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Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away


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I know others were talking about Freshmen starting at universities ( @Bama Chick). I just got this from George Washington. Last week it was come on down and live here. I think we are going to see more of this. 

To the George Washington University Community:

Throughout this pandemic, we have been grateful for your flexibility, patience, and resilience, as together we have navigated the uncertainty and change of these challenging times while supporting our foremost priority—our community’s health and safety.

Many in our community have worked tirelessly to prepare plans for the fall, and we have been evaluating numerous contingencies as the pandemic has evolved this summer.  Most recently, we have been reviewing these plans in the context of some very important considerations: the latest data on the resurgence of COVID-19 cases in many areas of the country, guidance from our public health experts, and impact on our residential experience.  We have also listened to the ongoing feedback from the GW community, including a sentiment of growing unease among our faculty about in-person instruction and among our students about living on campus.

Based on these considerations, we have made the difficult decision to hold all undergraduate courses online for the fall semester, with limited exceptions.  We will provide housing on campus only for a limited number of students who have extenuating personal or academic circumstances.  Residential students will attend courses online and will be expected to comply with public health and safety measures including social distancing, mask wearing and regular testing for COVID-19.  Additionally, most graduate programs will be conducted online, with certain programs holding discipline-specific in-person classes.

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Sinclair stations are completely dropping that segment on whether Fauci created covid.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/27/media/sinclair-fauci-conspiracy/index.html

Quote

The Sinclair Broadcast Group (SBGI) said Monday it will not move forward with airing a segment featuring a conspiracy theory that suggested Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease expert, was responsible for the creation of the coronavirus.

Over the weekend, Sinclair announced it would postpone and "rework" the segment featuring discredited "Plandemic" researcher Judy Mikovits which was set to air during the program "America This Week" hosted by Eric Bolling.

But on Monday, the company pulled the plug altogether.

"Upon further review, we have decided not to air the interview with Dr. Mikovits," a spokesperson for Sinclair told CNN Business in a statement. "Although the segment did include an expert to dispute Dr. Mikovits, given the nature of the theories she presented we believe it is not appropriate to air the interview."

Aunt Edna isn't going to be seeing this shit on her local CBS, NBC, or ABC station, so win?

Quote

On Monday afternoon, when asked for comment on Sinclair's decision, Larry Klayman, an attorney for Mikovits, responded in an email by reiterating legal threats against CNN for its reporting. Previously, Klayman said he stood by what his client said on Bolling's show. CNN stands by its reporting. 

In the segment that the company had initially planned to air, Mikovits told Bolling that Fauci had over the past decade "manufactured" and shipped coronaviruses to Wuhan, China, which became the original epicenter of the current outbreak. Bolling noted that this was a "hefty claim," but did not meaningfully challenge Mikovits and allowed her to continue making her case.

Note: As mentioned before, Bolling lost a high-profile job for sending unsolicited dick pics.  So letting somebody go on with their claim that Fauci was responsible for covid is completely in keeping with such a professional talking head.

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1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Looks like Spain and Iran having a new wave of cases. 

Have they been gradually reopening as well? I'm curious to get additional data points on factors that increase COVID transmission on a national level, as opposed to local measures like shutdowns and mask orders 

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I haven't really paid attention to much outside of where I live. Are these countries relaxing restrictions, or is it more of just quarantine fatigue and people being less cautious?

We're going to sine wave our way until we find a vaccine. Errbody.

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Worth noting that France's spike is 1,000 new cases in a day. Texas has been sitting well above 5,000 new cases a day for damn near the last month. Nevermind that France has twice as many people as TX with roughly the same geographic size. 

Seems less like we ever had a second wave, and have just been plateaued after our first peak

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2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I haven't really paid attention to much outside of where I live. Are these countries relaxing restrictions, or is it more of just quarantine fatigue and people being less cautious?

We're going to sine wave our way until we find a vaccine. Errbody.

