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Hey PK -- What would you say you do here?


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3 minutes ago, JBJ said:

We played a lot the last two weeks against the two worst rushing teams in the B12.  It didn't get better, it probably got worse.

Which is why continuity is meaningless. There are so many things fundamentally and schematically wrong with what we are doing. Getting a bunch of marginally better players from the portal and freshman isn’t going to fix much.

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1 minute ago, Thatguy said:

Bro you know I was the first to clown on Diaz, but then he left and got his mojo back. After awhile we have to start pointing the finger at us. We're the woman who's on her 5th husband and its not working out. But she swears its them.

Manny Diaz has followed the same path every single place he has been. His defenses work for a year or two and then go directly downhill. He has no one to blame but himself. 

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At some point, someone has got to come off a block.

Every other team out there can pressure the QB at least once in a while with 4 defenders. Our guys will get locked up and stay stuck. When we bring a 5th or 6th guy, they get picked up and stay picked up. It's rare that I see a RB run through a busted hole (at least until later in the game on like the 80th play). Usually, there's defenders near him, but they're all tied up.

It can't always be a blown holding call. Someone has to defeat the block of his opponent. That's "want to". I'm sure the coaches can teach that technique better, so I'm not sticking it all on one place. Eventually, though, there's gotta be pride in the front of the jersey enough to get Bo Davis level angry and throw off the blocker.

Coaches can train you and give you the technique. You have to bring the ganas.

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1 hour ago, 4th and 5 said:

If the D line has the most talented number of bodies, why not 4 down lineman?

Just my opinion. Texas just has a massive whole on the edge. That isnt a shock given that Orlando didnt recruit the position and the coaches were grabbing bodies out of the portal immediately there. The talent is at DT, but it is not exactly special. Texas would essentially be going to a 4 DT look, which should help the run and do nothing for the pass rush. Also don think there is a lot of depth for that. If you go 4 DL, it is Coburn, Sweat, Collins, and Ojomo. Who it coming off the bench? Broughton? Welch?  The other issue is I am not sure I would make massive scheme changes to my system to go from terrible to below average in year 1. Sadly, I think the pass defense maybe worse than the run defense. it just has not really been tested. 

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I’ll just put the exact quote from the presser here:

“These guys have been doing it at a championship level for a long time. I’m sure they’ve had rough years in their past before. But those tough times haven’t lasted. Those guys have. They’ve figured it out and turned it around and coached at a high level for a long time.”

You can decide if this is a giant, blatant, glaring clue that PK will be back or not.

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6 hours ago, Thatguy said:

  You keep doing this but have yet to show me a defensive coach who changed their scheme.

you keep doing this. 7WS is the one saying changing scheme.  if he's that dumb to keep PK and ask him to change his scheme(which is impossible, apparently) then maybe 7WS shouldn't be a head coach.

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11 minutes ago, Snacks said:

I have decided we're trying to keep commits.

Anything else guessing.

This.. Nothing the Admin or the Coaches should be taken as anything other than recruiting related right now. The season is over. Dec 16th is when you start paying attention to what they say. Only reason to make a change now would be, because you are adding a recruiting witch that comes with players. 

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2 hours ago, Thatguy said:

   Once again, flexibility inside of a scheme and a scheme change are two different things. Aranda is still working inside the 3-4 platform he has been running forever. We've run a bajillion different looks. Anywhere from 2-5 man fronts, nickel and dime, and cover 1 thru quarters on the back end. What his scheme, regardless of how many men are on the LOS, asks the players to do up front appears to be something they are not good at or we don't teach well. Regardless, every DC we've had has come here and run into the same problem. Manny did. Charlie did. Orlando did. And now PK has. All these guys were good DCs before they got here and then we broke them. I think the problem is us. Here is what I think it is.

  I think we have a couple issues. I think we are playing kids too early. Tossing them out there before they've learned their craft. There are two types of players. You have the lower star try hard guys who didn't have the sheer athletic ability but through effort made to the collegiate level. Then you have the talented guys who's technique is bad but overcame it through sheer ability. Baylor gets the former. We get the latter. So when you play a guy like that he is really raw, and makes a lot of technical mistakes. I believe we've been playing dudes too early and they develop bad technique, but then they compound the problem by being the toxic yeah yeah coach I got it guys. I cannot think of any other reason these coaches are struggling here. It makes sense when you add in the fact that the only two DCs to come in here and be successful were guys who ran high school level defensive schemes that the guys probably already played and thus could be effective.

whose

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2 minutes ago, CurlyDumps said:

Nowhere. Just said they need to “look at” it or something to improve the pass rush. Which could just mean adjustments to the current scheme. 

