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2020 Baseball Cheaters vs the World Thread of Hate


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1 hour ago, wild_turkey said:


If the Rays win in a fair series then they deserve it and the Dodgers played a good season and ultimately lost to a great team. Not the outcome we want, but it’s better than finding out a team cheated their way to victory because they lacked confidence to win an honest game. That’s just pathetic.

Now you're just projecting. That's hilarious and perfectly illustrates the butthurt insecurities of opposing fans shaking their fists in fake moral outrage. 

It's one thing to discuss illegal sign stealing by the Astros or allegations of illegal sign stealing by other teams or even whether that has a significant effect in the outcome of a game, but a weak sauce armchair psychologist argument proves to me that you have no interest in context, circumstances, or the fuller picture. You're just a little crybaby because your team didn't win. Fucking pussy. 

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1 hour ago, FondrenRoad said:

That was really more directed at sbbruin and Rob Lowe than Dodger fans in general.  They'll be clawing their eyes out and inconsolably crying for weeks with a loss. 

And I'd argue that Dodger fans are generally more pathetic. While you're no sbbruin, you also still can't stop crying. Yankee fans aren't really doing the same. They make drugs for depression, you know?

The Dodgers should beat the Rays. They paid high dollar for the best players at the store, but you already expect the Dodgers to blow it. The real problem for you is that Dodger players expect to blow it too. So who lacks confidence?  You are either the deer or you're the headlights. 

 

Show me all the top dollar impact free agents we signed?  We traded for Mookie.  Who else?  Joe Kelly?  AJ Pollock?  Nice try.  A false narrative.  

Enjoy your offseason.

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30 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Show me all the top dollar impact free agents we signed?  We traded for Mookie.  Who else?  Joe Kelly?  AJ Pollock?  Nice try.  A false narrative.  

Enjoy your offseason.

Lol.  You have the second highest payroll in baseball.  You did draft Kershaw, but you also paid the fuck out of him when a team like the Rays couldn't have done the same.  Sure, he didn't become a free agent because you paid him 93 million dollars over 3 years, more than he would have gotten on the free agent market because of his injury history.  Turner, your 3rd highest paid player, was an Oriole product.  You did get him for bargain pricing initially, but then you paid the fuck out of him when a team like the Rays couldn't have done the same.  Pollock, your fourth highest paid player, was a Diamondback.  You overpaid for him.  Jansen and Bellinger are true Dodger products.  But again, you overpay when the Rays would have had to sell.

Buying a team is as much about hanging on to expensive talent as it is signing free agents. Really, the Dodgers and the Yankees are the only teams even capable of doing it across their entire roster, and both do it.  But just like you don't give a shit that your team has an operating budget that is multiple times greater than the Rays, and you think your team operates "fairly" when it comes to other teams like the Rays, Astros fans also don't give a shit about how you feel about the 2017 World Series.  You lost the series.  Plain and simple.  But any team that spends as much as yours does should be able to win a title every now and then.  If not most titles.  The Yankees have 27.  Manchester United has 13.  Is this your year?  Maybe, like Liverpool, all those years of spending will finally pay off.

And really, I'm just looking out for your mental health.  I don't think you're mentally prepared for a Rays win.  Enjoy the Lakers win though.  They did it with a salary cap, and by signing free agents who actually wanted to play there.  That Lakers title is legit and was won on a truly equal playing field.

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a weak sauce armchair psychologist argument proves to me that you have no interest in context, circumstances, or the fuller picture. You're just a little crybaby because your team didn't win. Fucking pussy. 


Sorry to disappoint you but I actually don’t care why the Astros decided to cheat. We don’t need to waste time going through the list of possible motivations because that list contains exactly ZERO justifiable or respectable reasons to cheat. Regardless of their motivation, a cheater is a cheater.
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If you Dodgers fans want to put an asterisk  on the Astros championship then I think I'll do the same if the Dodgers win this year. Who knows what would have happened with a full season. And who knows what would have happened in 2017 without the sign stealing. Speculation on the end result in both circumstances is just that, speculation.

