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Researchers: Myers-Briggs Ain't Worth A Shit


phdhorn

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They say you can take it like 5 weeks later and get an entirely different "personality".  This is exactly what happens with me.  I can take it 3 times and get radically different results.  To me that test is pure bullshit.  Now it's true, I have multiple personalities and run a sleazy hotel in California with a spooky Victorian house up the hill, but it's still a joke.  As IMHO are 90% of all personality tests.  Might as well put the types on a Twister spinner and go for it.

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The Myers-Briggs Type Indicator is one of the most popular personality tests in the world. It’s also one of the most regularly debunked.

The test sorts people into one of 16 four-letter personality types based on their preferences for Sensing (S) or Intuition (N), Extraversion (E) or Introversion (I), Thinking (T) or Feeling (F), and Judging (J) or Perceiving (P). The company’s website boasts the assessment has a 90% accuracy rating and a 90% average test-retest correlation, “making it one of the most reliable and accurate personality assessments available.”

Many researchers, however, have long questioned the MBTI’s scientific merit.

“In social science, we use four standards: are the categories reliable, valid, independent, and comprehensive?” Adam Grant, a professor of industrial psychology at the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School, wrote in an essay on the subject.“For the MBTI, the evidence says not very, no, no, and not really.”

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These faults are likely in part because neither of its creators, Katherine Cook Briggs and her daughter Isabel Briggs Myers, had formal training in psychology, explained Merve Emre, author of "The Personality Brokers,” which explores the history of the MBTI.

Katherine Briggs became interested in Carl Jung’s book “Psychological Types” and began “typing” everyone she knew, said Emre, a professor at Oxford University. In 1943, amid the labor boom of World War II, her daughter took that system and designed a questionnaire to determine what job a worker’s personality is best suited for.

“It really was this very unscientific process,” Emre said.

In 1975, Consulting Psychological Press, now known as the Myers-Briggs Company,  commercialized the test and became its exclusive world wide publisher, according to Suresh Balasubramanian, the company's general manager/senior vice president of products, programs, marketing. The company has spent decades improving the assessment and doing more research on its validy, Balasubramanian said.

Research has since found that upwards of 50% of people got a different score when they re-took the MBTI just five weeks later. Studies have also shown that the test is not effective at predicting people’s success in different jobs.

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Balasubramanian claims the research discrediting the MBTI is outdated, but the statistics have been so often repeated by subsequent articles and studies that it created a sort of "Internet myth." He added that the problems those researchers encountered have long since been fixed.

"When you look at validity of the instrument it is just as valid as any other personality assessment," Balasubramanian said.

Today, some 1.5 million people take the test online each year and 88 of the Fortune 100 companies are clients of the Myers-Briggs Company, according to Balasubramanian. So why do people continue to take a test that reporters from Vox said in 2015, “has about as much scientific validity as your astrological sign?”

Emre, the Oxford professor, explained that unlike other personality tests, the MBTI is appealing because it is “nonjudgemental” meaning that that all the results are positive.

It was designed that way because its creators “thought that would be very motivating for workers to believe the only purpose of the indicator was to match them to the best job that was suited for them,” Emre said.

She added that the test satisfies an innate desire to know more about ourselves and an easy way to describe that self to others.

"Once you know that you can figure out ways to bring your life choices into alignment with that version of yourself," Emre said. “I think that’s a really, really appealing fantasy that we can aspire to a kind of self governance and a kind of coherence."

 

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United Airlines uses something called the Hogan to pre screen pilot applicants before any interview process starts. If you "fail" maybe we'll get back to you in a year or two and you can retake it. Lost out on a lot of good people that are probably at Delta now.

Apparently it was written by a woman, so I advise all new hires to let their spouse take it for them. Fucking HR man.

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I think the test has a very small benefit in helping people understand some of their inherent tendencies, depending on how strongly you score in a category. But I don't think it's worth anything to a third party trying to evaluate anyone.

I've taken it a half dozen times and I'm always an INTJ, and the I and J are always very strongly pronounced. Knowing that has helped me develop professionally, so for what it cost me ($0), I am glad to have taken it. 

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I also think one of the pitfalls of this test, especially when talking to a buncha people I've known who have taken it, is that they actually try to steer themselves over to that personality type, or forcibly fake-attach themselves to behave like that type (or justify shortcomings as "well I'm naturally a 1234 type, so it's expected."  I think taking it for more than casual fun and curiosity is unwarranted, even if it seems like it "pegs" some people.  Hell after a few questions I even begin to pick up the syntax and knowing if I answer in a certain way, I'll get a certain result.

Give me the ink blots any day!

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I took a Strengthfinders assessment a couple of years ago (along with everyone else on the team on a large volunteer project).  I found it to be pretty accurate.  The result of that was mostly that everyone became more comfortable with their role, and with the roles of their fellow team members.  That was helpful.