The article  mentioned the idea of the Catalonia region (around Barcelona, Spain) re-shuttering nightclubs, so there at least, I'd say it's likely a result of reopening the indoor spaces where people really can't realistically wear masks.  Same thing that happened here, basically.

We've speculated extensively on this thread that as soon as any area significantly reopens inside spaces at significant capacity, and especially bars, they're going to see an increase in infections.  It's just not going to go away.

 

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/07/27/moderna-nih-launch-30000-person-trial-coronavirus-vaccine/

Two coronavirus vaccines begin the last phase of testing: 30,000-person trials
The vaccines are being developed by Pfizer and biotechnology company Moderna in collaboration with the National Institutes of Health

....

The vaccination marks a much-anticipated milestone: the official launch of the first in a series of large U.S. clinical trials that will each test experimental vaccines in 30,000 participants, half receiving the shot and half receiving a placebo. Pharmaceutical giant Pfizer also announced it was initiating a 30,000-person vaccine trial, at 120 sites globally.

 

They're looking for volunteers in the following areas:

image.png.f652214e2a8e66e2ecb4fecd089465d3.png

 

Outside of those areas can go here: https://www.coronaviruspreventionnetwork.org/

image.thumb.png.aeeb512b99e8137587505c10b730556c.png

Edited by MillerEP
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17 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Well their "surge" numbers are less than a fifth of our "let's reopen schools!" numbers, so they still have quite a bit of catching up before we're all in it together

Yeah, let’s tap the brakes on the reductionist “they got more cases = they’re in the same boat we are after all.” This is from the Times briefing today:

image.png.ba3afcaa2bee579450e35959eadb845f.png

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37 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:


Their graph looks like any graph of any state and country

It's crazy that early on in this thread you were actually using critical thought and trying to discuss things rationally with the rest of us.

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1 hour ago, GopherRock said:

Anyone else seeing this "America's Frontline Doctors" shit? The fact that it was Breitbart that organized it immediately disqualifies it.

Putting aside the source of the information (or at least the vehicle), I watched the first talk by the woman who is stated to be an ER doc in California. She recited results from a J of Virology paper which shows that chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronovirus, with the claim that as it was a 2005 publication that the 'cure' has been known for some time and it's all a coverup. 

I read the paper. It's an in vitro study using immortalized neonatal monkey kidney cells with chloroquine - it's all on cells. The maximum inhibition of the virus achieved was with an in vitro concentration which bears little relevance to clinically relevant exposures in people actually taking the drug. Touting this as a proof of a cure shows such a meager understanding of science and medicine, it brings forth the adage 'do you know what they call the person who graduated last in medical school?'. Let's just say we cure cancer in a dish all the time - patients are a bit harder.

Surprisingly, no zinc was included in the assay, which based on the current diatribe also is stated as being crucial. I guess when you effectively paste on chloroquine at supra-physiological levels you don't need it?

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This doesn't seem like just the flu:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2768915

Quote

The discoveries highlighted in this issue of JAMA Cardiology by Puntmann and colleagues5 are also informative. In 100 recovering patients included in the study, 67% of whom recovered at home, evaluated a mean of 71 days after confirmed COVID-19 diagnosis, 78% had demonstrable cardiac involvement via cardiac magnetic resonance imaging, 76% had detectable high-sensitivity troponin, and 60% had evidence of active myocardial inflammation by abnormal native T1 and T2. Compared with controls including those with a similar profile of preexisting conditions, left ventricular ejection fraction was lower and volumes higher, as well as 32% manifesting late gadolinium enhancement and 22% with pericardial involvement. There are important residual questions about potential selection bias and generalizability and not all of the patients may have recovered, but the observations cannot be dismissed. Months after a COVID-19 diagnosis, the possibility exists of residual left ventricular dysfunction and ongoing inflammation, both of sufficient concern to represent a nidus for new-onset heart failure and other cardiovascular complications. Moreover, we cannot dismiss important other clinical pathophysiological observations, including clinical syndromes consistent with acute myocarditis, the cascade of immunologic responses, a prothrombotic milieu with microvascular clot formation, and/or myocardial injury due to supply-demand mismatch. When added to the postmortem pathological findings from Linder et al,4 we see the plot thickening and we are inclined to raise a new and very evident concern that cardiomyopathy and heart failure related to COVID-19 may potentially evolve as the natural history of this infection becomes clearer.

