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Posted

I’m not even than angry at the Arab-Americans who quietly voted for Stein (any Trump voter can EABOD though). I can get that, going in the booth and being confronted with conscience. I’m furious at the activist and protesting class that spent the summer and fall in a self-fellating spree of fart-sniffing indulgence, threats and disorder despite knowing full well who benefited from those images and debates. Wow, you’re telling me that America ran to the right after months of seeing masked assholes screaming in the streets and blocking traffic? Wow, who is could have guessed. How cool it was that you got your air time to whine and show rhe DNC wasn’t a party! 
 

A hearty fuck you to them, most of whom are not directly impacted at all by this either way.  

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Posted
53 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I also didn't say the Dems made them do this. I said they publicly humiliated them, deliberately alienated them and told them "fuck off, we don't need your votes". These are just facts, they happened, and the subsequent response of "Well, we're not going to vote for you I guess" is an understandable one, even if it's ultimately stupid and counterproductive, and meaningless.

Those who voted for Trump or not at all still made their choice.  And, their is zero chance that President Harris would be licking her chops at the prospect of building Harris Tower in Gaza.

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Posted
1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Should there be an attempt to take over the Gaza Strip, the blame would rest ENTIRELY on Donald Trump.  It is not the fault of Democrats that the opposition attempts something they would never even consider.

Do you think I'm saying that Democrats are to blame for what Trump does or is going to do? I'm not saying that at all. I'm simply saying their handling of the Gaza situation disaffected many previously solid D voters. This is backed up by empirical data. It is not an emotional take. At some point, they have to take some responsibility for failing to reach said voters.

Posted
9 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Show your work.

And going to the extreme of "completely cutting off and condemning Israel" as your only alternative to what the Biden admin did is really disingenuous.

You show me yours. I can link to article after article that would call that political suicide. I'm also not entirely sure what you were asking Biden to do. Seemed to me he did quite a bit. But backing out of long term military procurement contracts with the critical ally in the region that has significant political power here would be fucking stupid for many, many reasons. We might as well concede all our influence in the region to Russia and China. 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Do you think I'm saying that Democrats are to blame for what Trump does or is going to do? I'm not saying that at all. I'm simply saying their handling of the Gaza situation disaffected many previously solid D voters. This is backed up by empirical data. It is not an emotional take. At some point, they have to take some responsibility for failing to reach said voters.

Yes. And we are saying those voters are stupid. And we are laughing at those voters for being stupid. You can't stop us. Stop trying. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

the fault of Democrats

I blame the Democrats for

  • lying about Biden's fitness to run for re-election
  • believing they could get away with the farce
  • not having a plan for when the farce was revealed in a historically brutal debate performance
  • replacing Biden too late in the cycle
  • sandbagging the Harris campaign's better instincts
  • protecting Biden from valid criticism of his weakness vs. Netanyahu, which allowed him to continue exhibiting weakness and playing into one of Trump's strongest themes
  • insisting that Harris keep Biden's worst campaign strategists, who thought voters wanted more Liz Cheney than Bernie Sanders
  • putting up basically no resistance to Trump's cabinet picks
  • having no competing narrative on how immigration is actually great
  • across-the-board incompetency

Notice how when Biden was in office he received zero cooperation from any republicans, including the ones in swing districts? Voters do not want performative bipartisanship. They don't care about decorum or the optics of people getting along. They want results. They want improved material conditions. And I bet when it comes to Israel most Americans are either indifferent to or unsupportive of what Netanyahu wants. We should be playing hardball with him, and Biden's failure to do so was a colossal mistake.

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Posted
1 minute ago, chainsaw said:

And I bet when it comes to Israel most Americans are either indifferent to or unsupportive of what Netanyahu wants. We should be playing hardball with him, and Biden's failure to do so was a colossal mistake.

So Trump gets a free pass for getting in bed with Bibi?  Is that where we are?  It's all Biden's fault?

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Posted
Just now, jimmyjazz said:

So Trump gets a free pass for getting in bed with Bibi?  Is that where we are?  It's all Biden's fault?

I blame Trump for his decisions, and I blame the Democrats for allowing him to regain power.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Yes.

