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Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it

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6 minutes ago, HRSchenker said:

Let me make sure I understand this. You believe that the Eyes of Texas is offensive as do some of the athletes. The claim is that the song is rooted in racism. You've sung the song in public many times. When asked when you plan to apologize for singing a song rooted in racism, your answer is never.

That is exactly why the football players, students, and alums who are asking the university to get rid of the song or replace it cannot and should not be taken seriously.

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10 minutes ago, HRSchenker said:

You believe that the Eyes of Texas is offensive as do some of the athletes.

No, I don't think The Eyes is offensive.

Quote

The claim is that the song is rooted in racism.

I have no idea what "rooted in racism" means.

I think the song itself is not racist. The fact that it was introduced at a minstrel show doesn't matter to me at all. I think it has a meaning and purpose entirely distinct from its racist introduction. Not "rooted" at all because The Eyes, in my expression and experience, isn't connected at all to that past.

Quote

When asked when you plan to apologize for singing a song rooted in racism, your answer is never.

You guys should deal with the arguments people make instead of the ones you wish they would make.

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Longhorn A: "The fact that The Eyes was introduced at a minstrel show doesn't bother me."
Longhorn B: "The fact that The Eyes was introduced at a minstrel show bothers me."

I am in category A, but I fully respect category B.

This isn't complicated to understand.

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1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

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He honestly has argued his way in and  out of every side of this issue claiming the song is not racist, is racist, while also supporting the song and saying it’s divisive and we are all acting like victims. It’s pretty awesome watching someone so mentally deficit get twisted up like a pretzel. 

Edited by Newy25

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13 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

He honestly has argued his way in and  out of every side of this issue claiming the dong is not racist, is racist, while also supporting the song and saying it’s divisive and we are all acting like victims. It’s pretty awesome watching someone so mentally deficit get twisted up like a pretzel. 

When did I argue that the song was racist?

I haven't ever argued that.

10/11 -

---------------------------------------
Your overall point is that the song itself is not racist. I will stipulate to that so I don't need or want to counter it. I'm glad you've done a lot of historical research to analyze the lyrics and origin of the song itself. That's great.

Whether or not the song itself is racist is not the only point of contention. There is more to it, whether you like it or not.
---------------------------------------

The song itself is not racist.
Its introduction to campus was at a racist event.

Some Longhorns can divorce the song from its originating event. (I'm one of those.)
Some can't. (I'm not one of those, but I fully respect the position.)

10/12

--------------------------

Yes. I am capable of supporting people who have a different perspective than me. I can have beliefs and don't need them validated by everyone else. I'm a grown man who is secure in himself and his values/beliefs/experiences. Shocking.

I am a white man with white man experiences. I didn't know about the song's history until I was an old man whose heart was already set regarding the tune. But intellectually I can acknowledge that I am not the center of all existence and that my personal connection to the song clouds my vision on it.

There's not a chance in hell I'm going to hear a black man say to me, "I don't want to sing a song whose history is connected to Lee and minstrelsy" and think anything but "Cool, makes sense. You've got your perspective and I'm 100% cool with it."

--------------------------

I've been extremely consistent this entire time.

 

Edited by bad_teammate

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2 hours ago, HRSchenker said:

Let me make sure I understand this. You believe that the Eyes of Texas is offensive as do some of the athletes. The claim is that the song is rooted in racism. You've sung the song in public many times. When asked when you plan to apologize for singing a song rooted in racism, your answer is never.

That is exactly why the football players, students, and alums who are asking the university to get rid of the song or replace it cannot and should not be taken seriously.

This attitude is exactly why the issue will continue to be a headache for the University of Texas.

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1 hour ago, Newy25 said:

He honestly has argued his way in and  out of every side of this issue claiming the song is not racist, is racist, while also supporting the song and saying it’s divisive and we are all acting like victims. It’s pretty awesome watching someone so mentally deficit get twisted up like a pretzel. 

Online trolls and bad faith actors don't always get to pick the topics they are instructed to muddle.  

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4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

So moving on, what is going to happen when a player or players don't stick around after the game?

