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So, back to that legalization thing


Longhorn_Fan68

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Now that we don't have an AG that beats off to stills of Reefer Madness and J. Edgar Hoover in drag, and knowing the Prez and VP both campaigned saying they were in favor of legalization, I hope this becomes a topic of discussion again soon. I won't rehash (intended) all the reason it's good policy. This article basically does it for me:

 

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27 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

Now that we don't have an AG that beats off to stills of Reefer Madness and J. Edgar Hoover in drag, and knowing the Prez and VP both campaigned saying they were in favor of legalization, I hope this becomes a topic of discussion again soon. I won't rehash (intended) all the reason it's good policy. This article basically does it for me:

 

BUT.....it sharply limits the bases for arresting and imprisoning negroes, so, you know.......can't do THAT.  Rest assured that the GQP on every level will oppose this in a fight to the death.  After all, if you don't turn a huge chunk of black males into convicted criminals for smoking dope, then they might retain the right to vote, and we sure can't have that.

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4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

BUT.....it sharply limits the bases for arresting and imprisoning negroes, so, you know.......can't do THAT.  Rest assured that the GQP on every level will oppose this in a fight to the death.  After all, if you don't turn a huge chunk of black males into convicted criminals for smoking dope, then they might retain the right to vote, and we sure can't have that.

Also red states don't want the extra revenue.  They don't even want the free money from the government through the ARP because then they can't use the pandemic as a reason to cut services for poor people and minorities.  Gotta starve the beast and then gut the government so you can campaign on how ineffective it is. 

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4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

There's no reason whatsoever not to completely legalize cannabis in all forms unless you are just hellbent on being a priggish dick.

This pretty much encapsulates the thoughts I have on this. There is no valid reason, at all, for anyone to not want it legalized. Get this done and move onto the next bill that needs to be passed.

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3 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

This pretty much encapsulates the thoughts I have on this. There is no valid reason, at all, for anyone to not want it legalized. Get this done and move onto the next bill that needs to be passed.

Why do you want to kill the children?!!??! /TheGOP

Probably so you can harvest their blood to fulfill your immortality!!!11!! /theGQP

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I get the commentary around the GOP never legalizing pot because they aren't good business people and engage in anti-pot culture war for some anachronistic reason, but what is the reasoning for being bullish on a Biden/Harris regime legalizing pot federally?

I could be missing it, but did Biden, an old white guy who participated in fighting against black folks in the War on Drugs as a legislator, come out and publicly have a change of heart and express his advocacy and desire to legalize pot? Kamala the cop and DA who busted low level pot crimes for a living and perpetuated the institutionalized racism that is the War on Drugs and vicious cycle of single-mother homes and poverty? Has she come out and said, "My bad, pardons all around for all the low level dealers and the hundred dolla billers, let's legalize this plant!"

I'm just seeing this seems like something they wouldn't want to touch on politically right now as the states are doing a fine job of opening up the markets and legalizing (and decriminalizing) themselves, so Biden/Harris would want to stay away and avoid any political blowback to them.

Edited by DonkeyCigars
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The reasons for draconian marijuana laws can be found in "Reefer Madness," Nixon's admitted motivations for launching the "War on Drugs," and in arrest stats from just the past few years.  Even though minorities and white people indulge in pot at about the same rate....

Quote

New Yorkers of color –– the vast majority Black and Latino –– were hit with 94% of the pot-related arrests and summonses in 2020, according to an analysis of NYPD data by The Legal Aid Society.

About 57% of people who were arrested for marijuana were Black and 35.7% of them Latino, analysis showed. Meanwhile the city’s population is about 24% Black and 29% Latino, according to the Census Bureau.

“The data affirm that New Yorkers of color are still overwhelmingly shouldering the brunt of the NYPD’s racist marijuana enforcement while other communities get a free pass,” Anthony Posada, supervising attorney with the Community Justice Unit at The Legal Aid Society, said in a statement.

Marijuana laws were and remain a proxy for racist use of laws against minorities.  A white kid gets busted with pot (if he even gets busted) has a much better shot of having the cop call his parents, because he's got a bright future and whatnot.  A black kid gets busted....and he's in cuffs.  We can pretend that marijuana laws are for something different....but they're really not.

