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MrBig

Toddler Falls Out of Cruise Ship Window

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3 minutes ago, Deej said:

Did nobody on the ship ask Jackie Smith for his autograph?

 

 

Jackie Smith drop Super Bowl XIII.jpg

Th- that's just uncalled for right there.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Listen everybody.  No more vacations unless they're the ones Burnt eyes likes Okay ??  Wow brah, didn't know you were the vacation Tsar.  

We went on lots of family vacations with the FIL, and our toddler kids. They were always great. I'll be doing those same kinds of vacations with our daughter, and son one day soon.

Well, I guess I'll have to own a couple of realities in my position.

Prior, if it make someone else happy, then do whatever the fuck you like as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. I'm very liberal in that regard. So my opinion on the topic really doesn't make a shit.

Next, I clearly have a stronger bias against cruises than I was even admitting. That bias went as far as to create some cognitive dissonance.

Next I don't have children, so there is a vacuum my thought process when it comes to relating to the topic.

That said, my supposition was that at 18 months a top priority would be given to some alone time AWAY from the child and family to best serve the relationship. Further it would allow mom and dad to actually relax without the burden of a child present.

Given that clearly the Grandpa could get the time off, my mind leans toward the assumption that he'd be willing to take care of the child at home. Thereby providing the parents with that alone time.

Finally, cruises are pretty close to what I would think of as hell. So are all inclusive resorts and the like.

Given all those things, it makes no sense to me, why the fuck you would take the child and grand father on the cruise. 

But I don't know what I don't know.

Thus, feel free to disregard my posts which it appears you have already done.

However, I must finally note, my idea sure as fuck would have ended in a much happier family than what they are currently. Of course, hind sight is perfect.

Edited by BurntEyes

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1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Th- that's just uncalled for right there.

Yeah.. that bullshit is close to penalty box time.

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Leaving the tyke alone with GPa was prolly going to result in a tragedy whether on the high seas or back at home. "Papa, can you watch the little one get their bath while I go to the store?". Blub, blub, blub...

Womp womp.

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Um.. you have a 18 month old child.
Rather than have grandpa, who we know at least likes to hold the child near windows, baby sit for the cruise you have him and the child join.
It's fucking illogical as fuck. Maybe a bit of alone time for husband and wife to relax? Or maybe having an 18 month old around is relaxing and gets your sexy time juices flowing.

“Honey, did you hear a thud”?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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They calmed grandpa down and offered him a snack to help him feel better:
GUEST_f3de86e0-09ba-44e6-96ae-4157508c66
 

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Posted (edited)

She may have been too heavy for Pawpaw's technique:

Baby3.jpg?w=620

 

Just a reminder of how FOS the family and their sleazebag lawyer are, there's zero chance he didn't know that window was open:

EAGPcPCWkAEnrZH.jpgGrandfather-Didnt-Drop-Toddler-From-Crui

Edited by clapclapclap
The Flinging Irish

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If those are pics of the deck, grandpa looks like the biggest idiot in the world.  I feel horrible for the family but the cruise line doesn't owe them shit. 

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1 hour ago, clapclapclap said:

Just a reminder of how FOS the family and their sleazebag lawyer are, there's zero chance he didn't know that window was open:

 

As you get older you'll start to realize just how easy it is for accidents to happen.  

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1 hour ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

As you get older you'll start to realize just how easy it is for accidents to happen.  

Well yeah, but the grandfather is still full of shit.

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2 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

As you get older you'll start to realize just how easy it is for accidents to happen.  

As I get older I realize how often it seems that accidents happen to really stupid people. 

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6 minutes ago, MrBig said:

State of Indiana Case Records for Gramps

5 Seat Belt Violations & 2 Excessive Speeding Violations since 1996. 

Not exactly a model of safety here. Shocked there were no DUIs or Vehicular Manslaughters.

He's from the no seat belt generation. The speeding ?   I used to get one every couple years.

