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2 hours ago, Pancho said:

Misinformation/disinformation…works

literally just the attack ads played ad nauseum were believed, simply because they were repeated enough.

Trump using the Goebbels playbook to great effect

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IMG_2344.jpeg

3 hours ago, Goofyboy said:


Thanks for the tax cut. We really didnt need it.

And some twats are worried about overtaxing people that make a million a year, to the tune of 36k.

For the politically ignorant, what is the best source to track politicians policies, laws, and their promises, or word, in implementing these policies and laws?

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2 hours ago, Enemy07 said:

For the politically ignorant, what is the best source to track politicians policies, laws, and their promises, or word, in implementing these policies and laws?

surlyhorns.com

34 minutes ago, Horn Dog said:

surlyhorns.com

 

 

Correct!  It's great for policies, laws, and promises, but not so great for election predictions.  

 

 
 
Correct!  It's great for policies, laws, and promises, but not so great for election predictions.  
 

Might need to wear blublockers nexts time.
Well I’ve been assured repeatedly over the last week there will be no imports due to tariffs.  So 8d chess?

Who assured you of that? Anyone stating that is basically saying that the tariffs will work. That’s the point of them. People criticizing the tariffs do so based on the rationale that things will cost more.
Did someone say imports?
 

WTF? This timeline is so confusing.
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I just spent 2.5 days in Vegas and I can tell you now, I completely understand how this happened. We are very insulated in Austin by an intelligent, plugged in, and well-meaning population. This was…not that. 

11 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I just spent 2.5 days in Vegas and I can tell you now, I completely understand how this happened. We are very insulated in Austin by an intelligent, plugged in, and well-meaning population. This was…not that. 

Let’s not start jerking each other off. Austin’s municipal government would say otherwise.

13 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I just spent 2.5 days in Vegas and I can tell you now, I completely understand how this happened. We are very insulated in Austin by an intelligent, plugged in, and well-meaning population. This was…not that. 

Scratch SF and insert Austin and you’re on the way to self realization.

san francisco fart sniffing GIF by South Park

Just now, Incredulity said:

Scratch SF and insert Austin and you’re on the way to self realization.

san francisco fart sniffing GIF by South Park

Well, you weren’t included in that. 

Just now, Biff Tannen said:

Well, you weren’t included in that. 

It’s hilarious to watch you bump right up to reality, then reeeee right back to lemming status.  Keep on keeping on.

18 hours ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

So how far past the point of Idiocracy have we made it now?

Yea. The only analysis I hear is on NPR when I'm driving. It's all old paradigm that's been quoted here. No exploration of powerful new factors:

  • Christian Nationalism
  • Xenophobia/Racial intolerance
  • Character of candidate and what it says about electorate
  • Lies being believed such as
    • The absurdity of children getting sex change operations at school. 
    • Haitians eating pets.
    • The poor shape of the economy.

 

The last one is probably the most profound issue. There is no good faith on one side. Analysts are content to discuss the perception of the electorate without getting into it being profoundly incorrect and why.

I just smirk and shake my head these days. I'm emotionally detached. 

3 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

There is no good faith on one side. Analysts are content to discuss the perception of the electorate without getting into it being profoundly incorrect and why.

But they aren’t incorrect. Their perception isn’t wrong. They are correctly perceiving an economy that is unfair, inequitable and distorted. Unfortunately Democrats have lost the stomach for the politics of class, and Republicans filled the void, and the media doesn’t have the vocabulary or incentives to frame the issue that way.

25 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I just spent 2.5 days in Vegas and I can tell you now, I completely understand how this happened. We are very insulated in Austin by an intelligent, plugged in, and well-meaning population. This was…not that. 

I mean, I told everyone who was touting the whole not many Trump yard signs thing that in my neck of the woods it was twice as intense.

Just now, Bozo_Casanova said:

But they aren’t incorrect. Their perception isn’t wrong. They are correctly perceiving an economy that is unfair, inequitable and distorted. Unfortunately Democrats have lost the stomach for the politics of class, and Republicans filled the void, and the media doesn’t have the vocabulary or incentives to frame the issue that way.

Accurate

12 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Yea. The only analysis I hear is on NPR when I'm driving. It's all old paradigm that's been quoted here. No exploration of powerful new factors:

  • Christian Nationalism
  • Xenophobia/Racial intolerance
  • Character of candidate and what it says about electorate
  • Lies being believed such as
    • The absurdity of children getting sex change operations at school. 
    • Haitians eating pets.
    • The poor shape of the economy.