Well, you're wrong. I think they made some fatal mistakes in the last year of the Biden administration and during the Harris campaign that cost them the election, but they're certainly not responsible for what Trump does.

Posted

I wonder if there’s a broader lesson here about picking a fight with a foe that’s vastly better equipped for the battle you’re entering into while at the same time behaving in a way that makes it impossible for people to help you. 
 

Probably not.  

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Posted
Just now, chainsaw said:

I blame Trump for his decisions,

Agreed.

Quote

and I blame the Democrats for allowing him to regain power.

That puts the blame in the wrong place.  Democrats overwhelmingly voted for Harris.  Blame subsets of the center and left for staying home, sure, but BLAME THE PEOPLE WHO CAST VOTES FOR TRUMP FIRST for crying out loud.

Occam's Razor is a thing, you know.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:


This.
Fantana so desperately wants to point the finger at “THE DEMS MADE THEM DO IT” so as to absolve them.
Fantana, you still don’t get where I’m coming from: I hate ALL of them. The breathtakingly stupid/vindictive Arab voters, the gullible machismo-ridden Hispanics, the incompetent dem party, the “conservative” voters who let their hatred of others override the obvious deranged insanity of their candidate…and I can go on.
But there is ZERO doubt that the American Arab block either withheld their vote from Harris or purposefully voted for Trump out of stupidity/vindictiveness, helping Trump win. They own everything they get. Including what looks to be the culmination of a campaign of ethnic cleansing that will be the most successful in recent history, at the hands of the guy they helped put into power.
Fuck em. Pain and suffering is what all these assholes voted for, so let’s get on with it. No bitching, eat up.

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Posted
5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Agreed.

That puts the blame in the wrong place.  Democrats overwhelmingly voted for Harris.  Blame subsets of the center and left for staying home, sure, but BLAME THE PEOPLE WHO CAST VOTES FOR TRUMP FIRST for crying out loud.

Occam's Razor is a thing, you know.

When I say I blame the Democrats, I'm not talking about voters. I'm talking about the party's leaders.

Posted

Ok is this another one of his "say something incredibly insane and piss everybody off but ultimately don't do shit" things? Please tell me it is.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Valmy77 said:

Ok is this another one of his "say something incredibly insane and piss everybody off but ultimately don't do shit" things? Please tell me it is.

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Posted
44 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Do you think I'm saying that Democrats are to blame for what Trump does or is going to do? I'm not saying that at all. I'm simply saying their handling of the Gaza situation disaffected many previously solid D voters. This is backed up by empirical data. It is not an emotional take. At some point, they have to take some responsibility for failing to reach said voters.

Well hope those voters enjoy the shit show like the rest of us who actually voted against this bullshit. Fuck em

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Posted

This concept is not new. First time I heard this was from an Arab in the Gulf. We were talking about what to do with Jerusalem, Sarajevo, other cultural cities that many claim. The idea was declare them free cities, international police/miitary, UN Admin, and international investment. He wanted the Emirates to lead. Said Israel would not have objections if they were making money, relations normalized with the Arab nations, and the shit started. I asked him what to do with the people there. "move them" was his response.

So another Trump idea that is not new.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Blotto said:

That's such fucking bullshit. The rhetoric out of the democratic party was consistently more pro Palestine than the rhetoric out of the GQP. It wasn't exactly difficult to suss that out. If you wanted the democratic party to risk losing votes from the Jewish voting block (2.5% of the American pop) to woo the Palestinian voting block (0.05% of the American pop) by agreeing to all their demands, you're even dumber than I thought. I expect a population with so much at stake to vote in a way that best furthers their own prospects. If they cant find it in them to do that THEY CAN GET FUCKED if they are gonna bitch about the results.

It was ALWAYS 100% clear this was going to be the result. You would have to have a sub 70 IQ to not see it. I'm not gloating about it, but i have zero sympathy for a single Palestinian American that had the opportunity to vote Harris and didn't. They can get the fuck out of the country too. not because they are Palestinian or Muslim, but because they are too fucking stupid to have around.

Who's saying that the Dems aren't better than the GOP? God damn man you're preaching to the choir and no one is arguing with you.

Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Who's saying that the Dems aren't better than the GOP? God damn man you're preaching to the choir and no one is arguing with you.

I'm saying the argument that the Dems didnt do enough to woo Palestinian voters (your argument) is fucking bullshit. I'm saying your claims that the dems told Palestinians to fuck off is fucking bullshit. There wasnt just one voting block to worry about. And at some point you have to assume that people arent going to shoot themselves in the foot, dick, and then finally brain. There is no hope for those people, they are too stupid to account for. Fuck em.

Edited by Blotto
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Posted

Speaking purely as an electoral issue, Biden and Harris fucked up on Israel/Palestine after October 7. They did nothing to keep voters who felt that was a key issue on side. Now, there's a lot of dipshit gen Z "leftists" who post on social media about how it's because Dems love genocide, which is stupid as hell. That's not Fantana, though.

Dems fucked this up for the same reason they fuck everything up: they've got no actual understanding of voters so love to commission a hundred focus groups and look at a thousand polls before figuring out their political stance on anything. They're indecisive pussies who love paralysis by analysis. And they drastically misunderstood Bibi and the modern Israeli state. So Biden spent an entire year letting Bibi publicly embarrass him repeatedly while the State Department kept scrambling to pretend that it wasn't as bad as the entire world could see it obviously was.

I don't even necessarily think Biden stopping weapon sales once it became clear Israel didn't give a fuck how many civilians and children it killed would've swung the election; it could've turned off just as many voters who barely voted D (if not more) than they turned away with their cowardice. But what they did was consistent with the image much of the public has of Democrats as feckless pussies who won't fight for anything. And that's an image they've earned through incredibly hard and consistent efforts at being nearly the biggest pussies they could be for several decades.

I can and do blame the voters. I can and do blame the Democrats who fucked it up too. There's no shortage of blame to go around. But if we're lucky enough to still have fair elections in 2 years, we'll both need to persuade a lot of voters to stop treating voting like they're fucking consumers who only need to vote for a candidate if they really really like them, and get Democratic officials and candidates to realize that they've got to deal with the voters who actually exist and not mythological voters they dream up in their heads who might as well be aliens for all they resemble actual people. 

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Posted
12 minutes ago, 'stache said:

No it’s voters like you who demand ideological perfection on every issue that is the problem. I want the party to be further left, by a lot, but I don’t shit on every candidate who isn’t perfectly aligned, I support them without reservation. There is plenty of room for robust debate on the left but support the candidate because we know we’re up against a bunch of people on the other side who don’t give a shit about anything but the R by anyone’s name. Your peanut gallery approach is complete fucking bullshit and a big part of why we keep ending up in this fucking place. 

A "peanut gallery approach" moved the GOP from the party of Bush to the party of Trump. A novel concept, I know, but maybe just maybe we should try refusing to accept weakness from our party. I'm not here to cheer for fucking losers.

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Posted
1 minute ago, chainsaw said:

A "peanut gallery approach" moved the GOP from the party of Bush to the party of Trump. A novel concept, I know, but maybe just maybe we should try refusing to accept weakness from our party. I'm not here to cheer for fucking losers.

We could use a lot more of this fucking attitude. 

Posted
3 minutes ago, Blotto said:

I'm saying the argument that the Dems didnt do enough to woo Palestinian voters (your argument) is fucking bullshit. I'm saying your claims that the dems told Palestinians to fuck off is fucking bullshit.

It's not that they needed to woo Palestinian voters, overall they are an insignificant bloc that can't affect the outcome of an election. They needed to energize their own previously strong voting base and failed to, and the situation in Gaza and the party's response was a strong reason for that, backed up by polling data. Blaming the Palestinian voters for their loss is abject insanity.

Posted
Just now, Blotto said:

I'm saying the argument that the Dems didnt do enough to woo palestinian voters (your argument) is fucking bullshit. 

I'll agree with Brian that they could've done more, at least from the margins.

Going off of memory and what was made public, I think that Kamala only agreed to meet with pro-Palestinian protestors once during a campaign stop in Michigan. It was, however, only behind closed doors. Immediately afterward, she held an event, and a group of protestors (separate from the one that was met with) protested her appearance. I think most of us who were paying attention remember that.

