Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted
Just now, jimmyjazz said:

You were the one who implied all liberals are scared of Muslims.  Maybe go take a writing course at some school other than Texas Tech.

By the way, those anecdotes included growing up around dozens of Muslims my family would host when they came to the US to attend the engineering school my dad taught at.  They would break bread with us, stay with us, obviously take courses from my father, etc.  I learned about Lebanon, Iraq, Iran etc. in a very real manner, and without question my family was not an outlier.  It was a very common thing for university employees to bring those immigrant students into their households (as well as students from other parts of the world, primarily Asia).  So MY experience is that you're full of shit.

Brother, your experience is most certainly an outlier among the American populace. I'm not sure how you can't see that. You grew up with very privileged in a way the vast majority of Americans do not. Period. I'm not saying that's a bad thing at all, mind you, you should feel very fortunate to have experience such a broad array of people from various cultures from a young age. 

I'm not telling you that YOU are scared of Muslims, I'm telling you that a majority of Americans are and that the majority of liberals certainly have not elevated themselves above that to any appreciable degree. Seriously, read the book I linked you. I think you would enjoy it and find it illuminating.

Posted
1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

I mean yeah, all religious fundamentalism has this problem, including orthodox Judaism. Read about Kach and Baruch Goldstein sometime. That's not something you would ever learn about in Western curricula.

But most observers of Judaism confine criticism of the Orthodox to that relatively small sect of the faith, so the criticism is more principled and limited.  Fundamentalism in Christianity is more pervasive and even moreso in Islam.  As legit as the criticism is, the baby gets thrown out with the bathwater.

One thing, though, Judaism has almost always been a minority religion and lacked power.  So its excesses have been somewhat limited and criticism considered unwarranted or unjustifiable, just like a lot of legitimate criticism of minority groups.  

  • Like 2
Posted

It seems to me that the primary bias that most American have, if they have one, is that they think of all Muslims as fundamentalist.  Whereas they are willing to parse the hardshell and softshell Christians and make allowances to Christians who aren't fundamentalists, they don't give Muslims the same leeway, ant throw them all into one big batch.  That's the problem.

The other problem is conflating thoughts about religious beliefs with global politics. 

  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Like 1
Posted

I think Fantana is somewhat conflating New York Democrats with “liberals.” Yeah, a lot of liberals have some degree of anti-Muslim bias just because for most it’s still an “other” that they don’t have much experience with, but there’s nothing that your ordinary liberal loves more than to think they’re multicultural and tolerant so that limits it quite a bit. 
 

But a lot of New York Dems aren’t even liberal, they’re conservatives who happen to be Dems because in New York that’s the only real game in town. That leads to some confusion with New York liberal politicians as well who cater for those conservatives’ votes (I’m thinking Gillibrand here), but the real anti Muslim shit in New York isn’t coming from liberals.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
2 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

It seems to me that the primary bias that most American have, if they have one, is that they think of all Muslims as fundamentalist.  Whereas they are willing to parse the hardshell and softshell Christians and make allowances to Christians who aren't fundamentalists, they don't give Muslims the same leeway, ant throw them all into one big batch.  That's the problem.

The other problem is conflating thoughts about religious beliefs with global politics. 

Some truth to this, for sure.  But in the case of both Christians and Muslims, the fundamentalists seek and get more attention than the more devout and principled adherents.  And potentially comprise a larger percentage of both religions.

And, of course, one of the practical, if not theological, aspects of fundamentalism is a willingness to inject the religion into politics.  Fundamentalism often IS politics.

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 2
Posted
13 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I think Fantana is somewhat conflating New York Democrats with “liberals.” Yeah, a lot of liberals have some degree of anti-Muslim bias just because for most it’s still an “other” that they don’t have much experience with, but there’s nothing that your ordinary liberal loves more than to think they’re multicultural and tolerant so that limits it quite a bit. 
 

But a lot of New York Dems aren’t even liberal, they’re conservatives who happen to be Dems because in New York that’s the only real game in town. That leads to some confusion with New York liberal politicians as well who cater for those conservatives’ votes (I’m thinking Gillibrand here), but the real anti Muslim shit in New York isn’t coming from liberals.

I that’s a little charitable and this is more of a progressive versus liberal “everyone to the right of me is a fascist” thing. 

Posted
6 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

It seems to me that the primary bias that most American have, if they have one, is that they think of all Muslims as fundamentalist.  Whereas they are willing to parse the hardshell and softshell Christians and make allowances to Christians who aren't fundamentalists, they don't give Muslims the same leeway, ant throw them all into one big batch.  That's the problem.

