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Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away


InkaUtexas

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17 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

I’d like to see the per capita by state allocation numbers of the vaccines. They appear to be uneven in some cases.

Current as of today - https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/map-covid-19-vaccination-tracker-across-u-s-n1252085

sorry - not allocation numbers.

Edited by washparkhorn
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Definitely uneven distribution.  I'm in DC  with no health issues and they are saying it will be at least mid April.  Wife who has health issues was fully vaccinated in February.  I'm waiting my turn but it's annoying hearing people in other states who seem to be able to get a vaccine on demand 

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Yep, same here. My county has very little so I can wait my time. Same with my GF. But we don't mind. We have been very careful and weathered the pandemic quite well. Enough of my friends, teachers, are vaccinated so they can come over for a beer or two. Most of her friends are in healthcare so they are covered as well. 

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20 minutes ago, HookEm said:

I suspect the crowds you see are largely composed of vaxed folks and those who have already had it.

Already had it, maybe. But I doubt the bar scene is full of fully vaxed people. 

Edited by StruggleBus
I wouldn't know. I'm old, kind of fat, and married
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Now that my wife and I have been double vaxed, life is back to normal. We are going to restaurants and bars and traveling. I suspect the crowds you see are largely composed of vaxed folks and those who have already had it.

How you got to this point in life with this much faith in people, I can’t fathom
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19 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Yep, same here. My county has very little so I can wait my time. Same with my GF. But we don't mind. We have been very careful and weathered the pandemic quite well. Enough of my friends, teachers, are vaccinated so they can come over for a beer or two. Most of her friends are in healthcare so they are covered as well. 

 

I've heard there's pretty decent availability down here if you're so inclined. 

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16 hours ago, BradInATX said:

 

I've heard there's pretty decent availability down here if you're so inclined. 

Gotta make a run to DFW this week. Will see what I can find up there. if not then will come your way and bring a 12 pack. Ya know, for pain killing. 

And FUCK ACU 

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Seemed like a good dude:
 

Taylor, who co-founded the chain that opened in 1993, made headlines a year ago for giving up his bonus and base salary to pay his chain’s workers during the coronavirus pandemic.

The donation from Taylor's base salary amounted to just under $525,000 and his bonus was $525,000 as well, a spokesperson for the company told The Hill at the time.

I know chain restaurants are disliked by many, but I've always thought TR was one of the better ones.

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Steve Martin has an awful case of it.  I have a tiny, mild case of it that comes and goes at the strangest fucking times.  Thankfully only a handful of times per month and only lasting a minute or two.  

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I'd love to hear the discussion with your doctor,

"Sir, you have the liver of an 80 year old Russian woman."  

"Yeah doctor, but I get to bed despite the tinnitus."

"Ummm...they don't have that in Russia."

"Yeah (takes sip of cocktail), and now you know why."  

Edited by Lobo
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I’ve had a very bad constant case of it as long as I can remember. Sometimes it is just the loud high pitch tone that drowns out maybe half the volume of low music or conversation. Other times it is like a flock of chirping birds in my ear. All of it has the cricket noises in the background.

95% of the time I just tune it all out, the remaining 5% it is just annoying. Guess I’m acclimated to it.

That’s on top of the dull headache I’ve had for the past 3 or 4 years. It is what it is, but am not going to off myself because of it. Unless Sark falls flat on his face.

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32 minutes ago, XYZ said:

So former CDC director Robert Redfield says that the evidence points to SARS-CoV-2 coming from the Wuhan lab and not from a wet market. Fucking China should pay the bill for this.

File this one under no fucking shit 

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57 minutes ago, XYZ said:

So former CDC director Robert Redfield says that the evidence points to SARS-CoV-2 coming from the Wuhan lab and not from a wet market. Fucking China should pay the bill for this.

That guy was great in "All The President's Men", but I'm not sure we should listen to his take on such issues.

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36 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

File this one under no fucking shit 

It is a big deal, but I seriously doubt the new administration will do anything about it. I don't think anyone else will either. But if the right country such as Germany pushed it, it could be a worldwide crisis of sorts. Outside of numbnut politicians, I would think most of the world's inhabitants would think that China should be punished if found culpable of the COVID-19 pandemic.

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3 hours ago, GRHorn said:

File this one under no fucking shit 

Everyone with a functioning brain knew this was/is the case.  Jesus, there is a level 4 biolab in fucking Wuhan.  Early on a number of scientists clamed the virus far too developed to have just "sprung" up from a bat, a market, a Pangolin, or a Pangomarketbat but all the self-righteous Brach Covidians shouted them down at every damn turn.  The WHO, owned and paid for by China, won't say a damn thing.  

