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Patrick Bateman

The Kevin Durant Thread -- One of our Own?

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I also had a problem with the narrative of Durant in OKC being that he could never win one there because they were so saddled with spare parts.  They were plenty good enough.  He just didn't win there.  They won 45 games after he left without getting anything in return.  It's not like Cleveland after Bron left.  


They were up 3-1 against the greatest regular season team of all time and choked.

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19 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Tonight says a lot about the Warriors without KD...... Frankly, if KD doesn't go to the Warriors, I"m not sure they win another title.  Very serious.  They can get exposed in the playoffs and Cleveland and Houston have shown the blueprints by attacking Curry and wearing him down.  I'm not saying they wouldn't have won another but it's looking less and less likely as we see guys like Livingston and Iggy become less effective with time and age and other team's understanding how to attack them.  Also, as other guys on dynasty's explain, those deep runs into the playoffs wear on you.  Now they would have Harrison Barnes and perhaps his value could have kept the Warriors afloat but damn they look really bad sometimes.  Tonight, KD (who didn't play great defense) was the only dude that showed up....

 

This is a great hypothetical hot take. For everyone interested in stuff like this, check out my fan fiction blog where Lebron never went to Miami and OKC never traded James Harden. You'll be shocked at how differently everything unfolded.

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7 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

This is a great hypothetical hot take. For everyone interested in stuff like this, check out my fan fiction blog where Lebron never went to Miami and OKC never traded James Harden. You'll be shocked at how differently everything unfolded.

Sounds riveting

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1 minute ago, Ricky Butler said:

This is a great hypothetical hot take. For everyone interested in stuff like this, check out my fan fiction blog where Lebron never went to Miami and OKC never traded James Harden. You'll be shocked at how differently everything unfolded.

giphy.gif

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1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

He's a great player and has won at least one title but don't pretend that all titles are equal.  Not hardly.  His title isn't even in the same universe at Bron's Cleveland title or either of Hakeem's titles.  Not fucking close even if KD wins 5 titles with GS.  Hell, it's not even in the same league as Dirk's title.

Those guys won titles.  Durant went to a team that won one for him.  Sorry, it's the truth and he knows it.  That's why he's so sensitive about it.

i agree (at least in principle) with your first paragraph.  some titles are more meaningful than others.  dirk's is a prime example.

your second paragraph is just pure horseshit though.  i'm guessing you didn't bother to watch the finals last year when he was the clear best player on the court?

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1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

He's a great player and has won at least one title but don't pretend that all titles are equal.  Not hardly.  His title isn't even in the same universe at Bron's Cleveland title or either of Hakeem's titles.  Not fucking close even if KD wins 5 titles with GS.  Hell, it's not even in the same league as Dirk's title.

Those guys won titles.  Durant went to a team that won one for him.  Sorry, it's the truth and he knows it.  That's why he's so sensitive about it.

Nobody who actually watched last year’s Finals could ever believe this. They lost without him, then they won with him while he won Finals MVP and hit the series-clinching three, and tour take is that “his team won it for him”. What?

 

giphy.gif

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Anyone who thinks that Golden State would have won last year's title without KD (or this year's, if that's what comes to pass) truly has a screw loose. 

Maybe, maybe, maybe they still win with Harrison Barnes, Bogut, and a couple nice bigs swooped up with the salary cap spike to replace Ezeli (and Bogut when he inevitably gets injured). But that's pure conjecture. I'm not banking on playoff Harrison Barnes. Last year's Cavs were really fucking good, especially offensively. They couldn't be stopped, only outscored. Houston is even better.

Curry may be more important and impactful to the Warriors on a day-to-day basis in terms of culture, offensive identity, and being the face of the franchise...and how the team looks whenever he's off the court bears that out. But in the playoffs, in the toughest matchups, when defenses are allowed to clutch and grab, there's absolutely no denying who's more likely to go win you a game. Maybe they don't need KD in the regular season, but his importance can't be overstated in May and June. He's almost always the best player on the court in the games that truly matter.