The other problem is conflating thoughts about religious beliefs with global politics. 

Yeah I think this is a fair assessment.

5 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I think Fantana is somewhat conflating New York Democrats with “liberals.” Yeah, a lot of liberals have some degree of anti-Muslim bias just because for most it’s still an “other” that they don’t have much experience with, but there’s nothing that your ordinary liberal loves more than to think they’re multicultural and tolerant so that limits it quite a bit. 
 

But a lot of New York Dems aren’t even liberal, they’re conservatives who happen to be Dems because in New York that’s the only real game in town. That leads to some confusion with New York liberal politicians as well who cater for those conservatives’ votes (I’m thinking Gillibrand here), but the real anti Muslim shit in New York isn’t coming from liberals.

As is this.

Look, I'm not trying to shit on anyone here. Even though I am frequently abrasive, my main beef is with "liberal" politicians, not your average, every day liberal, and sometimes I am bad about conflating the two.

People's beliefs are complex and often contradictory (myself included), and I am super sensitive to anti-Muslim rhetoric specifically because of hate I have personally seen directed at people I care about far too often.

So when I see card-carrying liberals describe someone like Mamdani as "dangerous", I hope you can understand why my hackles get raised, so to speak.

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 2
Posted

Speaking of Trump's America. Is it not just WILD the whipsaw and whiplash since January? It's been 6 months and feels like 2 years worth of events and rollercoasters.

The fact that I woke up this week and our stock market is at an all time high just 3 months after tanking it with self-imposed tariff-sized gunshot wounds to tank the market, is absolutely nuts.

Posted
Just now, Vegas64 said:

Speaking of Trump's America. Is it not just WILD the whipsaw and whiplash since January? It's been 6 months and feels like 2 years worth of events and rollercoasters.

The fact that I woke up this week and our stock market is at an all time high just 3 months after tanking it with self-imposed tariff-sized gunshot wounds to tank the market, is absolutely nuts.

I'm so pissed about all of it, man. I'm not one of those people that can easily unplug myself from the news, so it is just....a lot.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
7 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Yeah I think this is a fair assessment.

As is this.

Look, I'm not trying to shit on anyone here. Even though I am frequently abrasive, my main beef is with "liberal" politicians, not your average, every day liberal, and sometimes I am bad about conflating the two.

People's beliefs are complex and often contradictory (myself included), and I am super sensitive to anti-Muslim rhetoric specifically because of hate I have personally seen directed at people I care about far too often.

So when I see card-carrying liberals describe someone like Mamdani as "dangerous", I hope you can understand why my hackles get raised, so to speak.

That's fair. Personally I want to see Gillibrand and others like her loaded up into a Space X rocket, both for being bigots and just for their pure stupidity.

Posted
1 hour ago, Pancho said:

image.thumb.png.d2bea037ab06883dfa98160ce5640486.png

I don't like that chart, because it's actually MUCH worse than that.  The "Homeland Security" budget includes much more than ICE.  As I understand it, all "border security" type measures together under Homeland Security will be around $175 billion of our budget.  Look at that chart.  The US "Homeland Security" paramilitary apparatus will be the fucking THIRD LARGEST MILITARY BUDGET ON THE PLANET.

Trump and his minions have created the third largest military force in the world, to be deployed ENTIRELY inside our borders.  If you create an army....and then turn them loose....they WILL find an enemy to fight.  And when it's that big, a few million dudes hanging sheetrock and picking strawberries won't be enough to feed that beast.  That army WILL be coming for more.  Gee, I wonder who it will be turned on?  It's a mystery!

  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Like 1
  • Rage+1 3
Posted
12 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

And it will work.  Because people are fucking uninformed idiots that have no idea how anything works.  

I believe the worst of the Medicare cuts don't phase in until after the 2026 election. GOP is really good at being shitty 

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

https://clip.cafe/gimme-shelter-1970/why-are-fighting/

Mick: Why are we fighting?

In the last few hours, it seems some of us have lost sight of the fact that all of us -- at least those not lost to the horrific MAGA movement -- face one common enemy: Trump and his supporters, who continue to wipe their asses with the US Constitution. This is FDR/America joining forces with Stalin/Soviets to stop the Nazis from taking over the world. We can go back to disliking each other and fighting once this evil is defeated. In the meantime, stop wasting your time and energy on things that do not fucking matter.

