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Joe Biden 2023: The Dark Brandon Rises


StassneyHorn

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5 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Yep, and half of the people are below average intelligence.

when voting for an incumbent many people ask the simple question: Am I better today than I was 4 years ago. And there’s a whole army of online sources telling you that you’re not. They will tell you that gas was $1.99 on Election Day in 2020.  The world was at peace. American tax dollars was staying in America and not going to fight non-American wars.

And when TikTok feeds me these “facts”, I could take the time to validate them myself but there’s another video waiting for me to swipe. Not to mention that TikTok will soon feed me a similar video(es) that will cement those fake ideas in my head.

Ah the good ol firehose of falsehoods. Not only did republicans take russian money, they also took their propaganda techniques

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4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Ah the good ol firehose of falsehoods. Not only did republicans take russian money, they also took their propaganda techniques

Influencers are paid whores to say whatever you want from them. You don’t need to explicitly get them to say vote for this politician or this one, just get them to repeat lies or half-truths. The good news is that most of their viewers are too lazy to vote if not too lazy to register. However this can be a low cost method to buy votes.

gone are the days that people would look to experts for info, not that those experts didn’t also had agendas as well.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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40 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Yep, and half of the people are below average intelligence.

when voting for an incumbent many people ask the simple question: Am I better today than I was 4 years ago. And there’s a whole army of online sources telling you that you’re not. They will tell you that gas was $1.99 on Election Day in 2020.  The world was at peace. American tax dollars was staying in America and not going to fight non-American wars.

Then again, a quarter million Americans had died unnecessary deaths by election day 2020.  So, you know.

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44 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

Not to come across as overly protectionist, and I get Japan is an ally (currently), but not sure how I feel about selling an historic (and large middle class job provider) and American institution.

Again, I'm torn, but it does sound like there is bipartisan support to cause some friction for the deal from both R's and D's in PA, OH, etc.

https://www.wsj.com/business/deals/white-house-says-14-1-billion-u-s-steel-sale-deserves-serious-scrutiny-8e709ae2?

White House Says $14.1 Billion U.S. Steel Sale Deserves ‘Serious Scrutiny’

Under deal, Japan’s Nippon Steel would acquire one of America’s most storied industrial enterprises

Obviously no one else thinks US Steel is worth $14.1B or they would have bought it. The only national interest that I can see with this is if we think Nippon Steel will eventually close all US operations. But there's nothing stopping US Steel from doing that today anyway. And does it really help when the govt requires inefficient companies from finding an owner that gives them the best chance.

Whether or not US Steel is historic or storied, who cares. Plenty of historic companies and even industries often disappear. 

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5 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Obviously no one else thinks US Steel is worth $14.1B or they would have bought it. The only national interest that I can see with this is if we think Nippon Steel will eventually close all US operations. But there's nothing stopping US Steel from doing that today anyway. And does it really help when the govt requires inefficient companies from finding an owner that gives them the best chance.

Whether or not US Steel is historic or storied, who cares. Plenty of historic companies and even industries often disappear. 

Hey, wasn't trump supposed to save the US steel industry?? Wha happen???

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3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Obviously no one else thinks US Steel is worth $14.1B or they would have bought it. The only national interest that I can see with this is if we think Nippon Steel will eventually close all US operations. But there's nothing stopping US Steel from doing that today anyway. And does it really help when the govt requires inefficient companies from finding an owner that gives them the best chance.

Whether or not US Steel is historic or storied, who cares. Plenty of historic companies and even industries often disappear. 

Yep definitely not worth $14.1bn to anyone else-- I think the American (Cleveland Cliffs?) offer was like $8bn. The story says Nippon is baking in a 40% premium to get the deal. 

Lots of reasons why Steel manufacturing has left us (and I think China dominates, even Nippon is only ~4th largest Steel org), but this is a home and swing state issue for any would-be President, Trump or Biden whomever. Pennsylvania and Ohio and that whole area, this is a kitchen table issue and the politicians are responding likewise (e.g. Fetterman has come out against it, Biden's team is communicating a wariness, etc.)