 

So we've got potential heart failure down the road as a symptom of Covid. If just a small percentage of the population ends up losing a few years off of their lives (or worse) due to this thing, you're talking hundreds of millions of human life-years lost. 

I'm 40 and in good shape. I'm not really that worried about catching the virus. My risk of dying from it is extremely low. But the thought of losing a few years in late life where I could be retired and playing with my grandkids really sucks. This type of stuff is why it's so dangerous and ignorant to run around saying "I'm not scared of a virus that has a 1 in 500 chance of killing me". We already know there are complications that exist long after you "beat" the virus. What we don't know is how many people they will kill.

 

Edited by BradInATX
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Yeah, but that'll only effect Belgians, Italians, and Spaniards.  Americans don't already have a history of heart disease propensity.  We're made in the shade.  Hoax! 

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So covid stimulus stuff/aid may not be coming out of Washington after all, for various reasons.

Shitload of people are about to start running out of money/failing to make payments/etc.

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You'd think they'd want to be propping up a lot of businesses/people, given that it feels like there's going to be a major surge in September/October.

Are there any positive outlooks for covid 2-3 months from now?

Edited by atomheartbevo
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So covid stimulus stuff/aid may not be coming out of Washington after all, for various reasons.
Shitload of people are about to start running out of money/failing to make payments/etc.
giphy.gif
You'd think they'd want to be propping up a lot of businesses/people, given that it feels like there's going to be a major surge in September/October.
Are there any positive outlooks for covid 2-3 months from now?

I gotta say.. if that $1200 we got in May still is keeping your head above water, you should be a financial advisor
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If you want to watch high school football, come to TN. The governor just signed an EO for football to start on time even though schools are delaying start. Fucking idiots. We laid out an extensive process in school for us to start and now it all gets bent over because football can start with limited rules. We also live in a red classified area with the hospital at max capacity even after expanding the ICU by a factor of 3x the number of beds.

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3 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

I gotta say.. if that $1200 we got in May still is keeping your head above water, you should be a financial advisor

It's the $600 a week a bunch were getting, plus the delayed rent/mortage/etc. that was keeping some afloat.  There's some kind of rent/mortgage/whatever protection that's evaporating.

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Technically this is simply the first wave still washing up onto the beach.  

Sadly all this disaster was easily predictable and the path was shown clearly.  First protect those that need the most protection via isolation for at risk citizens and the best protective gear for the front line healthcare workers.  We all needed masks, but had that been initially implemented we would have had huge shortages for front line healthcare workers.  So you choose ted the lesser of the two evils here.

The big problem is the exact same as it was in February and beyond, we simply do not have adequate testing.  Sadly we did not make this the single most important aspect beyond protection of front line workers.  Testing allows for tracing and isolation of potential carriers.  The fact we KNEW this strange and unusual virus can be transmitted by people NOT showing symptoms is highly unusual.  This wrinkle made testing paramount in evaluating and trying to make good decisions regarding allocation of precious resources.  The fact that is almost no contact tracing means we have no idea at all where the disease is producing new risks points geographically.  The fact that the testing we do have is either fast (least accurate) or slow (most accurate) leaves us in the same spot were were months ago.

Tests that take days to return are basically useless, if the goal of the testing to help stop the spread of the disease.  It's sad that we are basically in the same spot we were in march when the edge of the first wave swept into the most densely populated areas of the country. The only difference is now the rural areas with less healthcare access are not exploding in cases.  We can't test, so we can't isolate.  If we do test we can't get the tests back to isolate. 

