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Olympics, better late than never


Michael Knight

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12 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

The yips are embarrassing. She owes no one anything. I feel sorry for her, but she choked on the biggest stage. Like great athletes across all sports. She is not unique. 
 

But she did quit. 

Yep. The basic analogy of the baseball pitcher pulling himself out of a game is a false comparison. The baseball pitcher knows a reliever can come in, and most likely with better stuff than he can throw. Gymnasts isn't structured like that. Maybe it should be, but its not. 

I will agree that Biles quitting is very different than other gymnasts. Doesn't she perform flips/maneuvers/whatever-you-call-it, that no other woman has done before? Back to a better baseball analogy. If there was an outlier pitcher that could throw at 120 but in one game was "stuck" at 100, I could understand the immediate concern of what is happening. Is he hurt or about to injure himself?  If the pitcher responded that he just wasn't in the game, he would be expected to get himself mentality back in the game right now. He has trained himself to not check out mentally. 

btw, I think its a great thing that female gymnasts are speaking up for themselves more. I imagine in the past, one of the Karolyis (& many other coaches) would have screamed at a gymnast to get back out there.

 

 

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12 hours ago, mchookem said:

random observation on gymnastics that i think is fascinating...

the American female gymnasts are shaped completely different from other countries. it's really weird considering they all do the same thing! i mean they are all petite...but our girls are so muscular, broad shoulders and chests, thick legs...they just look like little tight balls of muscle. they make me think 'power'.

 

538: Time for the End of the Teen Gymnast

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And men’s coaches started migrating into the women’s ranks. It’s probably difficult to imagine this now with the image seared into our collective memory of coach Béla Károlyi urging Kerri Strug to vault on an injured ankle at the 1996 Olympics, but for the first few decades of women’s gymnastics, the sport was administered by women, for women. FIG’s Women’s Technical Committee, which creates the rules that govern the sport, was composed entirely of women. Only female coaches were allowed onto the floor with the team or into the training halls at competitions. 

The influx of male coaches, either former gymnasts themselves or coaches who had previously worked with young men, had a significant impact on the development of women’s gymnastics. Male gymnasts of this time were already performing complex acrobatics in their exercises, so when they became coaches for women or when coaches for men started training women, they brought that technical expertise with them and started teaching them to the women. Or, as it turned out, girls. 

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“There’s been this argument that as male coaches began working the [women’s] sport, they preferred working with young girls because they have a more neutral body. It’s the same as a boy’s body — no breasts, no hips,” Cervin said. “Working with an adult woman is an entirely different thing.”

By working with young girls rather than women, the male coaches don’t have to do much by way of changing their training techniques to teach complex acrobatics. The argument that fully grown women can’t learn the new acrobatic elements is one of lazy coaches who don’t want to work too hard. Add to that the fact that kids are also easier to control and manipulate and, well, you’ve got a recipe for disaster.

 

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3 minutes ago, WBT said:

Basketball power Latvia just won the men's 3x3 gold.  They had some guy blowout the sole of his shoe halfway through but he taped it back on and finished the game.

Thats the kind of shit about the olympics that I actually love. Cousin Balki from latvia scooping gold. Or this chick from austria in road cycling is also a real cool story. 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/26/sport/anna-kiesenhofer-olympic-gold-tokyo-2020-spt-intl/index.html

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As an accomplished academic turned Olympic gold medalist, Kiesenhofer says she has always marched to the beat of her own drum. She hasn't been part of a pro cycling team since 2017, a decision she's stuck with of her own volition.

Kiesenhofer acknowledges that she's learned from past coaches, but says that fundamentally, "It just didn't fit my character. I like to be independent. I like to make my choices like my training plan, my races and so on. I have just this lonely fighter approach."
What she may lack in physical support, she certainly makes up by using her intellectual prowess.

Having earned a master's degree in mathematics from the University of Cambridge, England and a PhD in applied mathematics from the Polytechnic University of Catalonia in Barcelona, Kiesenhofer meticulously plans her own training, nutrition and race strategy.

"As a mathematician you're used to solving problems on your own, so that's the way I approach cycling," she says.
"Many cyclists are used to having people that actually do that for them [...] I mean, they have a trainer, they have a nutritionist, they have the guy that plans the race for them," she adds. I just do all these jobs myself."

 

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1 hour ago, ChickenSandwich said:

People attacking her personally are ridiculous, but it’s a big deal because the  face of the games just quit. Not hurt, just quit. 
 

