Realignment talk not going away

[BurntOrange&White 38710]

I think there is language that says if so many schools leave the conference the GOR is void. 

[GTX Horn 1700]

14 minutes ago, hawkfan said:

This seems like bullshit because even if ESPN voids the TV Deal, isn't the GOR between the school and the conference?

Either way, UNC/UVA are the real targets in the ACC because those two are the heart of that conference.

Theoretically if the SEC poaches 4 ACC schools and the B1G reacts by poaching the best that are left and the ultimate leftovers scramble and join the Big East or Big 12. At the very least if the SEC and B1G take 8 of the ACC schools, those schools could just vote to dissolve the conference and viola, no GOR.

[Hurtlocker 2208]

1 minute ago, GTX Horn said:

Theoretically if the SEC poaches 4 ACC schools and the B1G reacts by poaching the best that are left and the ultimate leftovers scramble and join the Big East or Big 12. At the very least if the SEC and B1G take 8 of the ACC schools, those schools could just vote to dissolve the conference and viola, no GOR.

They'd have to dissolve before they left.  They don't get votes once they announce they're leaving.

[hawkfan 60]

Yeah, and I think I've read that GOR requires like 75% or 80% of members agreeing to dissolve it, or something ridiculously high.

[hawkfan 60]

If it ends in 2027 though, that would make a buyout much less of an obstacle vs 2036.

[bullet 1596]

16 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

So, anytime news comes from a place called "SwimSwam Sports" I'm skeptical, but let's play this out:

The SEC totally bitch slaps the Big Ten by taking UVA/UNC/FSU/Clemson.   At that point, the ACC is dead.  SEC at 20.

Big Ten reacts by taking ND, Stanford, BC, and GTech, grabbing 10m new households and the biggest brand in the sport. Big Ten at 20

Big 12 can't believe their dumb luck, gladly let Texas/OU out of the GoR and grab VTech, Miami, Pitt, NCState 16.  Wait on what Pac does.

Pac 12 can't figure out what to do.   They sit at 9 and can grab SDSt and call it a day, or Oregon/Washington lead a charge east.

Big 12 can stay at 16, move to 20 with growth locations in the midwest (see Louisville), or wait for western schools to knock.

Duke, Wake, and Cuse join the Big East, dumping football.

 

 

According to FtT, Swimswam is pretty solid as a swimming site.  Its not a Swaim site.

Of course the idea that the swimming coaches are privy to top secret details seems a stretch.

[Uncle Nate 2097]

Not to cloak room this thread, but does anyone else feel we (fans, schools, etc) are nothing but the puppets at the end of the strings being pulled by two mega, mega media conglomerates?

If Standard Oil and Ma Bell were considered dangerous monopolies that had to be broken up for the common good, what does that make ESPN/Disney and Fox?  ALL of this realignment stuff is being completely manipulated by these two companies.

I’m getting the whole industrial media complex vibe and I don’t see it being a good thing in the end. 

[SimonBolivar 10648]

1 minute ago, Uncle Nate said:

Not to cloak room this thread, but does anyone else feel we (fans, schools, etc) are nothing but the puppets at the end of the strings being pulled by two mega, mega media conglomerates?

[Hurtlocker 2208]

 

Just now, Uncle Nate said:

Not to cloak room this thread, but does anyone else feel we (fans, schools, etc) are nothing but the puppets at the end of the strings being pulled by two mega, mega media conglomerates?

If Standard Oil and Ma Bell were considered dangerous monopolies that had to be broken up for the common good, what does that make ESPN/Disney and Fox?  ALL of this realignment stuff is being completely manipulated by these two companies.

I’m getting the whole industrial media complex vibe and I don’t see it being a good thing in the end. 

It definitely is and it's also why you likely will never see the relegation and removal of teams or the lock out of other conferences to the playoffs.   The threat of anti-trust, which they've lost before, will keep them pushing the boundaries, but never quite blowing it up.

I think the Mouse wants to settle as much of it as possible now and lock it up, because once Amazon and Apple decide they want it, they can buy Disney with pocket change.

[Vertigo 20203]

52 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

He's a fucking swimming reporter.

He seems to have ventured into the deep end on this one. I mean he really grabbed his ankles and piked one in there. I am sure he know about what is going on under the surface though. 

[Sandman 3399]

1 hour ago, Steelers Roll Left said:

Oklahoma State...their obvious problem is being the 2nd program in a small market state.

No, our problem is sharing a state with what is at worst a top 5 program in the history of the fucking sport. 