Edited by C-Man
  • Hook 'Em 7
  • Like 1
Posted
1 hour ago, Vegas64 said:

I said this in another thread, but Muslims and Christians in a spiritual sense actually have more in common as an Abrahamic religion than either do with Judaism (again, as Abrahamic) in a fundamental sense, despite the closer political and social commonalities between Jews and Christians.

In all three cases, if you are actually "doing the religion correctly" as in, actually living out what the precepts outlined for how to live if you are to call yourself an adherent, to put it coarsely, you are going to necessarily be an extremist IMO.

I think that's the conflict. The conflict with adhering to a prescriptive religion in a secular society and it is, from what I can understand, actually a built-in conflict that is a feature and not a bug.

At its core, religion is a group identity based on its adherents’ collective willingness to believe a particular pile of made-up bullshit. It creates an inherent Us vs. Them dichotomy. And because abandoning any commitment to logic and empirical evidence is a prerequisite, the religious are uniquely manipulable. Laughably childish concepts like “Because God said so” are accepted as legitimate justifications for a lot of fucked up shit. Couple that with pressure or even rules requiring blind faith, and religion is a recipe for bloodshed and general strife.

Tl;dr: getting people to bond over mutual belief in fairy tales is dangerous shit.

  • Hook 'Em 5
  • Like 3
  • Fuck Around and Find Out 1
Posted
9 minutes ago, South Austin said:

How's yours coming along?  At the 10,000 word mark yet?

Having a bit of writer's block.  Trying to figure out how to fit in the phrase "extravagant, decadent, guilty pleasure . . . tempered with a nagging feeling of violation."

Posted
24 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

A clique of House Freedom Caucus members walked out of the White House in the early afternoon, their attitudes seemingly adjusted. Representative Tim Burchett, Republican of Tennessee, was one of them. He posted a video on social media gushing about the two-hour experience he’d just had with his president.  “The president was wonderful, as always,” Mr. Burchett said in the video. “Informative, funny, he told me he likes seeing me on TV, which was kind of cool.” Representative Byron Donalds, Republican of Florida, is shown in the video, too. “Did you show them what he signed for you?” Mr. Donalds asks Mr. Burchett. “Yeah, he signed a bunch of stuff,” Mr. Burchett said. “It’s cool.”  Mr. Burchett told The New York Times later on that his name had been misspelled on the placard placed in front of his chair for the Cabinet Room meeting (it was missing an “r”) so the president scribbled in the letter, signed both sides of the card and gave it to him as a souvenir. Mr. Burchett said the president also loaded up the son of Representative Chip Roy, Republican of Texas, with souvenirs.

This is the epitome of how fucked we are as a country. This is a horrible bill and I'm totally opposed to it,  but I got an autograph so I'm going to vote for it and fuck those it will hurt. I've said before, I truly wished I believed Satan existed because dotard making a deal with him is the only sensible explanation. 

  • Hook 'Em 5
  • Like 2
Posted
2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Nobody ever claimed the "left of center" voting block is homogeneous.  There are always outliers.  To imply that all liberals are scared of Muslims is fucking ridiculous, full stop.

His comment was “Muslims scare liberals.” A true statement, IMO. If, elsewhere he broadened that to all liberals, that would be an untrue statement.

There are more than outliers. Remember polling in the 60s that showed a rapid flip in the percentage of white folks who were wary of black families moving into their neighborhood? I know that polling has come up on this or predecessor boards. We know there’s a strong element of social pressure behind that polling. Suddenly admitting you’re a racist was uncouth.

I think we’re still in that moment on most things LGBTQ+. It’s unfortunate, but many people in their 40s and 50s who grew up using homosexual epithets didn’t expel their bigotry becuase of social pressure. Sure, you can back them down if they drop a slur or tell a terrible joke, but there are liberals not repulsed by Dan Patrick’s bathroom fascination.

Humanism moves ahead of the populace. Obergefell dropped and new battle lines were formed, seemingly the next day. That’s a good thing. We need to be pushed to treat more and more people as human. But for electoral politics, that tendency leaves left-leaning parties very vulnerable.

W/r/t Muslims, I will say I have more limited anecdotal data. But, every one of the guys I’m talking about did openly say quite inappropriate things about Tlaib and Omar. Like I said, I don’t view them as particularly good people. But a big tent needs shitheels, too. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
1 minute ago, softlynow said:

His comment was “Muslims scare liberals.” A true statement, IMO. If, elsewhere he broadened that to all liberals, that would be an untrue statement.

