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32 minutes ago, Captainant said:

We know there's not going to be a record of trump saying "do this thing for me that is overtly criminal". Cohen told us how he operates, like a monster does. And thank goodness for great lawyers like twice that make sure he'll always be protected by individually assessing each fuckery he does rather than considering the totality of his actions and constantly assuming he's an honest actor that is entitled to the benefit of the doubt. 

BeCaUsE iF wE dOnT gIvE rEaSoNaBlE dOuBt tO tRuMp NoBoDy WiLl GeT iT!!! 

Fuck.

Off.

Again.

Explaining how reasonable doubt works and how you don't indict a criminal case based on some stupid shit you read on Twitter isn't advocating for Trump's acquittal.

It's explaining "why not done."

No there's probably not going to be a smoking gun, so you have to rely on circumstantial evidence.  And if you want to convict the motherfucker, you gather up all the circumstantial evidence you can put your hands on:  Walt Nauta, Evan Corcoran, the security tapes, the people that altered the security tapes, the people that told the people to alter the security tapes.

And you exclude any reasonable doubt from any prospective jurors mind.

You don't go to court and say, see, Trump said this and it means the worst possible thing because CaptainCunt said he's not an honest actor. 

I thought you said you'd stop being a cunt.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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35 minutes ago, Captainant said:

We know there's not going to be a record of trump saying "do this thing for me that is overtly criminal". Cohen told us how he operates, like a monster does. And thank goodness for great lawyers like twice that make sure he'll always be protected by individually assessing each fuckery he does rather than considering the totality of his actions and constantly assuming he's an honest actor that is entitled to the benefit of the doubt. 

BeCaUsE iF wE dOnT gIvE rEaSoNaBlE dOuBt tO tRuMp NoBoDy WiLl GeT iT!!! 

And double fuck you in your fucking face for accusing me of assuming Trump is an honest actor.

You want to know how to make sure he gets fucking acquitted? 

Take your case to court assuming that he is NOT an honest actor and let that substitute for proof.

Finally, yet again, you seem to be arguing that Trump should not receive the constitutionally required burden of proof.   Who's the fascist again?

I'm not arguing for it or against it.  I'm telling you how it IS and how it's going to work within the framework of how it is.

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1 hour ago, tx 3 putt said:


correct 

 

but if you were instructed by the douche to do this, would you rather face obstruction charges or sing like a bird on a plea deal ?

someone made the call on this move 

You see, though, sing or not, when you accumulate all these little bits of evidence of obstruction, the case becomes more and more convincing.  It may not make it a slam dunk, but all these bits and pieces are turning it into an uncontested layup.

Even if they don't narc out Trump, it becomes harder and harder for defense counsel to create reasonable doubt, and for even the most dubious juror to accept an explanation that it was other than Donald J. Trump that ordered the deletion of portions of the security tapes dealing with document storage.

This niggling, excruciating detail is how you build a convictable criminal case.  And why it takes so goddamn long to do it.

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13 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

You don't go to court and say, see, Trump said this and it means the worst possible thing because CaptainCunt said he's not an honest actor. 

I thought you said you'd stop being a cunt.

Now who's putting words in mouths? You're giving Annie a run for his money with how far you're misrepresenting what I'm saying. 

I'm saying that based on his fucking history of lying to the public and in conflicting court filings by his legal representation, we should stop being so credulous about all the little things that just happen to add another week or two of delay here or there and continue to creep closer and closer to another election where we are at true peril again. 

13 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Finally, yet again, you seem to be arguing that Trump should not receive the constitutionally required burden of proof.   Who's the fascist again?

Not what I'm saying, and not what I've posted, but mmmkay. I'm not saying we fucking round him up and put him in a gas chamber - I'm just saying that MAYBE, just MAYBE all of these acts by trumpco to delay shit and obstruct should be responded to in real time by the court system. Rather than letting it happen and delay more and more. 

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1 minute ago, Chooky said:

Honestly, @Captainant, do you seriously blame Twice for all of your "how can this stand" angst?  It's a truly bizarre grudge.  

