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JimmyJames

Yogurt shop murders

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1991. Long time Austinites know what I’m talkin about. DNA evidence but still to this day and age where murders from the 70s are getting solved but still no leads? Who’s still lookin at this? Why does it seem like its been forgotten.

Those four dipshits didn’t do it. So who did. They have the DNA...

 

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Those old cases are being solved using the home test kit dna databases compiled by things like ancestry.com and 23andme.com who turn your DNA over to cops. It's very possible no one has taken the time or spent the money to buy the DNA access from those companies. 

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I grew up in that neighborhood but had moved away by the time those girls got killed.  I never knew them but we had some common friends.  I remember when they arrested those guys a few years later but I don't remember what it was that let them off the hook. 

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I turned mine in under my old lady's name, just in case I blacked out and did something like this.  Shit goes down, she's busted and I'm outta here!

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Too long a story to detail here, but they thought they found at least two of the killers in 1999. They went to trial and were convicted.However their conviction was overturned on appeal because it was ruled that the trials were unfair and that the confessions were coerced.

Technically, they are still suspects but there's nothing to link them to the crime and it's really up in the air as to whether they could have done it. The only DNA that's been found belongs to neither of them, and they still don't know who it does belong to.

There was talk of retrials in 2009 or 2010 but those have long since been abandoned. One of the four suspects was killed in a traffic stop a few years ago where he pulled out a knife and stabbed a cop, who was able to shoot him dead.

Case officially is still open and at least one detective is assigned to it, but it has really gone cold since 2009. My guess is it will never be solved.

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1 hour ago, Your Mom said:

I grew up in that neighborhood but had moved away by the time those girls got killed.  I never knew them but we had some common friends.  I remember when they arrested those guys a few years later but I don't remember what it was that let them off the hook. 

Mmmmhmmmm. Sounds like you’re hiding something.

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1 hour ago, Your Mom said:

I grew up in that neighborhood but had moved away by the time those girls got killed.  I never knew them but we had some common friends.  I remember when they arrested those guys a few years later but I don't remember what it was that let them off the hook. 

sounds like something a killer would say 

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3 hours ago, Junior Miller said:

What if he really is the killer? Like the rock guy was too. 

No doubt the killer(s) posts on Surly.

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6 hours ago, phdhorn said:

Too long a story to detail here, but they thought they found at least two of the killers in 1999. They went to trial and were convicted.However their conviction was overturned on appeal because it was ruled that the trials were unfair and that the confessions were coerced.

Technically, they are still suspects but there's nothing to link them to the crime and it's really up in the air as to whether they could have done it. The only DNA that's been found belongs to neither of them, and they still don't know who it does belong to.

There was talk of retrials in 2009 or 2010 but those have long since been abandoned. One of the four suspects was killed in a traffic stop a few years ago where he pulled out a knife and stabbed a cop, who was able to shoot him dead.

Case officially is still open and at least one detective is assigned to it, but it has really gone cold since 2009. My guess is it will never be solved.

I’ve always been curious what the DNA collected from the scene actually entails at what was an otherwise busy dessert shop?  

I wonder if APD has reason to believe it’s the critical piece in solving the crime or it could just be something like a used spoon from one of the patrons from earlier in the day.  

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I’ve always been curious what the DNA collected from the scene actually entails at what was an otherwise busy dessert shop?  
I wonder if APD has reason to believe it’s the critical piece in solving the crime or it could just be something like a used spoon from one of the patrons from earlier in the day.  

Huh? I am pretty sure that it’s believed to be dna of the killer as it was collected from the 13 year old girl he raped prior to killing them all and setting the shop on fire.

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7 hours ago, phdhorn said:

Too long a story to detail here, but they thought they found at least two of the killers in 1999. They went to trial and were convicted.However their conviction was overturned on appeal because it was ruled that the trials were unfair and that the confessions were coerced.

Technically, they are still suspects but there's nothing to link them to the crime and it's really up in the air as to whether they could have done it. The only DNA that's been found belongs to neither of them, and they still don't know who it does belong to.

There was talk of retrials in 2009 or 2010 but those have long since been abandoned. One of the four suspects was killed in a traffic stop a few years ago where he pulled out a knife and stabbed a cop, who was able to shoot him dead.

Case officially is still open and at least one detective is assigned to it, but it has really gone cold since 2009. My guess is it will never be solved.

