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All Things Brisket


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12 minutes ago, Jerry Callo said:

It didn't seem to me that the amount of tallow used by the video guy would have been enough to make much of a difference.  It wouldn't hurt anything, but I doubt it would be the game changer he makes it out to be.

 

Yeah, but now I am curious and going to have to try it. 

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I rest briskets and really any beef product that I've smoked (ribs, briskets, loins, etc.) in a cooler for at least 60-90 minutes.  I leave them wrapped in butcher paper.  11 hour rests are kinda foreign to me but when you're doing 150 of them, it makes sense I guess?


Wrapped in a cooler would actually be “holding”, I believe, effectively continuing the cooking process as long as enough heat is contained. Versus resting, wherein the meat is more quickly cooling and the juices reincorporate back into the meat. It is my understanding that the latter is necessary whereas the former is optional. Some mistakenly think holding = resting and end up slicing meat that has not cooled and lose the juice on the cutting board as a result.
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44 minutes ago, Lurch said:

 


Wrapped in a cooler would actually be “holding”, I believe, effectively continuing the cooking process as long as enough heat is contained. Versus resting, wherein the meat is more quickly cooling and the juices reincorporate back into the meat. It is my understanding that the latter is necessary whereas the former is optional. Some mistakenly think holding = resting and end up slicing meat that has not cooled and lose the juice on the cutting board as a result.

 

Rest, then put in cooler if you need to hold.

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I thought he used a lot of paper, too (and two sheets).  Then, searching for something else, I came across the written part of Franklin's master class and, what do you know, there, he recommended two overlapped sheets enough for four times over wrapping.

On holding, I recall reading years ago that Franklin was holding the briskets for around 6 hours from off the pit until serving.  Sounds like a matter of convenience, but supposedly, it makes a difference.

On the beef tallow in the paper, I sincerely doubt Franklin is rewrapping anything.  I leave mine in paper, but wrap around that with foil just to keep the grease from collecting in the cooler.  My butcher paper is always soaked.  I don't think that will make an appreciable difference.  But who knows?

The only thing I ever remember hearing Franklin soaking in beef tallow was the butcher paper he uses to start the fires.

Edited by dcbc
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My briskets come pre-tallowed.  All I have to do is cut some off.


Good point. So after throwing brisket on, start rendering all the fat you cut off, then apply that when you wrap 5-6 hours in? Sounds like a good approach assuming the fat generates enough tallow
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Rest then hold. The hold is important. ChampKind reluctantly admitted the hold was key to achieving Franklin level tenderness. I don’t remember the science or whether it was on here or TOS. But ever since I’ve been trying to hold for as long as possible with improved results. 

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Kind of wanting to repurpose some of my old homebrew gear to make my brisket cooler a no-towel warmer.  I figure I tape up a reptile aquarium heater on the inside, plugged into a temperature controller.  Set it to 145F, and see if it can keep up without a bunch of towels so I can open it to add more meats for big cooks.

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14 hours ago, Lurch said:

Good point. So after throwing brisket on, start rendering all the fat you cut off, then apply that when you wrap 5-6 hours in? Sounds like a good approach assuming the fat generates enough tallow

A sausage grinder is ideal for tallow.  Much easier to grind the fat before rendering.  I save most of my tallow for beef cheeks and barbacoa.

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19 hours ago, McFly said:

Rest then hold. The hold is important. ChampKind reluctantly admitted the hold was key to achieving Franklin level tenderness. I don’t remember the science or whether it was on here or TOS. But ever since I’ve been trying to hold for as long as possible with improved results. 


I remember that part of discussion. I also remember looking up whatever holding cabinets he’s using and quickly running away. They weren’t cheap. 
 

Makes sense though. Know your rest period, average cook times, and there ya go. Cook, hold, open and serve.

IIRC, after the briskets come off they use the time for the other products. Although maybe they run some of it along with the briskets, but I dunno how ribs would do on a long hold like that, and they obviously take a lot less time to run than briskets and butts. 

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4 hours ago, thunderlounge said:


I remember that part of discussion. I also remember looking up whatever holding cabinets he’s using and quickly running away. They weren’t cheap. 
 

Makes sense though. Know your rest period, average cook times, and there ya go. Cook, hold, open and serve.

IIRC, after the briskets come off they use the time for the other products. Although maybe they run some of it along with the briskets, but I dunno how ribs would do on a long hold like that, and they obviously take a lot less time to run than briskets and butts. 

No, they aren't cheap.  I think they are running briskets separate from everything else, definitely separate from the ribs which are on that big rotisserie smoker. 

This video where the guy from Bon Appetite does a 24 hour shift at Franklin gives a little bit of a window into how they are timing the cooks.  Briskets went on at 10 a.m.  Apple cider vinegar is mentioned as being in the spray bottles.  Looks like they're using a mustard binder on the ribs, etc. 