 

Edited by aggie08

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How is this even a question? He constantly reps UT and our current visibility is in part thanks to him.

He left Oklahoma at the altar for a livable city and a fun team to play for. Still has earthquakes, but no tornados. Also, no Okies. 

What's not to like?

Edited by Pods

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I fucking love KD, I don't give a fuck. What he does to earn money and a trophy is up to him. He's a phenomenal player and a great representative of THE University of Texas. Fuck the haters. 

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5 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Anyone who thinks that Golden State would have won last year's title without KD (or this year's, if that's what comes to pass) truly has a screw loose. 

Maybe, maybe, maybe they still win with Harrison Barnes, Bogut, and a couple nice bigs swooped up with the salary cap spike to replace Ezeli (and Bogut when he inevitably gets injured). But that's pure conjecture. I'm not banking on playoff Harrison Barnes. Last year's Cavs were really fucking good, especially offensively. They couldn't be stopped, only outscored. Houston is even better.

Curry may be more important and impactful to the Warriors on a day-to-day basis in terms of culture, offensive identity, and being the face of the franchise...and how the team looks whenever he's off the court bears that out. But in the playoffs, in the toughest matchups, when defenses are allowed to clutch and grab, there's absolutely no denying who's more likely to go win you a game. Maybe they don't need KD in the regular season, but his importance can't be overstated in May and June. He's almost always the best player on the court in the games that truly matter.

 

They wouldn't have won because they would have lost to OKC.  Keep in mind, OKC's start lineup would have been Westbrook, Dipo, Durant, somebody at PF, and Adams.  Durant's leaving didn't just help Golden State, it destroyed their only real competition.

 

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53 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

They wouldn't have won because they would have lost to OKC.  Keep in mind, OKC's start lineup would have been Westbrook, Dipo, Durant, somebody at PF, and Adams.  Durant's leaving didn't just help Golden State, it destroyed their only real competition.

 

Exactly, because OKC has such a rich history of winning, including when they featured KD, Russ, Harden, and good Ibaka. 

 

giphy.gif

Edited by Goo Punch

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50 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Durant's leaving didn't just help Golden State, it destroyed their only real competition.

As I've said before, I don't hate KD at all for going to GS (though I wish he went somewhere else), but people who defend his decision to go to GS (not his decision to leave OKC) always tend to leave this out. He killed two birds in one stone, and that's what makes it a bitter pill to swallow for some.

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Just now, Goo Punch said:

Exactly, because OKC has such a rich history of winning, including when they featured KD, Russ, Harden, and goof Ibaka. 

 

giphy.gif

OKC choked in 2016, but as constructed they were certainly good enough to beat the GOAT regular season team. To say otherwise is disingenuous.

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Uh, OKC was not GS’s “only real competition”. The Spurs were still awesome, the Rockets were still on their way up, and less than two years later both Boston and Philly look primed to be great for years, not to mention whichever team LeBron joins. Quit acting like KD killed the NBA.

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4 minutes ago, Machinator said:

OKC choked in 2016, but as constructed they were certainly good enough to beat the GOAT regular season team. To say otherwise is disingenuous.

And insinuating that OKC had a cohesive team that was going to be able to stay together and win together would be just as disingenuous.

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3 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

And insinuating that OKC had a cohesive team that was going to be able to stay together and win together would be just as disingenuous.

If OKC makes the finals, I doubt KD leaves. As trying as having to play with Westbrook and living in Oklahoma are, if that team is good enough to beat the 73-9 Warriors I think KD would be willing to give the Thunder another shot, even if they didn't beat the Cavs.

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8 minutes ago, Machinator said:

If OKC makes the finals, I doubt KD leaves. As trying as having to play with Westbrook and living in Oklahoma are, if that team is good enough to beat the 73-9 Warriors I think KD would be willing to give the Thunder another shot, even if they didn't beat the Cavs.

