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1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

Unfettered capitalism trends to monopoly.

 
No. That’s a widely held misconception. Market competition in large, mature industries with declining, or  low but stable margins often consolidates around a small number of players as a result of economies of scale and expense capital, until they are disrupted by paradigm shifts and innovation, at which point those large players and industries typically cease to exist. Market competition rarely produces *monopolies* without state intervention.

Monopoly inherently socializes risk, and Capitalism *requires* risk and cost to be fully assumed by private capital. 

However, a small number of players in a consolidated market is an effective monopoly if they are working together. Thats why laws and enforcement of laws against things like collusion, price fixing, and other anti-competitive practices are so important. They  protect the freedom of the market and allow the invisible hand to do its thing. 

55 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

One thing, I think monopoly or monopolization, at least defined somewhat economically (the power to set/control prices), only touches on the dangers of capitalism and corporate power.

Capitalism is the opposite of corporate power. What people call capitalism in this context is not capitalism, but successful rent seeking and regulatory capture.

3 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

 
No. That’s a widely held misconception. Market competition in large, mature industries with declining, or  low but stable margins often consolidates around a small number of players as a result of economies of scale and expense capital, until they are disrupted by paradigm shifts and innovation, at which point those large players and industries typically cease to exist. Market competition rarely produces *monopolies* without state intervention.

Monopoly inherently socializes risk, and Capitalism *requires* risk and cost to be fully assumed by private capital. 

However, a small number of players in a consolidated market is an effective monopoly if they are working together. Thats why laws and enforcement of laws against things like collusion, price fixing, and other anti-competitive practices are so important. They  protect the freedom of the market and allow the invisible hand to do its thing. 

Where does capitalism exist in the absence of a state

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1 minute ago, Bullneck said:

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NOT SO FAST MY FRIEND

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10 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Where does capitalism exist in the absence of a state


Capitalism can’t really exist without various artifacts of state, eg private property and state power to enforce it. 
 

There’s a much longer explanation here beyond the scope of this thread, but a lot of our political discourse revolves around rent seekers and bad actors looking for state support hiding behind the word “capitalism” and people who just don’t want to get fucked over not having the vocabulary or conceptual framework to understand it.

Edited by Bozo_Casanova

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Guess that number includes Lewinsky write-in votes
24 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:


Capitalism can’t really exist without various artifacts of state, eg private property and state power to enforce it. 
 

There’s a much longer explanation here beyond the scope of this thread, but a lot of our political discourse revolves around rent seekers and bad actors looking for state support hiding behind the word “capitalism” and people who just don’t want to get fucked over not having the vocabulary or conceptual framework to understand it.

I think when anyone makes a statement like I did about about unfettered capitalism trending toward monopoly, that statement should be construed with the understanding that everyone expect bad actors to exist and do their best to exploit weaknesses in whatever system of government is set up. It would save a lot of time getting caught up in pedantry 

42 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Capitalism is the opposite of corporate power. What people call capitalism in this context is not capitalism, but successful rent seeking and regulatory capture.

In the interest of full-on pedantry, I think rent-seeking and regulatory capture are symptoms or features of capitalism, whereas the competition and efficient markets features of capitalism are supposed to foreclose or eliminate those things.

28 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

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2 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

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Goddamn, every photo of the Oval Office includes more fucking gold.

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What level of the new meritocracy is this?

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Dems just need to run a bunch of young, attractive, accomplished women who just repeat over and over "I'm a normal mom and I won't cover for pedos"  and that's all she wrote. 

Whoever shutdown Kamala and Walz we’re normals and what theyre doing is weird was a moron. Also, they needed to really chew up Project 2025.

But yeah, the recipe is right there
3 minutes ago, 'stache said:

What level of the new meritocracy is this?

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isn't that DEI?

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11 minutes ago, 'stache said:

What level of the new meritocracy is this?

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"I hit a lot of good shots just to the wrong spots".  Oh yeah.  She's a Trump.