 

The last one is probably the most profound issue. There is no good faith on one side. Analysts are content to discuss the perception of the electorate without getting into it being profoundly incorrect and why.

I just smirk and shake my head these days. I'm emotionally detached. 

That's really it.  We, the surly "liberal cabal" are informed, accurately.  Huge swaths of this nation are not.  They are informed by propaganda and their main analytical tool is their feelings.

For the liberal cabal to understand these election results is nigh unto impossible because it would require us to accept what is untrue.  I suppose we could make a better attempt, as a form of empathy, to understand the feelings that make the hoi polloi want to believe the untruths they are fed, but I don't think that is a positive form of empathy.

3 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

But they aren’t incorrect. Their perception isn’t wrong. They are correctly perceiving an economy that is unfair, inequitable and distorted. Unfortunately Democrats have lost the stomach for the politics of class, and Republicans filled the void, and the media doesn’t have the vocabulary or incentives to frame the issue that way.

The best thing I heard on NPR yesterday was Bernie Sanders making the same point you are. I think it's likely valid for accounting for some of the red shift to give Trump a majority.

Sanders' central point was that Trump, no matter how crazy and dishonest, does present a vision where the problem is illegals and how he will handle it. The Dems do not choose to pick a cause for what is wrong: the unfair economy and the tyranny (my word) of the billionaire class. It was a great 30 minutes. I'm not a Bernie Bro, but I'm impressed.

However, I don't see how you can quote me and suggest that the bullet list I make somehow represents correct perceptions. The embraced lies of Donald Trump are the whole of his success. They're also the hole we are sliding down with an electorate whose majority doesn't mind it.

19 hours ago, gmr548 said:

Jesus fucking Christ.

I'd say this guy's professional career just ended but he'll actually get a raise in the right wing grifting sphere. Kyle Rittenhouse style.

Yeah, what used to end careers now makes them.  All of the societal checks that forced bad people into the shadows are gone.

I wonder how many people nodded along with the Jews Will Not Replace Us march a few years ago.  And I think we're about to find out.

And I expect we'll have the 3/5 Compromise back in place by about Christmas of 2026.  I'm only half kidding.  I don't think much is unthinkable anymore, and I think they'll also find ways to surprise us.

This is gonna be so, so bad.

Edited by TexArcher

But they aren’t incorrect. Their perception isn’t wrong. They are correctly perceiving an economy that is unfair, inequitable and distorted. Unfortunately Democrats have lost the stomach for the politics of class, and Republicans filled the void, and the media doesn’t have the vocabulary or incentives to frame the issue that way.

How do you properly have class politics when a massive group of poor people fight tooth and nail for billionaires and multi millionaires to hoard more and more wealth?
5 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:


How do you properly have class politics when a massive group of poor people fight tooth and nail for billionaires and multi millionaires to hoard more and more wealth?

Yeah, good point.  The economy got this way by decades of at best flawed policy (and Democrats were nearly wholly complicit with that) and will take decades to undo with policy changes to which the great unwashed cannot relate (e.g. Liz Warren's ideas).

Seems like the only thing Democrats can do is deke the dummies with things that more directly invoke their feelings, e.g. handouts, while attempting larger scale policy changes to rein in big business.

37 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Sanders' central point was that Trump, no matter how crazy and dishonest, does present a vision where the problem is illegals and how he will handle it. The Dems do not choose to pick a cause for what is wrong: the unfair economy and the tyranny (my word) of the billionaire class. It was a great 30 minutes. I'm not a Bernie Bro, but I'm impressed.

They did choose a cause.  The choice was, “everything is stupendous and the common folk are too stupid to understand how great they are doing”.

18 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:


How do you properly have class politics when a massive group of poor people fight tooth and nail for billionaires and multi millionaires to hoard more and more wealth?

Well it doesn’t seem very mysterious that more poor and working class people stopped voting Democrat and started voting Republican around the same time that Democrats stopped talking to poor and working class people and Republicans started talking to them.

12 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The economy got this way by decades of at best flawed policy (and Democrats were nearly wholly complicit with that) and will take decades to undo with policy changes to which the great unwashed cannot relate (e.g. Liz Warren's ideas).

First, Liz Warren’s ideas are pretty naive. She’s got this lawyer’s notion that we can somehow use regulation to rid the economy of a bunch of widely used products and financial strategies and wind the clock back to how the economy worked in 1965.