Thank you, sometimes I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

The major thing I'm trying to combat here is the impatience.  It's a tedious process.  Lawdogging is one of the most tedious jobs in the world and now finally everyone is kind of getting a taste of the delay and aggravation and water-dripping-on-a-rock that is the practice of law.

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If we let trump get to the 2024 election cycle our democratic process is going to be fucking fucked. 

Texas is going to take away my fucking vote because I live in Harris county. 

We cannot afford to let the clock run with our dicks in our hands. 

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8 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Now who's putting words in mouths? You're giving Annie a run for his money with how far you're misrepresenting what I'm saying. 

I'm saying that based on his fucking history of lying to the public and in conflicting court filings by his legal representation, we should stop being so credulous about all the little things that just happen to add another week or two of delay here or there and continue to creep closer and closer to another election where we are at true peril again. 

Not what I'm saying, and not what I've posted, but mmmkay. I'm not saying we fucking round him up and put him in a gas chamber - I'm just saying that MAYBE, just MAYBE all of these acts by trumpco to delay shit and obstruct should be responded to in real time by the court system. Rather than letting it happen and delay more and more. 

Dude, this is real time by the court system.  IT IS LAWDOG REALITY.  Most of Trump's bullshit since the election has been dispensed with in matters of weeks or months, which is fucking light speed in lawyer time.

A week in law time is a femtosecond.  That's reality.  For everyone, rich poor, whatever.

All the things we know or think we know about Trump don't come into the courtroom unless it's by admissible evidence.

It takes time and effort to prepare this stuff.  You can't seem to accept that reality, and for some reason blame me for explaining it to you.

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9 minutes ago, Captainant said:

If we let trump get to the 2024 election cycle our democratic process is going to be fucking fucked. 

Texas is going to take away my fucking vote because I live in Harris county. 

We cannot afford to let the clock run with our dicks in our hands. 

Got bad news for you.

If he was convicted before the general, or the primary, it wouldn't take him off the ballot.  So, he's getting to the primary and the general if people are willing to vote for indicted, maybe even convicted candidates for President.

And, nothing we're talking about on this thread has any effect on the stupid shit the Texas lege is doing.  Or Florida or any of the other magat shit.

Your one single hope for the Harris County problem is, if it happens, the court system saves it.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

A week in law time is a femtosecond.  That's reality. 

We are 78 femtoseconds away from another flashpoint for a fascist attempt to overthrow democracy. 

6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

It takes time and effort to prepare this stuff.  You can't seem to accept that reality, and for some reason blame me for explaining it to you.

No I get it, it's just that you're the one out here defending taking our sweet ass time prosecuting the fascists, so I'm gonna take my frustration out on you. History shows us that course of action leads to deeply unhappy and awful times. Things already aren't great here in Texas. Hell my vote may not even fucking get counted because I had the temerity to live in Harris county. 

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Your one single hope for the Harris County problem is, if it happens, the court system saves it.

image.thumb.png.cffb5e70d5c73246f7c696de02f91c2a.png

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2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

We are 78 femtoseconds away from another flashpoint for a fascist attempt to overthrow democracy. 

No I get it, it's just that you're the one out here defending taking our sweet ass time prosecuting the fascists, so I'm gonna take my frustration out on you. History shows us that course of action leads to deeply unhappy and awful times. Things already aren't great here in Texas. Hell my vote may not even fucking get counted because I had the temerity to live in Harris county. 

image.thumb.png.cffb5e70d5c73246f7c696de02f91c2a.png

I suppose it is a somewhat fine line between "defending" and explaining.  

I'm not defending the time it takes to get a case through court, I'm explaining why that is.  I don't bitch and moan about it because I got it hammered into me starting 32 years ago when I first started this shit.

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5 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Fuck me

Yep, funny how one little rape joke in 1991 that helped sink a gubernatorial campaign led to hundreds of thousands, maybe a million or more, deaths across the Middle East and North Africa, and ultimately gave us Trump.