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Lol.  You have the second highest payroll in baseball.  You did draft Kershaw, but you also paid the fuck out of him when a team like the Rays couldn't have done the same.  Sure, he didn't become a free agent because you paid him 93 million dollars over 3 years, more than he would have gotten on the free agent market because of his injury history.  Turner, your 3rd highest paid player, was an Oriole product.  You did get him for bargain pricing initially, but then you paid the fuck out of him when a team like the Rays couldn't have done the same.  Pollock, your fourth highest paid player, was a Diamondback.  You overpaid for him.  Jansen and Bellinger are true Dodger products.  But again, you overpay when the Rays would have had to sell.
Buying a team is as much about hanging on to expensive talent as it is signing free agents. Really, the Dodgers and the Yankees are the only teams even capable of doing it across their entire roster, and both do it.  But just like you don't give a shit that your team has an operating budget that is multiple times greater than the Rays, and you think your team operates "fairly" when it comes to other teams like the Rays, Astros fans also don't give a shit about how you feel about the 2017 World Series.  You lost the series.  Plain and simple.  But any team that spends as much as yours does should be able to win a title every now and then.  If not most titles.  The Yankees have 27.  Manchester United has 13.  Is this your year?  Maybe, like Liverpool, all those years of spending will finally pay off.
And really, I'm just looking out for your mental health.  I don't think you're mentally prepared for a Rays win.  Enjoy the Lakers win though.  They did it with a salary cap, and by signing free agents who actually wanted to play there.  That Lakers title is legit and was won on a truly equal playing field.

The Dodgers have the 2nd most homegrown roster in the MLB and the 2nd highest payroll.

The Astros have the 1st most homegrown roster in the MLB and the 4th highest payroll.

Both teams have grown their own talent and paid $$$ to keep that talent.

I’m not sure what your point is? If you want a discussion on the economic disparities in MLB then that’s an interesting discussion to have, but it’s currently not cheating to have a high payroll. This is the thread to talk about the fact that the Astros actually cheated.
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If you Dodgers fans want to put an asterisk  on the Astros championship then I think I'll do the same if the Dodgers win this year. Who knows what would have happened with a full season. And who knows what would have happened in 2017 without the sign stealing. Speculation on the end result in both circumstances is just that, speculation.

You are certainly welcome to do that but we played within the agreed upon rules of the game. But if that makes you happy about the outcome, then have at it.
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If you Dodgers fans want to put an asterisk  on the Astros championship then I think I'll do the same if the Dodgers win this year. Who knows what would have happened with a full season. And who knows what would have happened in 2017 without the sign stealing. Speculation on the end result in both circumstances is just that, speculation.

You are certainly welcome to do that but we played within the agreed upon rules of the game. But if that makes you happy about the outcome, then have at it.
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2 hours ago, Gourmand said:

Now you're just projecting. That's hilarious and perfectly illustrates the butthurt insecurities of opposing fans shaking their fists in fake moral outrage. 

It's one thing to discuss illegal sign stealing by the Astros or allegations of illegal sign stealing by other teams or even whether that has a significant effect in the outcome of a game, but a weak sauce armchair psychologist argument proves to me that you have no interest in context, circumstances, or the fuller picture. You're just a little crybaby because your team didn't win. Fucking pussy. 

I think he said it to get this exact reaction out of you. Because he knows you guys can’t help but defend your team that was proven to be cheaters. Instead of just accepting that nobody is ever going to change their mind, and they’re always going to consider you guys as cheaters, you continue to care about what other fans think about your team because YOU guys are the insecure ones. Everyone thinks y’all are cheaters, man. Some of y’all have accepted that. It really isn’t a big deal that y’all cheated because it’s just sports, but you guys have a slimy tainted World Series that will always be viewed that way. Unless of course, you somehow finish above .500 and win a World Series post cheating. The sooner y’all accept that, the better it will be for you. Because the hate isn’t going anywhere. But so what. Lean into it.

“Yeah we’re the fucking cheaters. Yeah manfred took it easy on us because he didn’t want to upset one of his biggest markets. Yeah we’re unapologetic about it. What are you gonna do, bitch. Tainted flags fly forever.” 
 