Nevermind the fact that for EVERYONE, marijuana laws are a complete end-around on the 4th amendment.  Any cop, anywhere, any time, can enter your home or car, all he has to do is write on the report "based on my years of experience and training, I smelled the distinct odor of marijuana...."  And now everything you own is getting searched.  It's a bullshit excuse and a lie, and it's killed the 4th amendment.

Edited by Brisketexan
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6 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

What’s the current state count anyway? Seems like a majority are pro

edit found it 

image.jpeg.ca335d7005243237ff384825bc422323.jpeg

 

without looking it up, I'm betting all of the states showing as illegal are ones who have had R-controlled state gov'ts for a while now

Edited by Longhorn_Fan68
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6 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

without looking it up, I'm betting all of the states showing as illegal are ones who have had R-controlled state gov'ts for a while now

Pretty much, surprises are LA, OK, AR

It’s only matter of time before it’s legal everywhere. But Rs will drag their feet as long as possible because Jesus and think of the children 

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2 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Pretty much, surprises are LA, OK, AR

It’s only matter of time before it’s legal everywhere. But Rs will drag their feet as long as possible because Jesus and think of the children 

Which are, as always, cover for their real reasons.

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10 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

South Dakota approved medicinal with something like 70% of the vote and full adult rec use with 54%. Medicinal is being delayed and Noem is fucking around with adult use.

That’s because republicans don’t approve when the votes go against them 

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8 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Pretty much, surprises are LA, OK, AR

It’s only matter of time before it’s legal everywhere. But Rs will drag their feet as long as possible because Jesus and think of the children 

FLA surprised me too.  Don't get to say that very often.

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49 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I could be missing it, but did Biden, an old white guy who participated in fighting against black folks in the War on Drugs as a legislator, come out and publicly have a change of heart and express his advocacy and desire to legalize pot? Kamala the cop and DA who busted low level pot crimes for a living and perpetuated the institutionalized racism that is the War on Drugs and vicious cycle of single-mother homes and poverty? Has she come out and said, "My bad, pardons all around for all the low level dealers and the hundred dolla billers, let's legalize this plant!"

I'm just seeing this seems like something they wouldn't want to touch on politically right now as the states are doing a fine job of opening up the markets and legalizing (and decriminalizing) themselves, so Biden/Harris would want to stay away and avoid any political blowback to them.

 

These are actually legit points.  I think Harris is a political chameleon and will go with the prevailing winds.   Not sure on Biden.   Will the House and Senate actually act on it now that they have the majority?  The cynical among us may note that it is pretty easy to craft bills when you know that you have a built in excuse for them not passing.

 

Edited by MC Fresh Breath
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This week I got the call that another childhood friend and neighbor from my now college aged daughter’s kindergarten cohort OD’d and died. Opiates are the suspected cause.

He spent so many days and nights at our house when they were kids. I know his parents and siblings. Now they’re broken.

Irrespective of legalization, I wish the relative toxicity of intoxicants was a better discussed topic. Opiates can easily kill on any given night. If you are adult, you’ve seen plenty of alcohol-related deaths too. While not benign, that is probably not something that will occur with weed. Seems like need-to-know information.

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2 minutes ago, Degenerate Gardner said:

This week I got the call that another childhood friend and neighbor from my now college aged daughter’s kindergarten cohort OD’d and died. Opiates are the suspected cause.

He spent so many days and nights at our house when they were kids. I know his parents and siblings. Now they’re broken.

Irrespective of legalization, I wish the relative toxicity of intoxicants was a better discussed topic. Opiates can easily kill on any given night. If you are adult, you’ve seen plenty of alcohol-related deaths too. While not benign, that is probably not something that will occur with weed. Seems like need-to-know information.

It's not something that occurs with weed.

And substance abuse, and use of dangerous substances, absolutely IS an important issue.  It's a public health issue.  And should be treated as such.  We don't want ANYONE taking opiates recreationally, and certainly don't want anyone OD'ing.  But our criminalization approach has done jack shit to limit those problems.  In fact, it's been counter-productive in that it has created numerous negative effects and outcomes.