I've surprised a few people when pointing it out, but it's pretty simple when you lay it all out - Bush has to be governor in the 90s to win the White House in 2000, and arguably Obama needed Bush in there for 8 years (along with Iraq, which was a Bush priority, and would not have been a Gore priority) so that people became weary of the Republicans and Iraq and were willing to give a relative outsider a chance.  If Obama doesn't run in  (or doesn't win) 2008, he's not making jokes about Trump in 2011 at the White House correspondents' dinner.

And even if Clayton only serves a few terms as Texas Governor (and let's not kid ourselves, he would have been in there for three terms at least), and then George W runs and wins the Governor's seat, that's still slid any chances of him running for the White House down by at least one election cycle to 2004.  And if we aren't in Iraq in 2003 and Gore manages Afghanistan fairly well (because no distractions with Iraq) and wins in 2004 because don't change horses in midstream, then it's two election cycles.  Me thinks that after 12-16 years of Democrats running the WH, a Republican would easily win, so it'd probably be Bush.  He'd get two terms probably, so Obama doesn't get his chance until 2016 at least.  Meanwhile Trump is still chugging along on his reality TV shows (probably different ones), and even if when Obama wins in 2016 (and that's a big if, the Democratic field could be deep), he probably gets two terms as long as he doesn't fuck up.  If the birther movement doesn't get going until 2016-2017, well even if Trump pushes it, if Obama is mocking him in 2019 instead of 2011, well a 78 year-old Trump ain't winning his first term in 2024.

It's wild to think about things like how one comment ruining a gubernatorial campaign can set in motion some crazy shit.

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If Ryan doesn’t take his wife to an underground sex club, Obama probably tops out as a Congressman or mayor of Chicago.  Ryan is finishing bankrupting rexhomes here in Austin and will openly tell you about what coulda been.  Between him and Clayton, the whole of western civilization would be completely different today and I wouldn’t wake up each day thinking about my kids and the death of Donald trump.  

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16 hours ago, nbmishoid said:

Well, while modern humans are pegged at 200k years ago, pre human types were walking around.   He prolly is fantasizing being an Australopithecus Robustus trying to assault all the Aferensis in sight.  Still a disgusting thought.  Those footsteps in the sandstone are running away from pre human tfg.  

Ah the first of our ancestors to roast coffee

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10 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

So, I was focused on 1443, which deals with civil rights violations, as does the case cited by gatorubet. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/1443

There's also 1442, which seems initially less controversial as it is an aspect of sovereign immunity by which federal agencies and officials can't be sued in state courts.  It permits removal when the defendant in a civil or criminal action is:

The United States or any agency thereof or any officer (or any person acting under that officer) of the United States or of any agency thereof, in an official or individual capacity, for or relating to any act under color of such office or on account of any right, title or authority claimed under any Act of Congress for the apprehension or punishment of criminals or the collection of the revenue.

That's the provision applied in the case scottsins referenced, and I don't think it's going to help Trump.  But yeah, any federal employee acting under color of office could probably invoke that.

Pretty sure paying out hush money isn't an official duty of the office of POTUS.  But what do I know?

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9 hours ago, Captainant said:

Now who's putting words in mouths? You're giving Annie a run for his money with how far you're misrepresenting what I'm saying. 

I'm saying that based on his fucking history of lying to the public and in conflicting court filings by his legal representation, we should stop being so credulous about all the little things that just happen to add another week or two of delay here or there and continue to creep closer and closer to another election where we are at true peril again. 

Not what I'm saying, and not what I've posted, but mmmkay. I'm not saying we fucking round him up and put him in a gas chamber - I'm just saying that MAYBE, just MAYBE all of these acts by trumpco to delay shit and obstruct should be responded to in real time by the court system. Rather than letting it happen and delay more and more. 

This reads like a derka post. 

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14 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Dude, this is real time by the court system.  IT IS LAWDOG REALITY.  Most of Trump's bullshit since the election has been dispensed with in matters of weeks or months, which is fucking light speed in lawyer time.