 Those don't that have much to do with how careful you are with your kids IMO.  Even today when we go to the beach, and our grown kids go in for a swim I watch them every second just like I did when they were actually little kids.  

Grandpa fucked up royally though. I bet he'd had a bon voyage drink our two.

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52 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

He's from the no seat belt generation. The speeding ?   I used to get one every couple years.

 Those don't that have much to do with how careful you are with your kids IMO.  Even today when we go to the beach, and our grown kids go in for a swim I watch them every second just like I did when they were actually little kids.  

Grandpa fucked up royally though. I bet he'd had a bon voyage drink our two.

My grandfather was also from the “no seatbelt” generation and was very dismissive about wearing them.

I know it’s like comparing apples to oranges, but this hits close to home for me because I’ve experienced an accident that was extremely preventable. 

When I was six, we were in a car accident because my grandfather was speeding, and my sister was killed after she was ejected from the window because she wasn’t wearing a seatbelt.

These two incidents are completely unrelated, but it still makes me so angry that an adult can be so stupid and careless when it comes to the safety of children. 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, MrBig said:

My grandfather was also from the “no seatbelt” generation and was very dismissive about wearing them.

I know it’s like comparing apples to oranges, but this hits close to home for me because I’ve experienced an accident that was extremely preventable. 

When I was six, we were in a car accident because my grandfather was speeding, and my sister was killed after she was ejected from the window because she wasn’t wearing a seatbelt.

These two incidents are completely unrelated, but it still makes me so angry that an adult can be so stupid and careless when it comes to the safety of children. 

You're preaching to the choir.  My younger brother was in Iowa for a wrestling camp back in HS. His buds who I knew pretty well were out partying one night, and had a very bad wreck.

2 of his buds were ejected from the car, and both died that night. The guys with seat belts on had injuries, but all lived, and stayed inside the car.  My brother would have been in that car more than likely, and not wearing a seat belt.

He, and I have both worn seatbelts since that day, and that includes cabs, Ubers, vans on the way to vacation spots from airports, any vehicle with a seat belt, and I'm wearing it.

Edited by Onboard 2.0

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25 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

You're preaching to the choir.  My younger brother was in Iowa for a wrestling camp back in HS. His buds who I knew pretty well were out partying one night, and had a very bad wreck.

2 of his buds were ejected from the car, and both died that night. The guys with seat belts on had injuries, but all lived, and stayed inside the car.  My brother would have been in that car more than likely, and not wearing a seat belt.

He, and I have both worn seatbelts since that day, and that includes cabs, Ubers, vans on the way to vacation spots from airports, any vehicle with a seat belt, and I'm wearing it.

Same here. I was so traumatized by the accident, I wear my seatbelt even when I’m just moving my car out of the driveway to park in front of my house.

My personal experience is surely clouding my judgement on this cruise ship accident, but everything about this incident screams bullshit to me.

And this was before I saw the pictures of the deck and before they hired that cruise ship chasing lawyer. Babies just don’t fall out of windows that aren’t open on the ground. This isn’t an Eric Clapton type of freak accident.

I still think Royal Caribbean is going to pay this family a shitload of money no matter what. “I thought there was glass” is the same bullshit as saying “I didn’t mean to drive drunk and kill those people.” You still did it out of negligence you stupid fucking asshole.

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We used to sit on top of the toolbox in the back of the truck while grandpa barreled down the highway at 55. Paw paws don’t give a fuck.

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I have a lot more than 2 speeding tickets, but that doesn’t mean I threw a kid out of a window
That we know of

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7 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

As you get older you'll start to realize just how easy it is for accidents to happen.  

True but that doesn't make it the cruise line's fault.  I can see a jury awarding the family money however.  Cruise line can pony up some cash to help a distraught grandpa pretend killing his granddaughter was the fault of a big, negligent money grubbing corporation.

Looking at those pictures, I'm gonna guess the family is alleging that there is no way for a competent person standing in front of one of those open windows to know if there is glass there or not?  It seems implausible that you wouldn't know.  From the tint of the glass to the wind blasting you in the face, any person with a functioning brain knows the window is open.  