We can say it’s fear of getting injured, or we can say it’s fear of getting embarrassed by competing and losing. If she competes and gets beat in each competition, her money/legacy take a hit. This way she can try to preserve both of those while receiving cover from the media. Brave, heroic. Bullshit. 
 

Athletics at the highest level are often separated by the mental toughness. Physical is one part, mental the other and she crumbled mentally on the biggest stage. 

Simone Biles is mentally tougher than you could ever comprehend being you little worm.

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Simone Biles said she got the ‘twisties.’ Gymnasts immediately understood.

Imagine flying through the air, springing off a piece of equipment as you prepare to flip on one axis while twisting on another. It all happens fast, so there’s little time to adjust. You rely on muscle memory, trusting that it’ll work out, because with so much practice, it usually does.

But then suddenly, you’re upside down in midair and your brain feels disconnected from your body. Your limbs that usually control how much you spin have stopped listening, and you feel lost. You hope all the years you’ve spent in this sport will guide your body to a safe landing position.

When Simone Biles pushed off the vaulting table Tuesday, she entered that terrifying world of uncertainty. In the Olympic team final, Biles planned to perform a 2½-twisting vault, but her mind chose to stall after just 1½ twists instead.

“I had no idea where I was in the air,” Biles said. “I could have hurt myself.”

Biles, who subsequently withdrew from the team competition and then the all-around final a day later, described what went wrong during that vault as “having a little bit of the twisties.”

The cute-sounding term, well-known in the gymnastics community, describes a frightening predicament. When gymnasts have the “twisties,” they lose control of their bodies as they spin through the air. Sometimes they twist when they hadn’t planned to. Other times they stop midway through, as Biles did. And after experiencing the twisties once, it’s very difficult to forget. Instinct gets replaced by thought. Thought quickly leads to worry. Worry is difficult to escape.

“Simply, your life is in danger when you’re doing gymnastics,” said Sean Melton, a former elite gymnast who dealt with the twisties through his entire career. “And then, when you add this unknown of not being able to control your body while doing these extremely dangerous skills, it adds an extreme level of stress. And it’s terrifying, honestly, because you have no idea what is going to happen.”

The twisties are essentially like the yips in other sports. But in gymnastics, the phenomenon affects the athletes when they’re in the air, so the mind-body disconnect can be dangerous, even for someone of Biles’s caliber.

After Tuesday’s team final, Biles described mental health challenges that went well beyond gymnastics, with roots in the overwhelming pressure to perform as one of the faces of these Olympics and in the stresses of the pandemic year. Her experience with the twisties is impossible to separate from those broader issues, and regardless, it’s irrelevant to the dangers posed by them.

Biles had started to have trouble with some skills leading up to these Games. Fellow Olympic team member Jordan Chiles, who trains with Biles in Spring, Tex., said Biles had been “giving us a little heart attack.”

Biles performs some of the world’s hardest skills, including a double-twisting double tuck dismount off beam and a triple-twisting double tuck on floor. To execute those elements safely, Biles said, “you have to be there 100 percent or 120 percent, because if you’re not the slightest bit, you can get hurt.” As a 24-year-old veteran, Biles realized she might not have been able to regain that mental fortitude.

When Biles mentioned that she had struggled with the twisties, former gymnasts flooded social media with empathy. Some detailed injuries they suffered after getting lost midway through a skill. One person called the twisties the “the scariest, most uncontrollable sensation.”

“It’s like a nonserious stroke,” 1988 Olympian Missy Marlowe tweeted.

Ariana Guerra, a former U.S. elite gymnast, dealt with the twisties multiple times during her career. At one point, she trained a double layout on floor and that same skill with a full twist during the second flip. She needed to warm up the double layout first and would worry that she would twist accidentally. The trouble spiraled, and soon, she couldn’t perform a simple back tuck without twisting. She worried about how the twisties could spread to skills on other apparatuses.

Guerra would go to the trampoline and tell herself: “Just a back handspring. Just a back handspring.” At the last second, she’d pick up her hands so they didn’t touch the ground. That was the only route toward performing a flip without her body adding an unintentional twist. After practice, she would do backward rolls — a skill that preschoolers learn — in hopes of regaining that feeling of only rotating without spinning.

“That's how mental it was,” Guerra said.

It took about two weeks to overcome, Guerra said, and she was in the midst of her preparation for an important competition. She thinks the twisties are more likely to surface during moments of stress.