A week in law time is a femtosecond.  That's reality.  For everyone, rich poor, whatever.

053200BE-21BF-476A-AAC1-2F144853F501.thumb.png.cf6ecb0ea54574796743c01bcecf9aff.png

For example, I just captured this from the federal fifth circuit website. Most of the matters before the court are appeals from trials rather than writs. That means a notice of appeal is filed only after all of the time to do depositions, and to exchange documents, and to hire experts, and to have a trial.  Federal court moves like lightning compared to state court, but even in federal court it might take a year to get to trial, and as numerous trials are set on the same day, you can get bumped and reset and wait some more.  

In other words, even when you know every single thing about a case, it takes almost 11 months for the court of appeal to decide the matter on appeal - no matter how long it took to actually get to the verdict you are appealing.   Again, about a year AS A MEDIAN to figure out who’s right when everything about the case is already in the record.

In my parish, the state civil district court average time from filing to disposition of a civil suit is somewhere between three and five years.  That is just how it is.  

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1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

Try harder 

I understand that civics was not your thing in school, but had you paid the slightest attention they would have taught you that lawyers are not responsible for things like how many court rooms are built and how many judges are hired.  Lawyers who practice in that court are not responsible for the Senate refusing to fill judicial positions because of bullshit politics, nor are we in charge of allocating falling state tax resources to the state court systems after MAGA tax cuts.  Nor are we responsible for societal issues that result in rises in criminal activity - that leads to increased criminal charges - that leads to increased criminal trials - that bump the civil trials because of speedy trial rules mandating that criminal trials go first.

Putting it differently, instead of your ‘try harder’ comment why don’t you offer up even the smallest example of what your extensive research has shown to fix the problem before you share your solution with the board. I note your equivalent “turn the desert to glass” response on middle east foreign policy solutions as applied here on the court delay issue. 

Try harder.  Fucking brilliant.  Nobody thought of that. 

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1 hour ago, Gatorubet said:

053200BE-21BF-476A-AAC1-2F144853F501.thumb.png.cf6ecb0ea54574796743c01bcecf9aff.png

For example, I just captured this from the federal fifth circuit website. Most of the matters before the court are appeals from trials rather than writs. That means a notice of appeal is filed only after all of the time to do depositions, and to exchange documents, and to hire experts, and to have a trial.  Federal court moves like lightning compared to state court, but even in federal court it might take a year to get to trial, and as numerous trials are set on the same day, you can get bumped and reset and wait some more.  

In other words, even when you know every single thing about a case, it takes almost 11 months for the court of appeal to decide the matter on appeal - no matter how long it took to actually get to the verdict you are appealing.   Again, about a year AS A MEDIAN to figure out who’s right when everything about the case is already in the record.

In my parish, the state civil district court average time from filing to disposition of a civil suit is somewhere between three and five years.  That is just how it is.  

You lawyers need to get your shit together.

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48 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Try harder.  Fucking brilliant.  Nobody thought of that. 

 

Quote

Putting it differently, instead of your ‘try harder’ comment why don’t you offer up even the smallest example of what your extensive research has shown to fix the problem before you share your solution with the board.

Bill by the case instead of by the hour and I bet things speed up.  We gotta figure out everything for you chucklefucks?

Edited by Fudge Nuggets
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2 hours ago, Chooky said:

I have the same fear when it comes to trunq running out the clock and red state fuckery as @Captainant.

It's a legit fear, no question. 

However, when you think it through, an alternative scenario of conviction and jail doesn't necessarily alter the outcome w/r/to Trump and does jack shit about Abbott, DeSantis and their merry band of fuck sticks. 

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53 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

 

Bill by the case instead of by the hour and I bet things speed up.  We gotta figure out everything for you chucklefucks?

Criminal lawyers tend to bill by the case. 

The main reason it's slow is no one wants to pay for more judges and courtrooms and prosecutors.  As Gatorubet describes. 