But to your point, it is actually good and smart business. The question is, does it matter that we nominally own it?

I read a blurb about how other "iconic American brands are owned by foreign corporations" like about how parts of GE is owned by Haier (Chinese) and people don't know or care, so maybe this blows over. 

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4 hours ago, BeardIP said:

Not to come across as overly protectionist, and I get Japan is an ally (currently), but not sure how I feel about selling an historic (and large middle class job provider) and American institution.

15 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

But to your point, it is actually good and smart business. The question is, does it matter that we nominally own it?

I read a blurb about how other "iconic American brands are owned by foreign corporations" like about how parts of GE is owned by Haier (Chinese) and people don't know or care, so maybe this blows over. 

Counterpoint: How many foreign companies that were considered "institutions" in their country-of-origin have been bought by American companies?

It's not like it's something that is going to be picked up and moved to Japan.

With that said, I think the Haier/GE stuff is GE Appliances, so I'm not too concerned about that versus US Steel, which could be seen as a national security issue.  Of course, we sell (or share with) Japan our best military hardware, and again, they can't pick US Steel up and move it, so if something happened between the US and Japan, it's not going anywhere, so it's less of an issue.

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31 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Counterpoint: How many foreign companies that were considered "institutions" in their country-of-origin have been bought by American companies?

It's not like it's something that is going to be picked up and moved to Japan.

With that said, I think the Haier/GE stuff is GE Appliances, so I'm not too concerned about that versus US Steel, which could be seen as a national security issue.  Of course, we sell (or share with) Japan our best military hardware, and again, they can't pick US Steel up and move it, so if something happened between the US and Japan, it's not going anywhere, so it's less of an issue.

That's actually a great question. I don't know off the top of my head and actually can't think of any. Every multinational I can think of that have a big and important presence in the U.S. seem to be still corporately HQ'ed and owned by the domiciled country (e.g. Robert Bosch, Veolia, Suez, Lafarge, Heidleberg, SAP, Sony, Samsung, ByteDance, etc.).

Even a quick google search just shows the opposite-- I wonder if it's not worth us acquiring foreign companies and making them American rather than just engaging in trade. 

Our examples include:

Budweiser

Chrysler / Dodge

Burger King

Firestone

and 7-Eleven.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/19/business/american-companies-foreign-owners-us-steel/index.html

Edited by BeardIP
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According to my really smart friends and family, pardoning marijuana users will result in mass riots, looting CVS, and burning down federal buildings---right?  

To those pardoned, you don't owe the system that fucked you over anything.  But if you don't get off your fucking ass and vote this November, you and Neil Diamond can fuck right off! 

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1 minute ago, YGIFS said:

According to my really smart friends and family, pardoning marijuana users will result in mass riots, looting CVS, and burning down federal buildings---right?  

To those pardoned, you don't owe the system that fucked you over anything.  But if you don't get off your fucking ass and vote this November, you and Neil Diamond can fuck right off! 

Well, he’s America’s greatest songwriter and he’s our hero so…

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On 12/17/2023 at 9:51 PM, BeardIP said:

Not to explicitly ask if it's the chicken or the egg, but I remember reading about food desserts years ago and how Dollar Generals/Family Dollars dominate in poor areas, and read about how larger chains and healthier options can't survive in poor areas because poor people don't value and buy the same foodstuffs (fresh foods, etc.) at the volume, rate and margins as other economic demographic areas do.

So, do healthy/good options not exist in those areas because they need to be subsidized?

No, it just costs more for these smaller stores to maintain good fresh produce, baked goods and meat.  They have to charge more for produce for instance to make up for the spoilage they will have because they don't sell in as much volume.  My community of 1500 has no local store, we go 10 miles to a town of 1200 who has a Brookshires and two different dollar stores.  Then 45 miles further either way is a Kroger, HEB or Walmart Superstore.  It's very hard for these small groceries to stay competitive and keep their doors open.  Its not that the people are poor and make poor choices, but more like they have fewer choices.  A lot of these folks have gardens or neighbors with gardens too.  Many of them either hunt or have friends who hunt or fish and they have freezers full of meat and pantries full of home canned goods.   Not everyone, but many do.  