[Steelers Roll Left 1140]

46 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

1) You'd have two big schools in Florida already

2) UVA/UNC are tied at the hip.   One likely won't move without the other and they're the bedrock of the ACC

3) They've won like 10 natties on various sports over the past decade, but, their football is suspect.   They are amazeballs in the growing sports that SECN is wanting.

4) UVA/UNC combined is the roughly same population as Florida, more carriage for SECN.

5) Big Ten wants UVA badly for academics/research, e.g. prestige

Until the Joker walks in the room and drops a 2x4 on the floor and says "We're having tryouts"

[camel at sea 589]

5 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

Not to cloak room this thread, but does anyone else feel we (fans, schools, etc) are nothing but the puppets at the end of the strings being pulled by two mega, mega media conglomerates?

If Standard Oil and Ma Bell were considered dangerous monopolies that had to be broken up for the common good, what does that make ESPN/Disney and Fox?  ALL of this realignment stuff is being completely manipulated by these two companies.

I’m getting the whole industrial media complex vibe and I don’t see it being a good thing in the end. 

Yeah.  A lot of this makes sense if you assume that some shadowy figures at both FOX and Disney are working together and then staging the CR theater so that it matches up with the backroom deal.  

[LTbear 4030]

1 hour ago, TexArcher said:

I assumed the SEC would raid the ACC for Clemson, Florida State, Miami, and UNC.

Why it would be UVA over Miami, I have no idea?

Because I think with Florida and Florida State, Miami is just overkill at that point 

[Hurtlocker 2208]

5 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

Yeah.  A lot of this makes sense if you assume that some shadowy figures at both FOX and Disney are working together and then staging the CR theater so that it matches up with the backroom deal.  

Valid, I kind of think its more each is trying to fuck over the other one to make sure they can't have all the nice things.

[LTbear 4030]

24 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

One thing I found interesting is someone posted the ACC agreement earlier and the GOR was listed for 2027, not 2036 as reported.   Not sure if it was the right agreement or the most recent, but the dates were off.

I heard on a podcast by the guy who got ahold of that GOR you read that the newer GOR is a copy and paste with the dates changed 

[Francisco 2.0 31566]

10 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

Not to cloak room this thread, but does anyone else feel we (fans, schools, etc) are nothing but the puppets at the end of the strings being pulled by two mega, mega media conglomerates?

If Standard Oil and Ma Bell were considered dangerous monopolies that had to be broken up for the common good, what does that make ESPN/Disney and Fox?  ALL of this realignment stuff is being completely manipulated by these two companies.

I’m getting the whole industrial media complex vibe and I don’t see it being a good thing in the end. 

 

The only content that brings eyeballs now is live content.  Everything else is streamed, DVR'd, whatever.

Having said that,  ESPN and Fox are in a war over advertisers to give them that live content.  Whatever it costs those two networks is simply the cost of doing business.  And we, the consumers and customers, really don't have much say here.  If that means USC kicking off at 11 am at Rutgers in November, well, tough shit.  Enjoy your live content.

It's been attributed that all of this can be tied to OU vs NCAA, but in reality, once streaming and the ability to DVR anything, anytime, anywhere in the past 10 years or so....this was the end result.  Live content is king, and whatever network can get the advertising dollars from having live content wins.

 

 

 

[Steelers Roll Left 1140]

1 hour ago, camel at sea said:

How'd the European Super League work out?  You've got to know just how far you can push the fans but it's a bad idea to push them too far.  Cutting out a third of the schools who are currently in the P5 (an argument I've seen on this thread) would be too far.  Cutting out CUSA, the MAC, and the Sun Belt is probably not too far.  Fewer of those games means more good match-ups and more often.  As for the legal side, yeah, the more schools that get cut out, the more congressmen, lawyers, etc., you're dealing with. 

But as for streaming... there are not many things that can potentially draw 1-2M live streams.  It's dumb to throw Oklahoma State out of the top tier when history suggests that they can deliver live viewers in the millions (just not the same number of millions as Texas or OU.)

On European Super League point..........point taken, and we clearly live in times where the collective conscience may be divided on how they view the pure capitalism behind such decisions.  But are we Europe and is college football king in America the way the various 1st division soccer leagues are in Europe?  I would offer that I run into a lot of "Football" fans that say they love and watch the NFL, but not as much college ball, the explanation most-oft given being that college football has "too many mismatches" of the Texas-UTEP, Bama-Citadel variety.  I think part of what we're all witnessing here is broadcasting partners asking themselves what product they're paying literally Billions for and wanting to have more of a say in what their investment looks like in the future, especially in a "cord-cutting" era  

[hawkfan 60]

I think eventually the B1G and SEC just go to 24 with an 11 game conference schedule and regional 6 school divisions that rotate each year.