I think it really comes down to grandpa being negligent.  He got too close to give baby a nice view and he lost his grip.  

It's tragic and my heart goes out to the little one and her family, but trying to cast blame on someone else and collect money is pretty shitty.

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Lhorn said:

True but that doesn't make it the cruise line's fault.  I can see a jury awarding the family money however.  Cruise line can pony up some cash to help a distraught grandpa pretend killing his granddaughter was the fault of a big, negligent money grubbing corporation.

Looking at those pictures, I'm gonna guess the family is alleging that there is no way for a competent person standing in front of one of those open windows to know if there is glass there or not?  It seems implausible that you wouldn't know.  From the tint of the glass to the wind blasting you in the face, any person with a functioning brain knows the window is open.  

I think it really comes down to grandpa being negligent.  He got too close to give baby a nice view and he lost his grip.  

It's tragic and my heart goes out to the little one and her family, but trying to cast blame on someone else and collect money is pretty shitty.

 

 

All of this is pretty spot on. What makes me think it’s a money grab is that the lawyer keeps saying it was in a children’s play area.

I understand there are wading pools for the kids to splash around closer to the center of the ship, but they are framing this like there is a kiddie play area right up against the glass, making the cruise line responsible. Look at the photos. It’s not like that. The windows are also tinted.

And they kept saying the grandfather had to be sedated after the accident. So even if he wasn’t a drinker, he could have been on something prior. But because he was sedated, anything that showed up on blood tests would be attributed to the sedative administered post-accident.

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On July 15, 2019 at 6:58 PM, MrBig said:

Extended family shouldn’t extend babies out of a window. 

Just a little chlorine in the gene pool. 

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Sad story. I don’t see how a reasonable person would think the window was closed or that it was safe to put a child up there. 

Whats sad is that the company lawyers are probably now thinking of sealing windows to prevent future risk. Go on a cruise and watch everything thru glass.

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12 hours ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

I have a lot more than 2 speeding tickets, but that doesn’t mean I threw a kid out of a window

But was it "excessive" speeding?

Don't know what qualifies as excessive, but it's probably more than just 6 over in a 55 zone. 

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I grew up in the era of no seatbelts. Moved back to Texas in '93 and got hit shortly after that with the click-it-or-ticket campaign. I became a convert and it's become second nature now. No excuse for baby dangling.

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It's impossible to child-proof a ship especially if the adult in charge is incapable of determining if a shaded window is open or closed. My guess is that the family has to convince themselves that gramps isn't at fault or they rip the family apart. The family is most likely split apart anyway.

I don't believe I could ever face a parent if I accidentally killed their child. I would assume they wouldn't want to see me either.

 

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I’ve read multiple accounts of the family claiming the little girl loved banging on the glass at hockey games, and there’s even a photo of her doing that. I suspect Gramps held her up to the window to get a good look, probably perpendicular to the floor and not outside the imaginary plane, and the child lunged at the window like she often did at the hockey games. But there was nothing to stop her, and he couldn’t hold on.

I’m sympathetic to the family and grandfather, but as I try to put myself in his shoes, I have to consider the 11 stories up element... geez, that’s awfully risky. And if the windows on Level 11 have that blue tint, it’s going to be a tough sell. 

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Like I keep saying, Americans love to "work backward" from a horrible and tragic incident to assess blame.

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7 minutes ago, Vito Andolini said:

I’ve read multiple accounts of the family claiming the little girl loved banging on the glass at hockey games, and there’s even a photo of her doing that. I suspect Gramps held her up to the window to get a good look, probably perpendicular to the floor and not outside the imaginary plane, and the child lunged at the window like she often did at the hockey games. But there was nothing to stop her, and he couldn’t hold on.

I’m sympathetic to the family and grandfather, but as I try to put myself in his shoes, I have to consider the 11 stories up element... geez, that’s awfully risky. And if the windows on Level 11 have that blue tint, it’s going to be a tough sell. 