That the Dominion case went to trial so relatively fast was fairly miraculous, but also remember that Delaware specifically courts corporate filings and part of that includes a swift civil justice system. And as a tiny state, their judiciary is relatively unburdened with criminal and family cases, which typically have prioritiy over general civil cases 

 

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3 hours ago, Chooky said:

I have the same fear when it comes to trunq running out the clock and red state fuckery as @Captainant.

It's going to happen. No way more indictments, trials, verdicts, and appeals are happening in the next 18 months. Just isn't going to conclude in that time period. 

But in reality the system of government here relies on a large percentage of the population choosing one side over the other, and if that large percentage chooses criminals under indictment then nothing is going to save the country. That's the last of the fail safe measures and if the people choose that path then nothing is going to stand in the way. Just accept it and watch the place burn down around you. Or if you can get out then get out soon before "refugees" from the US are looked down upon as badly as the west looks down upon African and middle east refugees. 

The wife and I have talked about it and talked to our older teen daughter about it and have discussed with both our families. We've pretty much decided this is home and at least for the time being we'd rather die here together than uproot and be a refugee somewhere else. But every American who has the possibility of making that choice will need to make that choice. 

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8 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Pretty sure paying out hush money isn't an official duty of the office of POTUS.  But what do I know?

That’s exactly why it won't work. 

However, it occurs to me that they may have argued in the federal court that Trump was responsible for and directed all of the payments while POTUS to try to invoke the removal provision, to make it look more like an official act. 

That might be a fun judicial admission in the criminal case. 

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2 hours ago, Hermanator said:

It's going to happen. No way more indictments, trials, verdicts, and appeals are happening in the next 18 months.

Georgia's moving to strip "rogue" DAs that they don't like of their powers/cases/whatever, but it doesn't kick in until October, so I have a feeling the Atlanta stuff happens probably in July and moves fast.

2 hours ago, Hermanator said:

The wife and I have talked about it and talked to our older teen daughter about it and have discussed with both our families. We've pretty much decided this is home and at least for the time being we'd rather die here together than uproot and be a refugee somewhere else. But every American who has the possibility of making that choice will need to make that choice. 

If we can find a way out (issues with state pension stuff), we are out, because why put our kids through this shit when they/we could be just as happy/happier elsewhere?

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21 hours ago, Hermanator said:

The wife and I have talked about it and talked to our older teen daughter about it and have discussed with both our families. We've pretty much decided this is home and at least for the time being we'd rather die here together than uproot and be a refugee somewhere else. But every American who has the possibility of making that choice will need to make that choice. 

Meanwhile at Ubet’s new home

4520A73B-8FC5-4E04-B284-42868ECFCC67.gif.5fa604c17045607e21e55932f3c65aa3.gif

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22 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

 

Bill by the case instead of by the hour and I bet things speed up.  We gotta figure out everything for you chucklefucks?

Virtually every auto collision case, defective drug or product case, medical malpractice case….hell, almost every negligence case is done with a contingency contract that is not hourly billing.   Private criminal defense cases almost always involve a big retainer upfront, as you are not gonna get paid after your client gets convicted. The other big chunk is domestic/divorce stuff, and the rules of ethics prevent you having a contingency fee in those cases. If you think about it, it makes sense in the most practical of ways - since you can’t take a third of some mom getting custody of the kid or a percentage of a restraining order. 

But I do enjoy how your ignorance is coupled with your belief that your smart noggin figured it out when the entire legal community could not. Kudos.

I mean, no way that us lawyers want things to speed up so we can get paid quicker and our clients get justice sooner.   None of us want that, right?

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It may get to a point where we change our minds. It's difficult because we are very close to our families. My wife's entire family lives in the western part of the metroplex. My family all live in Texas. So we'd have to have the prospects of potentially never seeing them again. We aren't ready to do that. 

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14 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

I mean, no way that us lawyers want things to speed up so we can get paid quicker and our clients get justice sooner.   None of us want that, right?

Not bad enough, apparently.  Put some of that lobbying largess to good use instead of using it to fuck us over all the time.