If the team is winning, nothing.

If we suck, and it's a handful of benchwarmers, nobody cares

If we suck, and it's our top players, some grumbling online

If we suck, and it's the majority of the team, a lot of grumbling online and donors withholding money and questioning CDC and administration to show institutional support for our cherished alma mater

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12 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

So moving on, what is going to happen when a player or players don't stick around after the game?

Their head coach gets fired they get a new guy and the players actually understand what discipline is. The expectations are clear as day. 

Edited by BurntOrange&White
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1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Their head coach gets fired they get a new guy and the players actually understand what discipline is

And when that doesn't work?

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Just now, David Dennison said:

And if the player doesn't want to transfer?

Then he rides the bench. But if its such a huge deal to that player why would he want to stay anyway? 

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Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

Then he rides the bench. But if its such a huge deal to that player why would he want to stay anyway? 

Do you really think a starter is going to ride the bench because he won't stay for the Eyes of Texas?

Really?

Also, why wouldn't he want to stay? Maybe he thinks he can change something that he believes needs changing. Why cut and run?

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6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Do you really think a starter is going to ride the bench because he won't stay for the Eyes of Texas?

Really?

Also, why wouldn't he want to stay? Maybe he thinks he can change something that he believes needs changing. Why cut and run?

I just realized you have never played organized football, have you?

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15 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Do you really think a starter is going to ride the bench because he won't stay for the Eyes of Texas?

Really?

Also, why wouldn't he want to stay? Maybe he thinks he can change something that he believes needs changing. Why cut and run?

 

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2 minutes ago, Scooter Monzingo said:

I just realized you have never played organized football, have you?

I have. I also know a starter at the University of Texas has a lot more leverage than I did in high school.

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All the outrage about this is on message boards and twitter. With any luck we will all be hyped about Urban soon, players concerns will be addressed internally and honestly, and singing the Eyes of Texas will remain. The only difference is we will do it after watching a well coached team kick ass.

Well maybe with a lot of luck, but hope springs eternal I guess.

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15 minutes ago, UncleSonny said:

All the outrage about this is on message boards and twitter. With any luck we will all be hyped about Urban soon, players concerns will be addressed internally and honestly, and singing the Eyes of Texas will remain. The only difference is we will do it after watching a well coached team kick ass.

Well maybe with a lot of luck, but hope springs eternal I guess.

BUT WHAT IF THEY DONT!?!? /DD

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48 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I have. I also know a starter at the University of Texas has a lot more leverage than I did in high school.

A leader of a team heading toward a big12 championship and the playoff may have a little leverage.  For example Vince.   Anything less would be shown the door.  

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5 minutes ago, Knighthawk said:

A leader of a team heading toward a big12 championship and the playoff may have a little leverage.  For example Vince.   Anything less would be shown the door.  

They most certainly would not. That's ridiculous.

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3 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Id rather win games and sing Texas, Our Texas than lose games and continue to sing The Eyes

 

get rid of the song already

You should listen to this man. Have you seen what he makes?

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4 hours ago, David Dennison said:

I have. I also know a starter at the University of Texas has a lot more leverage than I did in high school.

Our starters are also about as good at football as you were in high school

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5 hours ago, David Dennison said:

So moving on, what is going to happen when a player or players don't stick around after the game?

Honestly?  Suspension. Ask them to hit the portal?  On some level of the boss draws a line in the sand and says this is the deal and this is the expectation and you refuse to meet that expectation you can’t and shouldn’t stay. 
that’s why as a boss you shouldn’t make ultimatums very often, but it sounds like they did. 
 But the right answer is probably to fire Herman. 

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5 hours ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

If the team is winning, nothing.

If we suck, and it's a handful of benchwarmers, nobody cares

If we suck, and it's our top players, some grumbling online

If we suck, and it's the majority of the team, a lot of grumbling online and donors withholding money and questioning CDC and administration to show institutional support for our cherished alma mater

See this is what i don't get. People openly admit the eyes of texas wouldnt be an issue if the team was winning....so then logic would lead me to conclude that they're only mad because the team sucks and are using it as an excuse to get people even more angry at the coach.