Melton had the same issue in which his “body, for some reason, just automatically starts twisting and you just have no control over it.” Then, rather than focusing on technique, he’d start thinking about the twisties, which would lead to more trouble. At one competition, when Melton saluted the judges and looked down the runway, he couldn’t remember which direction he twisted on his new vault

For Melton, the twisties turned into a recurring problem. He eventually tailored his routines to include skills that didn’t lead to getting lost in the air. “There was no point in trying to fight the twisties at that point in my life,” said Melton, who recently retired from the sport.

Earlier in his career, Melton’s coaches would have him progress through basic elements — first a back tuck, then a back layout, a half twist and a full. But doing so took time. And at his gym, Melton could use the pits to eliminate the risk of injury while he focused on working through the issue.

“But when you’re at the Olympic Games, you don’t have that luxury of training in a facility where you can take a day to do basics, re-control your gymnastics and go into pits,” Melton said. “It’s tough when you’re at a competition and you’re dealing with it, because the stress of the competition’s weighing on you.”

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Recipe for disaster? What disaster occured? 

Look if Simone can't go that sucks but we have a deep bench. Hope she gets herself right.

But the whole gender nationalist angle is really fucking annoying. Men! They are evil!! Once an athlete won a championship with a gimp leg 25 years ago!! Come on. Being a top athlete is a crazy business for crazy competitive people. I get that completely if doing the insane shit to be an Olympian isn't for you. It sure isn't for me. Go play intramurals, in the words of a Big 12 coach.

But I hope Simone feels better and gets out there and kicks ass. But if not hey next woman up. We will do our best to compete and win anyway. That's how it goes.

Edited by Valmy77
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Posted (edited)

I figured like most Olympics, the conversations would devolve into conversations about playing sports in high school.  Most of reliving our glory days like Uncle Rico, making claims to our families and friends that if we had stuck with Water Polo a little longer, we could have played in college, maybe been an Olympic alternate.  Somebody waxing nostalgic about being good enough to make the U.S. Olympic baseball or basketball team back in the day before they let the pros play.  The usual banter filtered through the lens of decades of aging poorly.  But now, it's grown men bragging about how the mental fortitude forged in the competitive fire of JV football and low-stakes, no-cut baseball tournaments is greater than anything Simone Biles will ever know. 

I think a few of you competed for the Texas Longhorns but the rest of us have never put on anything more than a H.S. varsity jersey or maybe college club sport matching t-shirt.  She wears the uniform of our whole nation.  I'm gonna give her the benefit of the doubt.  But mostly so this fucking story will go away.  It's one thing to chat about it online but it's on every fucking news channel.  I turned on Bloomberg at work today and they were talking about it.  WTF?

To try and tie athletics and NSAA back together again, the real question about this whole ordeal is, is MacKayla Maroney impressed and what is she currently wearing? 

Edited by Lobo
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"She should just rub some dirt on it and (wo)man up and represent her country, it's the fucking Olympics, if she gets injured, so be it.  She's there for MY entertainment"   -Out of shape couch commentators who haven't played sports in 20 years

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3 minutes ago, Js1 said:

"She should just rub some dirt on it and (wo)man up and represent her country, it's the fucking Olympics, if she gets injured, so be it.  She's there for MY entertainment"   -Out of shape couch commentators who haven't played sports in 20 years

Yeah even those of us who were pretty serious athletes at one point were never world class. Simone has devoted her whole life to this. If she can't go it must be pretty serious. I trust she and her coaches know what is best for her and the team. It is not like we are a one woman show anyway.

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Sounds like a lot of back stage shit was getting to her about the committee saying she was too good, they were going to judge her harder than other competitors, her body type made her unfairly better, her amazing routines, and moves were causing other gymnasts to attempt more, and more dangerous moves. Not sure if that's true, but I've seen that reported on a couple sources.

An alleged host of typical IOC BS issues that if true maybe made her say fuck this, I've been training my entire life, and now you're gonna change the rules just for me ?!  That could have pushed her over the edge.  

Whatever it is, she's been hard as fucking nails her entire career, and this is just horrible for her, and her teammates.

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37 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

An alleged host of typical IOC BS issues that if true maybe made her say fuck this, I've been training my entire life, and now you're gonna change the rules just for me ?!  That could have pushed her over the edge.  

Yeah, that would make me say "fuck off", but I'm a Surly poster and by default, mentally weak.

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I don’t care that much about gymnastics and I suspect that most of us with hot takes don’t either. It might have been a wise decision or the best decision for her and/or her team. If you can’t go, you can’t go. 