[Hurtlocker 2208]

[DFW Horn 6020]

26 minutes ago, Vertigo said:

He seems to have ventured into the deep end on this one. I mean he really grabbed his ankles and piked one in there. I am sure he know about what is going on under the surface though. 

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1254]

17 minutes ago, Steelers Roll Left said:

On European Super League point..........point taken, and we clearly live in times where the collective conscience may be divided on how they view the pure capitalism behind such decisions.  But are we Europe and is college football king in America the way the various 1st division soccer leagues are in Europe?  I would offer that I run into a lot of "Football" fans that say they love and watch the NFL, but not as much college ball, the explanation most-oft given being that college football has "too many mismatches" of the Texas-UTEP, Bama-Citadel variety.  I think part of what we're all witnessing here is broadcasting partners asking themselves what product they're paying literally Billions for and wanting to have more of a say in what their investment looks like in the future, especially in a "cord-cutting" era  

All of the mismatches early in the year allow for the juggernaut games between undefeated and one loss teams at the end of the year, though. Take away the mismatches, and everyone will have more losses. Casual fans won't be nearly as interested in seeing 9-2 Alabama square off against 8-3 LSU for a chance to play in the SEC championship game.

[DFW Horn 6020]

2 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Dear Richard Justice:

Shut the fuck up. Goddamn its sad AF that Texas Monthly pays him to write

For context, here's Dick Justice's most recent article. TM must cater to aggy. 🙄

 

['stache 21489]

1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Lulz at UCLA being a national brand.  They barely travel to Pasadena.  Under Armor thought they were a big brand and lost their ass.

Also, it should be noted that had the Pac-12 been OK with Texas having their own network and the academics of OU, Tech, and Okie State, they've not only be viable now but might be one of the few left standing.

Yup. This would have been a badass, stable, and rich conference, which I imagine could have drawn a great commish to avoid the current nonsense. It also would have been a recruiting boon for OU, OSU, Tech, and UT by relegating the rest of the Texas schools (the other PAC schools would benefit too).

Edited July 7, 2022 by 'stache

[DFW Horn 6020]

 

[DFW Horn 6020]

 

[Hank Chinaski 6305]

22 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Yup. This would have been a badass, stable, and rich conference, which I imagine could have drawn a great commish to avoid the current nonsense. It also would have been a recruiting boon for OU, OSU, Tech, and UT by relegating the rest of the Texas schools (the other PAC schools would benefit too).

Yes, and the really shitty part is that it was obvious a decade ago that this was the PAC’s best and only play. There simply were no other “marquee” programs to get that made even remote geographic sense. They opted to let the LHN be a deal-breaker. It was short-sighted and ultimately led to the destruction of their league. And again, this isn’t hindsight, it was clear back then that the PAC was cutting off its nose to spite its face.

I know this seems arrogant, but they needed Texas more than Texas needed them, and they didn’t seem to consider that during negotiations. It is just true, it was true in 2011 - and we said it back then - and this is the result. 

[Steelers Roll Left 1140]

17 minutes ago, DFW Horn said:

 

I think as a general rule of thumb, it should be assumed that ALL of these tweeted/reported rumors in realignment should never be accepted as the actual goings-on.  They "might" represent the goings-on, they "might" be information from a source looking to torpedo the plans of other players in the big game, and the source may not know what other players in the game are planning behind their backs.  Look no further than how many of these insiders reported USC/UCLA to the Big Ten last week before it happened (none).  This is the college football equivalent of "Survivor".

[David Dennison 17657]

56 minutes ago, DFW Horn said:

For context, here's Dick Justice's most recent article. TM must cater to aggy. 🙄

 

Texas hate brings eyeballs and clicks. Even alums like Justice know that.

[camel at sea 589]

2 hours ago, Steelers Roll Left said:

On European Super League point..........point taken, and we clearly live in times where the collective conscience may be divided on how they view the pure capitalism behind such decisions.  But are we Europe and is college football king in America the way the various 1st division soccer leagues are in Europe?  I would offer that I run into a lot of "Football" fans that say they love and watch the NFL, but not as much college ball, the explanation most-oft given being that college football has "too many mismatches" of the Texas-UTEP, Bama-Citadel variety.  I think part of what we're all witnessing here is broadcasting partners asking themselves what product they're paying literally Billions for and wanting to have more of a say in what their investment looks like in the future, especially in a "cord-cutting" era  

Is college football king in America?  60,000+ people gather together on Saturdays in the fall, in Ames, Iowa, to watch the Iowa State Cyclones - who as has been mentioned repeatedly have never won a conference  title or national title in the lifetimes of any of their fans.  ISU's stadium would be somewhere in the top 30 stadium capacities in all of Europe.   Top college stadiums are larger than the top end of the NFL.  