Second more importantly however, is that it’s not that the unwashed can’t relate, it’s that they are being talked about rather than talked to. Trump and Bernie address their constituencies directly in words that are clear, immediate and certain, even if nonsensical in Trump’s case.
 

Democrats *refer* to those constituencies, as in “I’m going to create an opportunity economy (whatever the fuck that is) and help the middle class.”

12 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

They did choose a cause.  The choice was, “everything is stupendous and the common folk are too stupid to understand how great they are doing”.

That’s true. One of my wife’s cousins is a big Dem donor. I was talking about some retired teachers saying they were better off financially when Trump was president, and he said “yeah but they are lying, the economy is in great shape. This is about race.”

Edited by Bozo_Casanova

9 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

First, Liz Warren’s ideas are pretty naive. She’s got this lawyer’s notion that we can somehow use regulation to rid the economy of a bunch of widely used products and financial strategies and wind the clock back to how the economy worked in 1965.

Second more importantly however, is that it’s not that the unwashed can’t relate, it’s that they are being talked about rather than talked to. Trump and Bernie address their constituencies directly in words that are clear, immediate and certain, even if nonsensical in Trump’s case.
 

Democrats *refer* to those constituencies, as in “I’m going to create an opportunity economy (whatever the fuck that is) and help the middle class.”

Possibly so.  But she's the only politician making the effort of which I am aware.

Also I can't disagree about "talking about" versus "talking to."  What should they say?  Should it be true?  Should it be something they can deliver on?

The thing about right wing propaganda is that it appeals viscerally, not to the relatively benign self-interest that handouts might, but to the reliable negative emotions of fear, envy and hatred.

Should it be billionaires and billion-dollar businesses have been fucking you raw in the ass without a reach-around and we're going to start fucking them?

Edited by TwiceHorn

21 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

They did choose a cause.  The choice was, “everything is stupendous and the common folk are too stupid to understand how great they are doing”.

 

Well, they aren't wrong is the thing. Again though, I'll reiterate, I'm not a Dem politician trying to win votes, and if the Dem's have to blow smoke up their asses to get votes I'm all for it.

 

The uncomfortable truth that no one wants to admit is we are rapidly approaching the point where there are no more quality of life increases for the middle class. At this point we are down to nibbling at the edges in western society. The US needs universal healthcare and childcare, we are obviously the major outlier there. Other than that, UBI is necessary going forward. Continual incremental improvement in health outcomes and efficiency gains which are in the nice to have category. It's in out best interests to help raise the global living standard as it defuses a lot of conflict. But that's about it. And we are seeing the ennui and lashing out that comes from this with people with no internal sense of purpose.

 

11 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

First, Liz Warren’s ideas are pretty naive. She’s got this lawyer’s notion that we can somehow use regulation to rid the economy of a bunch of widely used products and financial strategies and wind the clock back to how the economy worked in 1965.

Second more importantly however, is that it’s not that the unwashed can’t relate, it’s that they are being talked about rather than talked to. Trump and Bernie address their constituencies directly in words that are clear, immediate and certain, even if nonsensical in Trump’s case.
 

Democrats *refer* to those constituencies, as in “I’m going to create an opportunity economy (whatever the fuck that is) and help the middle class.”

 

I mean, I've said for years that Liz Warren's entire being is defined by a deep psychosis over what happened to her father. It's so transparent. Ironically Steve Bannon is exactly the same. Sorry your dad was a dupe Steve.

17 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I was talking about some retired teachers saying they were better off financially when Trump was president

I also find this sentiment insane. 2018 and more so 2019 were terrible years, 2022 and 2023 were miles better.

32 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

They did choose a cause.  The choice was, “everything is stupendous and the common folk are too stupid to understand how great they are doing”.

Name one thing Donald Trump will do for those common folk.

 

The bullet points for why Dems lost need to be dumbed down a lot. Still giving most voters way too much credit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

32 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Should it be billionaires and billion-dollar businesses have been fucking you raw in the ass without a reach-around and we're going to start fucking them?

Give it a shot.  Not like it could lead to worse results than we saw Nov 5.

11 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Name one thing Donald Trump will do for those common folk.

 

Hurt the most venerable who the common folk blame for their lot in life, look no further than the people who lived in Springfield that were complaining about the Haitians taking all the jobs. 

1 minute ago, mdmost said:

Hurt the most venerable who the common folk blame for their lot in life, look no further than the people who lived in Springfield that were complaining about the Haitians taking all the jobs. 

Funny thing is, I don't think there were many in Springfield actually complaining about anything.