Could be. But I don’t believe that at all. Russ never knew his role, and those two guys were never ever ever going to agree on the way the game should be played. I believe that more than anything KD was out to win rings while Russ was out to prove that he was KD’s equal. KD spent so much time working, living, and playing with Russ- he knew what was what.

Besides, you have to take into account that this was KD’s one golden opportunity to take advantage of his FA *and* walk into a dream scenario after 9 unfulfilling years in Seattle/OKC. That alone is enough for him to decide to change scenery. The only way I’m convinced he doesn’t leave is if they had won it all.

Edited by Goo Punch

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1 hour ago, Goo Punch said:

Could be. But I don’t believe that at all. Russ never knew his role, and those two guys were never ever ever going to agree on the way the game should be played. I believe that more than anything KD was out to win rings while Russ was out to prove that he was KD’s equal. KD spent so much time working, living, and playing with Russ- he knew what was what.

Besides, you have to take into account that this was KD’s one golden opportunity to take advantage of his FA *and* walk into a dream scenario after 9 unfulfilling years in Seattle/OKC. That alone is enough for him to decide to change scenery. The only way I’m convinced he doesn’t leave is if they had won it all.

   You should just drop it. If the last couple years of watching Russ hasn't done anything to alter people's views on why KD left then nothing will. Russell Westbrook took 43 shots in a game where Carmelo Anthony and Paul George were also on the court. That is evidence enough of where his head is, and proof that he has no idea how to play basketball. I don't care whether you played in your YMCA 40 and up rec league or the NBA. Nobody wants to play with a guy that takes 43 shots. Nobody.

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3 hours ago, Machinator said:

If OKC makes the finals, I doubt KD leaves. As trying as having to play with Westbrook and living in Oklahoma are, if that team is good enough to beat the 73-9 Warriors I think KD would be willing to give the Thunder another shot, even if they didn't beat the Cavs.

I agree with this.... I think he would have signed a Lebron contract (2 year contract with PTO after 1) and run it back with Oladipo and Russell..... OKC vs Cleveland would have really been a great series, KD v Lebron, Kyrie v Westbrook, Adams v Tristan, etc, etc.

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Wasn't it pretty widely reported that KD was nonplussed about OKC shipping out Ibaka for Dipo on the eve of his decision?  Ibaka had a pretty terrible last regular season in OKC, but he was huge in the WCF being part of the super long, athletic trio of KD, Ibaka, and Adams that gave Golden State fits. For as much as people like to use Dipo (and what he's turned into since) as a knock against Russ last season, he wasn't thought of as anything close to what he is now.  He was just a nice player.

I think Golden State would have beat them last season, even had KD stayed (though it would have been one hell of a series).  They had their shot--they had a dozen things go in their favor--and they still missed.

Edited by aggie08

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On 5/15/2018 at 4:12 PM, zork said:

Dude, he chose to get out of Oklahoma.  It was a great decision.

There were many other choices.  Durant is a cupcake of epic proportions.  The fake tough guy persona is laughable.

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   You should just drop it. If the last couple years of watching Russ hasn't done anything to alter people's views on why KD left then nothing will. Russell Westbrook took 43 shots in a game where Carmelo Anthony and Paul George were also on the court. That is evidence enough of where his head is, and proof that he has no idea how to play basketball. I don't care whether you played in your YMCA 40 and up rec league or the NBA. Nobody wants to play with a guy that takes 43 shots. Nobody.


Most people don’t blame KD for leaving OKC. I am one of them and have stated as much in this same thread. His destination is what bothers people and that’s it as far as where he plays basketball. I don’t like his fake tough guy person he has developed, but I can acknowledge he is a good human being and does a lot for UT.

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On 5/16/2018 at 9:31 AM, BoomMF said:

Shaq to L.A. LeBron to Miami. Drexler to Houston. Chamberlain to L.A. Jabar to L.A. Barkley to Phoenix. Shaq to Miami. Rodman to Chicago. Durant to Golden State. And on and on.  It's a tale as old as time.

