Afghan War ending, foretold by The Onion 10 years Ago [DT thread ruined by politics]

[cactusflinthead 26791]

21 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

Iran and Mossadegh.

But do you want to know what all those have in common?

Starts with a C. Ends with an A.

 

[MillerEP 30232]

25 minutes ago, Not a cat said:

I read that the Taliban told the regular army soldiers they could quit now and go home and nobody would fuck with them.  But if they fought and lost, shit was gonna get real.

Seems they made a business decision.

That fell apart quickly, if you hang around on twitter long enough you'll see people posting that they have a hit list, and have been going around asking questions and rounding people up. It'll take a while since they just took over and need to organize, but it won't be good. Some reports are saying looting is bad, and neighbors are taking advantage of the chaos to settle scores and take whatever they coveted.

[crash_davis 23038]

3 minutes ago, Schulz2.0 said:

We unconditionally pulled air support. They realized they were in for death or worse and surrendered. Most people fight if they think they have a chance to win.

Did the Taliban have air support? I would imagine our trained troops had more hardware than the Taliban. Maybe I'm wrong?

[ChickenSandwich 9749]

13 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

What does it even matter?  The new administration is the new administration, and the NEW administration had more than half a year to plan an exit strategy and execute it.  Whether there was a plan or not at that time doesn't account for whether they would have something ready to execute at the time of the withdrawal, or to change the date and buy more time.  What was Joe's line in the debates - the buck stops with him?

Ooff

 

[Brisketexan 103143]

9 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

What does it even matter?  The new administration is the new administration, and the NEW administration had more than half a year to plan an exit strategy and execute it.  Whether there was a plan or not at that time doesn't account for whether they would have something ready to execute at the time of the withdrawal, or to change the date and buy more time.  What was Joe's line in the debates - the buck stops with him?

Again -- I agree with the end-point.  Joe is sitting behind the desk today, the buck stops there.

Just noting that the previous 20 years of failures, including the decision cast-in-stone to leave by the previous admin (a decision I agreed with and still do, by the way) without building and beginning to perform an actual exit plan that included all of our friendlies.....well, they get to skate, I guess.

This is a disaster.  It was always going to be a disaster.  But that disaster could have been mitigated by things like 1) a realistic and comprehensive exit plan that 2) included real action (like extricating our assets and their families) shortly after our exit was decided, and 3) adjustments to any such plan/lack of plan as we saw the date approaching.

Trump was handed a shit sandwich in Afghanistan.  He decided to bail (the right move).  But....

....he handed Biden a shit sandwich in the form of an exit plan that wasn't even a plan, certainly not with respect to our friendlies......but.....

....Biden had time to at least materially improve on the plan/lack of plan he inherited, and it's readily apparent that he didn't.

What has happened in Afghanistan over the last 10 days is a unifying, AMERICAN failure.  Shit, we can't come together on almost ANYTHING, but Afghanistan is one of those situations where we can look back at two R admins and two D admins, and honestly say that not one of them handled it worth a shit.  We should be singing kumbaya -- we NEVER have such American unity as we have in epic failure.

[Parliament 13979]

8 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

I also heard today on TV that there's a shitload, perhaps several thousand, Americans and Afghan friendlies who are stuck in Kabul and can't get to the airport.

Taliban might let some of those foreign journalists through...

No way they have the audacity to kill Americans...  Right?

President Biden totally botched the withdrawal. President Trump scheduled the withdrawal,  and left no plans execute it.  Obama dithered for 8 years.  Bush took his eyes off of Afghanistan for Iraq.  Clinton was offered Bin Laden in handcuffs and didn't bother.  Plenty of blame to go around.

[MillerEP 30232]

26 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Agreed.  And this admin doesn't get to skate on that failure.

Just a side question: the decision to leave was made months ago.  Under a different admin.  Did that admin have a plan in place to execute our departure so it WOULDN'T be a shitshow?  Nope?  Okay then.  So long as you understand that our Afghanistan adventure was a bi-partisan policy failure, damned near from start to finish, then you are close to getting it.

Yes,  they had a plan, but it got scrapped when the current administration tried to move the date up, and then when they moved the date up again. General MacKenzie was in charge of it, and advised against it, but they scrapped it anyway.

Whether it would've been better, we can't say because we never got to that point, but here we are.