That’s what the Patriots have done. The franchise 2nd in line for being known as the biggest cheaters behind y’all. Sometimes, when everyone thinks you’re 

Edited by youdunnf'dup
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14 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I think he said it to get this exact reaction out of you. Because he knows you guys can’t help but defend your team that was proven to be cheaters. Instead of just accepting that nobody is ever going to change their mind, and they’re always going to consider you guys as cheaters, you continue to care about what other fans think about your team because YOU guys are the insecure ones. Everyone thinks y’all are cheaters, man. Some of y’all have accepted that. It really isn’t a big deal that y’all cheated because it’s just sports, but you guys have a slimy tainted World Series that will always be viewed that way. Unless of course, you somehow finish above .500 and win a World Series post cheating. The sooner y’all accept that, the better it will be for you. Because the hate isn’t going anywhere. But so what. Lean into it.

“Yeah we’re the fucking cheaters. Yeah manfred took it easy on us because he didn’t want to upset one of his biggest markets. Yeah we’re unapologetic about it. What are you gonna do, bitch. Tainted flags fly forever.” 
 

That’s what the Patriots have done. The franchise 2nd in line for being known as the biggest cheaters behind y’all. Sometimes, when everyone thinks you’re 

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On 10/22/2020 at 12:25 PM, slorch said:

The point was that Kershaw has been anything but lights out in the playoffs, regardless of venue...

Your argument seems to be predicated upon that one real good performance and having some transitive property across all games...

because, and I am LMAO, that's how sports always does.

When the Astros scored 13 runs, the banging must have propelled the Dodgers to their 12, right?

Moreso the little league ballpark the Stros play in.  

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On 10/23/2020 at 11:50 AM, FondrenRoad said:

Lol.  You have the second highest payroll in baseball.  You did draft Kershaw, but you also paid the fuck out of him when a team like the Rays couldn't have done the same.  Sure, he didn't become a free agent because you paid him 93 million dollars over 3 years, more than he would have gotten on the free agent market because of his injury history.  Turner, your 3rd highest paid player, was an Oriole product.  You did get him for bargain pricing initially, but then you paid the fuck out of him when a team like the Rays couldn't have done the same.  Pollock, your fourth highest paid player, was a Diamondback.  You overpaid for him.  Jansen and Bellinger are true Dodger products.  But again, you overpay when the Rays would have had to sell.

Buying a team is as much about hanging on to expensive talent as it is signing free agents. Really, the Dodgers and the Yankees are the only teams even capable of doing it across their entire roster, and both do it.  But just like you don't give a shit that your team has an operating budget that is multiple times greater than the Rays, and you think your team operates "fairly" when it comes to other teams like the Rays, Astros fans also don't give a shit about how you feel about the 2017 World Series.  You lost the series.  Plain and simple.  But any team that spends as much as yours does should be able to win a title every now and then.  If not most titles.  The Yankees have 27.  Manchester United has 13.  Is this your year?  Maybe, like Liverpool, all those years of spending will finally pay off.

And really, I'm just looking out for your mental health.  I don't think you're mentally prepared for a Rays win.  Enjoy the Lakers win though.  They did it with a salary cap, and by signing free agents who actually wanted to play there.  That Lakers title is legit and was won on a truly equal playing field.

Just poked my head in to see what the discussion was still circling around. I would like to point out that this is a completely fucking stupid argument. You’re argument is that they draft and develop well and can afford to pay their talent and that’s a problem? As a Houston fan, that’s the point you are trying to make?

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1 hour ago, Brew said:

Just poked my head in to see what the discussion was still circling around. I would like to point out that this is a completely fucking stupid argument. You’re argument is that they draft and develop well and can afford to pay their talent and that’s a problem? As a Houston fan, that’s the point you are trying to make?

That part of the discussion began with Helobious.

I'll leave it at that.

Happy offseason, e'rybody.

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3 hours ago, Brew said:

Just poked my head in to see what the discussion was still circling around. I would like to point out that this is a completely fucking stupid argument. You’re argument is that they draft and develop well and can afford to pay their talent and that’s a problem? As a Houston fan, that’s the point you are trying to make?

Your. 

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On 10/29/2020 at 5:18 PM, youdunnf'dup said:

Wait what?! He seemed like a perfect culture fit. It’s just domestic violence, no big deal.