That sounds very plausible.  Friggin' hate reading about shit like this. And like Eddie said, you can't make a ship childproof. By their very nature they're potentially dangerous places.  Trying to hold the cruise line responsible is beyond BS, they'll get money though if it's a jury trial.

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6 minutes ago, TrashMaster G said:

Was gramps too "sedated" to feel the breeze coming in through the window?

It's been speculated.  He could have been standing in front of the window, even back a bit, and the kid just lunged at the glass.

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The fact they are suing the cruise makes them pieces of shit, plus the fact they did it only a few days later. Would think you’d at least take some time before being a dick

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meh, its America. This will settle out. And while I think the grandad was at fault, company/insurance will pay something to make it go away.

They are dicks for suing, but on the flipside, better to have no kid and a few million in your pocket than no kid and nothing in your pocket. That being said, a large amount of that payout should go to charity or to increase awareness of how dangerous cruise ships can be.

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I’m just not sure how one would act in one of the worst nightmare scenarios to actually play out.

Feel bad for everyone involved.

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They are dicks for suing, but on the flipside, better to have no kid and a few million in your pocket than no kid and nothing in your pocket.

I have a feeling in their case it’s more like better to have a few million in your pocket than a kid

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6 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:


I have a feeling in their case it’s more like better to have a few million in your pocket than a kid

Yeah you can always make another kid. Making a cool $3m is tougher to do.

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Ya know if these had been Irish Travelers I could see this being some sick scam but I think they were mid-Western Lutherans. You know, the salt of the earth types. Morons.

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5 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

It's impossible to child-proof a ship especially if the adult in charge is incapable of determining if a shaded window is open or closed. My guess is that the family has to convince themselves that gramps isn't at fault or they rip the family apart. The family is most likely split apart anyway.

I agree with this completely.  I think convincing themselves that the cruise company is at fault might be how they are dealing with the guilt.  If it's the company's fault then grandpa doesn't have to feel as bad and having a jury side with them is "proof" of the company's guilt.  I also think there are lawyers in their ears telling them that it's their obligation to right this wrong - for the safety of humanity, they have to do this or else others will die, despite the fact that literally millions have had access to those windows or similar windows over the years and most likely zero have accidentally fallen to their death from them.  "Don't let the baby's death be in vain, sue the company to save others from similar tragedies."  It's what the family wants to hear - "it's not your fault."  That's got to be an easier way to deal with this versus the truth - you accidentally killed a baby.

I'm sure the money doesn't hurt, but they've convinced themselves that hitting the cruise line in the pocket book is the only way they'll learn.  They could then donate the money, but of course they won't be doing that. 

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6 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Grandpa charged with negligent homicide:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/28/us/toddler-cruise-ship-death-grandfather-charged/index.html

My cynical side wonders if the family immediately discussing lawsuits against the cruise line helped contribute to this outcome.

Does make one wonder. On the one hand the cruise lines are a deep pockets easy target. On the other they provide a good bit of economic production.

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Was he drunk?  I don't know if I agree with charging him, but I also don't agree with the cruise line being on the hook.  I guess if a toddler is dead someone has to be at fault?  

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There doesn't seem to be a clear consensus on when to charge an adult when a child dies. We seem to universally want to execute someone for leaving a child in a hot car but let a kid fall from a window or run into a parking lot, and we want to let the parent off since they're grieving. Personally when I think someone is negligent based on some level of reason, their grief should have zero impact on the decision. They can grieve in prison just as much as at home.

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I’m guessing the investigation has something, otherwise the charge would be tough to convict. 

I wonder what the chances are that the lawsuit gets dropped right before the charges do, or before a plea deal?

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Good for the cruiseline. I don't care if the guy goes to prison, but I get tired of BS suits that many people don't think are BS. Finding him guilty of negligence should absolve the cruiseliner. At the very least it will give pause to any attorney taking the case.

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