Edited August 16, 2021 by MillerEP

[Tuco 5003]

4 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

What are you mad about?  That Biden is getting hammered?  Did you expect everyone to just throw up their hands and say "welp, see you later"?  The images and videos coming out ruined that potential outcome.

What am I mad about?  Assholes ignoring the science with Covid, mostly.  Doesn't really have much to do with this. 

But, rather than worrying about what I am mad at, you could take a critical look of what is being said and why.  It's not 100% about the how.  And if it was, anyone with more than 3 brain cells knows that Biden didn't chart out the how; government career professional at State and in the military did.  

As far as the Biden admin being hammered, pretty much here and and Facebook the reaction has been a shoulder shrug.  The public is done with Afghanistan.  The undecideds don't watch the news anyway.  

[Captainant 26861]

11 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

What was Joe's line in the debates - the buck stops with him?

You know, he actually said that again during his statement. He took ownership for things falling apart so quickly and said it was much more rapid than anticipated.

I don't think you'll find many on this board or the administration that will defend the how of the pull-out. But he also made the point that our forces were bound by agreements from the prior admin that prevented any sort of phased leaving for fear of a collapse of confidence, like we saw today. 

I think it really just boils down to that we were gonna eat a big fat shit sandwich no matter what, and pulling out rapidly like we did at the very least gets our service members out of harm's way fighting a civil war the Afghanis don't care about. It's absolutely a humanitarian crisis and will undoubtedly result in horrors and oppression for the civilians there. But that's been happening for fucking decades at this point. It just won't be American dropped bombs killing them now

[phdhorn 6224]

Just now, Parliament said:

No way they have the audacity to kill Americans...  Right?

 Plenty of blame to go around.

This is true of our 20-year history in Afghanistan of course. It is not true regarding this evacuation. This is on Biden's team and is his alone. And it's about the worst I've ever seen in my life.

[DDD Dad 14060]

1 minute ago, MillerEP said:

Yes,  they had a plan, but it got scrapped when the current administration tried to move the date up, and then when they moved the date up again. General MacKenzie was in charge of it, and advised against it, but they scrapped it anyway.

Was that the May date that the prior administration negotiated with the Taliban?

The more y'all insist on wanting to talk about why we find ourselves in this shit show, it becomes impossible without cloaking it up.

[Muy Frio 182]

27 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Agreed.  And this admin doesn't get to skate on that failure.

Just a side question: the decision to leave was made months ago.  Under a different admin.  Did that admin have a plan in place to execute our departure so it WOULDN'T be a shitshow?  Nope?  Okay then.  So long as you understand that our Afghanistan adventure was a bi-partisan policy failure, damned near from start to finish, then you are close to getting it.

This is silly. Everybody here knows the history of the war in Afghanistan. Only one President and administration is responsible for stuff like this. 
 

Pathetic. And potentially tragic. 

[hpslugga 3984]

8 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Starts with a C. Ends with an A.

 

Well it doesn’t end there, but it does end with their supreme talent of being able to convince the population of admitted horseshit.

[DDD Dad 14060]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

It's absolutely a humanitarian crisis and will undoubtedly result in horrors and oppression for the civilians there. 

And to me, the Sunday half-time quarterbacking turns my stomach.  This is a humanitarian disaster that is still unfolding in real time.  

 

[MillerEP 30232]

3 minutes ago, Parliament said:

No way they have the audacity to kill Americans...  Right?

President Biden totally botched the withdrawal. President Trump scheduled the withdrawal,  and left no plans execute it.  Obama dithered for 8 years.  Bush took his eyes off of Afghanistan for Iraq.  Clinton was offered Bin Laden in handcuffs and didn't bother.  Plenty of blame to go around.

I have no doubt that somebody would go after westerners if they have the chance. The Pashtun have a code called "Pastunwali" which takes blood feuds very seriously. I can see a few trying to take out a few of them while they have the chance.

[Message Board User 12382]

🤦‍♂️

 

[DDD Dad 14060]

6 minutes ago, Muy Frio said:

This is silly. Everybody here knows the history of the war in Afghanistan. Only one President and administration is responsible for stuff like this. 
 

Pathetic. And potentially tragic. 

From the op-ed:

"There will be plenty of time later to look back on how and why the 20-year American intervention in Afghanistan failed so miserably, why the U.S. withdrawal was so badly mismanaged and how the U.S. government failed to predict that the Taliban would take over the country with almost no resistance. But right now, the No. 1 job of the U.S. government and the roughly 7,000 U.S. troops in or on their way to Kabul must be to rescue American citizens first and then all the Afghans who risked their lives based on America’s promise of safety."

