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Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?


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See what I mean... Politics fucks up everything...

Thread title has dickall to do with politics...

We're not in CR...

Yet here we are talking about fucking politics...

Yes, Elon Musk has done great shit... He made electric cars popular and mass produced... He made tickets reusable...  That is genius shit to pull off.

I don't give 2 shits about his politics.  Buy Twitter and turn it into whatever you want... 

Don't care about the political shit. Y'all would ruin an orgy with that shit.

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14 minutes ago, Snacks said:

See what I mean... Politics fucks up everything...

Thread title has dickall to do with politics...

We're not in CR...

Yet here we are talking about fucking politics...

Yes, Elon Musk has done great shit... He made electric cars popular and mass produced... He made tickets reusable...  That is genius shit to pull off.

I don't give 2 shits about his politics.  Buy Twitter and turn it into whatever you want... 

Don't care about the political shit. Y'all would ruin an orgy with that shit.

Rockets, MFer...

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Gets rightly questioned about intentions by the press, called out by Wall Street for poor culture, fucks with a government investigation surrounding owner deaths, spars with the company he’s purportedly buying, spews odd political rants to a global audience…

…goddamn liberals 

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7 minutes ago, TejanoAtUT said:

Business Insider reached out to Musk yesterday morning for comment on the allegations and within a few hours he did the whole “I’m switching parties expect a lot of political attacks!” thing.

This is just getting embarrassing.

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1 hour ago, longhornmatt said:

I like to start out my orgies by making all the women swear that, if I impregnate them, they won’t abort my unborn child. Then I play some Tucker Carlson in the background to set the mood.

I let Alex set the mood

giphy.gif

 

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Read this today about the ESG stuff and I think Musk probably has a point that the ESG indicies are all pretty much subjective and good for PR and that's about it:

This particular ESG index, which is controlled by the S&P Dow Jones Indices, ranks companies in the S&P 500 based on criteria like whether or not they release sustainability reports, use renewable energy, pay fair wages to their employees, have ethical supply chains, and have a diverse board of directors, among other metrics. During its annual rebalancing, the S&P said Tesla didn’t make the cut for inclusion this year.

Margaret Dorn, the S&P’s head of ESG indices for North America, wrote in a blog post that Tesla lacked “low carbon strategy,” amassed complaints of poor working conditions and racial discrimination in its Fremont factory, and mishandled investigations into injuries and deaths involving the car’s Autopilot feature.

As part of his barrage, Musk argued that electric-vehicle leader Tesla has done “more for the environment than any company ever!” while noting that Exxon Mobil, which literally extracts oil from the ground, was rated in the top 10 for ESG. And a growing number of ESG critics think Musk has a point, arguing that the climate pledges and disclosures measured by the index lack the teeth to do anything but get them on a fancy list.

For example: JPMorgan, the largest lender to the fossil-fuel industry, remains on the index this year. Same with Amazon, which has had its own spats with the National Labor Relations Board.

Even influential ESG proponents are questioning whether the approach has lived up to its principles. BlackRock, the largest asset manager in the world, said it won’t support as many climate disclosure proposals this year because most are pretty arbitrary.

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4 hours ago, TejanoAtUT said:
Quote

The attendant is reported to have been a contract member of the SpaceX’s corporate fleet. She alleged Musk exposed his erect penis, rubbed her leg without consent, and offered to buy her a horse as quid pro quo for an exotic massage, according to interviews and documents Insider said it has.

Deshaun Watson Sport GIF by UFC

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17 hours ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

I know Elon doesn't believe in it, but from a stock holder perspective he really needs Tesla to add a PR department. Lack of a PR department is hurting his company and therefore his future ability to do what he wants to do.

In the EV category, Elon’s most brilliant innovation wasn’t lithium-ion, it was packaging it.  EVs till the Tesla Roadster provoked a collective sigh from anyone who wasn’t a committed environmentalist because they were packaged as ultra-efficient automotive hair shirts.  Sacrifice for the environment.

The roadster got you to sacrifice practicality and comfort and range for image and fun.  No one gives a shit about the range of their two door sports car, it needs to be fast and fun and to look great. Turning the EV into an impractical exclusive toy gave it more cachet and market acceptance than any effort to make a practical commuter EV could have.