I would address the lack of mask use, and the lack of focus on how masks protect OTHERS not yourself.  But to do so would...well drift into an area verboten... The bottom line is the same, until we have widespread quick and accurate testing we are simply in the middle of the a first waves from what appears to be a protracted storm surge.

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22 hours ago, BradInATX said:

This doesn't seem like just the flu:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2768915

 

So we've got potential heart failure down the road as a symptom of Covid. If just a small percentage of the population ends up losing a few years off of their lives (or worse) due to this thing, you're talking hundreds of millions of human life-years lost. 

I'm 40 and in good shape. I'm not really that worried about catching the virus. My risk of dying from it is extremely low. But the thought of losing a few years in late life where I could be retired and playing with my grandkids really sucks. This type of stuff is why it's so dangerous and ignorant to run around saying "I'm not scared of a virus that has a 1 in 500 chance of killing me". We already know there are complications that exist long after you "beat" the virus. What we don't know is how many people they will kill.

 

As many of you know, I had it in mid-March/early-April. It was 2.5-3 weeks of feeling like a constant dull hangover. Never had a fever, never got a test. Had just about every other symptom and antibody test came back positive on 4/28. I'd been around two positive cases at a party on 3/7. It was a gay couple in their late 50's/early 60's. One of the guys nearly died, his partner had minor symptoms. The party host, a good friend of ours, got it but her reaction was milder than mine.

I've yet to go to a pulmonologist but I started walking regularly in the evenings with my wife as soon as I started feeling better. We started in early/mid April and walk 2+ miles at a pretty decent pace every evening. My body is still acclimating to this daily routine. There is a pretty substantial hill near the end and it still kicks my ass more often than not. I think I'm making some incremental gains but not at the rate I'd normally expect. This is just my experience. I'll be 48 in a few months.

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1 hour ago, horn4life said:

I would address the lack of mask use, and the lack of focus on how masks protect OTHERS not yourself.  But to do so would...well drift into an area verboten... The bottom line is the same, until we have widespread quick and accurate testing we are simply in the middle of the a first waves from what appears to be a protracted storm surge.

Yep -- I've been screaming about tests from the beginning. Sad that we're 5 months into this and it's not much better than it was.

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10 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Yep -- I've been screaming about tests from the beginning. Sad that we're 5 months into this and it's not much better than it was.

It’s worse now. I’ve sent three people home in the last month for exposures. All came back to work in 14 days without having test results back.

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3 minutes ago, Brew said:

It’s worse now. I’ve sent three people home in the last month for exposures. All came back to work in 14 days without having test results back.

So confusing.   My inlaws got tested last Friday morning, and had their results by Friday night.  They were both in their 80s so maybe they were prioritized? Also, they were both positive, so maybe that's why they found out so quickly?

 

 

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3 minutes ago, utee94 said:

So confusing.   My inlaws got tested last Friday morning, and had their results by Friday night.  They were both in their 80s so maybe they were prioritized? Also, they were both positive, so maybe that's why they found out so quickly?

 

 

Kind of depends where you are and the current work-load. My kids had to get tests before going to camp in Arkansas in late June. Took my son for a regular test and it took 7 days to get back. Daughter got back from camp and had to get a test as there was a minor outbreak (3-4 cases) and her results were back in a couple of days. Then you hear about situations that Brew is talking about. Other than PPE, testing and tracing should've been the single most important thing to focus on.

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18 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Kind of depends where you are and the current work-load. My kids had to get tests before going to camp in Arkansas in late June. Took my son for a regular test and it took 7 days to get back. Daughter got back from camp and had to get a test as there was a minor outbreak (3-4 cases) and her results were back in a couple of days. Then you hear about situations that Brew is talking about. Other than PPE, testing and tracing should've been the single most important thing to focus on.

