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The Robert Mueller Investigation


Hugo Stiglitz

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18 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

I think by "correct" he means to redact everything in there that they feel would be under the umbrella of a vague executive privilege.  I linked an article last night that spelled out this potential strategy. 

I think that makes a lot of sense and helps explain the Trump WH hiring of 17 "real lawyers" this week.

Apart from the tack of EP, interference by Acting AG, new AG, etc., the best insurance to limit legal meddling AND getting the meat of the report out is through sealed indictments. 

Currently, Trump is implicated by SDNY as "Individual 1" in the felony indictment of Cohen as the individual who knowingly ordered Cohen to commit said felony.  Trump is a de facto co-conspirator in a felony for which Cohen is about to serve time in prison.  Right there, in plain view.  Now imagine a ream of unsealed indictments getting unsealed which take down most everyone around him including family members in a conspiracy to defraud the US, with Trump appearing throughout many of them as an unnamed unindicted co-conspirator.  The depth of detail in the indictments could essentially render The Report inconsequential.  And pardons ?  Trump pardoning everyone for crimes in which he appears as a co-conspirator ?  

Trump's obstruction of justice probe will likely include evidence related to repeated public messaging involving implied pardon or clemency for co-conspirators to "be strong" and to not cooperate.  How will his pardon power be implemented when he attempts to follow through with the very act for which may be accused to obstruct justice?

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And just to emphasize my last post, once a Grand Jury hands down those indictments and they are signed and sealed, my understanding is that only a Judge can quash or eliminate them - with good cause.  Neither Trump, nor any AG, can stop it.  It's too late now, and likely been too late since the Spring of 2017 when Grand Juries were empaneled at EDVA and DC and well underway hearing evidence in these related matters.

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I posted this in the Trump thread, but it’s interesting in light of Trump hiring a bunch of attorneys.  

Trump is putting a helluva lot of energy into The Wall and the shutdown  (and he’s willing to make life hell on Republicans in Congress)  

Meanwhile, he’s almost completely clammed up about Mueller, at least directly.

I think the two are related.   He is deliberately manufacturing a crisis, while talking less and less about the investigation.  

While he retweeted himself on the 6th about the investigation, you have to go back to the 5th to find him directly saying anything “new” about it.  So 5-6 days depending on your view, since he ranted about Mueller.  

That seems like a long time for him not to rant about the investigation, especially just as serious shit about Manafort, etc. is coming to light.  

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2 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I posted this in the Trump thread, but it’s interesting in light of Trump hiring a bunch of attorneys.  

Trump is putting a helluva lot of energy into The Wall and the shutdown  (and he’s willing to make life hell on Republicans in Congress)   

Seems like he's wanting to try his hand at some bona fide authoritarian tactics. I guess you could say that's most of what his presidency has been about, but it seems to be intensifying.

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8 minutes ago, retread said:

Seems like he's wanting to try his hand at some bona fide authoritarian tactics. I guess you could say that's most of what his presidency has been about, but it seems to be intensifying.

He'd have to stage a coup against his own military and intelligence agencies.  Not going to happen by a bunch of aging, gravity challenged Anglos.  If they were up for effort, they'd have degrees and shit.  Not to say you have to be competent to fire a gun but you do have to be competent enough not to shoot yourself or fellow gorillas. 

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4 hours ago, Chooky said:

That seems like a new precedent for being "soft on crime."  Maybe every criminal should be allowed to correct any charge being brought by a county, state or federal prosecutor.  From now on if someone gets drunk and goes on a vandalism spree they should be able to modify the language in their charge by changing the description from "smashed windows and spray painted 'fart' on a Chevy Tahoe" to "accidentally bumped windows with a steel pipe and indulged in perfectly legal artistic expression and the canvas just happened to be Dave's Tahoe." 

 

3 hours ago, Jiggy-Z said:

Yeah well, "Dave" had it coming.

 

2 hours ago, SameSame said:

Dave's not here man

Rep all around. You guys should write and perform as a team.

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18 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I posted this in the Trump thread, but it’s interesting in light of Trump hiring a bunch of attorneys.  

Trump is putting a helluva lot of energy into The Wall and the shutdown  (and he’s willing to make life hell on Republicans in Congress)  

Meanwhile, he’s almost completely clammed up about Mueller, at least directly.

I think the two are related.   He is deliberately manufacturing a crisis, while talking less and less about the investigation.  

While he retweeted himself on the 6th about the investigation, you have to go back to the 5th to find him directly saying anything “new” about it.  So 5-6 days depending on your view, since he ranted about Mueller.  

That seems like a long time for him not to rant about the investigation, especially just as serious shit about Manafort, etc. is coming to light.  

So you're saying his new team of lawyers told him to stfu and he's actually doing it?  Dayam..

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10 minutes ago, retread said:

Seems like he's wanting to try his hand at some bona fide authoritarian tactics. I guess you could say that's most of what his presidency has been about, but it seems to be intensifying.

Why now, why this?  If anything, it’s going to hurt his construction buddies.  And could hurt agriculture big time. 