This happened in my backyard.  Pretty much literally.  After the traffic stop at Parmer/McNeil, the dude stabbed the cop and jumped fences through my neighborhood with the cops chasing him.  The cop got off a shot that hit him but didn't kill him immediately.  The gunshot woke me up because it sounded extremely close (it was next door) and I grabbed my wife and had her duck down low while I crept around the house trying to figure out what was going on.  Later on they figured out that my yard was one of the last that he jumped through, then he became too weak and was crawling up the street.  He died about three doors down.  Cops barricaded both ends of the street from that point (maybe around midnight?) until mid-afternoon the next day while they assessed the crime scene.  They interviewed us the next day, and then the TV stations did too. I ended up on one of the news channels in a blurb later that day.

 

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16 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:


Huh? I am pretty sure that it’s believed to be dna of the killer as it was collected from the 13 year old girl he raped prior to killing them all and setting the shop on fire.

Oh shit, I didn't recall there was a rape component to the case?  I thought it was gunshots to the head then arson.  

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Oh shit, I didn't recall there was a rape component to the case?  I thought it was gunshots to the head then arson.  

Most are taking a tiny leap in logic, but the dna came from a rape kit swab. Obviously there is a chance it was unrelated to the killer, but not likely (I guess?).

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30 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

I was actually at that store, that night. True story bro.

APD needs a blood, urine, stool, and semen sample from you. So drop off yesterday's underwear at the nearest station please

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5 minutes ago, Dennis Taylor said:

APD needs a blood, urine, stool, and semen sample from you. So drop off yesterday's underwear at the nearest station please

Luckily I have the great excuse of being only 11 at the time

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18 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

Luckily I have the great excuse of being only 11 at the time

Sounds like an excuse a killer would use 

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8 hours ago, phdhorn said:

Case officially is still open and at least one detective is assigned to it, but it has really gone cold since 2009. My guess is it will never be solved.

Leads, yeah sure. I'll uh, just check with the boys down at the Crime Lab. They uh, got uh, four more detectives working on the case. They've got us working in shifts.  

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Speaking of cold cases, sometime in the late 1970s a middle age couple that ran a little bookstore on the SW corner of Baker Lane & I-35  were shot to death inside their store. The killer was never caught.

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Grew up in that area and went to that store all the time.  Became friends with a girl a few years later who said that she was supposed to go to the shop with one of the younger girls that night but got grounded.  Who knows if it was true, but as a 14 yr old you believe almost anything, especially with all the talk and theories about it. 

A lot of people feel like that was a moment in the city when Austin became a big city and you didn't feel safe anymore.

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24 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Speaking of cold cases, sometime in the late 1970s a middle age couple that ran a little bookstore on the SW corner of Baker Lane & I-35  were shot to death inside their store. The killer was never caught.

*Braker Lane*

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My office was just around the corner on Shoal Creek when this happened.  I remember going over there to get a bagel next door and seeing the cars, crime scene tape, etc...  Brings back memories.  

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8 minutes ago, 1978horn said:

Grew up in that area and went to that store all the time.  Became friends with a girl a few years later who said that she was supposed to go to the shop with one of the younger girls that night but got grounded.  Who knows if it was true, but as a 14 yr old you believe almost anything, especially with all the talk and theories about it. 

A lot of people feel like that was a moment in the city when Austin became a big city and you didn't feel safe anymore.

The grandparents of one of the victims ran a jewelry store up on Peyton Gin Road near Lanier HS. They were very nice folks. One of the grandparents passed away just a few months after the murders, undoubtedly brought on by grief.

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12 hours ago, Your Mom said:

I grew up in that neighborhood but had moved away by the time those girls got killed.  I never knew them but we had some common friends.  I remember when they arrested those guys a few years later but I don't remember what it was that let them off the hook. 

What eventually let them off the hook, after one of them spent some time on death row by the way, was they didn’t do it as shown by DNA evidence that matched none of them.

It never really made sense that they could have somehow pulled it off anyway. Those dipshits not only raped and murdered four girls but also somehow successfully covered it up by starting a fire? No fucking way. 

Hundreds of people have confessed yet Travis county took their confessions and ran with it. One of which not only was obviously coerced but didn’t even match the actual crime. Yet to my knowledge APD still to this day considers them the prime suspects. 

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13 hours ago, Junior Miller said:

Those old cases are being solved using the home test kit dna databases compiled by things like ancestry.com and 23andme.com who turn your DNA over to cops. It's very possible no one has taken the time or spent the money to buy the DNA access from those companies. 

This is our concern dude. 

I’m sure there’s an APD detective out there who can spare a couple hours with a $100 or so investigation budget. 

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8 hours ago, Patricio Swayze said:


Most are taking a tiny leap in logic, but the dna came from a rape kit swab. Obviously there is a chance it was unrelated to the killer, but not likely (I guess?).

If the have DNA from the possible killer, why don't they run it through ancestry, 23andme or one of the other services?  That's how they're solving most of these old cold cases (i.e., they'll find relatives of the person and investigate from there).