11 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

isn't that DEI?

Was it ana or cred or another chuckle fuck saying DEI was the dems biggest  problem and the Brown Jackson clearly wasn’t qualified etc etc? I’m sure they’ll be here quick to criticize this lack of rabid meritocracy.

Edited by 'stache

2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

I think when anyone makes a statement like I did about about unfettered capitalism trending toward monopoly, that statement should be construed with the understanding that everyone expect bad actors to exist and do their best to exploit weaknesses in whatever system of government is set up. It would save a lot of time getting caught up in pedantry 

I disagree. It’s not pedantry. In the first place, it’s simply incorrect to say that “unfettered capitalism” tends toward monopoly.
But more importantly the kleptocracy relies on linguistic constructs for control, because it allows them to rig the discourse against you. When you call what they are doing “unfettered capitalism,” a meaningless expression which to a layperson sounds like you are saying “letting markets work,” you’ve already lost the argument, because that’s not what’s happening at all. 
 

When a company bribes a president for an exclusive government contract, that’s not “unfettered capitalism.”

A far more accurate statement would be to say that unpunished corruption leads to monopoly. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova

6 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I disagree. It’s not pedantry. In the first place, it’s simply incorrect to say that “unfettered capitalism” tends toward monopoly.
But more importantly the kleptocracy relies on linguistic constructs for control, because it allows them to rig the discourse against you. When you call what they are doing “unfettered capitalism,” a meaningless expression which to a layperson sounds like you are saying “letting markets work,” you’ve already lost the argument, because that’s not what’s happening at all. 
 

When a company bribes a president for an exclusive government contract, that’s not “unfettered capitalism.”

A far more accurate statement would be to say that unpunished corruption leads to monopoly. 

What does the word “unfettered” mean to you?

4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

But it also seems that "corporate" power needs to be viewed from another lens, entirely. 

 

2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Ibad actors ( … ) exist and do their best to exploit weaknesses in whatever system of government is set up. I

Addressing corporate power has to start with Citizens United. Allowing corporations to directly participate in the political arena destroys our foundational belief that all are created equal. Corporations are not necessarily mortal.

1 hour ago, 27-25 said:

"I hit a lot of good shots just to the wrong spots".  Oh yeah.  She's a Trump.

No, if she was a real Trump, she would just tell everyone she shot 7 under par, the best round anyone has ever had, the most beautiful round of golf. Some people were saying 7 under was impossible, but she did it.

3 minutes ago, safe sex said:

She's young; give her time

It's funny because it's true.  

1 hour ago, 27-25 said:

"I hit a lot of good shots just to the wrong spots"

Guess I’ll go ahead and sign up for the senior pga tour 

things i learned in the last 5 minutes lol...

prior to DonJr, Kai's mom dated a Latin Kings gang member and a Saudi prince with family ties to 9/11 😮

DonJr. got a free $100k engagement ring for Kai's mom by agreeing to propose at the jewelery store in front of paparazzi 😆

her parents' wedding was officiated by his aunt who had this to say about her baby brother: "All he wants to do is appeal to his base. He has no principles. None. His goddamned tweeting and lying... oh my god. I'm talking too freely, but you know. The change of stories. The lack of preparation. The lying. Holy shit. It's the phoniness of it all. It's the phoniness and this cruelty. Donald is cruel."

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5 minutes ago, mchookem said:

"All he wants to do is appeal to his base. He has no principles. None. His goddamned tweeting and lying... oh my god. I'm talking too freely, but you know. The change of stories. The lack of preparation. The lying. Holy shit. It's the phoniness of it all. It's the phoniness and this cruelty. Donald is cruel."

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3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

In the interest of full-on pedantry, I think rent-seeking and regulatory capture are symptoms or features of capitalism, whereas the competition and efficient markets features of capitalism are supposed to foreclose or eliminate those things.