And why hasn’t he been going after Mueller with everything coming out?

The whole thing reeks of a distraction. 

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3 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

So you're saying his new team of lawyers told him to stfu and he's actually doing it?  Dayam..

That’s what it seems like.  Maybe somebody got through to him that he’s either hurting himself (politically or legally), or maybe somebody pointed out that he’s drawing his followers’ attention to things he may not want them looking too far into.  

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9 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

That’s what it seems like.  Maybe somebody got through to him that he’s either hurting himself (politically or legally), or maybe somebody pointed out that he’s drawing his followers’ attention to things he may not want them looking too far into.  

Or he's scared shitless. 

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4 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Why now, why this?  If anything, it’s going to hurt his construction buddies.  And could hurt agriculture big time. 

And why hasn’t he been going after Mueller with everything coming out?

The whole thing reeks of a distraction. 

I’ve been trying to explain for a while and it looks like you’re starting to get it. 

Trump is on the run for his life.

When you are facing certain death you don’t give a shit about your long term political or financial future.  You are trying to avoid death.  You will do anything to save yourself.  You will act irrationally and if you’re a malignant narcissist like Trump, you will hurt as many people necessary to save yourself. 

It’s confusing to all of us on the outside because we don’t know for certain what is coming but Trump does and he’s terrified because he’s never been held accountable in his life.  

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2 hours ago, triplehorn said:

Veselnitskaya is unlikely ever to return to the United States.

These goddamn Russian names are going to get Trump off the hook. 

Quote

Businessman Yevgeny Prigozhin was among those indicted by Mueller on February 16, 2018.

Quote

The defendants included 12 other Russian citizens, all of whom were identified as former IRA employees who played a role in Russian influence operations before, during, and after the 2016 election.

They are: Mikhail Bystrov, Mikhail Burchik, Aleksandra Krylova, Sergey Polozov, Anna Bogacheva, Maria Bovda, Robert Bovda, Dzheykhun Aslanov, Vadim Podkopaev, Gleb Vasilchenko, Irina Kaverzina, and Vladimir Venkov.

Quote

He’d been the chief political strategist to the man who became the president of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych, with whom he’d developed a highly personal relationship. Manafort would swim naked with his boss outside his banya, play tennis with him at his palace 

Meanwhile, a Russian oligarch named Oleg Deripaska had been after Manafort to explain what had happened to an $18.9 million investment in a Ukrainian company that Manafort had claimed to have made on his behalf.

Every time you learn one Russian name, it's cancelled out by the next one. It would be easier to remember Boris1, Boris2, Boris3, and Natasha6. The news media don't even like to use their names and prefer Russian oligarch or Russian operative. 

Trump will announce that the witch hunt is intentionally confusing everyone with phony Russian names that nobody can remember in order to pursue their phony investigation. NO COLLUSION with phony Russians. Mueller is a sham.

Trump's success will be the crowning victory in the ascendance of Idiot World.

 

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8 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

he’s terrified because he’s never been held accountable in his life.  

This is massively important.  For 72 years he has been able to literally get away with anything.  No one on this board has ever experienced the world in the way he has and now he is going to face some amazing consequences.  His brain can't handle a normal day, let alone the shit that is coming down the pike.  I'm still hoping for a Warden Norton ending.

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11 minutes ago, Jack Straw said:

Trump will never be held accountable.  Unless “not being re-elected” is accountability to you.  It isn’t to me.  And even that is far from a certainty.  

There are things worse than prison for Trump.  His worst fear is public humiliation and being exposed as a complete fraud.  

That’s why he won’t release his tax returns and why he was furious when Obama humiliated him at the corespondents dinner. 

It’s also why he demands loyalty.  As long as he has powerful subordinates loyal to him, his worst nightmare of being reduced to the insignificance of your average criminal will never be realized.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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14 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

There are things worse than prison for Trump.  His worst fear is public humiliation and being exposed as a complete fraud.  

That’s why he won’t release his tax returns and why he was furious when Obama humiliated him at the corespondents dinner. 

It’s also why he demands loyalty.  As long as he has powerful subordinates loyal to him, his worst nightmare of being reduced to the insignificance of your average criminal will never be realized.

Questioning his wealth was reportedly the only thing that was off limits during his Comedy Central Roast. Like telling Ron Burgundy his hair looks stupid.

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1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

Why now, why this?  If anything, it’s going to hurt his construction buddies.  And could hurt agriculture big time. 

And why hasn’t he been going after Mueller with everything coming out?

The whole thing reeks of a distraction. 

He started off as a reluctant president with the mind of a 10 year old. He may have other mental deficits associated with getting old. Plus he's a narcissist/psychopath. How do you explain any of his actions? It's a presidency run by Cheeto's amygdala.

He has come close to crossing a serious line before when he almost fired Mueller (McGahn talked him out of it). If he declares a natl emergency, to me it signals that he has chosen a much more dangerous course. Up to now, his presidency has been about killing time or running the clock out on Mueller. Now he's going on the offensive.