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I think he's already in the 2024 cycle

On 5/6/2023 at 12:32 AM, Captainant said:

If we let trump get to the 2024 election cycle our democratic process is going to be fucking fucked. 

Texas is going to take away my fucking vote because I live in Harris county. 

 

New motto?

On 5/6/2023 at 12:32 AM, Captainant said:

We cannot afford to let the clock run with our dicks in our hands. 

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2 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Not bad enough, apparently.  Put some of that lobbying largess to good use instead of using it to fuck us over all the time.

The legal profession as a whole are terrible lobbyists.

They occasionally, rarely, get laws passed that favor the tort claimaint class, because for a long time, injury lawyers frequently became state legislators (they could afford to be) but they famously got walked all over by the tort reform lobby.

One of the problems is that for every lawyer that generally favors one position, say personal injury claimaints, there's another that generally favors the opposite position, say tort defense.  So the legal profession as a lobby nets itself out.  But then there are business interests aligned usually with just one of the sides, and they wind up taking the field.  In the above example, the insurance industry aligns with tort defense lawyers and against tort claimants. 

Lawyers probably actually fuck you over less than any other profession.

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3 hours ago, Hermanator said:

It may get to a point where we change our minds. It's difficult because we are very close to our families. My wife's entire family lives in the western part of the metroplex. My family all live in Texas. So we'd have to have the prospects of potentially never seeing them again. We aren't ready to do that. 

Oh you can still visit your family, just prepare your wife and any daughter(s) for the prospect of taking a pregnancy test when you leave the state.

I'm kind of joking.

barack obama GIF

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4 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Not bad enough, apparently.  Put some of that lobbying largess to good use instead of using it to fuck us over all the time.

You do realize you sound like every  Maggat with grievances, with no understanding why and how whatever you’re objecting to got to the where you are.  Which is usually a circumstance that is actually not so bad, save for someone telling you that you should be mad at some group of people responsible for your woes. Here, lawyers. Since you chose not to pay attention to civics, it is easier to claim they (lawyers) “fuck us over all the time”.   You give no actual examples of that.   Just say vague over-broad shit fueled by your enormous capacity for false outrage at someone….you are not sure who…. for doing something….you are not quite sure what. 

Well, I confess you are correct.  You busted us.  We all got together, all the lawyers everywhere, and over baby hormone cocktails and Bud Light plotted how to fuck you over.  The worst are the patent lawyers.  Engineers mostly, and when the rest of us want to fuck over people they delay it - playing with little models they build and making drawings of the fuck overs.   Twice keeps saying,  “Is you taking notes on a criminal fuck Fudge Nuggets over conspiracy???”

Brisket is usually over lecturing the death penalty appeal folks, telling them they are too positive and optimistic.   I’m always near the bar, so I’m always the last to know who we are fucking over next. 

 

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53 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

You give no actual examples of that.

Yawn.

Example 1 of umpteen million, lawyer Gerg Abbott puts a limit on the amount of damages that can be collected after he is set for life by collecting damages.  I didn’t realize I needed to provide examples to the obvious for your stupid ass.

Go away, leach of society.

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8 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Yawn.

Example 1 of umpteen million, lawyer Gerg Abbott puts a limit on the amount of damages that can be collected after he is set for life by collecting damages. 

And he still collects on those damages from the 1980s here in the 2020s, and when questioned, he sees no hypocrisy whatsoever, nor does he feel the need to return any of the fees or donate them to charity.

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1 hour ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Yawn.

Example 1 of umpteen million, lawyer Gerg Abbott puts a limit on the amount of damages that can be collected after he is set for life by collecting damages.  I didn’t realize I needed to provide examples to the obvious for your stupid ass.

Go away, leach of society.

First off, Greg Abbott didn't do that.  He was AG at the time and the AG has nothing to do with the passage of legislation.  That would be the august legislature of the State of Texas and a bill signed by Rick Perry, who is some kind of animal husbander or some shit.

You're not showing off your civics and government knowledge to great effect here.  Perhaps you should rethink slinging around terms like "stupd ass."

Edited by TwiceHorn
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