I do think that Tesla is going to get its lunch eaten if they don’t get into PR and if they don’t work on quality control now that legacy automakers are diving into EVs feet first.  I also think that Musk’s real money in the future is in StarLink and the space military industrial complex, which has China fuming and Space Command fully enamored. 

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3 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I do think that Tesla is going to get its lunch eaten if they don’t get into PR and if they don’t work on quality control now that legacy automakers are diving into EVs feet first.  I also think that Musk’s real money in the future is in StarLink and the space military industrial complex, which has China fuming and Space Command fully enamored. 

I might be putting words in people's mouths, but it seems everyone thinks Tesla is "just" an automotive company.  They're a data collection and analytics company that also happens to make cars.  They're building a massive neural network that I suspect the other automakers don't even understand or care about. 

This is of course about autonomous vehicles, a market many predict could be in the trillions.  

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19 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Well XOM lost a few board seats to an activist investment firm because they poo-poo'ed ESG for the last several years.  Apparently the board changes woke them the fuck up.

And for sure they know how to game the system.  I won't argue against that, but me and my meteoric returns on XOM stock don't give a flying fuck.

Like I said:   It's a place to bend the knee or suffer the consequences

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56 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

They're building a massive neural network that I suspect the other automakers don't even understand or care about. 

Lol if you don't think other automakers are doing data science with their data, you're drinking too much Kool-aid. Building a "massive neural net" is buzzword nonsense, and not how that field of computer science works lol. I do believe that they're building more models and using data more effectively, but shit man, your garbage company is using ML to infer the best trash pickup route for you, when their trucks will need maintenance, how much revenue they'll derive from reclaiming materials from your waste, etc.

I'd honestly argue that Tesla's biggest strength is their new battery IP, doing machine learning is the baseline that's expected of any company that uses data

Edited by Captainant
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12 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Lol if you don't think other automakers are doing data science with their data, you're drinking too much Kool-aid. Building a "massive neural net" is buzzword nonsense, and not how that field of computer science works lol. I do believe that they're building more models and using data more effectively, but shit man, your garbage company is using ML to infer the best trash pickup route for you, when their trucks will need maintenance, how much revenue they'll derive from reclaiming materials from your waste, etc.

I'd honestly argue that Tesla's biggest strength is their new batter IP, doing machine learning is the baseline that's expected of any company that uses data

In 2018 Tesla had collected more than 3 billion miles of driver data that they are monetizing.  The next closest competitor?  20 million.  Keep fucking that chicken though.  

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6 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

In 2018 Tesla had collected more than 3 billion miles of driver data that they are monetizing.  The next closest competitor?  20 million.  Keep fucking that chicken though.  

But I thought their strength was that they were building a massive neural net, not collecting data? Granted, data collection and preparation is like 80% of the work with machine learning, but I'm just giving you shit for repeating what you heard somewhere else lol

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48 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

In 2018 Tesla had collected more than 3 billion miles of driver data that they are monetizing.  The next closest competitor?  20 million.  Keep fucking that chicken though.  

lots of people think Tesla is going to struggle to ever get SAE Level 4 (fully autonomous) due to their hardware. elon has said multiple times that they will hit level 4 in 2022 calendar year, including on an earnings call.

Quote

 

Tesla CEO Elon Musk said during the Q4 2021 Earnings Call that he is confident the company’s Full Self-Driving suite will be finished by 2022.

Musk was extremely confident in his prediction, stating he will be “shocked” if Tesla does not complete FSD by the end of the year.

 

also huge difference in the driver miles data that tesla is collecting from users vs the actually (fully) automated driving miles collected from Waymo/Cruise/Pony.ai, etc - it's apples vs oranges.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Chilly Water said:

Seems like you can get a lot cheaper handjob for less than the price of a horse.
 

Not really buying this story. it’s great tabloid noise 

 

If you offer up $44 billion for a plaything for yourself, what's the cost of a horse for a handy (or getting to tap that ass)?

 

 

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12 minutes ago, NoName said:

lots of people think Tesla is going to struggle to ever get SAE Level 4 (fully autonomous) due to their hardware. elon has said multiple times that they will hit level 4 in 2022 calendar year, including on an earnings call.

also huge difference in the driver miles data that tesla is collecting from users vs the actually (fully) automated driving miles collected from Waymo/Cruise/Pony.ai, etc - it's apples vs oranges.

