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mdmost

HBO's Watchmen series

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Just remembered that in ep 1, the castle on Mars that Doc Manhattan was destroying looked just like the castle Veidt is living in.

So I guess it's obvious--given other clues, as well--that DM has been holding Veidt prisoner somewhere?  And given he was trying to construct a space suit (at first I thought it was a deep sea diving suit) it seems as if he's not on earth.

The letter Veidt dictated was an invitation for a face to face meeting.  Wonder if we'll get to see DM soon.

This series is way better than I expected.

Also:  was confused about why Blake was laughing after the car dropped, but saw a video which pointed out it happened approx 40 seconds after she finished her call--the amount of time for the message to reach Mars, so the theory is it was Manhattan's response to her joke about the brick, indicating he was indeed listening and does have a sense of humor.

 

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Yup, that is how I read the car drop. I was just wondering if it is the car that was picked up with LGJ in it, from the prior episode. 

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Angela's car was an SUV. That looked like a smaller car. But yeah, that was pretty cool. 

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1 hour ago, mdmost said:

Angela's car was an SUV. That looked like a smaller car. But yeah, that was pretty cool. 

 

1 hour ago, bamachine said:

Yup, that is how I read the car drop. I was just wondering if it is the car that was picked up with LGJ in it, from the prior episode. 

 

They were both Infinitis and in the same color, just that the second one was crushed a bit.  It never occurred to me that they weren't the same car.  

I still don't like the whole "Lost" thing of deliberately keeping us in the dark and slow revealing what are basic plot ideas.  To me it's a way to hide the lack of progress story by turning the background information into a secret.  But I will admit the whole thing is just the right combination of weird and pedestrian to keep me watching.

And I think that Jean Smart (of all people) resurrecting her career through deep-thought, complex, comic-book TV (this and Legion) is the most interesting story of all.  I am waiting for Delta Burke to make an appearance.

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1 hour ago, Liquor and Poker said:

And I think that Jean Smart (of all people) resurrecting her career through deep-thought, complex, comic-book TV (this and Legion) is the most interesting story of all.  I am waiting for Delta Burke to make an appearance.

Yeah, had a crush on her a few decades ago.

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I think the car drop was the “brick” of the long joke she told, so maybe Dr. M has a sense of humor.

Also Imho this is the best cast on tv right now.

Edited by Sleep off ugly
Never mind someone done said it already

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2 hours ago, Liquor and Poker said:

  

I still don't like the whole "Lost" thing of deliberately keeping us in the dark and slow revealing what are basic plot ideas.  To me it's a way to hide the lack of progress story by turning the background information into a secret.  But I will admit the whole thing is just the right combination of weird and pedestrian to keep me watching.

Agree with this. The only redeeming quality is that if we are basically seeing the series through the lens of the main character, Angela, then she's just as lost as we are. Of course some of the scenes don't involve her at all, so she's fully blind to them.

Is Veidt trapped in some weird dimension or "prison" and he's building a mechanism to escape? I assume he shot his butler high into the atmosphere and he froze to death, not too mention failing to escape. It would seem that Veidt is the person who will ultimately get shot into the air but he's not going to experiment on himself. Veidt could possibly be trapped by Dr. Manhattan. 

random thought: throwing a suicide bomber into an open grave would seem to be enough to protect everyone. Dropping a casket with a body on top of it, could actually create more shrapnel. But then again I've never been to a funeral with an open grave with the casket next to it. 

 

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1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

random thought: throwing a suicide bomber into an open grave would seem to be enough to protect everyone. Dropping a casket with a body on top of it, could actually create more shrapnel.

It's also a very convenient way to get rid of a body before it can be examined by the Feds. I think the bomber was a cop and Judd was a clone.

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On 11/3/2019 at 10:37 PM, Js1 said:

Ooh oooh oooh Jean Smart is so fantastic 

 She's a gilf  no doubt.  It is a tragedy those apparently great tits have never been on public display.

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Young Jean was smokin' hot. Wound up marrying a guy from Ft. Worth.

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16 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Agree with this. The only redeeming quality is that if we are basically seeing the series through the lens of the main character, Angela, then she's just as lost as we are. Of course some of the scenes don't involve her at all, so she's fully blind to them.

Is Veidt trapped in some weird dimension or "prison" and he's building a mechanism to escape? I assume he shot his butler high into the atmosphere and he froze to death, not too mention failing to escape. It would seem that Veidt is the person who will ultimately get shot into the air but he's not going to experiment on himself. Veidt could possibly be trapped by Dr. Manhattan. 

random thought: throwing a suicide bomber into an open grave would seem to be enough to protect everyone. Dropping a casket with a body on top of it, could actually create more shrapnel. But then again I've never been to a funeral with an open grave with the casket next to it. 

 

I felt the phone booth and the bank robbery scenes did well enough to initiate people to *some* of the background of the series. 