 

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It's them Wu-Han Clan Wet Ass Beakers.

Neither Trump nor Biden would have done anything about this, except talk a lot.  What you need is some old friends of China drop by for a reminder visit---Great Britain, Japan, and Russia.  "Nice place y'all have here...be a shame if anything happened to it.  Again."  

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On 3/21/2021 at 10:03 PM, Hate said:

I’ve got what I would consider bad tinnitus and I’ve never thought about killing myself because of it. He must have had an unbelievably bad case of it if it caused him to check out early.

 

On 3/21/2021 at 10:09 PM, Lobo said:

Steve Martin has an awful case of it.  I have a tiny, mild case of it that comes and goes at the strangest fucking times.  Thankfully only a handful of times per month and only lasting a minute or two.  

 

On 3/22/2021 at 8:37 AM, Armybrat said:

I’ve had a very bad constant case of it as long as I can remember. Sometimes it is just the loud high pitch tone that drowns out maybe half the volume of low music or conversation. Other times it is like a flock of chirping birds in my ear. All of it has the cricket noises in the background.

95% of the time I just tune it all out, the remaining 5% it is just annoying. Guess I’m acclimated to it.

That’s on top of the dull headache I’ve had for the past 3 or 4 years. It is what it is, but am not going to off myself because of it. Unless Sark falls flat on his face.

had to be done.

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45 minutes ago, Lobo said:

It's them Wu-Han Clan Wet Ass Beakers.

Neither Trump nor Biden would have done anything about this, except talk a lot.  What you need is some old friends of China drop by for a reminder visit---Great Britain, Japan, and Russia.  "Nice place y'all have here...be a shame if anything happened to it.  Again."  

We could send Mike Tyson to give it some weight.

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33 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Early on a number of scientists clamed the virus far too developed to have just "sprung" up from a bat, a market, a Pangolin, or a Pangomarketbat but all the self-righteous Brach Covidians shouted them down at every damn turn. 

I still don't think it was engineered in the lab. There has been some really compelling analysis of the genetic sequence by virologists that pinpoints a mixed infection by two different coronaviruses in a bat and a copy choice error event. There appear to be two specific coronaviruses involved, which can be tied to specific bat species.  The bats have different ranges, but their ranges overlap in one specific region, Yunnan.

Which so happens to be the very region that the scientists working at the Wuhan Virological Institute were collecting coronavirus samples out of caves to research back at the lab in Wuhan. Most likely explanation imo, they took a sample of a virus that originated in nature, somebody at the lab fucked around and found out why safety procedures exist, got infected, unintentionally transmitted the virus out of the lab setting.

There are of course other scenarios that can get that virus out of the cave in Yunnan and on a train to Wuhan, but the above seems like the most likely scenario given the evidence imo.  

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3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I still don't think it was engineered in the lab. There has been some really compelling analysis of the genetic sequence by virologists that pinpoints a mixed infection by two different coronaviruses in a bat and a copy choice error event. There appear to be two specific coronaviruses involved, which can be tied to specific bat species.  The bats have different ranges, but their ranges overlap in one specific region, Yunnan.

Which so happens to be the very region that the scientists working at the Wuhan Virological Institute were collecting coronavirus samples out of caves to research back at the lab in Wuhan. Most likely explanation imo, they took a sample of a virus that originated in nature, somebody at the lab fucked around and found out why safety procedures exist, got infected, unintentionally transmitted the virus out of the lab setting.

There are of course other scenarios that can get that virus out of the cave in Yunnan and on a train to Wuhan, but the above seems like the most likely scenario given the evidence imo.  

I remember one of the Weinstein brothers pushing back on that premise.  His PhD was in the study of bats.  His numerous points were that to start with, there are tens of thousands of bats species', studied for decades if not centuries in every place across the globe.  None have had anything even close to this virus.  Anecdotal, I know.  There have been bat RNA virus's, but NONE that spread to humans.  Zoonic transfer never really happened.  Not like this.  Nor are these bats un-studied.  

Then there is the extrapolation that the virus, if it did originate, was FAR to advanced to jump from human host to host at the time "it got out".  These cells have to be adapted to a carrier.  They're not a universal receptor.  I'm going off memory, but the way he described it that it was far too advanced at the stage is started to spread.  Not as a bio-weapon, but as a lab that had lax safety protocols.  A lab that just so happened to be the preeminent study on bat related corona virus's?  Nor is this unusual.  Lab leaks happen more often that we are led to believe.  You have papers released from the Wuhan lab with these corona virus samples being exposed to human cells???