Putting Drexler on the list is asinine. The Rockets were a 6 seed that year, and they gave up a big piece of the previous year's championship team to get him.  Barkley to Phoenix is pretty stupid, too.

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10 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

Nobody who actually watched last year’s Finals could ever believe this. They lost without him, then they won with him while he won Finals MVP and hit the series-clinching three, and tour take is that “his team won it for him”. What?

 

giphy.gif

this gif is fucking amazing

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1 hour ago, angryhomer said:

There were many other choices. 

All of you sour grapes guys should start your posts with, "I'm a Rockets fan, and I'm sad that KD made a choice that hurts my team."

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13 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

A better approximation is Miami when Bron left.  Comparing it to Cleveland is foolish.  Miami won 54 after Lebron left.... Cleveland tore the whole thing down.

 

Miami still had Wade and Bosh. Though Bosh got blood clots and Wade's game aged poorly, but Miami was hardly destitute. Cleveland during Lebron's two runs can be a 30 for 30 on how not to build a NBA franchise. Giving bad contracts left and right to pacify one player, then having said player walk out the door, because those spare parts are really not that great, and getting stuck with their horrible contracts.

At least the Cavs had Kyrie to bridge the gap this time, until Lebron went Kobe on him, and drove him out.

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All of you sour grapes guys should start your posts with, "I'm a Rockets fan, and I'm sad that KD made a choice that hurts my team."


I don’t like sour grapes. I like sweet grapes. And be careful on that bandwagon. As full as it’s getting, it could be dangerous.


Sent from my cock to your mouth

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3 minutes ago, angryhomer said:

 


And be careful on that bandwagon. As full as it’s getting, it could be dangerous.


Sent from my cock to my mouth

 

It's not a bandwagon. They are the defending champs until they aren't. Let's see how much all of you care about KD's decision if the Rockets win it all this year. You're all full of shit.

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KD in Boston would have been epic. Not sure how he would have worked with IT, but I imagine the Celtics would have made the trade of IT+Crowder for Jimmy Butler instead of Kyrie. Would have been an interesting setup with Rozier/Butler/Tatum/KD/whoever with Smart and Brown coming off the bench. 

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1 hour ago, HtownHorn said:

Miami still had Wade and Bosh. Though Bosh got blood clots and Wade's game aged poorly, but Miami was hardly destitute. Cleveland during Lebron's two runs can be a 30 for 30 on how not to build a NBA franchise. Giving bad contracts left and right to pacify one player, then having said player walk out the door, because those spare parts are really not that great, and getting stuck with their horrible contracts.

At least the Cavs had Kyrie to bridge the gap this time, until Lebron went Kobe on him, and drove him out.

While I totally agree with you as far as roster construction with regards to Lebron and his requirements to overpay vets with small windows to better serve his windows, my point was comparing OKC after KD left is much more in line with Miami after Lebron left as they still had Bosh, an aging DWade and some cap room.  Bosh's medical issues really fucked them over. 

OKC after KD left still had Westbrook, Adams, Dipo, etc.  Cleveland got rid of everyone once Lebron left the first time and that was a pretty poor squad who were bounced pretty easily by Boston..... OKC - KD more equivalent to Miami - LJ that first year..... I think Cleveland will probably do the same this time around after Lebron leaves, because they bowed to his whims too much and the owner is an idiot.

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2 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

Miami still had Wade and Bosh. Though Bosh got blood clots and Wade's game aged poorly, but Miami was hardly destitute. Cleveland during Lebron's two runs can be a 30 for 30 on how not to build a NBA franchise. Giving bad contracts left and right to pacify one player, then having said player walk out the door, because those spare parts are really not that great, and getting stuck with their horrible contracts.

At least the Cavs had Kyrie to bridge the gap this time, until Lebron went Kobe on him, and drove him out.