I believe this was also after the DNC, where no Palestinians were seen or heard on stage as if the campaign didn't trust the pro-Palestinian camp from going off script. Now, they may well have had good reasons for not doing so (I, of course, have zero insider knowledge), but that lack of representation at the convention could also be seen as an insult.

Does that excuse sitting home, voting for Trump or Stein, or even sitting out the election? Fuck no! But I do agree that the Kamala campaign could've shown more public displays of affection to, at the very least, not make them feel like wayward outcasts. Sure, it'd be a superficial gesture from the campaign's perspective, but apparently, it really mattered to some of that protest bloc.

Posted

There's more than that, like censuring the only Palestinian congressperson while claiming that criticism of Israel is antisemitism. That kind of shit doesn't sit right with a lot of people, kind of like the recent antics of Fetterman.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

It's not that they needed to woo Palestinian voters, overall they are an insignificant bloc that can't affect the outcome of an election. They needed to energize their own previously strong voting base and failed to, and the situation in Gaza and the party's response was a strong reason for that, backed up by polling data. Blaming the Palestinian voters for their loss is abject insanity.

OK I will amend my earlier statement. Any eligible voter (palestinian, american, martian, etc...) who didnt vote for Harris because Palestine is the most important issue in their lives can get the fuck out of the country. they are dumber than the republicans we laugh at on team Leopards Eating People's Faces Party. they can all get fucked. 

Edited by Blotto
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Posted
8 minutes ago, Blotto said:

OK I will amend my earlier statement. Any eligible voter (palestinian, american, martian, etc...) who didnt vote for Harris because Palestine is the most important issue in their lives can get the fuck out of the country. they are dumber than the republicans we laugh at on team Leopards Eating People's Faces Party. they can all get fucked. 

I'm not sure "we should deport people who don't vote the way I want" is a good way to separate ourselves from the GQP.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I'm not sure "we should deport people who don't vote the way I want" is a good way to separate ourselves from the GQP.

And ensuring that Donald Trump was elected to visit untold harm upon the poor, immigrants, people of color, LGBTQ, unions, and the disabled is?

Because that's what I hear when I hear people say they can't vote for the Dems. Fuck all of those people.

Edited by Foosters
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Posted
1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

I'm not sure "we should deport people who don't vote the way I want" is a good way to separate ourselves from the GQP.

If I were king I would just deport stupid people, regardless of party. Coincidentally,  that would eliminate most GQP voters and the palestinian americans clutching pearls because Harris didnt sing Fida'i at the beginning of each campaign rally. 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Blotto said:

If I were king I would just deport stupid people, regardless of party. Coincidentally,  that would eliminate most GQP voters and the palestinian americans clutching pearls because Harris didnt sing Fida'i at the beginning of each campaign rally. 

Well, shit, if we're speculating about ideal worlds...

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Posted

I talked to a good friend from Ft Bend county who is muslim and pretty much plugged into the muslim community there.  Pre election day, he was talking about how dumb so many muslims were for switching to Trump.  All along I had been thinking they were doing it in a move of solidarity behind Palestine.  So I was surprised when I asked him about it and he said they were generally happy about it.  What they wanted was to see the conflict come to an end, it really didn't matter who won or lost, just get it over and Trump did that.  

However he did say that Muslim Ban 2.0 hasn't sunk in much yet, so that's what will get them stirred up.

Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Well, shit, if we're speculating about ideal worlds...

Fantastic. I'll mark you down as a Yes on the "Blotto to be king" initiative. I believe you're the first one. I'll see if I can get you a koozie.

Edited by Blotto
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Posted
2 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Hey thanks, man, I really appreciate your flippant attitude. Members of my extended family are still in immediate, mortal danger in that part of the world, you know. I do appreciate that you are okay with pointing fingers [at the wrong targets] and going "nyah nyah boo boo" while Trump is maybe kick-starting the next Holocaust because you're mad at a group of voters that realistically could not and did not affect the outcome of the election. They declined to vote for the campaign that literally told them "fuck off, we don't need your votes"

Literally?