Calling this brave or even heroic is a bit much. Honestly, there’s not much that happens in athletic competition that should be called heroic. Jackie Robinson was brave and heroic. All of the gymnasts, including Giles, who spoke out about Nassar were brave and possibly heroic. Kevin McHale playing through the playoffs on a broken foot — persevering through a difficult and painful trial — was “sports brave.”

Backing out may have been wise and she certainly deserves no hate for it, but it’s not even sports brave. All of the brave/hero talk reminded me of this:

 

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I read an interview with Ally Raisman before this happened and she was talking about how weird this Olympics probably is. In a normal year, it's awkward because you could be on the beam and then hear either the crowd gasping (if someone falls) or going wild (as someone lands something awesome) and it jolts you/scares you, but you are used to that. Gymnastics is such a focused/mental sport that being in an empty stadium and hearing the pen clicks of reporters and conversations and everything else has to be another wrinkle for gymnasts. 

That said, try to relate what happened to Simone to your own life. If you are a lawyer, have you ever had to present a case or try a case in front of the Supreme Court? If you are a businessman have you ever had to present to a BoD for 8 or 9 figures as the person who is solely responsible? Anything else similar?

Because I have had a couple of times had to perform solo (professionally) at the highest level and the pressure and stress and anxiety can hit you out of nowhere. It sucks for her, and maybe there is an element of mental strength and dexterity or lack thereof, but she's earned the benefit of the doubt here IMO.

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2 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I read an interview with Ally Raisman before this happened and she was talking about how weird this Olympics probably is. In a normal year, it's awkward because you could be on the beam and then hear either the crowd gasping (if someone falls) or going wild (as someone lands something awesome) and it jolts you/scares you, but you are used to that. Gymnastics is such a focused/mental sport that being in an empty stadium and hearing the pen clicks of reporters and conversations and everything else has to be another wrinkle for gymnasts. 

That said, try to relate what happened to Simone to your own life. If you are a lawyer, have you ever had to present a case or try a case in front of the Supreme Court? If you are a businessman have you ever had to present to a BoD for 8 or 9 figures as the person who is solely responsible? Anything else similar?

Because I have had a couple of times had to perform solo (professionally) at the highest level and the pressure and stress and anxiety can hit you out of nowhere. It sucks for her, and maybe there is an element of mental strength and dexterity or lack thereof, but she's earned the benefit of the doubt here IMO.

You'd think they'd pump in some white background noise to offset the dead quiet atmosphere.  Nothing harder than shooting a foul shot in a dead quiet gym.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Royalfan5 said:

I wonder how much having crowds at the Olympic Trials and then going back fucked with them instead of being empty the whole time. 

Here is the actual question she (Aly Raisman) responded to:

Can you imagine what it would be like to compete in the absence of a crowd?

There have been times when the crowd is really helpful and uplifting. Then there are also times when I’m doing a bar routine and someone on another event falls and you can hear the crowd gasp, or the crowd erupts for someone else, and it startles you. One of the hard things about beam finals, for example, was I felt like I could hear a pin drop. It’s so quiet in there, and sometimes you can hear the clicking of the cameras, you can hear someone talking in the audience, so that might be distracting. Gymnastics is not one of those sports where you want to be pumped up.

 

Edited by DonkeyCigars
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Jhawk (watching Simone drop out with intense mental fortitude):  "How much you wanna make a bet I can vault over them mountains?  Yeah, Team USA woulda put me in for Simone, we would've been Gold Champions.  No doubt."  

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6 hours ago, G650 said:

Yeah it really isn't though. She would risk being dead or a paraplegic just as much as those two.

Not true at all but I'm kind of over this debate so cheers. Alincoln gave you the free solo list. You used to have an F1 driver die at an even literally every 2 years. Up until around 1980. Even after that guys still die. Senna died in 1993 or 94.

Either way - has Biles ever smacked her head on the ground and spent months in the hospital? If not then using Lauda as an example is borderline offensive to the size of that guys nuts. Let's stick with Naomi Osaka or Phelps even. 

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22 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Not true at all but I'm kind of over this debate so cheers. Alincoln gave you the free solo list. You used to have an F1 driver die at an even literally every 2 years. Up until around 1980. Even after that guys still die. Senna died in 1993 or 94.

Either way - has Biles ever smacked her head on the ground and spent months in the hospital? If not then using Lauda as an example is borderline offensive to the size of that guys nuts. Let's stick with Naomi Osaka or Phelps even. 

Yea, I am on the side of Simone here as is naija and I think his argument is sound but using the analogies he used was a mental error and he should just admit as much because it doesn't detract one bit from his point.