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2 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Then there is the extrapolation that the virus, if it did originate, was FAR to advanced to jump from human host to host at the time "it got out".  These cells have to be adapted to a carrier.  They're not a universal receptor.  I'm going off memory, but the way he described it that it was far too advanced at the stage is started to spread.  Not as a bio-weapon, but as a lab that had lax safety protocols.  A lab that just so happened to be the preeminent study on bat related corona virus's?  Nor is this unusual.  Lab leaks happen more often that we are led to believe.  You have papers released from the Wuhan lab with these corona virus samples being exposed to human cells???

Here's a paper that argues for a copy-choice recombination event for the introduction of the spike. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00705-020-04750-z?

Abstract in the quote.

Quote

Much remains unknown concerning the origin of the novel pandemic coronavirus that has raged across the globe since emerging in Wuhan of Hubei province, near the center of the People’s Republic of China, in December of 2019. All current members of the family Coronaviridae have arisen by a combination of incremental adaptive mutations, against the backdrop of many recombinational events throughout the past, rendering each a unique mosaic of RNA sequences from diverse sources. The consensus among virologists is that the base sequence of the novel coronavirus, designated SARS-CoV-2, was derived from a common ancestor of a bat coronavirus, represented by the strain RaTG13, isolated in Yunnan province in 2013. Into that ancestral genetic background, several recombination events have since occurred from other divergent bat-derived coronaviruses, resulting in localized discordance between the two. One such event left SARS-CoV-2 with a receptor binding domain (RBD) capable of binding the human ACE-2 receptor lacking in RaTG13, and a second event uniquely added to SARS-CoV-2 a site specific for furin, capable of efficient endoproteolytic cleavage and activation of the spike glycoprotein responsible for virus entry and cell fusion. This paper demonstrates by bioinformatic analysis that such recombinational events are facilitated by short oligonucleotide “breakpoint sequences”, similar to CAGAC, that direct recombination naturally to certain positions in the genome at the boundaries between blocks of RNA code and potentially RNA structure. This “breakpoint sequence hypothesis” provides a natural explanation for the biogenesis of SARS-CoV-2 over time and in the wild.

 

I agree that the index event was most likely in the lab, or directly related to the lab. I think the natural origin of the core genetic sequence is also the most likely situation. Perhaps handling, testing and culturing in the lab environment had further influence on the ability to jump to humans, but from what I have read from variety of virologists the virus being "engineered" in the lab does not seem likely.  Admittedly, the distinctions between these things kinda blur, but I think that you have a spectrum wrt the the creation of the virus sequence from "lab-created" to "natural origin" and we're close to the latter than the former.  But the evidence suggests to me that the index infection that became the COVID-19 pandemic originated either directly in the lab, or was transmitted out of the lab into the Wuhan population center somehow, unintentionally. 

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2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I agree that the index event was most likely in the lab, or directly related to the lab. I think the natural origin of the core genetic sequence is also the most likely situation. Perhaps handling, testing and culturing in the lab environment had further influence on the ability to jump to humans, but from what I have read from variety of virologists the virus being "engineered" in the lab does not seem likely.  Admittedly, the distinctions between these things kinda blur, but I think that you have a spectrum wrt the the creation of the virus sequence from "lab-created" to "natural origin" and we're close to the latter than the former.  But the evidence suggests to me that the index infection that became the COVID-19 pandemic originated either directly in the lab, or was transmitted out of the lab into the Wuhan population center somehow, unintentionally. 

I've seen papers arguing both sides.  I know you also testimony from Chinese scientists that stated plainly that they were in fact introducing this virus to human cells intentionally (and the source of how far advanced the virus was when it hit the landscape).  ie., "Passaging"

We know this took place in the lab.  Passaging is the incremental introduction of a virus to a new host type, creating a new type pf pathogen.  We know the Shi lab there @ the WIV was reconstituting viral loads on human and monkey cells,  specifically the ACE2 receptors.  

Again, it's all correlative evidence and speculation.  I remember this was a great read at the time:  that the Shi lab knowingly amplified the proteins of collected corona viruses, leading to the very real possibility of GOF testing (intentionally increasing it's transmission rates between hosts)........and the part Weinstien took umbrage with.  It's far too "advanced" in it's lifecycle to have just sprouted out of a market, etc.  

Possibility of a lab created virus

Just to seem to be too many smoking guns here.  The sheer proximity of the WIV and WCDCP labs to the outbreak and the nature of their work represents evidence that can hardly be ignored. The long international history of lab escapes and the biosafety concerns from all directions about the labs in Wuhan greatly strengthen the case. Especially since evidence for the alternative hypothesis, in the form of a link to wild animal exposure or the wildlife trade, remains extremely weak, being based primarily on analogy with SARS one.