Scheme isnt going to fix the pass rush problem, unless they are going to go uber aggressive blitz mode

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Scheme isnt going to fix the pass rush problem, unless they are going to go uber aggressive blitz mode

Our first problem is holding up against the run. Running Thornton opposite Ovie/Bush was never going to work. We have big bodies that could have at least forced more teams in more passing downs.

The next problem is pass rush and coverage. You work that in gameplanning and disguising coverages and blitzes.
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16 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:


Our first problem is holding up against the run. Running Thornton opposite Ovie/Bush was never going to work. We have big bodies that could have at least forced more teams in more passing downs.

The next problem is pass rush and coverage. You work that in gameplanning and disguising coverages and blitzes.

I commented on pass rush, but honestly I dont even think Texas has the horses to run a 4 DL. Coburn, Ojomo, Collins, Sweat, and Murphy are essentially all DT types. Go to a 4 man DL and it is Collins, Sweat ,Coburn and Ojomo starting. What does the next group look like? Keep in mind Coburn is good for about 4-6 plays and tires. Back ups are Murphy, Broughton, and Welch on the inside. In that group only Murphy has shown he deserves some playing time. On the edge you have Ovie, Davis, and Thorton for back-ups. Probably use Ovie as a sub for passing downs. For all the BS about the DL being the strength, what people are really saying is DT is deep. That depth disappears when you put out essentially 4 DTs to man a 4 man front. That said I am not sure the pass defense is better than the rush defense. I am of the opinion it is all ass.

Edited by Codaxx
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3 hours ago, CurlyDumps said:

Nowhere. Just said they need to “look at” it or something to improve the pass rush. Which could just mean adjustments to the current scheme. 

yes he said they need to look at the scheme. could mean adjustments, could mean change more than that.

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5 hours ago, CurlyDumps said:

I’ll just put the exact quote from the presser here:

“These guys have been doing it at a championship level for a long time. I’m sure they’ve had rough years in their past before. But those tough times haven’t lasted. Those guys have. They’ve figured it out and turned it around and coached at a high level for a long time.”

You can decide if this is a giant, blatant, glaring clue that PK will be back or not.

Show me where is wrong in this quote?

PK - coached a defense to the CFP

Davis - won championships at Alabama

Choate - took his team to the FCS playoffs

Joseph - coordinated the secondary for a team that made the CFP

Gideon - has a young coaching career, but played for a championship at Texas.

Edited by HtownHorn
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9 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

I commented on pass rush, but honestly I dont even think Texas has the horses to run a 4 DL. Coburn, Ojomo, Collins, Sweat, and Murphy are essentially all DT types. Go to a 4 man DL and it is Collins, Sweat ,Coburn and Ojomo starting. What does the next group look like? Keep in mind Coburn is good for about 4-6 plays and tires. Back ups are Murphy, Broughton, and Welch on the inside. In that group only Murphy has shown he deserves some playing time. On the edge you have Ovie, Davis, and Thorton for back-ups. Probably use Ovie as a sub for passing downs. For all the BS about the DL being the strength, what people are really saying is DT is deep. That depth disappears when you put out essentially 4 DTs to man a 4 man front. That said I am not sure the pass defense is better than the rush defense. I am of the opinion it is all ass.

Losing Thomas to family tragedy, and Jones/Sorrell to injures killed the depth on the outside. While Dorbah is likely a whiff.

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1 hour ago, HtownHorn said:

Yeah, but those guys were coached by Orlando/Ash and not Muschamp/Robinson.

That's irrelevant to the discussion being had at the time.  His point was that having a bunch of seniors on the defense can make any DC look like the perfect fit.  We have a senior and upper class laden defense now and we're shit.  He's clearly wrong and demonstrably so. 

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9 hours ago, Hookem2147 said:

Which is why continuity is meaningless. There are so many things fundamentally and schematically wrong with what we are doing. Getting a bunch of marginally better players from the portal and freshman isn’t going to fix much.

yes but soon they will be juniors and seniors...just wait.