   This is not true. Their first go round the organization did nothing to pacify one player which is why he left. This go round Lebron is on record saying that if they traded Kyrie then he wouldn't resign with the Cavs and they traded him anyway. Kyrie wasn't pushing to get out until they shopped him around, and then he was hurt by that. Also, if you think he wanted Wade traded you have lost your mind as well. The other two were cancerous, and that trade needed to happen in order to repair the lockerroom. They packaged the other guys to get what they wanted.

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Almost none of that is accurate. LeBron is not on record saying that he would leave if Kyrie got traded. LeBron ok'ed the team discussing a deal that would have landed them Paul George and Eric Bledsoe. It nearly got done until Indiana backed out trading PG to the East. That's when Kyrie found out and got butthurt. LeBron was/is mad how little they got for Kyrie.

They got nothing for Wade. If LeBron didn't want him moved, he'd still be there. He wasn't a good fit. Cleveland's brass asked LeBron if it would be okay if they offered Wade the chance to go back to Miami, and he said yes. Wade jumped at the chance.

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3 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Almost none of that is accurate. LeBron is not on record saying that he would leave if Kyrie got traded. LeBron ok'ed the team discussing a deal that would have landed them Paul George and Eric Bledsoe. It nearly got done until Indiana backed out trading PG to the East. That's when Kyrie found out and got butthurt. LeBron was/is mad how little they got for Kyrie.

They got nothing for Wade. If LeBron didn't want him moved, he'd still be there. He wasn't a good fit. Cleveland's brass asked LeBron if it would be okay if they offered Wade the chance to go back to Miami, and he said yes. Wade jumped at the chance.

Not only this but the Cavs org did nothing but try and pacify Lebron the first go around, they did it very poorly but Lebron's wants weren't very good either.  We've had this discussion on the old site many, many times.  Larry Hughes, Varejao's extension, Mo Williams, Jamison, Shaq, etc, etc were all at Lebron's behest..... 

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so when Chris Paul wins the championship this year with Houston do we say the same thing about him?  How he quit on his team after begging Deandre Jordan to stay then abandoning ship to join a Rockets team that was considered to be one of the favorites to make win it all?  

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To play Devil's advocate (a great game BTW), Paul joined a team that was very good but had not yet already won a championship whereas Durant joined a proven championship team.  I'm happy that Kevin did what he did.  I want the most success for him in basketball and in his personal life.  F' the haters.  KD til I die.  

Most of these guys in his position choose either to go where they can get the most money (a fair, but not necessarily noble choice) or where they have the best chance of winning a title.  I guess taking less money to never win a championship is the only way you can make some fans happy.  

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i mean, to be fair, it could be argued that had kyrie and kevin love been healthy in 2015 the warriors wouldn't have won the title that year.  then he's just joining a regular season juggernaut that can't win shit or whatever else people like vic and skip bayless would have said about them.

Edited by BigOrange1

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18 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Almost none of that is accurate. LeBron is not on record saying that he would leave if Kyrie got traded. LeBron ok'ed the team discussing a deal that would have landed them Paul George and Eric Bledsoe. It nearly got done until Indiana backed out trading PG to the East. That's when Kyrie found out and got butthurt. LeBron was/is mad how little they got for Kyrie.

They got nothing for Wade. If LeBron didn't want him moved, he'd still be there. He wasn't a good fit. Cleveland's brass asked LeBron if it would be okay if they offered Wade the chance to go back to Miami, and he said yes. Wade jumped at the chance.

   He told front office that he wasn't going to commit to another year if they traded Kyrie. Kyrie is the one who didn't want to play second fiddle to Lebron. In his mind he is better than Lebron. The media didn't help by constantly saying that Kyrie was the "finisher" in games, and Kyrie was the one who was clutch. Remember, it was Kyrie's team until Bron came back and took everything away from him. I am sure he was harboring resentment about that from day one.