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5 hours ago, Js1 said:

"She should just rub some dirt on it and (wo)man up and represent her country, it's the fucking Olympics, if she gets injured, so be it.  She's there for MY entertainment"   -Out of shape couch commentators who haven't played sports in 20 years

No one is going to care she quit in 2 weeks.

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At first I was like what a quitter, she is making excuses. Then realized I’ve been hospitalized twice for anxiety attacks, so wtf am I saying. Not sure she had an attack or whatever, but If she had anything close to one, no way she could compete. I was knocked on my ass for weeks after a major anxiety attack, worst feeling in the world. And I saw her laughing on the sideline and all that, but still, she obviously had some kind of breaking point. I grew up in a household where anxiety was a made up thing bla bla bla. I grew up thinking mental health was mainly just people complaining, was mostly BS, over-exaggerated. And boy did karma do one on my ass as I got in my mid 20’s and on. The only thing I hate is her timing, as another gymnast could have had an opportunity in her place. But, guess she thought she could overcome this.  

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5 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

You'd think they'd pump in some white background noise to offset the dead quiet atmosphere.  Nothing harder than shooting a foul shot in a dead quiet gym.

this would be a good idea but they practice in basically quiet gyms all the time

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7 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Yep. The basic analogy of the baseball pitcher pulling himself out of a game is a false comparison. The baseball pitcher knows a reliever can come in, and most likely with better stuff than he can throw. Gymnasts isn't structured like that. Maybe it should be, but its not. 

Not sure we can really say one way or the other. She had issues in warm ups. If she had pulled herself prior to the event, then whoever filled in for her may have done better. She turned in a terrible score because she tried to fight through it. Obviously we have no way of knowing if her replacement would've done better, but considering she got one of the worst scores out of the entire group, it's quite likely that a backup US gymnast is still better than at least 3 or 4 other gymnasts from around the world. Then Lee, filling in for Biles, tied for the highest overall score on the bars. Could Biles have done better than that? Maybe. Maybe not. I don't think the baseball analogy is terrible, it's just that gymnastics is quite a bit different in that there aren't millions of data points to compare them (i.e., lots of pitchers have been pulled and we know that's often the correct decision, not maybe gymnasts have so we don't really know).

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5 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I read an interview with Ally Raisman before this happened and she was talking about how weird this Olympics probably is. In a normal year, it's awkward because you could be on the beam and then hear either the crowd gasping (if someone falls) or going wild (as someone lands something awesome) and it jolts you/scares you, but you are used to that. Gymnastics is such a focused/mental sport that being in an empty stadium and hearing the pen clicks of reporters and conversations and everything else has to be another wrinkle for gymnasts. 

That said, try to relate what happened to Simone to your own life. If you are a lawyer, have you ever had to present a case or try a case in front of the Supreme Court? If you are a businessman have you ever had to present to a BoD for 8 or 9 figures as the person who is solely responsible? Anything else similar?

Because I have had a couple of times had to perform solo (professionally) at the highest level and the pressure and stress and anxiety can hit you out of nowhere. It sucks for her, and maybe there is an element of mental strength and dexterity or lack thereof, but she's earned the benefit of the doubt here IMO.

sure but she's been at the olympics and world championships many times before.  its not like it was her first time and she's 24 not 16.

she got the yips and pulled out.  her team needed her to try to fight through it because her starting scores are really high and of course she's the best in the world.

It might have been good if they would have at least let friends and family come.   seeing familiar faces in the crowd might calm you a bit and push you a bit.

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5 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

Not sure we can really say one way or the other. She had issues in warm ups. If she had pulled herself prior to the event, then whoever filled in for her may have done better. She turned in a terrible score because she tried to fight through it. Obviously we have no way of knowing if her replacement would've done better, but considering she got one of the worst scores out of the entire group, it's quite likely that a backup US gymnast is still better than at least 3 or 4 other gymnasts from around the world. Then Lee, filling in for Biles, tied for the highest overall score on the bars. Could Biles have done better than that? Maybe. Maybe not. I don't think the baseball analogy is terrible, it's just that gymnastics is quite a bit different in that there aren't millions of data points to compare them (i.e., lots of pitchers have been pulled and we know that's often the correct decision, not maybe gymnasts have so we don't really know).

If Biles goes they likely win. she probably picks up the whole team with her normal performances.  the floor routine from the one girl was a killer. probably a 2.5 to 3 point difference there but I'm not sure if she was a normal US floor participant.

that said the yips could have caused her to completely fall apart.