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Posted
27 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

I talked to a good friend from Ft Bend county who is muslim and pretty much plugged into the muslim community there.  Pre election day, he was talking about how dumb so many muslims were for switching to Trump.  All along I had been thinking they were doing it in a move of solidarity behind Palestine.  So I was surprised when I asked him about it and he said they were generally happy about it.  What they wanted was to see the conflict come to an end, it really didn't matter who won or lost, just get it over and Trump did that.  

However he did say that Muslim Ban 2.0 hasn't sunk in much yet, so that's what will get them stirred up.

He did what? 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Both sides, am I right?

I think that the soundtrack thing is a novel addition. Maybe an even trade for vampire matt miller. 

Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Hey thanks, man, I really appreciate your flippant attitude. Members of my extended family are still in immediate, mortal danger in that part of the world, you know. I do appreciate that you are okay with pointing fingers [at the wrong targets] and going "nyah nyah boo boo" while Trump is maybe kick-starting the next Holocaust because you're mad at a group of voters that realistically could not and did not affect the outcome of the election. They declined to vote for the campaign that literally told them "fuck off, we don't need your votes" in no uncertain terms. Something which you conveniently refuse to address.

Of course I, and many like me, held my nose and voted for her anyway, but I'm a high information voter. Most people aren't, and that's just the factbut I appreciate you getting your petty dunks in on top of the potential corpses of people I care about.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that their position is an emotional, ultimately irrational one (similar to your prolific and mean-spirited accusations of antisemitism against posters who were critical of Israel's response post-October 7th). Do you really expect people who are deliberately, and quite publicly, humiliated and alienated by the Democratic Party and the Harris campaign in the way that they were to just shrug their shoulders and pull the lever anyway?

That would be an insane and genuinely unreasonable ask of any marginalized group, but because it's this specific topic and the group in question are comprised of mostly scary brown people, it's okay to condemn them because it's no skin off your nose, right?

 

 

Hey man, thanks for chiming in and slipping back into the thinly veiled racism. I figured you got over that, but I guess we're back to being like "hey lol them ayrabs and their suicide vests, right?" *nudge nudge*

God forbid we look have a nuanced take when we can just spew diarrhea instead.

I mean, come on, I'm not happy about a bunch of Jill Stein votes from that camp, either, but ultimately it didn't affect the outcome of the election. It didn't. We know this. Not only that, but there's plenty of data that suggests a better response from the Biden administration and like, anything at all from the Harris campaign other than just going along with said administration would likely have led to a much better outcome overall.

It's just sad that we just can't have a conversation about how badly the Ds fucked this up, including the Harris campaign, we just have to shit on the people they thumbed their noses at and told to fuck off instead.

You’re unhinged. First off, please as you say “show your work” here  Biden/Harris LITERALLY told Palestinians to “fuck off, we don’t need your votes.” You seem to big on “empirical evidence” in your recent posts. So show your work. I’ll accept a link or video with the quote of Biden/harris literally telling them to “fuck off” and they don’t need the  Arab votes. 

additionally, you don’t get to take credit for being a high information Harris voter while absolving most of the Arab population for being normal lower information voters. It sounds like you should have been doing more to educate, and I’ll paraphrase here, your family/people. Every post you made last year on here bitching and moaning about Biden/Harris could have been an opportunity to phone bank, door knock, or email and reach out to communities to explain to them what would happen if Trump regained power. 

 

10 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

What do you mean, y'all? I voted for Harris, mother fucker, you know I did. I certainly didn't encourage anyone else not to, either. I knew the stakes. Eat my fucking ass, I didn't order a shit sandwich for anyone. But I appreciate the boldness of the lie, I guess.

I also didn't say the Dems made them do this. I said they publicly humiliated them, deliberately alienated them and told them "fuck off, we don't need your votes". These are just facts, they happened, and the subsequent response of "Well, we're not going to vote for you I guess" is an understandable one, even if it's ultimately stupid and counterproductive, and meaningless.

Again, the complete inability of some people to blame the Biden admin and Harris campaign for their own, demonstrable mistakes is just staggering to me.