 

 

Maybe?  Possibly?  Who knows?  The point still stands that it's evident that their grand vision is not as an "automaker", but to be a first mover in the autonomous space.

To the second point - of course.  It was a juxtaposition between when Tesla is doing vs. the larger, legacy automakers.   

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2 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

I might be putting words in people's mouths, but it seems everyone thinks Tesla is "just" an automotive company.  They're a data collection and analytics company that also happens to make cars.  They're building a massive neural network that I suspect the other automakers don't even understand or care about. 

This is of course about autonomous vehicles, a market many predict could be in the trillions.  

 

 

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6 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

The ones that use them will not. The bros probably will. 

By use, I'm guessing you don't mean work, unless it is urban commuting..

 

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5 minutes ago, slorch said:

By use, I'm guessing you don't mean work, unless it is urban commuting..

 

I mean lugging around 14 rounds on the back of a 29+5.  They’ll be great around town and short distance work. There’s still a need tow shit long distances. I did from Houston to DC a month or so ago.  Those people will not be considering them. 

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13 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Business Insider reached out to Musk yesterday morning for comment on the allegations and within a few hours he did the whole “I’m switching parties expect a lot of political attacks!” thing.

This is just getting embarrassing.

he was talking publicly about switching parties at the All In Summit in Miami earlier this week a few days before business insider broke that.  

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5 hours ago, NoName said:

lots of people think Tesla is going to struggle to ever get SAE Level 4 (fully autonomous) due to their hardware. elon has said multiple times that they will hit level 4 in 2022 calendar year, including on an earnings call.

https://electrek.co/2015/12/21/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-drops-prediction-full-autonomous-driving-from-3-years-to-2/

Thats one of Elon's greatest hits. Harder to get people to fork over the $10K if you tell them you have no idea when the product they are paying for will actually work. Musk does add the disclaimer that regulations allowing the use of autonomous driving may take longer, but to my knowledge Tesla still aint there

https://futurism.com/experts-alarmed-tesla-fsd

And then you have liability issue. If the auto manufacturer says that their car is Level 4 or Level 5 and then there is a fuckup and it plows into a schoolbus pushing it into a pack of nuns, who pays that bill? The insurance company or Tesla because the product was defective? I have no doubt at some point we will get there, but liability issues will be interesting. What Elon brags about and what Tesla lawyers will sign off on are two very different things. 

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45 minutes ago, Blotto said:

https://electrek.co/2015/12/21/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-drops-prediction-full-autonomous-driving-from-3-years-to-2/

Thats one of Elon's greatest hits. Harder to get people to fork over the $10K if you tell them you have no idea when the product they are paying for will actually work. Musk does add the disclaimer that regulations allowing the use of autonomous driving may take longer, but to my knowledge Tesla still aint there

https://futurism.com/experts-alarmed-tesla-fsd

And then you have liability issue. If the auto manufacturer says that their car is Level 4 or Level 5 and then there is a fuckup and it plows into a schoolbus pushing it into a pack of nuns, who pays that bill? The insurance company or Tesla because the product was defective? I have no doubt at some point we will get there, but liability issues will be interesting. What Elon brags about and what Tesla lawyers will sign off on are two very different things. 

if you want a laugh, this is good: https://techcrunch.com/2021/05/07/tesla-refutes-elon-musks-timeline-on-full-self-driving/ - from May 2021
 

Quote

 

Tesla vehicles are far from reaching that level of autonomy, a fact confirmed by statements made by the company’s director of Autopilot software CJ Moore to California regulators, the memo shows.

“Elon’s tweet does not match engineering reality per CJ,” according to the memo summarizing the conversation between regulators with the California Department of Motor Vehicles’ autonomous vehicles branch and four Tesla employees, including Moore.

The memo, which was written by California DMV’s Miguel Acosta, states that Moore described Autopilot — and the new features being tested — as a Level 2 system. That description matters in the world of automated driving.

 

 

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At this point, I'm leaning hard to the fraud side of the spectrum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Probably all related to this:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/20/business/tesla-stock-elon-musk.html

 

Quote

nvestors are reassessing the premise that justified Tesla’s astronomical stock price and made its founder, Elon Musk, the richest person in the world.