 

27 minutes ago, G650 said:

I also find this sentiment insane. 2018 and more so 2019 were terrible years, 2022 and 2023 were miles better.

For you (and me). Not for most middle class people or people on fixed incomes.

8 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

For you (and me). Not for most middle class people or people on fixed incomes.

Fixed income maybe, the middle class no way.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-allies-migrants-camps-miller-homan-1235168998/

 

TRUMP ALLIES WERE TOLD TO STOP SAYING THEY’LL PUT MIGRANTS IN ‘CAMPS’

“Apparently some people think it makes us look like Nazis,” says a close Trump ally

Quote

Donald Trump’s incoming administration brass wants it made clear: The president-elect is not planning to build a brand new network of “camps” to house the myriad undocumented immigrants who Trump has vowed to round up in what he claims will be “the largest deportation” operation in the “history of our country.”

To be sure, Trump’s migrant expulsion program, if he were to follow through with his plans to deport millions, would require massive new camps — something that Trump’s top policy-hand has explicitly told reporters. But openly describing these camps as “camps” invites supremely negative historical comparisons. 

 

Quote

Some top Trump advisers get so annoyed when the media refers to his publicly detailed immigration-crackdown plans as including “camps” that they’ve cautioned the president-elect’s allies and surrogates to stop using the word “camps” during the current presidential transition, according to two sources familiar with the situation. 

“I have received some guidance to avoid terms, like ‘camps,’ that can be twisted and used against the president, yes,” says one close Trump ally. “Apparently some people think it makes us look like Nazis.”

 

Quote

It wasn’t the news media that came up with the term “camps” to describe the plans for Trump’s new, expanded system of detention facilities for holding immigrants awaiting mass deportations — a network of detention centers that he could potentially call on the U.S. military to help build and operate. It was Team Trump that started describing the future that way.

A year ago, Stephen Miller — Trump’s top immigration adviser, who was recently appointed to serve as deputy chief of staff for policy in his new White House — began publicly outlining his and Trump’s grandest nativist vision for rounding up millions for deportation.

 

Spoiler

At the time, Miller himself was routinely and specifically using the word “camps” to describe what he and his boss wanted the military to build, should they retake power in 2024. “He said it a lot,” says a Trump 2024 official who’s known Miller for years. “If you know Stephen, you know why he didn’t have a problem with it.”

And according to one New York Times story late last year, “Miller said the new camps would likely be built ‘on open land in Texas near the border.’ He said the military would construct them under the authority and control of the Department of Homeland Security. While he cautioned that there were no specific blueprints yet, he said the camps would look professional and similar to other facilities for migrants that have been built near the border.”

Miller wasn’t an official member of the 2024 Trump presidential campaign, though the campaign itself recommended the newspaper speak to Miller for its story on Trump’s immigration plans if he were to win back the presidency. 

And yet, according to two sources with direct knowledge of the matter, the Times article infuriated some of Team Trump’s senior staff, who privately said they believed the reporting made their candidate — the once and future leader of the free world — appear extreme and borderline fascistic, especially on “the concentration camps framing,” a Trump adviser notes.

Months later, Trump, himself, didn’t shut down the idea his administration would put migrants in camps. “I would not rule out anything,” Trump said, when Time magazine asked whether he would build new detention camps. Pressed about Miller’s plan for camps, Trump said: “It’s possible that we’ll do it to an extent but we shouldn’t have to do very much of it, because we’re going to be moving them out as soon as we get to it.”

Today, much of Trump’s government-in-waiting feel strongly about avoiding the optics of saying they’ll be building new migrant camps.

In late October, 60 Minutes asked Trump’s new “border czar,” Tom Homan, to explain what the president-elect’s historic deportation will look like. He specifically brought up the specter of “concentration camps,” and attempted to dismiss the comparison.

“Lemme tell you what it’s not going to be first,” Homan said. “It’s not gonna be a mass sweep of neighborhoods. It’s not gonna be building concentration camps. I’ve read it all. It’s ridiculous.

CBS correspondent Cecilia Vega asked Homan to clarify what Trump’s mass deportation would look like without massive sweeps and concentration camps. He replied, “It’ll be concentrated.” He quickly added, “They’ll be targeted arrests.”

Homan, who previously served in the Obama and Trump administrations, is known as the architect of Trump’s family separation policy. Asked in the 60 Minutes interview for potential alternatives to separating families during deportations, Homan offered: “Families can be deported together.”

 

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