes, morons, fascists, or a combination of the three. You have shitty people for friends. Deal with it. 

All of Dahobbs’s friends and family are ideologically aligned with him. Hahahah. Give me a fucking break and grow up. Normal people avoid talking about politics in a social setting. Your neighbor might be a closet fascist and you wouldn’t know.

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

No it isnt. Certain individuals may have had it better. But Czechs as a whole are in a much better position now. I'm not addressing other nations as some of them were legitimately better off (economically at least) in a stable Soviet Union. 

Cool.  Czechs are far ahead of Slovaks and Russians as far as then vs now.  Have a few hundred family members who would agree.  

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Posted
1 minute ago, Macklemore said:

All of Dahobbs’s friends and family are ideologically aligned with him. Hahahah. Give me a fucking break and grow up. Normal people avoid talking about politics in a social setting. Your neighbor might be a closet fascist and you wouldn’t know.

I didn't say I didn't also have some ignorant people for friends. But I know that is what they are. I'm not going to pretend they are anything else. 

Posted
1 minute ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Cool.  Czechs are far ahead of Slovaks and Russians as far as then vs now.  Have a few hundred family members who would agree.  

Yeah, other nations are in a totally different situation. Being part of a super power has its benefits. 



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