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18 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

I also think one of the pitfalls of this test, especially when talking to a buncha people I've known who have taken it, is that they actually try to steer themselves over to that personality type, or forcibly fake-attach themselves to behave like that type (or justify shortcomings as "well I'm naturally a 1234 type, so it's expected."  I think taking it for more than casual fun and curiosity is unwarranted, even if it seems like it "pegs" some people.  Hell after a few questions I even begin to pick up the syntax and knowing if I answer in a certain way, I'll get a certain result.

Give me the ink blots any day!

Dude.  They all look like boobs.

Or maybe that's jut me.

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8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I took a Strengthfinders assessment a couple of years ago (along with everyone else on the team on a large volunteer project).  I found it to be pretty accurate.  The result of that was mostly that everyone became more comfortable with their role, and with the roles of their fellow team members.  That was helpful.

The world needs ditch diggers, too.

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The point isn’t that it’s tough to fool. It’s easy to fool by it’s nature. The idea is if you take it honestly it should be pretty accurate. 

I don’t think it’s news to most people whether they are introverted or extroverted, or the other differentiators, nor would it be tough to see how to game it if one was so inclined.

so it’s usefulness is limited to strangers who have to judge you without knowing you.

 

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Pseudoscience is worthless? Stop the presses!

These things are like horoscopes. It's all confirmation bias. Lay out a bunch of generalized platitudes and people will fit themselves in neatly according to what they already believe. We did a Myers Briggs ripoff at work a few months ago (I guess my employer was too cheap to spring for the real deal?) that was based on colors or something. After the session they wanted to come around and put two stickers with your two primary colors on everyone's badges so that we'd "know how to interact with each other". I kinda treated it like I do when one of my kids wants to give me a princess sticker - it's very important to them and costs me nothing (except some time, but hey, they're paying me), so sure, why not.

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I agree about the MB: I took it once ans was an INTJ, I took it later ans was an ENFP.  Maybe I changed, maybe it was the test?

A couple of months ago I took the Enneagram as Part of some group/team building thing.  I seemed to be much more "spot on" than the MB and when I read the descriptions of my findings I found my self agreeing, not only with their assessments of me, but those of my wife/friends.  

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I always hated personality tests because this particular one was so worthless.

A couple of years ago I had a few sessions with a counselor who pointed me to the Enneagram test which I skeptically filled out. It was surprisingly very insightful and accurate, and I have since recommended it to a few family members who have agreed that it is pretty accurate and sometimes eerily on-point.

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1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Seems like very few social science experiments are repeatable, as people are dynamic creatures that are effected by things like stress, mood and diet. 

Social science is just more fuzzy than hard science. 

Actually personality psychology is one of the branches of psych that's had results replicated in multiple studies etc...

What sucks is the irresponsible companies peddling something like a Myers-Briggs into HR departments as the only thing that matters in recruiting or career development. 

7 minutes ago, Chips O'Toole said:

I always hated personality tests because this particular one was so worthless.

A couple of years ago I had a few sessions with a counselor who pointed me to the Enneagram test which I skeptically filled out. It was surprisingly very insightful and accurate, and I have since recommended it to a few family members who have agreed that it is pretty accurate and sometimes eerily on-point.

Ennegrams can be great tool to explore and understand how certain issues carries across generations. 

Edited by YChang
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Don't know why that last post showed up that way.

Any way, I've always chuckled at this quip: "Yeah, I took a personality test.  I failed."

I remember the Scientology dipshits would always bug us as we walked by asking if we wanted to take a "free personality test?"  I liked to respond with "you're testing my personality right now, asshole."

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I always hated personality tests because this particular one was so worthless.

A couple of years ago I had a few sessions with a counselor who pointed me to the Enneagram test which I skeptically filled out. It was surprisingly very insightful and accurate, and I have since recommended it to a few family members who have agreed that it is pretty accurate and sometimes eerily on-point.
Fuck my wife has joined that cult. YOU NEED TO READ THIS BOOK, YOU'RE SUCH A TYPE 5.
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3 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

I think the test has a very small benefit in helping people understand some of their inherent tendencies, depending on how strongly you score in a category. But I don't think it's worth anything to a third party trying to evaluate anyone.

Came here to post this ^

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1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

The point isn’t that it’s tough to fool. It’s easy to fool by it’s nature. The idea is if you take it honestly it should be pretty accurate. 

I don’t think it’s news to most people whether they are introverted or extroverted, or the other differentiators, nor would it be tough to see how to game it if one was so inclined.

so it’s usefulness is limited to strangers who have to judge you without knowing you.

 

I've had to take it 3 times, and I always thought the Introvert/Extrovert binary was obvious and therefore suspect, but I'll be damned if I innately understand the other types even today, after reading their descriptors for the hundredth time. And I always score off the chart on everything except I/O where I've scored barely Introverted once and barely Extroverted twice.

 

When I read my overall type it does make sense, but a lot of my horoscope does as well.

 

I guess my reaction is a blended meh. I've never had anybody oversell this test or its use in my situation so I always thought it harmless but somewhat useful.

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About 15 years ago I tried to get into pharm sales. Every application from every company had a personality test to fill out.  First couple I did honestly, which should have led to non salesperson type results. I’d immediately get a no thanks email. 