This echoes my sentiments exactly.

Edited to add:

"The blame game can wait. Thousands of Americans could become hostages or worse. Every hour that goes by without action places them in greater danger. Rescuing them is the most important thing right now."

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by DDD Dad

[phdhorn 6224]

4 minutes ago, Muy Frio said:

This is silly. Everybody here knows the history of the war in Afghanistan. Only one President and administration is responsible for stuff like this. 
 

That second example, the Post article, I posted a comment on earlier. This is what's particularly problematic. It's going to be hell to go into Afghanistan outside the airport and try to find these people. I don't see how it can be done without bloodshed.

[52-80 18962]

It aint about the afghanis. Thats a strawman (strawmen?). There are your fellow compatriots still stuck over there. Some 5 digit count of them ?

[cactusflinthead 26791]

Just now, hpslugga said:

Well it doesn’t end there, but it does end with their supreme talent of being able to convince the population of admitted horseshit.

Well, I wasn't going to go down the socialism road. We're gonna derail this mess of a thread.

But, it's not likely to get better any time soon. 

Shit,  Smedley wrote a book on our fuckery. This is the latest episode of us fubar. We have a rather long track record of it.

[Brisketexan 103143]

8 minutes ago, Parliament said:

No way they have the audacity to kill Americans...  Right?

President Biden totally botched the withdrawal. President Trump scheduled the withdrawal,  and left no plans execute it.  Obama dithered for 8 years.  Bush took his eyes off of Afghanistan for Iraq.  Clinton was offered Bin Laden in handcuffs and didn't bother.  Plenty of blame to go around.

The amazing thing is that it's hard to find a part of our Afghanistan Adventure that we DIDN'T fuck up.

Plenty of boots on the ground did what they were sent to do, and did it well.  But when the mission was FUBAR from the get-go, all the great effort in the world don't make a shit.  Which is a horrific thing to realize, because a shitload of that effort ended in flag-draped coffins.

And Miller.....didn't this admin move the date BACK?  The original withdrawal date was May 1, 2021.  The Biden admin pushed it out (fat lot of good it did them, no fucking idea what they were doing with that extra time, it sure as shit didn't include much in the way of planning for how to help out our friendlies).

[ChickenSandwich 9749]

6 minutes ago, Muy Frio said:

This is silly. Everybody here knows the history of the war in Afghanistan. Only one President and administration is responsible for stuff like this. 
 

Pathetic. And potentially tragic. 

Several congressional staffers told me that American citizens in Kabul have been flooding their office’s phone lines, complaining that after being told on Sunday by the State Department to shelter in place and not to come to the embassy or the airport, they have not received any further information and are scared for their lives. Cotton’s office set up an email address for Americans in Kabul who want to be evacuated (evac@cotton.senate.gov) to try to get them more help.
 

most frustrating part. Mistakes were made, for now send

[Brisketexan 103143]

2 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Several congressional staffers told me that American citizens in Kabul have been flooding their office’s phone lines, complaining that after being told on Sunday by the State Department to shelter in place and not to come to the embassy or the airport, they have not received any further information and are scared for their lives. Cotton’s office set up an email address for Americans in Kabul who want to be evacuated (evac@cotton.senate.gov) to try to get them more help.
 

most frustrating part. Mistakes were made, for now send

Yes....and no.  Sending a shitload of troops because "DO SOMETHING!" is never a good plan.  Put a bunch of boots back on the ground in a rapidly deteriorating situation without a well-defined objective and instructions on how to achieve it?  Bad idea jeans.

Come up with a way to get our citizens out, and if that needs to involve sending troops to get them and evacuate them, great.  Come up with a plan, including a plan that keeps those choppers and planes from being blown up as they try to take off, and let's do it.

[Message Board User 12382]

3 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

That second example, the Post article, I posted a comment on earlier. This is what's particularly problematic. It's going to be hell to go into Afghanistan outside the airport and try to find these people. I don't see how it can be done without bloodshed.

Maybe I'm a naive optimist, but I actually think that the Taliban won't want a direct fight with the US military. 