Well my FIL got his from the VA, I assumed that would be the longest lead time of them all, but apparently not.

 

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Y’all are expressing my frustration...we shut the whole state/country down in April/May...wtf was leadership doing in that timeframe?  It’s like many pretended it was all over.  
 

Understanding hindsight, even my dumbass at the time was thinking we should be massively ramping up testing reservoir, manufacturing PPE at a national scale, developing a tiered and targeted system for reopening, contingency plans for when rates rise and systematically applying mask ordinances / business closures with strong PSAs.  
 

It feels like the people in control just decided to congratulate themselves on a job well done, figure it was overblown and move on.  Did we (Texas) even follow the opening phase at the prescribed timelines or did we blow through them?  Felt like the latter.  

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21 minutes ago, Homercles said:

wtf was leadership doing in that timeframe?  It’s like many pretended it was all over.  

The answer is probably best discussed on another board.

Anybody know if MedPageToday is reputable?

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87797

Quote

The latest viral video promoting COVID-19 misinformation features a newly formed group called America's Frontline Doctors. About 10 physicians, dressed in white coats with an embroidered America's Frontline Doctors logo, spoke for 45 minutes in front of the Supreme Court on Monday on a range of COVID-19 talking points, from hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) being curative to the mental health effects of lockdown outweighing the toll of the virus itself.

But none of them have practices that would place them on the actual front lines of the COVID-19 pandemic. Some don't currently practice at all.

Two of those appearing at the Monday event are ophthalmologists, one of whom is no longer licensed. MedPage Today could find no evidence that any of the speakers worked in hospitals with significant numbers of COVID-19 patients.

The group's website, which according to internet records was created on July 16, was de-activated on Tuesday (though past versions can be seen on web archives). Major social media platforms have sought to remove the video from their pages.

Late Tuesday, the group was delivering a second press conference as part of a two-day "summit."

U.S. Rep. Ralph Norman (R-S.C.) opened the first briefing by calling for schools to reopen. Austin Livingston, a spokesperson for Norman, said the congressman was invited to speak by the Tea Party Patriots -- which organized the event on the Supreme Court steps -- in order to "encourage state officials to open schools."

The Associated Press has previously reported that the Tea Party Patriots are a part of the Save Our Country Coalition, an alliance of conservative groups formed earlier this year to end regional lockdowns. That report also said the Trump campaign tried to recruit doctors to publicly support the president in his push to reopen economies.

Jenny Beth Martin, co-founder and national coordinator of the Tea Party Patriots, spoke as part of the America's Frontline Doctors press briefing. It is not clear what relationship, if any, exists between the two groups beyond the Washington event.

So who are some of these doctors involved in this group, and what involvement have they had in the pandemic?

Simone Gold, MD, JD

In her Twitter profile, Gold describes herself as a "doctor, lawyer, writer, mom," and links to her website, thegoldopinion.com, which promotes libertarian political viewpoints.

Gold earned a medical degree in 1989 from what is now the Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Science in Chicago. Her website bio identifies her as a board-certified emergency physician in the Los Angeles area.

Her California medical license includes her unverified claim that she is involved in patient care 30-39 hours per week and indicates a practice location in Hesperia, a bedroom community of about 100,000 at the edge of the Mojave Desert. Efforts to determine where specifically she may practice were unsuccessful.

She did not respond to a message seeking clarification and comment.

Gold has been a frequent contributor to conservative media, including Fox News, where she advocates for HCQ as a treatment for COVID-19 and fast economic reopening.

Stella Immanuel, MD

Immanuel is a pediatrician and minister in Houston, according to reports, with a clinic in a strip mall. During Monday's briefing, she claimed she has treated 350 COVID-19 patients with HCQ and none have died.

She said she is working on publishing her own data, then added that her data would not matter because right now people are dying when not treated with the drug.