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Not true at all but I'm kind of over this debate so cheers. Alincoln gave you the free solo list. You used to have an F1 driver die at an even literally every 2 years. Up until around 1980. Even after that guys still die. Senna died in 1993 or 94.
Either way - has Biles ever smacked her head on the ground and spent months in the hospital? If not then using Lauda as an example is borderline offensive to the size of that guys nuts. Let's stick with Naomi Osaka or Phelps even. 

You seem to think that I brought up Lauda mainly as an example post his injury. No. The point was to show that even before his injury, he argued against the race going on. He thought the risk was too high and has always maintained that stance. You don’t have to get injured first before coming to that decision. Same as Honnold. You just think there should be a certain amount of bodily risk attached to the decision for it to be acceptable. And the risk that gymnasts face doesn’t meet your criteria/threshold. Even in the face of several gymnasts stating that the fear of ending up paralyzed or badly hurt is real. And given that it has happened, it’s not an irrational fear. I don’t think that their risk of injury needs to approach that of an F1 driver in the 1980s or a climber for that to be the case.

We talk to people about the risk of injury from surgery all the time. What people feel is acceptable is vastly different. What is universally true is that when it happens, it feels 100% to the person. Nobody self-consoles saying “well it was only a 0.5% chance”
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3 hours ago, ztejas said:

Not true at all but I'm kind of over this debate so cheers. Alincoln gave you the free solo list. You used to have an F1 driver die at an even literally every 2 years. Up until around 1980. Even after that guys still die. Senna died in 1993 or 94.

Either way - has Biles ever smacked her head on the ground and spent months in the hospital? If not then using Lauda as an example is borderline offensive to the size of that guys nuts. Let's stick with Naomi Osaka or Phelps even. 

I mean agree to disagree, it's all good. The point isn't the rate of incidence though it's what the outcome can be and stepping away from a dangerous situation proactively

I can tell you I've personally broken my back twice, collarbone, nose, myriad other bones wrecking autos and motorcycles at a high rate of speed. I am the last person to undersell what that entails, I tell people pretty regularly there is no way to adequately describe the forces in play in a wreck like that, it has to be experienced. But none of this changes the fact a gymnast could just as easily paralyze or kill themselves taking a header.

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9 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

Recipe for disaster? What disaster occured? 

Look if Simone can't go that sucks but we have a deep bench. Hope she gets herself right.

But the whole gender nationalist angle is really fucking annoying. Men! They are evil!! Once an athlete won a championship with a gimp leg 25 years ago!! Come on. Being a top athlete is a crazy business for crazy competitive people. I get that completely if doing the insane shit to be an Olympian isn't for you. It sure isn't for me. Go play intramurals, in the words of a Big 12 coach.

But I hope Simone feels better and gets out there and kicks ass. But if not hey next woman up. We will do our best to compete and win anyway. That's how it goes.

I’ve been taking care of athletes including female gymnasts for 25 years. There is no group that is more mentally and physically tough than they are. At the elite level they are all in pain every day during competition, just like pro football and basketball players. There is a video out there in slow motion narrated by a former gymnast. She was supposed to do a 2 1/2 on that move and you can tell after the half she had no idea where the fuck she was. She completed the full and somehow found the ground with her feet. She could have just as easily landed on her head or shoulders with the full weight of her body axially loading her spine in a flexed position. She would have been a para or a quad and you can tell by the look on her face she knew how close a call it was. 

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At some point every great athlete peaks and starts to lose it.  Not sure what's dumber, the armchair hot takes bashing her or the smothering PC media that burned 'The Emperor's New Clothes' circling the wagons. 

Anyway, she had a fantastic career and made America proud many times.  So thank you, Simone.

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I’ve been taking care of athletes including female gymnasts for 25 years. There is no group that is more mentally and physically tough than they are. At the elite level they are all in pain every day during competition, just like pro football and basketball players. There is a video out there in slow motion narrated by a former gymnast. She was supposed to do a 2 1/2 on that move and you can tell after the half she had no idea where the fuck she was. She completed the full and somehow found the ground with her feet. She could have just as easily landed on her head or shoulders with the full weight of her body axially loading her spine in a flexed position. She would have been a para or a quad and you can tell by the look on her face she knew how close a call it was. 
Not at your level, but I worked in ortho in Cypress, which is very much gymnast territory. They beat the shit out of their bodies even when they're not getting "injured". The stress lines on their tibias were insane. And we didn't treat any personally, but I heard of some horrific, life-altering injuries.
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