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3 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

Merry Christmas !

 

Ugh, social media doing its thing to guarantee a backlash and help the orange menace. This applies only in D.C. and the extraordinarily rare situation of a federal charge of simple possession. The D.C. part is significant, the rest isn't. He can't pardon for state crimes. The youths are gonna figure that out and blame him for not pardoning them too without considering that he doesn't have the authority. 

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2 hours ago, BeardIP said:

Yep definitely not worth $14.1bn to anyone else-- I think the American (Cleveland Cliffs?) offer was like $8bn. The story says Nippon is baking in a 40% premium to get the deal. 

Lots of reasons why Steel manufacturing has left us (and I think China dominates, even Nippon is only ~4th largest Steel org), but this is a home and swing state issue for any would-be President, Trump or Biden whomever. Pennsylvania and Ohio and that whole area, this is a kitchen table issue and the politicians are responding likewise (e.g. Fetterman has come out against it, Biden's team is communicating a wariness, etc.)

But to your point, it is actually good and smart business. The question is, does it matter that we nominally own it?

I read a blurb about how other "iconic American brands are owned by foreign corporations" like about how parts of GE is owned by Haier (Chinese) and people don't know or care, so maybe this blows over. 

 

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

Counterpoint: How many foreign companies that were considered "institutions" in their country-of-origin have been bought by American companies?

It's not like it's something that is going to be picked up and moved to Japan.

With that said, I think the Haier/GE stuff is GE Appliances, so I'm not too concerned about that versus US Steel, which could be seen as a national security issue.  Of course, we sell (or share with) Japan our best military hardware, and again, they can't pick US Steel up and move it, so if something happened between the US and Japan, it's not going anywhere, so it's less of an issue.

My issue is that they may change the company culture so much that American steel workers may bail and go find other work. Watch the documentary American Factory on Netflix.  It was China in that instance, but if the Japanese working culture is anything similar, I foresee messiness. 

 

image.jpeg.7dcdeadacf7ecfd2f5a3a8e6c21cae63.jpeg

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1 hour ago, BeardIP said:

That's actually a great question. I don't know off the top of my head and actually can't think of any.

Ford owned Land Rover for a while.  There’s other smaller companies out there. It’s hard to find because of the obsession with American brands owned by foreign companies.  It’s also the trend for a lot of American companies to merge with international companies (Budweiser, etc.)

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10 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Ugh, social media doing its thing to guarantee a backlash and help the orange menace. This applies only in D.C. and the extraordinarily rare situation of a federal charge of simple possession. The D.C. part is significant, the rest isn't. He can't pardon for state crimes. The youths are gonna figure that out and blame him for not pardoning them too without considering that he doesn't have the authority. 

Good point, but it can be pivoted to show how Biden is leading the way on changes that need to be made.  Doing all he can, and if you didn't get pardoned then look to your state to vote in people who will follow his lead.  If nothing else, it starts the conversation and should eventually render some reliable statistics.  

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27 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

Good point, but it can be pivoted to show how Biden is leading the way on changes that need to be made.  Doing all he can, and if you didn't get pardoned then look to your state to vote in people who will follow his lead.  If nothing else, it starts the conversation and should eventually render some reliable statistics.  

True, but he should be on a podium asking congress to delist marijuana, and encouraging states to decriminalize. The tweet says "All Americans with simple procession are now pardoned." I guarantee you next week Tik Tok etc will be going crazy about how Grandpa Joe lied because their friend is still in jail. The tweet literally cuts off the next section that identifies its application to DC and federal law. 

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3 minutes ago, 'stache said:

True, but he should be on a podium asking congress to delist marijuana, and encouraging states to decriminalize. The tweet says "All Americans with simple procession are now pardoned." I guarantee you next week Tik Tok etc will be going crazy about how Grandpa Joe lied because their friend is still in jail. The tweet literally cuts off the next section that identifies its application to DC and federal law. 