They're going to act in their own self-interest and the sooner the US leaves the quicker they can consolidate power, sell the country's natural resources to China and Russia, enslave their women, and get back to terrorisming.  A direct fight with US soldiers runs the risk of a prolonged US presence right when we're going home with our tail between our legs.

No, the Taliban wants us gone and they'll do everything they can to facilitate if they act in their own self-interest.

[WhatTheBuck 28574]

6 hours ago, 6th Street said:

Wait till the Tallies find out what the Chinese have done with the Muslim Uiguyrs

Talis? Tallies? You keep using that expression but you don’t seem to have settled on a spelling. I’ve never heard that expression before. Where are you getting that?

[Muy Frio 182]

6 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

From the op-ed:

"There will be plenty of time later to look back on how and why the 20-year American intervention in Afghanistan failed so miserably, why the U.S. withdrawal was so badly mismanaged and how the U.S. government failed to predict that the Taliban would take over the country with almost no resistance. But right now, the No. 1 job of the U.S. government and the roughly 7,000 U.S. troops in or on their way to Kabul must be to rescue American citizens first and then all the Afghans who risked their lives based on America’s promise of safety."

This echoes my sentiments exactly.

Edited to add:

"The blame game can wait. Thousands of Americans could become hostages or worse. Every hour that goes by without action places them in greater danger. Rescuing them is the most important thing right now."

 

You know who always wants to avoid the blame game? The people at fault. The point is there should never have been thousands of Americans in this precarious situation. Major fuckup. Hopefully they can get them out safely, but as Phd said, when you’re having to venture out into now Taliban held areas to find these people anything can happen. 

[brakeman 28040]

 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

42 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Agreed.  And this admin doesn't get to skate on that failure.

Just a side question: the decision to leave was made months ago.  Under a different admin.  Did that admin have a plan in place to execute our departure so it WOULDN'T be a shitshow?  Nope?  Okay then.  So long as you understand that our Afghanistan adventure was a bi-partisan policy failure, damned near from start to finish, then you are close to getting it.

I don't know who planned what, but my 9 year old could figure out the steps for a withdrawal

1. Evacuate all Americans

2. Evacuate all allies who helped us and now face torture/death

3. Keep our airbases open so if the Taliban fucks with us while we are evacuating 1 and 2, we can introduce them to a few A-10s and American artillery

4. Evacuate troops and their weapons/hardware (also can assist protect the evacuation)

5. Shutdown the air bases and GTFO

Don't do #5 first.

 

[Nueces River Rat 5485]

2 hours ago, phdhorn said:

So far, they've been rightly and acutely critical of the administration on this evacuation, spearing little pointed criticism.

Even if they revert to their typical dick sucking, Biden doesn't get out of this easily in the public and world status. This is a complete, utter, major catastrophic horrible screw-up on his part, one with terrible ramifications far outside of Afghanistan, and he's not going to wiggle out of this for at least the next year, unless by some miracle something happens to atone for it. Don't bet on it.

Especially as it seems to be increasingly coming out that he ignored his military advisors and intelligence and did this for no other reason than apparently hubris or some absolutely stupid pie in the sky desire to line up 9/11. I cannot even fathom that someone could actually have that mindset.

I wonder if China gets cocky and tries to move on Afghanistan.    Screw both of them putos and let them kill each other if that is in the plan.

[ChickenSandwich 9749]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yes....and no.  Sending a shitload of troops because "DO SOMETHING!" is never a good plan.  Put a bunch of boots back on the ground in a rapidly deteriorating situation without a well-defined objective and instructions on how to achieve it?  Bad idea jeans.

Come up with a way to get our citizens out, and if that needs to involve sending troops to get them and evacuate them, great.  Come up with a plan, including a plan that keeps those choppers and planes from being blown up as they try to take off, and let's do it.

Agree completely, you need a plan but you also need a serious show of force. For the Taliban and for the future (i see you China - check their troll tweets). 
 

There should be smoking Toyota’s everywhere and retake the airport at the least with a large buffer. 

[DDD Dad 14060]

2 minutes ago, Muy Frio said:

You know who always wants to avoid the blame game? The people at fault. The point is there should never have been thousands of Americans in this precarious situation. Major fuckup. Hopefully they can get them out safely, but as Phd said, when you’re having to venture out into now Taliban held areas to find these people anything can happen. 

You're awfully cocky with political hot takes in DT for someone who just survived purgatory.