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when it is this bad(see Todd Orlando) it isn't going to get demonstrably better.  The guy is in over his head.  he's getting his ass handed to him(along with every other Big 12 OC) by a first year Kansas coach who has shit for a roster and a back up QB.  3rd and 10+ is a fucking gimmie.  

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If next year’s defense is anywhere near as bad as this year’s, it is guaranteed that Sark will be forced to shitcan PK and/or most of the defensive assistants.

Sark might as well quit if that happens.
Recruiting will absolutely plummet if we see anything close to this shit show. Cut bait. Allow PK to leave back west so he can get high IQ kids into a system. Kansas happened. Something has to change.

Strong and Herman’s first staff picks absolutely sucked and it destroyed them. PK’s been pantsed just about every single game. I’ve seen enough.
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14 hours ago, GoldAppleCorps said:

At some point, someone has got to come off a block.

Every other team out there can pressure the QB at least once in a while with 4 defenders. Our guys will get locked up and stay stuck. When we bring a 5th or 6th guy, they get picked up and stay picked up. It's rare that I see a RB run through a busted hole (at least until later in the game on like the 80th play). Usually, there's defenders near him, but they're all tied up.

It can't always be a blown holding call. Someone has to defeat the block of his opponent. That's "want to". I'm sure the coaches can teach that technique better, so I'm not sticking it all on one place. Eventually, though, there's gotta be pride in the front of the jersey enough to get Bo Davis level angry and throw off the blocker.

Coaches can train you and give you the technique. You have to bring the ganas.

It is startling how our front just ties up like a bunch of OL while the play just blows by them and the one free guy takes a bad angle and finds himself five yards behind the play.

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17 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:


Sark might as well quit if that happens.
Recruiting will absolutely plummet if we see anything close to this shit show. Cut bait. Allow PK to leave back west so he can get high IQ kids into a system. Kansas happened. Something has to change.

Strong and Herman’s first staff picks absolutely sucked and it destroyed them. PK’s been pantsed just about every single game. I’ve seen enough.

I'm not quite as down on Sarkisian as many, but I think ditching Kwiatowski is essential and his first test.  It was objectively a decent or good hire before applying hindsight bias, but I feel pretty strongly that as the head defensive guy, the head's gotta roll.  No dicking around with assistants and we have enough roster holes to fill without having to revamp the entire defense to fit what appears to be a kind of unlikely scheme anyway.

Whereas offense has shown enough sparks that if we can stiffen up the OL and add a ball-catcher or two (emphasis on catcher) we're probably ok.

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14 hours ago, Thatguy said:

   Once again, flexibility inside of a scheme and a scheme change are two different things. Aranda is still working inside the 3-4 platform he has been running forever. We've run a bajillion different looks. Anywhere from 2-5 man fronts, nickel and dime, and cover 1 thru quarters on the back end. What his scheme, regardless of how many men are on the LOS, asks the players to do up front appears to be something they are not good at or we don't teach well. Regardless, every DC we've had has come here and run into the same problem. Manny did. Charlie did. Orlando did. And now PK has. All these guys were good DCs before they got here and then we broke them. I think the problem is us. Here is what I think it is.

  I think we have a couple issues. I think we are playing kids too early. Tossing them out there before they've learned their craft. There are two types of players. You have the lower star try hard guys who didn't have the sheer athletic ability but through effort made to the collegiate level. Then you have the talented guys who's technique is bad but overcame it through sheer ability. Baylor gets the former. We get the latter. So when you play a guy like that he is really raw, and makes a lot of technical mistakes. I believe we've been playing dudes too early and they develop bad technique, but then they compound the problem by being the toxic yeah yeah coach I got it guys. I cannot think of any other reason these coaches are struggling here. It makes sense when you add in the fact that the only two DCs to come in here and be successful were guys who ran high school level defensive schemes that the guys probably already played and thus could be effective.

Interesting theory.  It would be interesting to try to figure out if DL starters changed/went younger from season-to-season or within seasons as DCs and schemes changed.  Each of the various DCs, and their position coaches, was probably a bit vexed about playing older, more experienced guys taught a different system or trying to raise up younger guys in the new system.