   Bron was in the driver's seat, so he had no issue with the way things were. Kyrie went to management and told them he wasn't happy. Word was Kyrie was becoming aloof, and it was obvious to anyone in the organization that something needed to be done. What Kyrie expected was for them to choose him, and he was really hurt when they didn't. That is when he asked to be traded.

   I know people always want to make Lebron the villain(much like the KD leaving OKC situation). However, we fans built these monsters so we can't complain. We constantly tell them if they aren't winning titles anything else they do is worthless, and then are surprised when they leverage their abilities to put themselves in situations to do just that. I said pretty much all this on the Shag when the trade went down. David Griffin did and interview with Bill Simmons a couple weeks ago and confirmed what was told to me.

 

https://www.theringer.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/2018/5/9/17337792/david-griffin-bill-simmons-podcast-kyrie-irving-lebron-james

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So LeBron would have committed last offseason to another year had they kept Kyrie?

And Kyrie thought there was a chance in hell that the organization would choose him over LeBron?

Bullshit on both accounts.

Edited by aggie08

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so when Chris Paul wins the championship this year with Houston do we say the same thing about him?  How he quit on his team after begging Deandre Jordan to stay then abandoning ship to join a Rockets team that was considered to be one of the favorites to make win it all?  


Not even a close comparison. One that I can think of that would be similar is if David Robinson had left SA to join the 96-97 Bulls team who were coming off of a title and single season win record. Only difference is Robinson was not thought of as the second best player in the world at the time, but it’s a fairly close comparison.

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It’s about as close a comparison I can come up with. They had won the title the prior year and were up 3-1 in the Finals coming off of breaking the single season win mark. If you can come up with a better comparison, have at it.

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6 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

So he would have committed last offseason to another year had they kept Kyrie? And Kyrie thought there was a chance in hell that the organization would choose him over LeBron? Bullshit.

   You can choose to believe whatever you want to believe.

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C'mon, man. LeBron never, ever makes a decision about his future before he absolutely has to. He wasn't going to prematurely commit to an aging Cavs team just because they held on to Kyrie a month after losing the Finals in 5 games. Don't be naive. Would keeping Kyrie have helped sell LeBron on staying this offseason? Sure, probably. But he wouldn't have signed anything last offseason regardless. Again, he was perfectly fine with moving KI for PG and Bledsoe last year. THAT was the final straw in the deteriorating Cleveland/Irving relationship.

Even a flat-earther isn't stupid enough to think Cleveland would trade their native son to keep him happy.

Edited by aggie08

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Another comparison, and maybe better, could be if Shaq had left Orlando to join the 96 Bulls (yes aggie08, I understand that Orlando beat the Bulls the year before, so the comparison is not exactly the same).  

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Quote

The Golden State Warriors were blown out by the Houston Rockets in Game 2 of the Western Conference Finals.

Kevin Durant was asked if he was shocked to experience that type of loss for the first time in the playoffs since joining the Warriors.

“No, (expletive) happens,” Durant said. “We’re not invincible. We’re not the juggernauts of the NBA. We’re a good team, but that’s a great team on the other end as well.

“That’s the beauty of the game, man. Some games, you’re going to get knocked out. Some games, you’re going to get punched in the face. How you respond, that’s the beauty of it. They played great tonight and we’ll see how we respond next game.”

Via Tim Kawakami/The Athletic

All I can think of in my head is, "I'M NOT THE JUGGERNAUT, BITCH!!!"  lol

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1 hour ago, Hate said:

Another comparison, and maybe better, could be if Shaq had left Orlando to join the 96 Bulls (yes aggie08, I understand that Orlando beat the Bulls the year before, so the comparison is not exactly the same).  

Shaq joining Michael, Scotty, and Phil is the same thing as KD joining a team that wouldn’t even have won a title last year without him? Are you mad?! The pre-KD Warriors = MJ and Scottie’s Bulls? No. No no no.

Edited by Goo Punch

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