[Muy Frio 182]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

I don't know who planned what, but my 9 year old could figure out the steps for a withdrawal

1. Evacuate all Americans

2. Evacuate all allies who helped us and now face torture/death

3. Keep our airbases open so if the Taliban fucks with us while we are evacuating 1 and 2, we can introduce them to a few A-10s and American artillery

4. Evacuate troops and their weapons/hardware (also can assist protect the evacuation)

5. Shutdown the air bases and GTFO

Don't do #5 first.

 

Basically this,

 

[phdhorn 6224]

2 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Maybe I'm a naive optimist, but I actually think that the Taliban won't want a direct fight with the US military. 

They're going to act in their own self-interest and the sooner the US leaves the quicker they can consolidate power, sell the country's natural resources to China and Russia, enslave their women, and get back to terrorisming.  A direct fight with US soldiers runs the risk of a prolonged US presence right when we're going home with our tail between our legs.

No, the Taliban wants us gone and they'll do everything they can to facilitate if they act in their own self-interest.

I think you're right in so far as at least the first few weeks. The Taliban really wants to project an image of tolerance and low-key transition (although we now know in many villages already taken anything but that has happened).

I'm thinking down the road though that the Taliban may very easily take these people and scatter them all over the country making that impossible to retrieve for a conventional force. And now, since we have absolutely no intelligence on the ground or anywhere else there, we will never know where they would be. Taliban can use them for trade bait or ransom.

If you're an American but especially an American friendly and you're not at the airport in Kabul right now, your life is a dice roll.

[Brisketexan 103143]

Just now, Johnny Sack said:

I don't know who planned what, but my 9 year old could figure out the steps for a withdrawal

1. Evacuate all Americans

2. Evacuate all allies who helped us and now face torture/death

3. Keep our airbases open so if the Taliban fucks with us while we are evacuating 1 and 2, we can introduce them to a few A-10s and American artillery

4. Evacuate troops and their weapons/hardware (also can assist protect the evacuation)

5. Shutdown the air bases and GTFO

Don't do #5 first.

 

I mean....you'd think that, right?  Yet.....we started with the OPPOSITE approach: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/trump-admin-broke-law-visa-delays-afghans-iraqis-who-worked-n1057846.

Cool, so we fucked that up in the prior admin.  So, one would think that fixing it would be a priority for the new admin, right?  Nope.  Didn't get anything pushed through Congress on this (and sure didn't take any aggressive executive branch action) until.....two weeks ago.  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-29/senate-passes-bill-funding-capitol-security-afghan-visas

1 and 2 just didn't happen worth a shit.  And to the extent that 1 was because "the intel didn't tell us it could fall this fast," bullshit -- the admin listened to the intel it wanted to hear, and didn't listen to the intel it didn't want to hear.  There was more than enough intel at least pointing to a material RISK of a quick collapse.  For that sort of risk, we should have heeded the more pessimistic intel.

The United States doesn't have any idea how to GTFO of any situation that doesn't end in a victory parade.

[Gap03 3143]

1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

 

 

[Gap03 3143]

1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

 

[Gap03 3143]

1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

 

[Nueces River Rat 5485]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

I don't know who planned what, but my 9 year old could figure out the steps for a withdrawal

1. Evacuate all Americans

2. Evacuate all allies who helped us and now face torture/death

3. Keep our airbases open so if the Taliban fucks with us while we are evacuating 1 and 2, we can introduce them to a few A-10s and American artillery

4. Evacuate troops and their weapons/hardware (also can assist protect the evacuation)

5. Shutdown the air bases and GTFO

Don't do #5 first.

 

This right here was the biggest fuck up.    It's not like they didn't have enough time starting in January to  get a bunch of that stuff out of there.   But it was like one night our  troops were told to bring their personal belongings and service weapon and get on a C-17 and scat out of town.   Now Iran will get their hands on US made drones, aircraft, flight simulators, etc.        At the very least they should have had a huge bonfire  when leaving the different basis assisted by a few bomb drops from drones or navy assets in the Gulf of Oman.

[Nueces River Rat 5485]

9 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Agree completely, you need a plan but you also need a serious show of force. For the Taliban and for the future (i see you China - check their troll tweets). 
 

There should be smoking Toyota’s everywhere and retake the airport at the least with a large buffer. 