"Everybody get on hydroxychloroquine!" she said, calling the large randomized trials that debunked the drug "fake science." She also declared that people did not need to wear masks.

Immanuel could not be reached for comment Tuesday. Her ministry's website was not operational Tuesday afternoon and a GoFundMe page that she called her "legal team" has been removed from the site. A cached version of the ministry site still stands.

Earlier during the pandemic, Immanuel made news for challenging Anthony Fauci, MD, and CNN correspondents to share urine samples to prove they were not secretly taking HCQ.

James Todaro, MD

Todaro, an ophthalmologist based in Michigan who is no longer practicing, graduated from Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons in 2014. His medical license, which was classified as "educational limited" in Michigan, expired in 2019.

According to his LinkedIn profile, Todaro has not practiced medicine since 2018. He co-founded an investment fund called Blockchain Capital.

Todaro authored a blog post in May that was among the first to expose flaws in the infamous Lancet study concluding that HCQ was associated with higher death rates in COVID-19 patients. Todaro's exposé, written on his website Medicine Uncensored, ultimately contributed to the study's retraction.

Previously, Todaro wrote a "white paper" in mid-March on chloroquine as prophylaxis and treatment for COVID-19, based on published information and linked in a Twitter post. Twitter has since marked it as "potentially spammy or unsafe."

Todaro did not respond to multiple requests for comment from MedPage Today.

Bob Hamilton, MD

Hamilton, a pediatrician and schools liaison with America's Frontline Doctors, has been practicing in Santa Monica, California -- home to his private practice, Pacific Ocean Pediatrics -- for more than 30 years. He has hospital privileges at Providence-St. John's Health Center and UCLA-Santa Monica Medical Center.

His practice is involved with Lighthouse Medical Missions, which organizes faith-based medical service trips in developing countries. Hamilton also founded a company that sells bath and body products for babies, and authored a 2018 resource guide called 7 Secrets of the Newborn.

The pediatrician became an internet sensation when he created "The Hamilton Hold," a four-step technique to quiet crying babies instantly. His technique attracted global media attention, and has been viewed more than 44 million times on YouTube.

Hamilton has advocated for getting children back in schools this fall. "Our kids are not really the ones who are driving the infection, it is the older individuals," Hamilton said at the Monday press conference. "We need to not act out of fear, we need to act out of science."

He did not respond to requests for comment from MedPage Today.

Dan Erickson, MD

Erickson is the co-owner of Accelerated Urgent Care in Bakersfield, California. He is a former emergency physician, according to reports, who was featured on national television in late April after he claimed data his center had collected showed that COVID was more widespread and less harmful than reported in medical journals.

The American College of Emergency Physicians and American Academy of Emergency Medicine issued a joint statement condemning Erickson's claims, calling them "reckless and untested musings" that are "inconsistent with current science and epidemiology regarding COVID-19."

Erickson could not be reached for comment Tuesday afternoon. He is affiliated with Adventist Health Bakersfield, according to a report. Adventist Bakersfield did not return a call Tuesday.

A physician's license record for Erickson could not be found in the Medical Board of California database.

Richard Urso, MD

Urso is an ophthalmologist at Houston Eye Associates in Bellaire, Texas, who has been touting HCQ for COVID-19. He told Fox News host Laura Ingraham earlier this month that he has been working with the drug for 30 years and has never had a patient with a heart issue.

He also said during that interview that HCQ was "safer than Tylenol, aspirin, Motrin."

Urso has one ding on his Texas medical license: In 2003, he paid a $1,500 fine to resolve allegations that he didn't provide a narrative of medical records to an attorney for a patient's personal injury lawsuit.

 

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They are getting a rapid test result while there. The doctors tell them to quarantine until the test that is sent off confirms the negative. That is the piece that is taking so long at least in our area.

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  • hayden_horn changed the title to Formerly DT: COVID-19 - Featuring Lots of Politics, now CR because political talk not going away


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