Tesla’s $1 trillion valuation made sense only if investors believed the electric car company was on a path to dominate the auto industry the way Apple rules smartphones or Amazon commands online retailing.

 

Quote

But Tesla’s shares have declined more than 40 percent since April 4 — a much steeper fall than the broad market, vaporizing more than $400 billion in stock market value. And the tumble has called attention to the risks that the company faces. These include increasing competition, a dearth of new products, lawsuits accusing the company of racial discrimination and significant production problems at Tesla’s factory in Shanghai, which it uses to supply Asia and Europe.

 

 

Spoiler

Mr. Musk has not helped the stock price by turning his bid to buy Twitter into a financial soap opera. His antics have reinforced the perception that Tesla lacks an independent board of directors that could stop him from doing things that might damage the company’s business and brand.

“From a corporate good governance perspective Tesla has a lot of red flags,” said Andrew Poreda, a senior analyst who specializes in socially responsible investing at Sage Advisory Services, an investment firm in Austin, Texas. “There are almost no checks and balances.”

Even longtime Tesla optimists are having doubts. Daniel Ives, an analyst at Wedbush Securities, has been one of the most steadfast believers in Tesla on Wall Street. But on Thursday, Wedbush lowered its target price for Tesla — the firm’s estimate of the shares’ fair market value based on future earnings — to $1,000 from $1,400. Mr. Ives cited Tesla’s problems in China, where lockdowns have throttled the supply of crucial parts and materials and demand for cars.

“There’s a new reality for Tesla in China, and the market is reassessing the risks,” Mr. Ives said.

Production problems in China have undercut one of the rationales for making Tesla the world’s most valuable car company. Tesla vehicles have been a hit with Chinese buyers, fueling hopes of supercharged growth in the world’s largest car market. Tesla’s market share in China topped 2.5 percent in the first quarter of 2022, closing in on luxury carmakers Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Audi.

But supply chain headaches in China are compounded by flagging consumer demand, said Michael Dunne, chief executive of ZoZoGo, which advises companies on the electric car market.

Chinese consumers “are edgy, they’re worried about the future,” Mr. Dunne said. “It’s a double whammy that Tesla confronts in China.”

Tesla shares are reacting in part to the same forces that are roiling stock markets around the world: war in Ukraine, rising interest rates, the threat of recession, supply chain chaos and surging inflation. But Tesla shares have fallen much more than other Silicon Valley giants like Apple or Alphabet, the company that owns Google.

Tesla accounted for three-quarters of the electric cars sold in the United States last year. The company is several years ahead of competitors in battery technology and software. But two models — the Model 3 sedan and Model Y sport utility vehicle — accounted for 95 percent of Tesla’s sales. Its next consumer vehicle, a pickup truck, has been delayed many times and is not expected until next year at the earliest.

It’s an axiom in the car industry that new models fuel sales. And competition from the likes of Hyundai, Ford and Volkswagen is growing, offering drivers many more choices.

Jesse Toprak, an auto industry veteran who is chief analyst at Autonomy, a company that offers electric cars by subscription, said that Tesla’s market share will fall below 40 percent by the end of 2023, though its sales will continue to grow as the overall market expands.

“They will have a smaller share of a larger pot,” Mr. Toprak said. “But their near-monopoly on E.V. sales in the U.S. will slowly diminish.”

Tesla already faces tough competition in Europe, where electric vehicles account for 13 percent of new car sales. That foreshadows what could happen in the United States, where sales of battery-powered cars are just beginning to take off. Volkswagen, which has invested heavily in electric vehicles, sold 56,000 battery-powered cars in Western Europe during the first three months of the year, just behind Tesla, which sold 58,000, according to figures compiled by Schmidt Automotive Research in Berlin.

Tesla’s ability to serve the European market will improve as a new factory near Berlin ramps up production. In the United States and elsewhere, the company has benefited from fanatically loyal buyers who regard Mr. Musk as a visionary and are willing to wait months or years for the company’s cars.

But as electric cars gain popularity because of skyrocketing gasoline prices, the next wave of customers may not be as tolerant or as enamored of Mr. Musk. “The next generation of buyers will be average Joes who are buying E.V.s because it makes financial sense to them,” Mr. Toprak said. “The brand image of Tesla will be less helpful.”