The disconnect in this conversation is happening between the people who can and cannot tell the difference between the likes of Iowa State, Oklahoma State, BYU... and Bowling Green.  There is a big difference.   

Edited July 7, 2022 by camel at sea

[billfromlaketravis 11265]

1 hour ago, DFW Horn said:

For context, here's Dick Justice's most recent article. TM must cater to aggy. 🙄

 

How does Texas to the SEC kill old rivalries if it: 

- Reestablishes rivalries with Arkansas and 8&4

- Locks in Texas - OU for perpetuity

 

Dumb take is dumb.  

[Uncle Nate 2097]

27 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

Is college football king in America?  60,000+ people gather together on Saturdays in the fall, in Ames, Iowa, to watch the Iowa State Cyclones - who as has been mentioned repeatedly have never won a conference  title or national title in the lifetimes of any of their fans.  ISU's stadium would be somewhere in the top 30 stadium capacities in all of Europe.   Top college stadiums are larger than the top end of the NFL.  

The disconnect in this conversation is happening between the people who can and cannot tell the difference between the likes of Iowa State, Oklahoma State, BYU... and Bowling Green.  There is a big difference.   

Take Texas Tech as another example.

Our football team has sucked hind-tit for over a decade now and we still will have 50,000+ attend our games in our 65,000 capacity stadium even when we suck.  And a good percentage of that 50,000-60,000 is coming from hundreds of miles away...Dallas, Houston, Austin, etc.  And this is during a time period where our football program is the worse it has been since the early 80's.  We have better attendance than other programs (see Baylor) who have been way more successful lately.

Basketball is selling out a 15,000 seat arena.  Baseball is sold out and even on a down year we made the playoffs.

We have a student enrollment of 40,000 and a huge spread out, fanatical alumni base.  

But we are being compared with the bottom feeders in FBS.  I don't get it.

[Al_4_ISU 12199]

You want them to shit down football and yet they got an invite to the b1g.   Quick name the ten best athletes from ucla, iowa st and Oklahoma st
 
ill name the first three from ucla.  Kareem, Troy , Walton.  Ok. Your turn with iowa st and osu (Barry).  
 
Now let’s talk about how isu and osu has out performed ucla in most relevant sports the last ten years.  And yet…ucla got the invite somehow. 

We know this is about what happened 30-50 years ago. This is not a mystery.

We’re saying it’s blindingly moronic.

[utee94 15671]

48 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

How does Texas to the SEC kill old rivalries if it: 

- Reestablishes rivalries with Arkansas and 8&4

- Locks in Texas - OU for perpetuity

 

Dumb take is dumb.  

Yup not even worth trying to rebut.  Stupid and lazy journalism.

[bullet 1596]

2 hours ago, DFW Horn said:

For context, here's Dick Justice's most recent article. TM must cater to aggy. 🙄

 

Definitely aggy.

Texas was the one who stayed until it was no longer feasible.

[Horn of Gabriel 1570]

Just now, utee94 said:

Yup not even worth trying to rebut.  Stupid and lazy journalism.

Not even worth calling that journalism, it's an opinion piece and a bad one at that.  100% of that article is false.

[Al_4_ISU 12199]

Yup. This would have been a badass, stable, and rich conference, which I imagine could have drawn a great commish to avoid the current nonsense. It also would have been a recruiting boon for OU, OSU, Tech, and UT by relegating the rest of the Texas schools (the other PAC schools would benefit too).

Everything you wrote here except “stable” is accurate.

[Steelers Roll Left 1140]

1 hour ago, camel at sea said:

Is college football king in America?  60,000+ people gather together on Saturdays in the fall, in Ames, Iowa, to watch the Iowa State Cyclones - who as has been mentioned repeatedly have never won a conference  title or national title in the lifetimes of any of their fans.  ISU's stadium would be somewhere in the top 30 stadium capacities in all of Europe.   Top college stadiums are larger than the top end of the NFL.  

The disconnect in this conversation is happening between the people who can and cannot tell the difference between the likes of Iowa State, Oklahoma State, BYU... and Bowling Green.  There is a big difference.   