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3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Just to seem to be too many smoking guns here.  The sheer proximity of the WIV and WCDCP labs to the outbreak and the nature of their work represents evidence that can hardly be ignored. The long international history of lab escapes and the biosafety concerns from all directions about the labs in Wuhan greatly strengthen the case. Especially since evidence for the alternative hypothesis, in the form of a link to wild animal exposure or the wildlife trade, remains extremely weak, being based primarily on analogy with SARS one.

Yeah, agreed.  To your point, I think that there is a spectrum of the origination story.  At one end, something like genetic engineering the code. We spliced this with this and this cause we want to bioengineer to perfect pandemic virus. In the middle, something like the nature of the lab experiments being conducted increased infectivity.  At the other end, totally natural origin.  I could see a place somewhere in between the middle and the other end. 

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5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Yeah, agreed.  To your point, I think that there is a spectrum of the origination story.  At one end, something like genetic engineering the code. We spliced this with this and this cause we want to bioengineer to perfect pandemic virus. In the middle, something like the nature of the lab experiments being conducted increased infectivity.  At the other end, totally natural origin.  I could see a place somewhere in between the middle and the other end. 

It just doesn't pass the smell test.  Let's look back at what happened.  Initially, researchers were denied access to the region, journalists asking hard questions were actually jailed, scientists had a gag order put in place to even talk about it, and the government destroyed samples and removed entire databases.  It was a massive cover up.  

Whether you want to point fingers or not, we still don't know nor do we have access even now to dig into what happened?

Then the region?  Wuhan is a sophisticated, modern city.  The whole wet market line was a total lie.  We knew back in January initial exposure cases were popping up with zero exposure markets of any kind.  And the outbreak?  In the winter time there?  Zero bats there in the winter.  Zero horseshoe bats.  And there just happened to be the largest viral lab in the world studying these viruses while doing these gain of function (GOF) testing we know they did to make the strains more and more infectious?

The earlier SARs versions we were able to track and codify how and when they "jumped" from animal to animal.  Not this one?  It came out ready-made and baked, able to instantly jump and infect humans.  So how did this virus just show up, ready to infect humans?

Not buying it.  

 

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I also want to be clear, I don't think this in intentional.  GOF and viral testing are done because they acknowledged that these outbreaks and dangerous, so getting ahead of their mutation and adaptive paths can lead to possible vaccination options.

But when you layer over citations in 2018 when the US embassy sent a delegation to visit to the lab, they raised the alarm of possible outbreaks on such dangerous research on these corona virus strains with WIV safety protocols not being sufficient.  

 

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1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

It just doesn't pass the smell test.  Let's look back at what happened.  Initially, researchers were denied access to the region, journalists asking hard questions were actually jailed, scientists had a gag order put in place to even talk about it, and the government destroyed samples and removed entire databases.  It was a massive cover up.  

Whether you want to point fingers or not, we still don't know nor do we have access even now to dig into what happened?

Then the region?  Wuhan is a sophisticated, modern city.  The whole wet market line was a total lie.  We knew back in January initial exposure cases were popping up with zero exposure markets of any kind.  And the outbreak?  In the winter time there?  Zero bats there in the winter.  Zero horseshoe bats.  And there just happened to be the largest viral lab in the world studying these viruses while doing these gain of function (GOF) testing we know they did to make the strains more and more infectious?

The earlier SARs versions we were able to track and codify how and when they "jumped" from animal to animal.  Not this one?  It came out ready-made and baked, able to instantly jump and infect humans.  So how did this virus just show up, ready to infect humans?

Not buying it.  

 

co-signed

 

ZERO point ZERO chance it didn't originate out of the Wuhan lab.  I agree it wasn't intentional.  I don't think anyone, not completely psychotic, could unleash a mutating virus on society in hopes of coming out on top.

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Just now, Incredulity said:

co-signed

 

ZERO point ZERO chance it didn't originate out of the Wuhan lab.  I agree it wasn't intentional.  I don't think anyone, not completely psychotic, could unleash a mutating virus on society in hopes of coming out on top.

If we really had good faith actors, there would be a welcomed and unanimous call for an international forensic dive into the region, with unrestricted access to the Chinese lab research, advancements, and databases.  Instead, the opposite it happening.  China has a unilateral gag order on their entire scientific community.  Initial scientists that spoke up....are just gone.  Poof.

The entire lab is verboten.  You would think the preeminent lab in the world studying corona viruses would maybe lend a hand to the nations reeling from this?  Nope.  Sealed up like the Kennedy assassin files.  Samples.  databases.  Files.  Wipes cleaner than Hillary's hard rive.  That a vaccine was engendered in the time span that it was, without any help from the scientific community actually studying the very virus itself is mind blowing.

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  • hayden_horn changed the title to Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away


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