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I'm not quite as down on Sarkisian as many, but I think ditching Kwiatowski is essential and his first test.  It was objectively a decent or good hire before applying hindsight bias, but I feel pretty strongly that as the head defensive guy, the head's gotta roll.  No dicking around with assistants and we have enough roster holes to fill without having to revamp the entire defense to fit what appears to be a kind of unlikely scheme anyway.
Whereas offense has shown enough sparks that if we can stiffen up the OL and add a ball-catcher or two (emphasis on catcher) we're probably ok.

What has been ghastly during the streak was the commentary about being bottom 5 in 3 and outs. Get some reliable receivers and we’re in business. Will help the whole team.

“Unlikely scheme” is a good descriptor. You roll out our line most snaps, you will lose.
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14 hours ago, dcar00 said:

exactly.

 

14 hours ago, dcar00 said:

you keep doing this. 7WS is the one saying changing scheme.  if he's that dumb to keep PK and ask him to change his scheme(which is impossible, apparently) then maybe 7WS shouldn't be a head coach.

and you keep doing this. DA has run the same 3-4 base that he always has just with the front adjusted. It's an adjustment not a scheme change.

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3 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

PK fucking sucks dick and is ass. 

   That wasn't the point. I am tired of all the idiots that keep saying scheme change. PK may very well be terrible. I don't like his scheme. Shit I don't like Georgia's 3-3-5 Mint. But Georgia does it with all 5 stars so they make everything look good.

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5 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

   That wasn't the point. I am tired of all the idiots that keep saying scheme change. PK may very well be terrible. I don't like his scheme. Shit I don't like Georgia's 3-3-5 Mint. But Georgia does it with all 5 stars so they make everything look good.

PK's scheme sucks and he's dog shit. Georgia doesn't do retarded alignments on short down and distance. Fuck PK and fuck you!

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8 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I'm not quite as down on Sarkisian as many, but I think ditching Kwiatowski is essential and his first test.  It was objectively a decent or good hire before applying hindsight bias, but I feel pretty strongly that as the head defensive guy, the head's gotta roll.  No dicking around with assistants and we have enough roster holes to fill without having to revamp the entire defense to fit what appears to be a kind of unlikely scheme anyway.

Whereas offense has shown enough sparks that if we can stiffen up the OL and add a ball-catcher or two (emphasis on catcher) we're probably ok.

I'm pretty down on Sark, but I agree with this as it relates to the length of his tenure. If Sark had a reliable QB and just a mediocre defense, we'd probably only have 2 or 3 losses this year. The offense has potential, even with some dogshit personnel, while the defense is an absolute dumpster fire across every dimension.  

If he endures another year like this one, or even something like 6-6, his seat will be on fire for year 3 and he'll likely do the hail mary staff reboot. As we know, the ice is very thin at that point - he can just ask his predecessors.  Thus, to avoid that, he absolutely needs someone that can coordinate a mediocre (not even good) defense, largely with the players we have, in a scheme that's flexible and suits their strengths, without relying on some mythical portal-fueled teardown (which is just a pipedream anyway). If he can't see that, regardless of how much back slapping he's getting from the admin/boosters that they support him, his tenure will be very short (gone in 2-3 years).  

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1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

   That wasn't the point. I am tired of all the idiots that keep saying scheme change. PK may very well be terrible. I don't like his scheme. Shit I don't like Georgia's 3-3-5 Mint. But Georgia does it with all 5 stars so they make everything look good.

I dont think scheme is all of it. I dont like the soft coverage and 2 deep with a light box, but I dont see any scenario where this defense is good. There are just too many holes. CBs havent been tested often, but when they do the grades are not good. LB is a mess. The edge is a black hole of despair. Can not even go to a 4 man front, as I only think there are 5 warm bodies with size. 1 gapping with DL could help, but that hasnt been done much. Shitty decisions x JAGs = shitty defense. 

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Can't help but wonder what we would've looked like if we kept Ash around. Obviously there would have been some drop-off with losing Ossai, Graham, and Sterns, but I'm willing to bet we wouldn't be nearly this bad against the run. Seems like he's a decent recruiter, based on his past DC stops. The only other question is what kind of assistants he would have hired.

/offseason thoughts

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Posted this in a recruiting thread because PK was pissing me off but I should have put it here:

Re: a 4th DC in 4 years

Players come and go in college football so frequently and we are already talking about turning over 40% of the roster, so who gives a crap if it's PK teaching these new guys his shitty scheme or some new DC. There's only so many things you can do on the defensive side of the football from a playbook perspective, it isn't like we are going from a triple option team to a spread team to a west coast team in the span of 4 years.