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1 hour ago, Jack Straw said:

Trump will never be held accountable.  Unless “not being re-elected” is accountability to you.  It isn’t to me.  And even that is far from a certainty.  

What Hugo says below is pretty much what i was thinking.

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

There are things worse than prison for Trump.  His worst fear is public humiliation and being exposed as a complete fraud.  

That’s why he won’t release his tax returns and why he was furious when Obama humiliated him at the corespondents dinner. 

It’s also why he demands loyalty.  As long as he has powerful subordinates loyal to him, his worst nightmare of being reduced to the insignificance of your average criminal will never be realized.

The only powerful subordinates he has are powerful because of his position as POTUS right?  Without that, and with exposure, seems a lot of those hangers on will keep a distance. 

22 minutes ago, retread said:

He started off as a reluctant president with the mind of a 10 year old. He may have other mental deficits associated with getting old. Plus he's a narcissist/psychopath. How do you explain any of his actions? It's a presidency run by Cheeto's amygdala.

He has come close to crossing a serious line before when he almost fired Mueller (McGahn talked him out of it). If he declares a natl emergency, to me it signals that he has chosen a much more dangerous course. Up to now, his presidency has been about killing time or running the clock out on Mueller. Now he's going on the offensive.

All he ever wanted was attention.  He didn't want the office, but he the Russians saw a great tool in him to cause a lot of strife in our country.  They would have continued to use him outside the office, but inside worked out better.  They don't give a shit if he comes across to us as crazy, as long as he keeps everything in a state of agitated flux, so no one realizes what's going on behind the scenes. 

And in his mind, his base and his Russian handlers are the only ones he feels have his back, and he has been working towards more authoritarian governance from day one.  Since the American people are too stupid to realize his supreme intelligence, then he just has to force things, like giving us cod liver oil.  And the russians keep feeding his narcissism.

I just don't know how things will happen if he declares a national emergency?   Will it put imminent domain in place instead of arbitration for property?  Does it bring in the Corps of Engineers to start building the thing next month?   Troops to the border?   I hear a lot about the national emergency move, but like he always does, he says something then walks it back, depending on response.  

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2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I posted this in the Trump thread, but it’s interesting in light of Trump hiring a bunch of attorneys.  

Trump is putting a helluva lot of energy into The Wall and the shutdown  (and he’s willing to make life hell on Republicans in Congress)  

Meanwhile, he’s almost completely clammed up about Mueller, at least directly.

I think the two are related.   He is deliberately manufacturing a crisis, while talking less and less about the investigation.  

While he retweeted himself on the 6th about the investigation, you have to go back to the 5th to find him directly saying anything “new” about it.  So 5-6 days depending on your view, since he ranted about Mueller.  

That seems like a long time for him not to rant about the investigation, especially just as serious shit about Manafort, etc. is coming to light.  

My wife asked why the sudden crazy about the wall and my answer was, to rally his base to him before Mueller drops the bomb.

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Here's my hot take.  

Trump resigns between now and Feb 7th.  He will cut a deal to walk away as long as the Muller Investigation doesn't go public to save his own skin.  Excuse made will be that he can't effectively govern because obstructionists Democrats in the House won't negotiate in good faith with him.

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3 minutes ago, UncleCharlie said:

Here's my hot take.  

Trump resigns between now and Feb 7th.  He will cut a deal to walk away as long as the Muller Investigation doesn't go public to save his own skin.  Excuse made will be that he can't effectively govern because obstructionists Democrats in the House won't negotiate in good faith with him.

And we can’t let that happen.  That will only make him a maga martyr.

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11 minutes ago, UncleCharlie said:

Here's my hot take.  

Trump resigns between now and Feb 7th.  He will cut a deal to walk away as long as the Muller Investigation doesn't go public to save his own skin.  Excuse made will be that he can't effectively govern because obstructionists Democrats in the House won't negotiate in good faith with him.

He can't cut a deal on state charges.  He resigns, his bogus business empire is fucked and he has no protection again the state pen.  Unless he's planning on fleeing the country, which I think is his only out in the long run, he has to keep his position as POTUS.  It's the only thing keeping his family out of jail and the money flowing into the coffers right now.  

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Do I have it correct to assume that the Mueller report to Congress would basically be a description of the bombs, as they've already been released from the hatch and are falling to Earth? 

In other words, everything safely tucked away in the sealed indictments, and the report would simply summarize the why? 

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1 hour ago, LongestHorn said:

Breaking news?  Nothing in there that wasn’t reported at the time.  

Initial Mueller mandate: "to ensure a full and thorough investigation of the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election."

 

Evidence driven call revealed today:  FBI opened an inquiry into whether Trump was secretly working on behalf of Russia.  

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Planet Houston said:

Trump is so fucked. This is a long twitter thread, but worth the read  

 

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I’ve been saying for a while everyone was overly focused on the criminal side of the investigation which made it easy to forget this whole thing was a COUNTERINTELLIGENCE investigation FIRST.  

 

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