But most of the magic of his brisket is quality of product and process.  Whether he adds some garlic powder to his rub, uses one binder vs. another, or uses Worcestershire or ACV in the spritz isn't a difference making decision IMO.

 

Edited by dcbc
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2 hours ago, dcbc said:

No, they aren't cheap.  I think they are running briskets separate from everything else, definitely separate from the ribs which are on that big rotisserie smoker. 


The brand escapes me. For some reason it’s stuck in my head that it started with an “A”, but who knows. I’ve slept since then.  

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Corned beef for St Patrick's Day. 5 pound flat brisket, cured for 8 days with salts, peppercorn, mustard seeds, cloves, bay leaves, brown sugar. Vacuum sealed and stored in fridge. Yesterday, I stuck it in a 180 degree sous vide bath for 12 hours. Back in the fridge overnight. Sliced it tonight and warmed it up in the oven. Bliss. 

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Edited by Eggo
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I'm feeling an Easter brisket in the works for next weekend.

Can someone quick school me on resting vs. holding?  We've wrapped in tin foil and let sit in an unheated oven in the past.  Usually 45-60 minutes.  From reading up thread, it sounds like that's more resting but possibly doing some of the holding stuff?

Edited by Al_4_ISU
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4 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I'm feeling an Easter brisket in the works for next weekend.

Can someone quick school me on resting vs. holding?  We've wrapped in tin foil and let sit in an unheated oven in the past.  Usually 45-60 minutes.  From reading up thread, it sounds like that's more resting but possibly doing some of the holding stuff?

I usually rest on the counter for about half an hour and then wrap in foil and put it in a prewarmed cooler with the headspace filled with towels.  I could probably rest longer (down to an internal temp of 150 or so), but I don't have any problem with this method.

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I usually rest on the counter for about half an hour and then wrap in foil and put it in a prewarmed cooler with the headspace filled with towels.  I could probably rest longer (down to an internal temp of 150 or so), but I don't have any problem with this method.

So you’re resting to a specific temp?
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2 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:


So you’re resting to a specific temp?

No.  I'm giving it about half an hour on the counter, then wrapping it up and tossing it in the cooler.  But if you were shooting for a specific temp, you could rest for longer (possibly) and let it get down to about 155 F or so, then hold in the cooler.  Just want to keep it above 145F for safety's sake.  Since I can't control the temp in the cooler, I tend to put it in a bit warmer so I can hold for a while.

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No.  I'm giving it about half an hour on the counter, then wrapping it up and tossing it in the cooler.  But if you were shooting for a specific temp, you could rest for longer (possibly) and let it get down to about 155 F or so, then hold in the cooler.  Just want to keep it above 145F for safety's sake.  Since I can't control the temp in the cooler, I tend to put it in a bit warmer so I can hold for a while.

Thanks! Just trying to get a handle on when to end a hold.


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Just now, Al_4_ISU said:


Thanks! Just trying to get a handle on when to end a hold.


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I've heard of people saying an hour.  But at a certain point, if you aren't going to slice right away, I like to err on the side of not resting so long that you don't have enough internal temp carryover to keep things warm in the cooler.  I've held from up to six hours after that with no troubles in the cooler.  I'm pretty tempted to rig up some sort of heating pad to a temperature controller so I can hold overnight and start cooking during the day on occasion.  Seems like it would be pretty easy.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I haven’t smoked a brisket in close to 10 years but did one for Easter. I got a prime brisket from Costco for 2.99/lb. It turned out fantastic, best one I’ve done. So tender and delicious.
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On 3/23/2021 at 4:54 PM, dcbc said:

I've heard of people saying an hour.  But at a certain point, if you aren't going to slice right away, I like to err on the side of not resting so long that you don't have enough internal temp carryover to keep things warm in the cooler.  I've held from up to six hours after that with no troubles in the cooler.  I'm pretty tempted to rig up some sort of heating pad to a temperature controller so I can hold overnight and start cooking during the day on occasion.  Seems like it would be pretty easy.

oven at lowest temp is probably easier to do...

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32 minutes ago, NoName said:

oven at lowest temp is probably easier to do...

Not my oven.  Lowest temp is 170 and there's a swing.  I've even adjusted the temp on it down and it still dried it out.  Cooler works better in my experience.  I can always heat fire bricks in the oven for longer holds, I guess.

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41 minutes ago, dcbc said:

Not my oven.  Lowest temp is 170 and there's a swing.  I've even adjusted the temp on it down and it still dried it out.  Cooler works better in my experience.  I can always heat fire bricks in the oven for longer holds, I guess.

dang, sorry to hear that but this reminds me i need to do some work to see if that happens in mine

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30 minutes ago, NoName said:

dang, sorry to hear that but this reminds me i need to do some work to see if that happens in mine

Sometimes, I'll get mine up to 165, turn it off, and hold food in it for a bit.  But for really long holds, it's too all over the place. 

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