Edited by Pam Cummings

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10 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Honestly?  Suspension. Ask them to hit the portal?  On some level of the boss draws a line in the sand and says this is the deal and this is the expectation and you refuse to meet that expectation you can’t and shouldn’t stay. 
that’s why as a boss you shouldn’t make ultimatums very often, but it sounds like they did. 
 But the right answer is probably to fire Herman. 

Lmao, do you seriously think anyone would want to come here if that was the environment? Are you fucking aggy?

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7 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Lmao, do you seriously think anyone would want to come here if that was the environment? Are you fucking aggy?

If you disobey a direct order set down by the AD then you probably shouldn’t be here, period. That’s not aggy, that’s literally life. As someone who has managed/hired/fired over 100 people in my career it’s why I seldom make any line in the sand pronouncements- it’s generally bad to do that. But, defying the directives of the person in charge, in most settings and environments, is a non- negotiable. 
If the expectation is- the entire team will be there for the eyes and that doesn’t happen it’s a fireable or suspension worthy offense. 
I have no idea how the AD communicated those expectations. If he couched it as a suggestion or an ask then there’s wiggle room. He’s a pretty bright guy, I imagine he left himself an out or knows he will receive, at a bare minimum, compliance if its compulsory. 
but- if you don’t respect your leadership enough, in whatever situation you find yourself in to follow a direct order and are insubordinate, you ought to find leadership you can respect. Makes life easier/better. 

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12 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

If you disobey a direct order set down by the AD then you probably shouldn’t be here, period. That’s not aggy, that’s literally life. As someone who has managed/hired/fired over 100 people in my career it’s why I seldom make any line in the sand pronouncements- it’s generally bad to do that. But, defying the directives of the person in charge, in most settings and environments, is a non- negotiable. 
If the expectation is- the entire team will be there for the eyes and that doesn’t happen it’s a fireable or suspension worthy offense. 
I have no idea how the AD communicated those expectations. If he couched it as a suggestion or an ask then there’s wiggle room. He’s a pretty bright guy, I imagine he left himself an out or knows he will receive, at a bare minimum, compliance if its compulsory. 
but- if you don’t respect your leadership enough, in whatever situation you find yourself in to follow a direct order and are insubordinate, you ought to find leadership you can respect. Makes life easier/better. 

As someone who has managed/hired/fired over 100 people in my career .... that's one hell of a career. GTFO.

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1 minute ago, Royal With Cheese said:

As someone who has managed/hired/fired over 100 people in my career .... that's one hell of a career. GTFO.

Eh, I’m not bragging- I personally know of a couple people on here that can say that in the thousands and I’m sure some in the 10’s of thousands. And of course Chi Town with his 9 figure clinic play probably got us all topped. 
I would wager if you polled most people in leadership and asked them if direct insubordination of a stated directive could go unpunished they would say no way. Which is probably what DD’s hypothetical contemplated. But, I don’t think it’s an issue bc I don’t think we are likely there. But if we were there that would be my thought. 

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1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

See this is what i don't get. People openly admit the eyes of texas wouldnt be an issue if the team was winning....so then logic would lead me to conclude that they're only mad because the team sucks and are using it as an excuse to get people even more angry at the coach.

I think it’s more like if you found out that your kid stayed up an hour past their bedtime playing video games.  If they’re making all A’s you might let it slide, or just tell them not to do it again.  If they’re making all F’s there would probably be some consequences.  The team is making all F’s right now.

Edited by NeverMarryAStripper

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Only problem is they are not employees that you fire. They are students. And students are often taking self-righteous stances.

Except these students make this University hundreds of millions of dollars, and potentially glory on the field for those of us off of it.

 

Let it go for now. It's a weird fucking year. The band isn't even there. There is self-isolation concurrent with the threat of a pandemic. That was a kick in the nuts thrilling loss to ou with their players celebrating in the middle of the field.

I love the song too, but fuck it.