Veidt is definitely trapped somewhere.  But by whom?  Dr Manhattan left earth because he stopped giving a shit about its fate, so he wouldnt care at all about Earth to protect it from Veidt... but then again, im going off the Movie canon, whereas the show is based on the comics.  Maybe the other 'heros' trapped him after the Squid thing.  Perhaps Owl used his flying contraption to dump him somewhere?

 

Little Keene is definitely a bad dude.

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and this lebowski quote is apt: "Oh boy. How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm once they've seen Manhattans dildo. "

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The comic ended similar to the graphic novel with some exceptions. Rorschach gets obliterated by Dr Manhattan though Nite Owl doesn't see it like in the movie. Nite Owl and Silk Spectre go off to bone. Dr Manhattan and Veidt talk about what he did but Dr Manhattan just leaves to go back to Mars or elsewhere. Veidt is left questioning that what he did was right. Later, Nite Owl and Silk Spectre are shown having dyed their hair and assuming new identities. 

I think it's more likely that Veidt set up a game for himself where he's trying to get off the island that his castle is on. Though it's possible the governments of the world trapped him there for his crime. I highly doubt Dr Manhattan is doing anything though with his powers he could definitely work to keep Veidt trapped while on another planet. 

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22 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Are we all assuming Doc Johnson was the second shooter at Angela’s House?  

I'm not assuming it, but it's a possibility.

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8 hours ago, mdmost said:

The comic ended similar to the graphic novel with some exceptions. Rorschach gets obliterated by Dr Manhattan though Nite Owl doesn't see it like in the movie. Nite Owl and Silk Spectre go off to bone. Dr Manhattan and Veidt talk about what he did but Dr Manhattan just leaves to go back to Mars or elsewhere. Veidt is left questioning that what he did was right. Later, Nite Owl and Silk Spectre are shown having dyed their hair and assuming new identities. 

I think it's more likely that Veidt set up a game for himself where he's trying to get off the island that his castle is on. Though it's possible the governments of the world trapped him there for his crime. I highly doubt Dr Manhattan is doing anything though with his powers he could definitely work to keep Veidt trapped while on another planet. 

I'll be really surprised if Dr M is not Veidt's "game warden."  And i'll be surprised if his prison is not on Mars.

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2 hours ago, Augustus said:

I'll be really surprised if Dr M is not Veidt's "game warden."  And i'll be surprised if his prison is not on Mars.

Good call

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If I recall movie cannon correctly, Viedt used Dr. Manhatten's abilities to nuke new york by spending billions to block his ability to see into the future and tricking him into building a bomb saying it was an energy source, and so the entire world thought Dr Manhatten was responsible, which is why he self exiled to Mars. Nobody would know the truth it was actually Viedt, which might be why the Senator told Agent Blake if he was President he could "pardon" anybody. Niteowl and Silk Spectre agreed to keep quiet because in the end it United the world who was on the brink of Nuclear War with the Soviets, we were 5 minutes on the Doomsday clock, with Nixon going to DEFCON 2 to pre-emptively strike. Viedt gave everyone a supernatural enemy to hate, and it ended the cold war. Rorschach being a total badass couldn't comprisise his principles and keep quiet about the truth like Nite Owl and Silk Spectre, so Dr. Manhatten had to blow him up. 

 

It's one of the things that makes the movie great, who's the real heroes here? Do the ends justify the means?

Edited by MillerEP

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This is based on the graphic novel where Veidt manufactured a giant squid that was beamed into New York and destroyed the city. He was able to use the same power Dr Manhattan uses to teleport the giant squid in. 

watchmen-squid.jpg?fit=bounds&width=640&

dd0e2-watchmen_03.jpg

Edited by mdmost

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6 hours ago, Augustus said:

I'll be really surprised if Dr M is not Veidt's "game warden."

That's fucking interesting man.

Why do you think that?

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I thought the same thing on my second viewing.
People were already theorizing that Don Johnson was Nite Owl.  There was the newspaper headline that said Veidt was dead in the first episode (IIRC).
So, Veidt used a clone of himself to fake his death and go to wherever he is to put on kickass plays about Dr. Manhattan and create tomato trees - then uses a clone of Don Johnson to fake *his* death and bring him wherever he is?  LGJ is somehow connected?  There is no spoon?

If Don Johnson was Nite Owl wouldn’t Jean Smart have recognized him from the photo? If he was/is and she did, then she must be in on his death being faked.

Color me skeptical on that theory.

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5 hours ago, DDD Dad said:


If Don Johnson was Nite Owl wouldn’t Jean Smart have recognized him from the photo? If he was/is and she did, then she must be in on his death being faked.

Color me skeptical on that theory.

Nite Owl is in jail.  That’s why Keene said if he was president he could even pardon that owl out of its cage or something like that. 

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On 11/4/2019 at 4:49 PM, ChickenSandwich said:

Are we all assuming Doc Johnson was the second shooter at Angela’s House?  