This makes sense as I googled it after reading it here (because I thought it would be a way bigger, more massive deal) and saw it was pretty limited in scope to "thousands" of people versus the mass volume of folks across the U.S.

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1 hour ago, 'stache said:

Ugh, social media doing its thing to guarantee a backlash and help the orange menace. This applies only in D.C. and the extraordinarily rare situation of a federal charge of simple possession. The D.C. part is significant, the rest isn't. He can't pardon for state crimes. The youths are gonna figure that out and blame him for not pardoning them too without considering that he doesn't have the authority. 

liberal media strikes again

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On 12/23/2023 at 2:27 AM, atomheartbevo said:

Counterpoint: How many foreign companies that were considered "institutions" in their country-of-origin have been bought by American companies?

It's not like it's something that is going to be picked up and moved to Japan.

With that said, I think the Haier/GE stuff is GE Appliances, so I'm not too concerned about that versus US Steel, which could be seen as a national security issue.  Of course, we sell (or share with) Japan our best military hardware, and again, they can't pick US Steel up and move it, so if something happened between the US and Japan, it's not going anywhere, so it's less of an issue.

Dude, they get US Steel, we get Ohtani and the other dude. We’re coming out way ahead in this. 

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Almost 10 million workers in 22 states will get raises on January 1. See where wages are rising.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/minimum-wage-increase-january-1-2024-see-the-states/

 

  • Alaska: $11.73
  • Arizona: $14.35
  • California: $16
  • Colorado: $14.42
  • Connecticut: $15.69
  • Delaware: $13.25
  • Hawaii: $14
  • Illinois: $14
  • Maine: $14.15
  • Maryland: $15
  • Michigan: $10.33
  • Minnesota: $10.85
  • Missouri: $12.30
  • Montana: $10.30
  • Nebraska: $12
  • New Jersey: $15.13
  • New York: $16
  • Ohio: $10.45
  • Rhode Island: $14
  • South Dakota: $11.20
  • Vermont: $13.67
  • Washington: $16.28 

Denver will have a minimum wage in the $18 range and lots of California cities will be above $16

 

 

Edited by StassneyHorn
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On 12/22/2023 at 12:02 PM, tx 3 putt said:

Half Baked Yes GIF


Fox News:

Biden and Democrats release millions of felons on the streets and expunge their records.

They now live amongst us without proof of their misdeeds.

This is just further proof of the defund Democrats letting criminals run rampant through or streets. How can we be safe in a Biden world?

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On 12/22/2023 at 3:10 PM, 'stache said:

Ugh, social media doing its thing to guarantee a backlash and help the orange menace. This applies only in D.C. and the extraordinarily rare situation of a federal charge of simple possession. The D.C. part is significant, the rest isn't. He can't pardon for state crimes. The youths are gonna figure that out and blame him for not pardoning them too without considering that he doesn't have the authority. 

Not to mention, all those crimes are misdemeanors.

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On 12/22/2023 at 3:12 PM, Biff Tannen said:

 

My issue is that they may change the company culture so much that American steel workers may bail and go find other work. Watch the documentary American Factory on Netflix.  It was China in that instance, but if the Japanese working culture is anything similar, I foresee messiness. 

 

image.jpeg.7dcdeadacf7ecfd2f5a3a8e6c21cae63.jpeg

Japan, Inc. has learned the Asian/American lessons that China, Inc. and Taiwan, Inc. have not learned.  Thousands of Toyota and Honda American auto workers are just fine.

In other words, to paraphrase PJ O'Rourke, the Japanese do not require American workers to pluck their lunch from a fish tank or croon the corporate anthem while doing morning calisthenics.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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On 12/17/2023 at 5:06 PM, Neonmoon said:

I wonder why 

image.thumb.jpeg.0ee4069e2a291dd1b1091c2b24075834.jpeg

Between this ^^

And the conversation we were having last week about how the economy is doing awesome but people don't feel like it is, I read two things that were interesting and sort of colored in some of the gaps I had and the theme is "Vibes".