Disagree. rent seeking and regulatory capture are the two greatest threats to the economic system capitalism, precisely because they stifle competition in the first place and inhibit efficient price discovery and cost allocation in the second.


And again- it’s not pedantry. The general public and the media has largely been conditioned by propaganda into an Orwellian condition of describing anti-capitalism as capitalism.

So to answer your question, @Sawbonz the phrase “unfettered capitalism” is a sort of oxymoronic irony, like “lawless state.” What we put fetters on and why is the distinction between capitalism and socialism. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

So to answer your question, @Sawbonz the phrase “unfettered capitalism” is a sort of oxymoronic irony, like “lawless state.”

That doesn’t answer my question. My question is what is your definition of unfettered

6 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

That doesn’t answer my question. My question is what is your definition of unfettered

The common meaning- unrestrained or uninhibited. So you can’t have uninhibited capitalism because the economic system we refer to as capitalism (like civilization itself) is a product of social and legal inhibition and restraints.

 

To clarify- I’m not saying capitalism is a legal construct or abstraction because it’s not. But you can’t describe the degree of a thing is allowed to be itself by the extent to which it becomes its own opposite.

Edited by Bozo_Casanova

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

definition of unfettered

What the Capitol Riot Data Download Shows about Social Media ...

2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

The common meaning- unrestrained or uninhibited. So you can’t have uninhibited capitalism because the economic system we refer to as capitalism is a product of social and legal inhibitions and restraint.

Of course you can have unrestrained capitalism if the people in charge of enforcing those restraints choose not to (and in fact actively are tearing down those restraints)

Trump’s plan is to issue tariff checks to voters just before mid terms next year.  It’s probably going to work.

48 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Of course you can have unrestrained capitalism if the people in charge of enforcing those restraints choose not to (and in fact actively are tearing down those restraints)

No, because that makes it not capitalism anymore.
What you are saying is like calling a car-jacking “unrestrained capitalism”  because the gun used to commit the crime was privately owned. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova

57 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

That doesn’t answer my question. My question is what is your definition of unfettered

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1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

No, because that makes it not capitalism anymore.
What you are saying is like calling a car-jacking “unrestrained capitalism”  because the gun used to commit the crime was privately owned. 

I see you are talking in terms of a Utopia. 
 

carry on

The Aggie trooper is going to reflect on his behavior and try to be more tolerant and understanding.

….

Just kidding, he is going to blame the blacks and seek revenge.

10 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:

The Aggie trooper is going to reflect on his behavior and try to be more tolerant and understanding.

….

Just kidding, he is going to blame the blacks and seek revenge.

HE WAS ATTACKED!!!!

The Aggie trooper is going to reflect on his behavior and try to be more tolerant and understanding.

….

Just kidding, he is going to blame the blacks and seek revenge.

That trooper is the perfect encapsulation of this country and state. Pure trash.
And he’ll be lionized as a hero, and will likely have a statue at Pyle Field, the Capitol, or both within a year.
5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


That trooper is the perfect encapsulation of this country and state. Pure trash.
And he’ll be lionized as a hero, and will likely have a statue at Pyle Field, the Capitol, or both within a year.

Attorney General after Paxton.

20 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

I see you are talking in terms of a Utopia. 

No, I’m talking about “capitalism”. You know what “utopia” means. 
 

10 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

HE WAS ATTACKED!!!!

If a citizen deliberately shoulder checked any LEO, they would be charged with assault.

Just now, Bozo_Casanova said:

No, I’m talking about “capitalism”. You know what “utopia” means. 
 

Capitalism?! You’re talking about capitalism?!

12 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

HE WAS ATTACKED!!!!

Good thing the SC players came out quickly. If they had stayed in there for 45 minutes and murdered some kids DPS would have been waiting outside with a swat team. 

3 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Good thing the SC players came out quickly. If they had stayed in there for 45 minutes and murdered some kids DPS would have been waiting outside with the Corps. 

FIFY

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