So then I tried to tailor my answers to the typical salesperson personality:  outgoing, work the room, like to meet new people, that bullshit. Got the same no thanks emails. Never was able to talk to a live person, even on the phone. 

 

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I have become extremely skeptical about both personality tests and career tests after two experiences.

I took the career test that my kids took. Out of 350 careers, it actually recommended the one career that I actually had selected in real life. Perfect right? Nope. After receiving a four year degree in that area and practicing for two years in the profession, I discovered I hated that career with a passion. The test measured the wrong things. It measured things I found interesting, NOT important aspects of real jobs. I changed careers and have been happy ever since.

A few years ago I took a personality test. It was very difficult for me to answer the questions. It all depended upon the context of the situations but the questions never set the broad context. In particular, the test kept asking over and over and over questions about competitive situations. The results of the test, and other tests, indicated I was a perfect candidate for a job except for one thing - I was deemed “unreliable” due to my competitiveness score. Anyone who knows me would laugh. I got the job anyway and proceeded to pulverize our competition into the dirt. Just kidding.

The tests measure the wrong things.

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3 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Seems like very few social science experiments are repeatable, as people are dynamic creatures that are effected by things like stress, mood and diet. 

Social science is just more fuzzy than hard science. 

Very true, it is actually a bit of a crisis right now:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/02/the-replication-crisis-may-also-be-a-theory-crisis/

 

A replication crisis has called into question results from behavioral (and other) sciences. Complaints have focused on poor statistical methods, the burying of negative results, and other “questionable research practices” that undermine the quality of individual studies.

But methods are only part of the problem, as Michael Muthukrishna and Joseph Henrich argue in a paper in Nature Human Behaviour this week. It’s not just that individual puzzle pieces are low in quality; it’s also that there’s not enough effort to fit those pieces into a coherent picture. "Without an overarching theoretical framework,” write Muthukrishna and Henrich, “empirical programs spawn and grow from personal intuitions and culturally biased folk theories.”

see also: https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/08/why-do-only-two-thirds-of-famous-social-science-results-replicate-its-complicated/

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4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Dude.  They all look like boobs.

Or maybe that's jut me.

I think it depends on the set of ink blots being used. I've never seen a set that had any boobs in it, it seems I always get the ones that are shaped like bulging dicks or sticks of butter, it seems like they are really into buttery dicks.

 

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1 minute ago, F250 said:

I think it depends on the set of ink blots being used. I've never seen a set that had any boobs in it, it seems I always get the ones that are shaped like bulging dicks or sticks of butter, it seems like they are really into buttery dicks.

 

1024px-sigmund_freud_1926-edited.jpg

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Elite ENTJ here, less yapping and more work por favor 

 

forget his name, but a UT prof is an expert on this stuff. He hosted our 3 day mba boot camp and damn his talks on this was fascinating.

Edited by tx 3 putt
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United Airlines uses something called the Hogan to pre screen pilot applicants before any interview process starts. If you "fail" maybe we'll get back to you in a year or two and you can retake it. Lost out on a lot of good people that are probably at Delta now.

Apparently it was written by a woman, so I advise all new hires to let their spouse take it for them. Fucking HR man.

I was Myers-Briggs’d at Delta so they probably had to take it there too.
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5 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

About 15 years ago I tried to get into pharm sales. Every application from every company had a personality test to fill out.  First couple I did honestly, which should have led to non salesperson type results. I’d immediately get a no thanks email. 

So then I tried to tailor my answers to the typical salesperson personality:  outgoing, work the room, like to meet new people, that bullshit. Got the same no thanks emails. Never was able to talk to a live person, even on the phone. 

 

Are you a super hot chick?

No?

Then you aren't qualified. 

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9 hours ago, phdhorn said:

They say you can take it like 5 weeks later and get an entirely different "personality".  This is exactly what happens with me.  I can take it 3 times and get radically different results.  To me that test is pure bullshit.  Now it's true, I have multiple personalities and run a sleazy hotel in California with a spooky Victorian house up the hill, but it's still a joke.  As IMHO are 90% of all personality tests.  Might as well put the types on a Twister spinner and go for it.

 

Mine has remained constant over the last 10 years or so. I know this guy. Try his test. Free, no registration. https://www.careerplanner.com/MB/Free-Personality-Test2.cfm

This is another site that has held the same over time. http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp

If borderline you can consider behavior under stress and back into your type.https://www.psychologyjunkie.com/2015/08/02/how-each-mbti-type-reacts-to-stress-and-how-to-help/

 

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5 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

About 15 years ago I tried to get into pharm sales. Every application from every company had a personality test to fill out.  First couple I did honestly, which should have led to non salesperson type results. I’d immediately get a no thanks email. 

So then I tried to tailor my answers to the typical salesperson personality:  outgoing, work the room, like to meet new people, that bullshit. Got the same no thanks emails. Never was able to talk to a live person, even on the phone. 

 

You can't fool the test. If you try, it will return results that indicate you were dishonest with your answers. 

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