1) There is now a name to the phenomenon about the factual and nominal economy doing well in charts but people not feeling it or perceiving it to be good in their practical life: it's called "The Vibecession": https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-12-07/the-ghost-of-vibecessions-past-is-haunting-our-holidays-lpvrkrnp?sref=KkPzpZvz

2) Gen Z has an obsession with "Vibes" as a metric, as nebulous as that term is. Read something about how they should consider vibes for a job: https://nypost.com/2023/11/18/lifestyle/gen-z-workers-say-they-should-be-hired-for-their-personality/

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27 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

2) Gen Z has an obsession with "Vibes" as a metric, as nebulous as that term is. Read something about how they should consider vibes for a job: https://nypost.com/2023/11/18/lifestyle/gen-z-workers-say-they-should-be-hired-for-their-personality/

I'm taking that with a GIANT grain of salt.  I could see how someone's personality would help them get a job of course, but the idea that someone would get a job and not do any work and just provide workplace culture is dumb as shit and I don't believe any company would subscribe to that either.

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25 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I'm taking that with a GIANT grain of salt.  I could see how someone's personality would help them get a job of course, but the idea that someone would get a job and not do any work and just provide workplace culture is dumb as shit and I don't believe any company would subscribe to that either.

Completely agree. I don't think it would ever happen-- it's just comical that Gen Z's think it SHOULD happen. And telling, IMO.

And to tie it back to the thread-- we are trending more about how things "feel" than how they "are" which helps to explain for me, at least, why the disconnect with the economy.

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1 hour ago, BeardIP said:

Between this ^^

And the conversation we were having last week about how the economy is doing awesome but people don't feel like it is, I read two things that were interesting and sort of colored in some of the gaps I had and the theme is "Vibes".

1) There is now a name to the phenomenon about the factual and nominal economy doing well in charts but people not feeling it or perceiving it to be good in their practical life: it's called "The Vibecession": https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-12-07/the-ghost-of-vibecessions-past-is-haunting-our-holidays-lpvrkrnp?sref=KkPzpZvz

2) Gen Z has an obsession with "Vibes" as a metric, as nebulous as that term is. Read something about how they should consider vibes for a job: https://nypost.com/2023/11/18/lifestyle/gen-z-workers-say-they-should-be-hired-for-their-personality/

I mean, employers are still listing "Graduate Degree Preferred" for jobs and not stating the starting salary which usually ends up being $30K or $40K. The job market for new entrants still sucks shit, and big employers are still complete assholes saving most of the profits for the executives and shareholders and giving Jelly of the Month certificates as holiday bonuses. Housing is still stupid expensive and homeownership is out of reach for a bunch of people in their 20's. "The economy" and the stock market rarely is great for the younger generations. There's lots of chatter about fixing the housing, education, and healthcare markets, but its not gotten much better. 

To me, the bigger problem is that John Yokel thinks its great when their favorite player (i.e., republican politician) is in office and Forbes declares the economy great, and doesn't care even a little bit if they are actually benefitting (since at least 1980 they're not). Left leaning youths see that things are terrible for them and not getting better and don't treat politics like a spectator sport. I don't blame them for their perceptions based on lived realities. It's a major problem for Democrats. A bunch of them talk about fixing the problems, but only the far left flank like AOC etc. are proposing actual solutions. Mainstream democrats are still scared to death to raise taxes or fund real policies to fix the issues. Student loan relief was about the boldest proposition and the bought and paid for scotus shot it down.

It's unfortunate, but the dems really do have to rely right now on trump and friends being truly terrible. I hope the youths will at least vote to avoid things being demonstrably worse letting true fascists run the country. But if the dems really want the youth vote we need more progressive candidates to win elections, at least in Congress. I doubt the country is ready to give a true progressive a legitimate shot at the white house, but we need more than a "squad" of a handful of congresspersons to really press for the needed changes. 

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52 minutes ago, 'stache said:

homeownership is out of reach for a bunch of people in their 20's.

Do you recall a time when this wasn't the case?

In the olden days, young couples had to scrimp and save for a decade or more, absent a gift from the parents, just to qualify for a mortgage (typically 20% down).  There is no magic right to homeownership.

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