You know what isn't a recipe for success? Thinking things are going to change because we have the same playbook for the second straight offseason and bring in a few new players. There is so much fundamentally wrong with this defense from a scheme, alignment and call perspective that it isn't even funny. 

Sark needs to have a come to Jesus meeting with PK Saturday morning and ask him how he plans to fix this crap. If PK's answer centers around personnel and the portal then his ass needs to be fired on the spot. PK needs to go back to the scheme and calls that got him here even if the personnel isn't exactly how he likes it, or he needs to be shown the door.

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3 hours ago, Codaxx said:

I dont think scheme is all of it. I dont like the soft coverage and 2 deep with a light box, but I dont see any scenario where this defense is good. There are just too many holes. CBs havent been tested often, but when they do the grades are not good. LB is a mess. The edge is a black hole of despair. Can not even go to a 4 man front, as I only think there are 5 warm bodies with size. 1 gapping with DL could help, but that hasnt been done much. Shitty decisions x JAGs = shitty defense. 

We single-gap the vast majority of the time.  You are confusing 2-gapping with the inability to take on and get off a block properly.

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12 minutes ago, JBJ said:

We single-gap the vast majority of the time.  You are confusing 2-gapping with the inability to take on and get off a block properly.

that is possible. The hardest thing to do is figure out what a defense is trying to do when they are doing things wrong. 

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13 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

It is startling how our front just ties up like a bunch of OL while the play just blows by them and the one free guy takes a bad angle and finds himself five yards behind the play.

This happens all the time. It’s like our defenders are trained to find a player of the other team to get blocked by.

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6 hours ago, bschoolprof said:

I'm pretty down on Sark, but I agree with this as it relates to the length of his tenure. If Sark had a reliable QB and just a mediocre defense, we'd probably only have 2 or 3 losses this year. The offense has potential, even with some dogshit personnel, while the defense is an absolute dumpster fire across every dimension.  

If he endures another year like this one, or even something like 6-6, his seat will be on fire for year 3 and he'll likely do the hail mary staff reboot. As we know, the ice is very thin at that point - he can just ask his predecessors.  Thus, to avoid that, he absolutely needs someone that can coordinate a mediocre (not even good) defense, largely with the players we have, in a scheme that's flexible and suits their strengths, without relying on some mythical portal-fueled teardown (which is just a pipedream anyway). If he can't see that, regardless of how much back slapping he's getting from the admin/boosters that they support him, his tenure will be very short (gone in 2-3 years).  

Yeah, although I might add that the QB is probably adequate if the line is a bit more serviceable.  Casey has limitations, Card is still a bit of a question mark, but I think both of them suffered PTSD behind our line that made them worse than they can be.

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3 hours ago, Steel Shank said:

I'm just sitting here and PK is still pissing me off.

I'm sure it's been discussed, but I can't get over the defense on the 2-point conversion against Kansas.  I've never played organized football, so I'm still trying to figure out what the hell the defense was doing on that play.  I get it.  You line up, and everyone has a responsibility whether zone or man-to-man.

The qb begins to scramble to the right.  He's right-handed.  This RPO option is used all the time on 2-pointers.  This should have been the first thing considered as the play begins.  The thing is, he's scrambling right AND back, meaning the only real danger on the play is the short part of the end zone or, perhaps, the flat.  He's not going to throw the ball to the opposite side of the end zone (far left if looking at it from the offensive perspective).  He's not going to have the time or space to run since he was running away from the LOS.  He's also running out of room to the right sideline.  Therefore, the flat is mostly out of question.  Guard the near part of the end zone, and you should be safe.

HOWEVER, KU somehow had a wide-open guy at the front of the end zone AND, what appears to be another open player just behind him.  I believe we rushed 4, with a LB coming in late.  That leaves 6 players.  One DB had a guy covered well in the back of the end zone; one at the front.  Where the hell were the other 4 players?  I know suck-ass Schooler was closest to the guy that caught the 2-pointer.  

By my calculations, the right side of the end zone had 3 defensive players "covering" 4 offensive players in the end zone.

Edited by Knoxtnhorn
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  • blacklab changed the title to Hey PK -- Keep the Sacks and Turnovers Comin' !!!
  • immamac changed the title to Hey PK -- What would you say you do here?

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