How are you giving up on him after “Thank god we got Osuna” front office guy put his job on the line defending him?

Osuna always sucked as a person. I side with JV's opinion when they were thinking about signing him.  And I never liked him being on the team. In fact, he was the first "bad chemistry" guy on the roster. I hope that story is true. 

He will fit in well up in Dallas though. Y'all hired Barry Switzer knowing he sucked as a coach without cheating and allowing a lack of institutional control. Your fans dont give a shit.  Rangers should sign Osuna. You already have your sign stealer. You hired Woodward specifically for that. It sucks that he hasn't been very good at it so far.  Maybe time to look at Cora instead. You were too late to get Hinch. 

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9 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

Osuna always sucked as a person. I side with JV's opinion when they were thinking about signing him.  And I never liked him being on the team. In fact, he was the first "bad chemistry" guy on the roster. I hope that story is true. 

He will fit in well up in Dallas though. Y'all hired Barry Switzer knowing he sucked as a coach without cheating and allowing a lack of institutional control. Your fans dont give a shit.  Rangers should sign Osuna. You already have your sign stealer. You hired Woodward specifically for that. It sucks that he hasn't been very good at it so far.  Maybe time to look at Cora instead. You were too late to get Hinch. 

Just to be clear, I wish my team cheated its way to a title. A tainted, asterisk title is better than no title. 

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9 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

Osuna always sucked as a person. I side with JV's opinion when they were thinking about signing him.  And I never liked him being on the team. In fact, he was the first "bad chemistry" guy on the roster. I hope that story is true. 

He will fit in well up in Dallas though. Y'all hired Barry Switzer knowing he sucked as a coach without cheating and allowing a lack of institutional control. Your fans dont give a shit.  Rangers should sign Osuna. You already have your sign stealer. You hired Woodward specifically for that. It sucks that he hasn't been very good at it so far.  Maybe time to look at Cora instead. You were too late to get Hinch. 

Carlos Gomez needed a beating, as well...  Granted, he wasn't a criminal, but he was still a fucktool who didn't fit the culture.

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3 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Just to be clear, I wish my team cheated its way to a title. A tainted, asterisk title is better than no title. 

Yeah, I know. Personally, I'm also tired of watching dirty OU win every Big 12 title, and the dirty SEC win every national title while we lose "clean."

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4 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:
Quote

You could see this coming from a mile away.

Sports Illustrated reports the Houston Astros complained to Major League Baseball about taunting by fans this season. This report comes at a time when New York Yankees fans are absolutely crushing the Astros at Yankee Stadium.

Quote

UPDATE (2:59 p.m.): Per NJ Advance Media’s Brendan Kuty: “Source says the Yankees weren’t contacted about any Astros complaints regarding fan behavior before or during this series.” Read more about that here.

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Yeah, I know. Personally, I'm also tired of watching dirty OU win every Big 12 title, and the dirty SEC win every national title while we lose "clean."

Agreed. Your Head Coach retention and selection decisions the last ten years played no part.
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  • 1 month later...

Does this go here? Can't wait to read a book entitled Cheated: The Inside Story of the Astros Scandal and a Colorful History of Sign Stealing 🙄

https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/06/09/astros-sign-stealing-scheme-continued-2019-playoffs

Quote

Martino's book, Cheated: The Inside Story of the Astros Scandal and a Colorful History of Sign Stealing, details Houston's sign-stealing in 2019, which differed slightly from the practice in previous years. According to Martino, the Astros would use television monitors to pick up the opposing catcher's signs, then use a whistling coach and massage gun to signal different pitches to the team's hitters. 

 

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  • 9 months later...
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In his first interview since the Astros sign-stealing scandal, former outfielder and recently hired YES Network analyst Carlos Beltrán said on his new network that the 2017 Astros “felt in our hearts that we were being more efficient and smarter than any team out there.”

“We all did what we did,” Beltrán said on CenterStage with Michael Kay, per a YES Network transcript of the program, which airs Monday. “Looking back today, we were wrong.”

Beltrán pointed the finger at his bosses in Houston, suggesting the players would have listened to a demand to stop the scheme. At the same time, Beltrán suggested it would have been impractical for the players to stop themselves from cheating when they believed the scheme was working.