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So, we've literally reached the point that if the coach doesn't force his black players to stand and sing a song that offends them (some of them), then said coach should be fired?  There's a whole lot of shit that Herman should be fired for, but that ain't it.  And don't think for one moment that won't be used negatively against us in recruiting, and while that's something that UT could get through were it playing for championships and running a pipeline to the first round of the NFL draft, that ain't been UT for a decade.   OTOH, if we don't make them stand and sing a song that offends them we piss off a huge chunk of the alumni and big dick donors.  Just fuck 2020 all to hell already and start over.

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32 minutes ago, Lenny Hornridge said:

So, we've literally reached the point that if the coach doesn't force his black players to stand and sing a song that offends them (some of them), then said coach should be fired?  There's a whole lot of shit that Herman should be fired for, but that ain't it.  And don't think for one moment that won't be used negatively against us in recruiting, and while that's something that UT could get through were it playing for championships and running a pipeline to the first round of the NFL draft, that ain't been UT for a decade.   OTOH, if we don't make them stand and sing a song that offends them we piss off a huge chunk of the alumni and big dick donors.  Just fuck 2020 all to hell already and start over.

Do you even insubordination bro?

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33 minutes ago, Lenny Hornridge said:

So, we've literally reached the point that if the coach doesn't force his black players to stand and sing a song that offends them (some of them), then said coach should be fired?  There's a whole lot of shit that Herman should be fired for, but that ain't it.  And don't think for one moment that won't be used negatively against us in recruiting, and while that's something that UT could get through were it playing for championships and running a pipeline to the first round of the NFL draft, that ain't been UT for a decade.   OTOH, if we don't make them stand and sing a song that offends them we piss off a huge chunk of the alumni and big dick donors.  Just fuck 2020 all to hell already and start over.

You’re just a bundle of joy this early in the morning. 

Deep breaths, drink your coffee, take a shit and relax. It’s all going to be ok. 

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18 minutes ago, Randolph Duke said:

It’s all going to be ok. 

 

Henslowe: How will it?

Shakespeare: I don't know - its a mystery. 

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3 hours ago, Lenny Hornridge said:

So, we've literally reached the point that if the coach doesn't force his black players to stand and sing a song that offends them (some of them), then said coach should be fired?  There's a whole lot of shit that Herman should be fired for, but that ain't it.  And don't think for one moment that won't be used negatively against us in recruiting, and while that's something that UT could get through were it playing for championships and running a pipeline to the first round of the NFL draft, that ain't been UT for a decade.   OTOH, if we don't make them stand and sing a song that offends them we piss off a huge chunk of the alumni and big dick donors.  Just fuck 2020 all to hell already and start over.

Yep. It’s a real som of a bitch with no easy answer or likely good outcome for us. 

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4 hours ago, Lenny Hornridge said:

So, we've literally reached the point that if the coach doesn't force his black players to stand and sing a song that offends them (some of them), then said coach should be fired?  There's a whole lot of shit that Herman should be fired for, but that ain't it.  And don't think for one moment that won't be used negatively against us in recruiting, and while that's something that UT could get through were it playing for championships and running a pipeline to the first round of the NFL draft, that ain't been UT for a decade.   OTOH, if we don't make them stand and sing a song that offends them we piss off a huge chunk of the alumni and big dick donors.  Just fuck 2020 all to hell already and start over.

CDC does not want that pissed off chunk of alumni and big dick donors.  Money talks....

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19 hours ago, David Dennison said:

So moving on, what is going to happen when a player or players don't stick around after the game?

You will have an orgasm?  

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48 minutes ago, stork642 said:

You will have an orgasm?  

South Austin’s mom certainly will. 

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If our BSD donors are withholding money because our players don’t stay for a song, we have dumb and petty BSD donors.  But perhaps that’s redundant. 

Edited by A-Tex Devil
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1 minute ago, A-Tex Devil said:

If our BSD donors are withholding money because our players don’t stay for a song, we have dumb and petty BSD donors.  But perhaps that’s redundant. 

based on their input in head coaching hires you are probably right 

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