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10 minutes ago, CDAK said:

If the have DNA from the possible killer, why don't they run it through ancestry, 23andme or one of the other services?  That's how they're solving most of these old cold cases (i.e., they'll find relatives of the person and investigate from there).

You should call the local police station with that exact recommendation. 

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7 hours ago, Armybrat said:

Speaking of cold cases, sometime in the late 1970s a middle age couple that ran a little bookstore on the SW corner of Baker Lane & I-35  were shot to death inside their store. The killer was never caught.

Verrrrry txtow-ish

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1 hour ago, CDAK said:

If the have DNA from the possible killer, why don't they run it through ancestry, 23andme or one of the other services?  That's how they're solving most of these old cold cases (i.e., they'll find relatives of the person and investigate from there).

That’s a very good question. To my knowledge, they never even ran it through CODIS. Just a bunch of “it’s only a partial DNA” doublespeak...

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5 hours ago, CDAK said:

If the have DNA from the possible killer, why don't they run it through ancestry, 23andme or one of the other services?  That's how they're solving most of these old cold cases (i.e., they'll find relatives of the person and investigate from there).

The window on that is closing fast - a bunch of these services are closing up their loopholes that were allowing the cops and forensic genealogists to do this.  People were/are pissed, and a lot of people that hadn't done the tests before now, were all of the sudden getting cold feet about possibly opening up a relative to charges.   From some writing and a couple of seminars I gave, I know people at some of these companies, and they are catching a lot of flak, and/or facing a lot of "I THOUGHT MY DNA DATA WAS PRIVATE, BUT YOU'RE LETTING THE FEDS/POLICE JUST SIFT THROUGH IT".

Not helped by the fact that genealogy as a hobby skews older, and old folks can be suspicious of everything.

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19 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

The window on that is closing fast - a bunch of these services are closing up their loopholes that were allowing the cops and forensic genealogists to do this.  People were/are pissed, and a lot of people that hadn't done the tests before now, were all of the sudden getting cold feet about possibly opening up a relative to charges.   From some writing and a couple of seminars I gave, I know people at some of these companies, and they are catching a lot of flak, and/or facing a lot of "I THOUGHT MY DNA DATA WAS PRIVATE, BUT YOU'RE LETTING THE FEDS/POLICE JUST SIFT THROUGH IT".

Not helped by the fact that genealogy as a hobby skews older, and old folks can be suspicious of everything.

In this particular case, I don’t think the problem is they’re worried about time running out on finding something, I think what they are terrified of is what they might actually find. I think that’s always been the case here. 

The earlier posted movie “hunt for red October “ gif “you arrogant ass you killed us” is fitting here. Some people would probably just wish this went away forever. Austin has definitely prospered in the interim. 

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14 hours ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

I was actually at that store, that night. True story bro.

Did you see the guy in the army fatigue jacket who only ordered a coke (no yogurt) then went to the back to go to the bathroom? 

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13 hours ago, Native Horn said:

Leads, yeah sure. I'll uh, just check with the boys down at the Crime Lab. They uh, got uh, four more detectives working on the case. They've got us working in shifts.  

Ah man... lodged where?

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57 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

In this particular case, I don’t think the problem is they’re worried about time running out on finding something, I think what they are terrified of is what they might actually find. I think that’s always been the case here. 

The earlier posted movie “hunt for red October “ gif “you arrogant ass you killed us” is fitting here. Some people would probably just wish this went away forever. Austin has definitely prospered in the interim. 

It does feel odd.  

I love a good conspiracy theory, but I lean towards gross incompetence.  

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36 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

Brat still remembers and continues the search for the servant girl annihilator.

Servant Girl Annihilator will be the name of my band, should I ever start one.  

Servant Girl Annihilator was also armybrat’s nickname among the bordellos of 1890s Austin.  

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2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Not helped by the fact that genealogy as a hobby skews older, and old folks can be suspicious of everything.

Yeah, absolutely no reason to not trust the government to protect your rights and privacy

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13 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

The window on that is closing fast - a bunch of these services are closing up their loopholes that were allowing the cops and forensic genealogists to do this.  People were/are pissed, and a lot of people that hadn't done the tests before now, were all of the sudden getting cold feet about possibly opening up a relative to charges.   From some writing and a couple of seminars I gave, I know people at some of these companies, and they are catching a lot of flak, and/or facing a lot of "I THOUGHT MY DNA DATA WAS PRIVATE, BUT YOU'RE LETTING THE FEDS/POLICE JUST SIFT THROUGH IT".

Not helped by the fact that genealogy as a hobby skews older, and old folks can be suspicious of everything.

Ok, do it now before the window closes.  Or do it two years ago or whenever these enhanced DNA techniques became available.  

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