Please support your “facts” with links and data. Note your subjective interpretation of a situation is neither facts nor data. For example if a woman refuses to go on a date with you, it is not a fact that she is a “raging lesbian who hates dick.”

there’s no shortage or people willing to blame Biden/harris for mistakes. But I see a shortage of anyone willing to do the same to people who voted for their own genocide in the face of, we won’t call it facts, we’ll call it “overwhelming evidence.”

 

9 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

I'm not saying it wasn't stupid, just that it was understandable given the circumstances. And the fact that you tried to lump me, a pro-Palestinian Harris voter, in with them as if I'm responsible for this, kind of betrays your irrationality here.

Voting in a manner that will bring genocide upon the very people you want to help is never, under any circumstances, understandable. 

9 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

My sole issue here is the complete inability to hold the Dems and the Harris campaign accountable for the demonstrable mistakes they made with regard to this specific topic. They fucked this up just as much as the people that felt disaffected by them. No one wants to talk about that, though, we'd rather just shit on the dumb brown people.

No one is arguing the ways Biden/harris fucked up. Obviously they did, as they lost. But you keep screaming how you have data that they fucked up on Palestine, this is their fault, but in your next breath you say there is empirical and factual evidence that the Arab population didn’t cost them the election. You can’t have it both ways. 

9 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Also, the notion that applying real pressure to Israel was political suicide is a ludicrous lie. There is empirical data available that indicates that a significant percentage of the millions of people that previously voted for Biden and did not vote in the 2024 election, sat home because of the administration's response to the situation in Gaza.

Again, please show your empirical data. And not just the number of people that stayed home. But the number of people that stayed home, the reason they cited staying home as Israel and Palestine, and that number and the margin of victory for Trump. Go ahead, I’ll wait. 
 

Because, and I’ll veer into chainsaw’s stupidity next, the overwhelming reason I’ve seen cited before and after the election, consistently, was the border and cost of goods. 

Edited by SydneyCarton
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Posted (edited)

So I hate to even use this imagery because of how horrific it is but feel it’s becoming more and more accurate as we go along especially with the events of last night: Why are we signing up to help Bidi enact a solution that deems fairly final to the Palestinian question in Gaza?  

Edited by Evil Bill Obrien
Posted
13 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Maybe you and others should stop acting like snarky, smug assholes on this topic because a group of voters were rightfully upset at the Biden administration for their inaction, blatant lies, and handling of Israel with regard to what was/is happening in Gaza. Continuing to place the blame on these voters instead of the administration that alienated them and the campaign that further alienated them by quite literally telling them "fuck off, we don't need your votes" is unbelievably asinine.

The election already happened. We all know that most voters only see what's right in front of them, and to those people, the administration's handling of the situation and their response to pleas for action (or any representation at all) from was unconscionable. It is what it is, and on that note they're not wrong. Obviously, the politically savvy understand that Trump would likely be worse for Gaza, but again, most voters aren't looking ahead, they're just reacting to what's right in front of their faces.

Furthermore, we know that even if she got every single one of those votes in places like Dearborn, she would still have lost, so what the fuck is your beef, exactly? It's the exact same dumbass energy as all of the people that were shitting on trans people and other marginalized groups right after the election. Literally just place the blame on anyone but the fucking Democrats who fumbled the entire bag themselves.

Sorry, any moron who thought trump would be better for Muslims than Biden truly deserves to FO.

And I’m here to enjoy every time it happens.

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

So I hate to even use this imagery because of how horrific it is but feel it’s becoming more and more accurate as we go along especially with the events of last night: Why are we signing up to help Bidi enact a solution that deems fairly final to the Palestinian question in Gaza?  

Because there's money to be made off it. Everything with Trump must be viewed through the lens of how does it directly benefit him or his family monetarily. 

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

So I hate to even use this imagery because of how horrific it is but feel it’s becoming more and more accurate as we go along especially with the events of last night: Why are we signing up to help Bidi enact a solution that deems fairly final to the Palestinian question in Gaza?  

It fits with the cycle of abuse 

Posted

Aw shucks, maybe the Democrats would have won if only their voters didn't actually expect anything from them, if only people stopped saying mean stuff about them.



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