“A lot of people always ask me why you didn’t stop it,” Beltrán said. “And my answer is, I didn’t stop it the same way no one stopped it. This is working for us. Why you gonna stop something that is working for you? So, if the organization would’ve said something to us, we would’ve stopped it for sure.”

As The Athletic first reported, Beltrán helped devise the Astros’ sign-stealing scheme that linked a camera in center field to a video screen situated in the tunnel, steps from the dugout. Astros players and staff would watch the video screen and communicate what pitch was coming to their hitters in real time at Astros home games in 2017, often by banging on a garbage can with a baseball bat.

Beltrán suggested there was no communication with the Astros front office in September 2017 about a warning commissioner Rob Manfred issued to all teams that month, saying that his office would treat electronic sign-stealing more seriously moving forward. Manfred cited the insufficient relay of that message in the league’s announcement of its findings.

“Well, if they (the Astros front office) got the letter, they knew, but they never shared it with us,” Beltrán said. “Nobody said anything to us, you know, nobody said anything. I wish somebody would’ve said something.”

Following an investigation by The Athletic into the Astros’ cheating that was published in 2019, Beltrán initially said he was not aware of the camera the Astros had used to steal signs, and that the Astros had only stolen signs legally, a falsehood. Beltrán early the next year lost his job as Mets manager after MLB finished its investigation. Red Sox manager Alex Cora, Astros manager A.J. Hinch and Astros president Jeff Luhnow lost their jobs as well. Cora, Hinch and Luhnow were suspended for a season.

Hinch and Cora have returned to major league managerial roles, while Beltrán is now moving into a team-affiliated broadcasting position. He is eligible to be voted into the Hall of Fame for the first time in 2023. Luhnow is out of baseball.

“I wish I would’ve asked more questions about what we were doing,” Beltrán said. “I wish the organization would’ve said to us, ‘Hey man, what you guys are doing, we need to stop this.'”

As a veteran with an excellent track record of performance, Beltrán was one of the leaders on the team and a tone-setter in the clubhouse. He was referred to by the group as “the Godfather.” He would have been as well-positioned to ask questions in the clubhouse at the time as anyone else on the team, if not better.

Beltrán said that in starting the scheme, the Astros were trying to get up to speed with what they believed other teams to be doing.

“We felt that when teams are coming to our ballpark (Minute Maid Park), we felt that some teams have something going on,” Beltrán said. “So we felt that we needed to create our own (system), you know, and that’s what happened.”

“Almost every team, has their video room next to the dugout,” he continued. “Our video room in Houston was in the clubhouse. So we needed to run there to see our at-bats…

“So we felt why we don’t have our video room next to our dugout?  Now, all of sudden we got our video room next to our dugout and it’s easy…simple. We had a feed that was good for us, you know?

“We’re seeing the game…you get to see the pitchers, you get to see the catchers. And then we felt that we could use that, you know, but we didn’t feel that we were really crossing the line there. We didn’t feel we were really crossing the line.”

It was not immediately clear whether Beltrán offered specifics or was asked about what other behaviors the Astros understood other teams to be undertaking or what evidence he or they had of those behaviors.

Beltrán joined the Yankees in 2014. The Athletic reported that by no later than 2015, the Yankees were decoding signs in their video room — a scheme the 2017-18 Astros also undertook but was not considered by MLB to be as egregious as the trash-can scheme. More specifics of the Yankees’ conduct in at least some of the time Beltrán was a member of the team could become public depending on the outcome of a Yankees petition to a federal appeals court.

Beltrán said he cooperated “a hundred percent” with MLB’s investigation. When MLB announced a public summary of its investigative findings, Beltrán was named in the report. None of the other 2017 Astros players were named. Beltrán, at that point in 2020, had been named the Mets’ new manager.

“The part that bothered me about that is that, you know, when I sit down to cooperate with them (MLB), they said to me, ‘We’re not going against the players. We’re going against…field personnel, front office and organization,’” Beltrán said. “And the fact that I’m the only player named in that report?

“That’s the part that I don’t understand. Everyone gets immunity except Carlos Beltrán? I don’t get it.”