Tesla’s image is under pressure in ways that could hurt the automaker among the environmentally conscious, politically liberal customers who have long been its biggest customer base. The California Department of Fair Employment and Housing is suing Tesla, accusing it of allowing racial discrimination and harassment to flourish at its factory in Fremont, Calif., near San Francisco. Tesla is contesting the lawsuit.

In another blow, the S&P 500 ESG Index, a listing of companies that meet certain environmental, social and governance standards, ejected Tesla last month. S&P said it was disturbed by claims of racial discrimination and poor working conditions at the company’s Fremont factory.

Mr. Musk responded to S&P’s decision by writing on Twitter that the movement to apply environmental, social and governance standards to corporations a “scam” that “has been weaponized by phony social justice warriors.”

Mr. Musk followed that Twitter post by declaring that he was switching his allegiance from the Democratic Party, which he said had “become the party of division & hate,” and would now vote for Republicans. Politically charged statements like those are certain to alienate some car buyers.

“The more political he becomes, the more that might start to influence buyers,” said Carla Bailo, chief executive of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, Mich.

Mr. Musk and Tesla did not respond to requests for comment.

Management turnover is another risk. Mr. Musk is a notoriously demanding boss who has warned Twitter employees that “work ethic expectations would be extreme” if he takes over the social media platform.

The churn at Tesla is obvious. Many of its former senior managers are prominent in the start-up scene in the San Francisco Bay Area. Examples include Celina Mikolajczak, head of manufacturing at fledgling battery maker QuantumScape, who previously helped develop batteries at Tesla, and Gene Berdichevsky, another former Tesla battery developer who is chief executive of Sila Nanotechnologies. Sila announced this week that it would supply materials for advanced batteries to Mercedes-Benz.

Lucid, maker of the only electric model to beat Tesla in the Environmental Protection Agency’s tests of how far an electric car can go on a full charge, was founded by Peter Rawlinson, a former top Tesla engineer until he fell out with Mr. Musk. Lucid’s headquarters is in Newark, Calif., a short drive from Tesla’s Fremont factory.

Mr. Musk’s admirers say he has helped promote emission-free vehicles by seeding the industry with talent. But critics see a risk that Tesla will never develop a stable echelon of experienced managers who can run the company if anything ever happens to Mr. Musk.

“You can’t treat your workers poorly in a tight labor market like we have,” said Mr. Poreda of Sage Advisory. “One bright man can’t make his vision into reality without a lot of really smart people.”

Amid this litany of problems and risks, Mr. Musk has been spending time on acquiring Twitter, though he lately seems to be having second thoughts about the deal. The foray into social media has some investors wondering why the boss is spending so much time writing missives on Twitter while the world burns.

“There is just a feeling,” said Mr. Ives of Wedbush, “that the pilot on the plane is watching some Netflix show while you’re going through a massive thunderstorm.”

 

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10 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

I bet Zuckerberg is loving this.  There's no telling what kind of evil shit he's cooking up while Rocketman fuccboi has everyone distracted.

There are probably a number of people watching this thinking.

crazy-insane.gif

 

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18 minutes ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

What's behind the weird obsession with Musk? I can't wrap my head around how so many alleged adults can be so obsessed with him.

He revels in sticking it to convention and trolling people he doesn't like. I certainly can think of a subset of folks who get a kick out of that. 

In some cases, musk's style leads to breakthroughs in engineering and design by going back to basics and first principles like his success with SpaceX. In other cases he waaaaaay overextends himself, amped up on his own false bravado. His move to get Twitter is the latter in my opinion. 

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7 minutes ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

 

CCFA625E-3E3D-4C48-B84C-10069EEDFE9C.jpeg

 

1 hour ago, Francisco 2.0 said:
Quote

But Tesla’s shares have declined more than 40 percent since April 4 — a much steeper fall than the broad market, vaporizing more than $400 billion in stock market value. And the tumble has called attention to the risks that the company faces. These include increasing competition, a dearth of new products, lawsuits accusing the company of racial discrimination and significant production problems at Tesla’s factory in Shanghai, which it uses to supply Asia and Europe.

 

Duhhhhh.

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