Only to replaced with an F-250 from Texas with a Plumbing Company ad on the drivers side door.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13267]

13 minutes ago, brakeman said:

 

It shows you that when the situation calls for you to move, fucking move. The ability for these 640 people to get on a plane for Qatar is going to give them a better life than if they had hesitated. Or whatever it took for them to get on that plane.

[JimmyJames 12267]

3 hours ago, brakeman said:

Hanging on to a plane tire as it takes off is not a very good idea. 

[Nicole44 21941]

Man I hope they can get the journalists out of there safely. RIP to those who didn’t make it at the airport. Damn. Sad shit. A lesson to I guess anyone who wants to nation build/occupy whatever. Sad deal though that they are pretty much right back where they were before this started. With the fucking Taliban. I was reading articles about the journalists there trying to get out (some have families over there I guess.) ❤️

[BabaYaga 15116]

30 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Again -- I agree with the end-point.  Joe is sitting behind the desk today, the buck stops there.

Just noting that the previous 20 years of failures, including the decision cast-in-stone to leave by the previous admin (a decision I agreed with and still do, by the way) without building and beginning to perform an actual exit plan that included all of our friendlies.....well, they get to skate, I guess.

This is a disaster.  It was always going to be a disaster.  But that disaster could have been mitigated by things like 1) a realistic and comprehensive exit plan that 2) included real action (like extricating our assets and their families) shortly after our exit was decided, and 3) adjustments to any such plan/lack of plan as we saw the date approaching.

Trump was handed a shit sandwich in Afghanistan.  He decided to bail (the right move).  But....

....he handed Biden a shit sandwich in the form of an exit plan that wasn't even a plan, certainly not with respect to our friendlies......but.....

....Biden had time to at least materially improve on the plan/lack of plan he inherited, and it's readily apparent that he didn't.

What has happened in Afghanistan over the last 10 days is a unifying, AMERICAN failure.  Shit, we can't come together on almost ANYTHING, but Afghanistan is one of those situations where we can look back at two R admins and two D admins, and honestly say that not one of them handled it worth a shit.  We should be singing kumbaya -- we NEVER have such American unity as we have in epic failure.

Joe wasn't handed a "plan" - he was handed a date.  A date known from day one in office was coming.  Even is handed the best laid plan to challenge the efficacy of Operations Neptune, their administration called the shots of where, when, what, and how to implement that plan, or any other.  Everything else is just word salad.  

[BabaYaga 15116]

15 minutes ago, Muy Frio said:

Basically this,

 

Fucking this.  Think sensitive information won't fetch a pretty price on the black markets.  JFC.

[DDD Dad 14060]

Just now, BabaYaga said:

Fucking this.  Think sensitive information won't fetch a pretty price on the black markets.  JFC.

Seems like they did 4-3-1 and then they just ran out of time for 2.  In College Station that's a win.

[Schulz2.0 28616]

39 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

Did the Taliban have air support? I would imagine our trained troops had more hardware than the Taliban. Maybe I'm wrong?

The Taliban has been receiving money and hardware from the Russians and Iranians for years. They're well trained, armed, and motivated. The Taliban are also very willing to assassinate high level military personnel and kill/torture people and their families. Air support saved many of our own troops. You don't think they would make a huge difference for some limp dick Afghan Army force?

[Loch Ness Monster 3529]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wheel-well_stowaway_flights

 

[JimmyJames 12267]

Bush and Cheney got us into this fiasco so they get most of the blame.

Obama didn’t get out after killing bin Ladin so he gets some blame too. But admittedly, it ain’t easy being a black president in America.

Trump signed a shitty deal with the taliban and was too much of a coward to deal with them. Par for the course. Because he is what he is.  A coward. 
 

Biden therefore has to nut up and take the inevitable loss. Because that’s what adults do. 

[Muy Frio 182]

25 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

You're awfully cocky with political hot takes in DT for someone who just survived purgatory.

There’s nothing political about saying that the people in charge of this operation are responsible for thousands of Americans at the mercy of the Taliban. It’s just a statement of fact. 

[DDD Dad 14060]

1 minute ago, Muy Frio said:

There’s nothing political about saying that the people in charge of this operation are responsible for thousands of Americans at the mercy of the Taliban. It’s just a statement of fact. 

That's not what I was referring to.

"You know who always wants to avoid the blame game? The people at fault."  I'll refrain from cloaking things up further by commenting on who likes to play the blame game.