Like all other 2017 Astros players, Beltrán did not receive a formal suspension from MLB.

Beltrán said he believed the championship had a stain on it.

“Yeah, there is because, you know what we did, and we all have taken responsibility and at some point we all have shown remorse about what we did,” he said.

 

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1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

Beltrán said that in starting the scheme, the Astros were trying to get up to speed with what they believed other teams to be doing.

“We felt that when teams are coming to our ballpark (Minute Maid Park), we felt that some teams have something going on,” Beltrán said. “So we felt that we needed to create our own (system), you know, and that’s what happened.”

Marvel Studios Reaction GIF by Disney+

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For Beau

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“I don’t know, man, Here’s the thing, and I’m going to give you my honest opinion: If the Astros were the only team doing it, then yeah. Give it back. Take it back. I know for a fact they weren’t,” said Sale on WEEI Monday morning. “All these people pointing fingers, well, hey, take a check in the mirror real quick. Make sure you and your team weren’t doing something.”

“And what they did was wrong, and I’m not trying to condone it. but, shoot, we’re talking five years ago now, and we’re still talking about this stuff. I’d like to kind of turn the page on it, but it happened, they dealt with it, there’s nothing you can really do about it now sitting here where we are, so you just kind of move on from it.”

And to be clear, the winking gif above was for the part where Beltran said he only felt like other teams were doing something when he knew damn well what he had been doing with the yankees previously

Edited by WBT
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  • 2 weeks later...

Steven Souza weighs in too…

https://www.chron.com/sports/astros/amp/Steven-Souza-Astros-cheating-sign-stealing-Dodgers-17074845.php
 

Spoiler

Add outfielder Steven Souza to the growing list of players who say the Astros weren’t the only team cheating in 2017. Souza would be in a position to know what was going on around the league, since he has played for five different big league clubs in his seven seasons in the majors.
 

“I know you don’t wanna hear this but those Astro guys are actually some really good human beings over there,” Souza responded on Twitter.
 

A fan sarcastically replied the Astros probably are nice guys when they aren’t cheating, to which Souza replied, “I’m not going to get into to all that but you should know that if you think Houston was the only team with a sign stealing system you’re dead wrong.”
 

“I hear you but if you only knew how many teams were doing it you wouldn’t be as mad at Jose Altuve,” Souza replied.

“I’m not even talking about teams I played on, I’m talking about more than half the league,” Souza said.

A fan asked Souza if any of the other teams he says were cheating were using technology like the Astros and Red Sox.

“Yep,” Souza simply replied.

 

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Beau Vine is a good poster but his position here is bad. Let's keep in mind he cheers for a team that literally illegally hacked into the computer system of their division rival who, by the way, happens to be the same team he can't let go of here. So it's not surprising he takes all the information out this week about this 5 year old sign stealing "scandal" and somehow misses multiple players from multiple organizations confirming what everyone already knew but many pretend not to know about most of the league stealing signs. 

It's okay, I'm irrationally dumb about a rival, too (Oklahoma). The difference is my hatred is righteous. 

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On 4/13/2022 at 9:45 AM, Hank Chinaski said:

Steven Souza weighs in too…

https://www.chron.com/sports/astros/amp/Steven-Souza-Astros-cheating-sign-stealing-Dodgers-17074845.php
 

  Hide contents

Add outfielder Steven Souza to the growing list of players who say the Astros weren’t the only team cheating in 2017. Souza would be in a position to know what was going on around the league, since he has played for five different big league clubs in his seven seasons in the majors.
 

“I know you don’t wanna hear this but those Astro guys are actually some really good human beings over there,” Souza responded on Twitter.
 

A fan sarcastically replied the Astros probably are nice guys when they aren’t cheating, to which Souza replied, “I’m not going to get into to all that but you should know that if you think Houston was the only team with a sign stealing system you’re dead wrong.”
 

“I hear you but if you only knew how many teams were doing it you wouldn’t be as mad at Jose Altuve,” Souza replied.

“I’m not even talking about teams I played on, I’m talking about more than half the league,” Souza said.

A fan asked Souza if any of the other teams he says were cheating were using technology like the Astros and Red Sox.

“Yep,” Souza simply replied.

 

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