Granted it's been 2 or 3 years, but last I heard, the NFL TV ratings outperform college football TV ratings by a factor of between 3 and 4 times the viewership.  NFL viewership >> NCAA Football viewership.  The broadcasting partners know this, are looking for a way to "boost" college football viewership to be more comparable to the NFL and thus more marketable to advertisers who have been complaining, EVEN FOR THE NFL, that they don't like the return they've been getting on their investments.  

[Gidnik 3230]

https://www.si.com/college/fsu/football/sources-florida-state-exploring-leaving-acc-for-new-conference
 

SOURCES: Florida State exploring leaving ACC for new conference

[hawkfan 60]

Not sure I buy FSU for the B1G, UNC/UVA make a lot more sense as the first move.

[Laxtonto 11764]

30 minutes ago, Gidnik said:

https://www.si.com/college/fsu/football/sources-florida-state-exploring-leaving-acc-for-new-conference
 

SOURCES: Florida State exploring leaving ACC for new conference

“Exploring” is such a misnomer in all of this for headline fodder. I would be pissed, regardless of which power 5 school I am at( including the elite schools that are longtime big named members of the B10 and SEC) if my school did not at least explored the idea of moving conferences or evaluated our GOR.

 

That being said I do wonder if FSU thinks that the ACC lied to them last time and now realize that they should have tried to bail when they could have then.

[Dnaguy 11538]

8 minutes ago, hawkfan said:

Not sure I buy FSU for the B1G, UNC/UVA make a lot more sense as the first move.

B1G isn't going to take FSU.

You're right about UNC / UVA.

Their Targets as I see it:

1.), 1a.), 1b.) all the way through 1z.) Notre Dame

2.) UNC

3.) UVA

4.) Probably Stanford just due to the their ties to Notre Dame and USC.

If they expand further to 24, I'm a little uncertain....

5.) Washington

6.) Oregon

7 and 8.) ? Kansas & Georgia Tech? Duke and Georgia Tech? Kansas and Duke?  Kansas and Cal? 

Who knows?

[Hozz 1012]

Saw a story on Clemson, UNC, UVA and FSU to the SEC.  That would be nuts.  I'd stop at Clemson and FSU personally.

[utee94 15671]

Maybe it's the rebirth of Clemson and FSU to the B12 talk not going away?????

 

 

[TKthunder2 4958]

17 minutes ago, Hozz said:

Saw a story on Clemson, UNC, UVA and FSU to the SEC.  That would be nuts.  I'd stop at Clemson and FSU personally.

I’d go for UNC, Duke, Kansas, Syracuse, Arizona, UConn, Gonzaga, and Wake Forest personally.

[TrashMaster G 17263]

4 hours ago, 'stache said:

Yup. This would have been a badass, stable, and rich conference, which I imagine could have drawn a great commish to avoid the current nonsense. It also would have been a recruiting boon for OU, OSU, Tech, and UT by relegating the rest of the Texas schools (the other PAC schools would benefit too).

I really wanted that to happen.

Fuck Larry Scott.

[Gidnik 3230]

8 minutes ago, TrashMaster G said:

I really wanted that to happen.

Fuck Larry Scott.

i didnt. playing oregon state or washington state at 11 pm was absolute shit.  there is not 1 school out there that i want to see us play every year.  

[Steelers Roll Left 1140]

26 minutes ago, Gidnik said:

i didnt. playing oregon state or washington state at 11 pm was absolute shit.  there is not 1 school out there that i want to see us play every year.  

Yeah I’m with you.  Was glad when that fell through though I wish Texas would have made their move to the SEC back then instead of sticking in a dying conference while A&M got the jump

[utee94 15671]

12 minutes ago, Steelers Roll Left said:

Yeah I’m with you.  Was glad when that fell through though I wish Texas would have made their move to the SEC back then instead of sticking in a dying conference while A&M got the jump

I actually think it's a lot of fun watching the ags "get the jump" and do absolutely nothing with it.  It makes their pain at Texas showing up to the party a decade later, even more delicious.

[mdmost 42167]

1 hour ago, TrashMaster G said:

I really wanted that to happen.

Fuck Larry Scott.

I wanted that back then as well because Oregon and USC were pretty strong. I think it would've been a good cultural fit and I'd love more west coast road trips like USC in 2017. But since the power has shifted to the SEC, I'm fine with our move. I don't like being in bed with some of the SEC schools but the matchups are going to be really great. 

Edited July 8, 2022 by mdmost