There are more than outliers. Remember polling in the 60s that showed a rapid flip in the percentage of white folks who were wary of black families moving into their neighborhood? I know that polling has come up on this or predecessor boards. We know there’s a strong element of social pressure behind that polling. Suddenly admitting you’re a racist was uncouth.

I think we’re still in that moment on most things LGBTQ+. It’s unfortunate, but many people in their 40s and 50s who grew up using homosexual epithets didn’t expel their bigotry becuase of social pressure. Sure, you can back them down if they drop a slur or tell a terrible joke, but there are liberals not repulsed by Dan Patrick’s bathroom fascination.

Humanism moves ahead of the populace. Obergefell dropped and new battle lines were formed, seemingly the next day. That’s a good thing. We need to be pushed to treat more and more people as human. But for electoral politics, that tendency leaves left-leaning parties very vulnerable.

W/r/t Muslims, I will say I have more limited anecdotal data. But, every one of the guys I’m talking about did openly say quite inappropriate things about Tlaib and Omar. Like I said, I don’t view them as particularly good people. But a big tent needs shitheels, too. 

And what is needed to beat back this MAGA movement that will destroy America as we know it is a big fucking tent. Because Dotard's people are not going to just give this away in next years's mid-terms. They're in it to win it. Many of them have done or are doing things that deserve them being put against the wall when the merry-go-round stops but I'm sure non-MAGA will chicken out at the end and do what Charlie Wilson said about the US financing the Afghans' war with the Soviets: "... and then we fucked up the end game."

Posted
17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Having a bit of writer's block.  Trying to figure out how to fit in the phrase "extravagant, decadent, guilty pleasure . . . tempered with a nagging feeling of violation."

They say a picture is worth a thousand words.  On second thought . . . . 

Posted
10 minutes ago, softlynow said:

His comment was “Muslims scare liberals.” A true statement, IMO. If, elsewhere he broadened that to all liberals, that would be an untrue statement.

That's where we differ -- I don't see that statement as anything but all-encompassing.  Broad brushes piss me off.  

Posted
4 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Hey you dipshits.  Take it to another thread.  JFC.

The muslim talk?

Or the flowery prose about anal violation?

Or the Daddario pics?

You gotta be specific about which thread derail you're bitching about around here.

  • Haha 5
Posted
5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

That's where we differ -- I don't see that statement as anything but all-encompassing.  Broad brushes piss me off.  

That's fair. I didn't mean it that way. Let's leave it there and let this thread get back on track.

  • Hook 'Em 2
Posted
32 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Having a bit of writer's block.  Trying to figure out how to fit in the phrase "extravagant, decadent, guilty pleasure . . . tempered with a nagging feeling of violation."

This is where ai really shows its value

Posted
So maybe the stock market isn’t the whole economy after all and universal tariffs are a horribly stupid idea that’s weakening our dollar and fucking the job market + any manufacturing company 

Obviously the solution is more tax cuts for the rich, and more tariffs.
Posted
1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

So when I see card-carrying liberals describe someone like Mamdani as "dangerous", I hope you can understand why my hackles get raised, so to speak.

Haven't seen anything that would warrant that characterization.  He's swinging for the fences in terms of NYC affordability.  Sounds pretty smart to me.   

So, he's more antagonistic towards Israel than I am?  So are most people.  He comes across as the guy who was slightly more liberal than one when one was in undergrad.

 

Posted
2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Maybe go take a writing course at some school other than Texas Tech.

2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

By the way, those anecdotes included growing up around dozens of Muslims my family would host when they came to the US to attend the engineering school my dad taught at.

...

Posted
Just now, jimmyjazz said:

Do you have a point?

Yeah.  

It was funny when you made fun of his education, specifically his writing skills, then ended your very next sentence in a preposition like an uneducated rtard. 

Posted
1 hour ago, South Austin said:

 

IMG_0983.jpeg

While NY is a blue state, and the political spin off from the City’s mayoral election is unlikely to change that, the resulting purity tests are not a good thing for the rest of the country. Dems should want the votes of everyone, including from people who are scared of Muslims, as well as those who are sexually attracted to the lovely woman in the picture. 

Posted
4 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Yeah.  

It was funny when you made fun of his education, specifically his writing skills, then ended your very next sentence in a preposition like an uneducated rtard. 

I don’t think your sentence above makes you out to be the next Shakespeare.

  • Hook 'Em 1


×
×
  • Create New...