Never read the comics or seen the movie. Just picked up and watched the 1st (3) episodes in succession the other night. So not sure which episode it was in. But there was a flashback to the "White Night" or whatever. It shows Angela w/ her husband as the clock hits midnight. The gunmen walk in and direct their attack towards her. Maybe I missed something, but what happened to the husband during all that? They don't show him at all after the attack starts nor mention anything about him during or after it all. It's like he wasn't there or something. Maybe i'm nitpicking their cinematic discretion, but just struck me as odd that he's absent from the scene after they break in.

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2 hours ago, Horns RD Standard said:

Never read the comics or seen the movie. Just picked up and watched the 1st (3) episodes in succession the other night. So not sure which episode it was in. But there was a flashback to the "White Night" or whatever. It shows Angela w/ her husband as the clock hits midnight. The gunmen walk in and direct their attack towards her. Maybe I missed something, but what happened to the husband during all that? They don't show him at all after the attack starts nor mention anything about him during or after it all. It's like he wasn't there or something. Maybe i'm nitpicking their cinematic discretion, but just struck me as odd that he's absent from the scene after they break in.

Yeah I think that was left vague on purpose.

The last we saw was the second shooter standing over Angela then she wakes up in the hospital.  The fact that the second shooter didn't kill her (and how/why her husband wasn't harmed) is why people are speculating that Don Johnson was the second shooter.  Also the fact that his name was "Judd" is curious, given that Judd was the antagonist in the Oklahoma musical, which was (obviously) heavily referenced in episode 1.

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15 hours ago, Bookman said:

That's fucking interesting man.

Why do you think that?

Well if DM was literally the person ozy was talking to, that brings back the conversation about whether or not he can look human. 

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On 11/4/2019 at 12:27 PM, Liquor and Poker said:

And I think that Jean Smart (of all people) resurrecting her career through deep-thought, complex, comic-book TV (this and Legion) is the most interesting story of all.  I am waiting for Delta Burke to make an appearance.

She's also the Depression Kitty on Big Mouth.

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8 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Does anybody have an elevator speech for "I'm not a comic book guy" coworkers? 

Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach.  This city is afraid of me.  I have seen it's true face.  The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown.  The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"...
 
...and I'll look down, and whisper "no."

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I’m not in on the game warden being DM.  That’s too easy for Lindelof.  It’s most likely a character we haven’t been introduced to yet.  

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As far as super powers go, my take was always that vigilantes had abilities that are probably 10-20% above the upper limit for regular humans in whatever trait they excel at, with some exceptions of truly remarkable individuals like Ozy. Nobody is going to be lifting cars over their head, but regular humans aren't going to challenge them without force multipliers. For example, Glass has an ability of perception/evaluation that is well beyond even the top 1% of the population. Heros like Red Scare and Night are probably on the bottom range of ability, but still among the top 0.1%, which allows them to do what they do.

No clue how someone like Panda fits in all that, though. Maybe he is a poser or a former vigilante who has let himself really go downhill.

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The Craig Mazin Watchman podcast with Lindeloff is worth a listen.

Available on Apple podcasts and pretty much everywhere else.

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The building puzzle her daughter was working on when Angela told her the Sheriff was dead was also Veidt's castle.

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Rewatched too. Some of the direct from the comic quotes were pretty heavy handed. But it does still hold up. 

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7 hours ago, NOMAAA said:

how closely are you watching?

 

 

I thought it was a girl at first as well.

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On 10/27/2019 at 1:05 PM, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Good take.  Also the Kavalry is spelled with a K further emphasizing a link to the Klan.

They also reference “Refordations” which according to show interviews is a pejorative name for a permanent tax exempt status for victims and their direct descendants of racial violence. When the suspect is interrogated and he agrees that all American should pay taxes, that is considered an anti-govt or racist statement.

whether people can accept it or not, I think watchmen is going to be a very political story with loose tie-ins to current political issues. I imagine some will turn off the show because they see it as an attack on the Right.

I just watched the first episode tonight I knew nothing of the graphic novel or the 2009 movie. Have read a bunch tonight and have sort of caught up.

I think the kid said "Redfordations" alluding to President Robert Redford, who I guess is in office now. There was graffiti in Nixonville that said "Fuck Redford" or something when Regina King went in and snagged the dude from his trailer.

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The "Redfordations" are a restitution type program setup by Redford, for the victims and their descendants of the attacks seen in the first episode. So the racists automatically hate them.

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The Craig Mazin Watchman podcast with Lindeloff is worth a listen.

Available on Apple podcasts and pretty much everywhere else.

Y’all really
Should listen to this. Especially if, like me, you never read the graphic novel.

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14 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I’m watching fm the film right now. Oh, it holds up. 
 

Rorschach‘s “you’re locked in here with me” scene is a great prison movie scene. RIP 

Amazon prime had the movie free and in three versions. Original release, Directors cut and one that showed the whole in movie comic book about the pirate. 

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