Take the criminal law apparatus we have deployed against drugs and use them for a public health approach to drugs and alcohol.  That approach has a much better success rate.  BUT, know and accept that we will always have users, abusers, addicts, and ODs.  Because we're human.

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53 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I could be missing it, but did Biden, an old white guy who participated in fighting against black folks in the War on Drugs as a legislator, come out and publicly have a change of heart and express his advocacy and desire to legalize pot? Kamala the cop and DA who busted low level pot crimes for a living and perpetuated the institutionalized racism that is the War on Drugs and vicious cycle of single-mother homes and poverty? Has she come out and said, "My bad, pardons all around for all the low level dealers and the hundred dolla billers, let's legalize this plant!"

 

They’ve both come out in favor of decriminalization.  Biden did it during the campaign.  He can use his executive order power to reschedule it so it’s not illegal 

Also marijuana convictions went down every year under Harris’ AG tenure so check your facts.  Kudos for blaming the black lady for perpetuating the War on Drugs that your party started and continues to use to ruin peoples’ lives. Keep your “Kamala the cop” misinformation for your Facebook buddies. 

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I don't know how you would track it, but how many people didn't lose their job in legal states because they don't test for weed any more. 

Your choice. You can either have OTR trucker drink and pop pills or smoke weed after they get off the road. Same for the construction crew. Coal miners. How many more blue collar workers are having to keep a stash of urine to keep a job?

Without a hint of irony, Elvis went to visit Nixon to see if he could help out with his war on drugs.

 

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^^^^^^^^^

That's not all totally correct.  You can have alcohol which is legal virtually everywhere in the US, but if you have a work related accident or injury, most employers are drug/ alcohol testing you.  If you test positive, you gone...

That's where i probably differ from many on here.   I'm all about legalizing it to help alleviate the "get tough on crime" horseshit.  That being said, it doesn't make everything else with regard to behavior and use of said substance all hunky dory. In states where pot is legal, a DOT regulated driver doesn't have carte blanche to smoke bales of reefer.

Edited by slorch
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9 minutes ago, slorch said:

^^^^^^^^^

That's not all totally correct.  You can have alcohol which is legal virtually everywhere in the US, but if you have a work related accident or injury, most employers are drug/ alcohol testing you.  If you test positive, you gone...

That's where i probably differ from many on here.   I'm all about legalizing it to help alleviate the "get tough on crime" horseshit.  That being said, it doesn't make everything else with regard to behavior and use of said substance all hunky dory. In states where pot is legal, a DOT regulated driver doesn't have carte blanche to smoke bales of reefer.

No disagreement there.  Drugs and alcohol shouldn't be illegal.  But an employer should be able to require that you not do the, at least in the context of doing your job -- you can drink all you want, but you can't show up to fly a 737 drunk, can't drive a truck drunk, etc.  

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6 minutes ago, slorch said:

^^^^^^^^^

That's not all totally correct.  You can have alcohol which is legal virtually everywhere in the US, but if you have a work related accident or injury, most employers are drug/ alcohol testing you.  If you test positive, you gone...

That's where i probably differ from many on here.   I'm all about legalizing it to help alleviate the "get tough on crime" horseshit.  That being said, it doesn't make everything else with regard to behavior and use of said substance all hunky dory. In states where pot is legal, a DOT regulated driver doesn't have carte blanche to smoke bales of reefer.

That's fine. If you show up to the yard a mess you might lose your job. That's a given. Piss tests don't catch what you did last night in many cases unless it's weed. You're straight as an arrow this morning but you burned one last night. Tough shit. Beer drinker still has his job. Boss with two Ambien and a couple of fingers of scotch. He's fine too. Nobody tests him. But, Leroy is fucked because his number came up. 

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2 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

and beyond the recreational aspects, the legalization impact on the medical industry I don't think can be overstated.

That’s part of the problem as the makers of the synthetic drug Marinol will be quick to overstate. 

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No disagreement there.  Drugs and alcohol shouldn't be illegal.  But an employer should be able to require that you not do the, at least in the context of doing your job -- you can drink all you want, but you can't show up to fly a 737 drunk, can't drive a truck drunk, etc.  

b3dcd52f65cbd7029a22ceb439443808.jpg
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1 hour ago, cactusflinthead said:

That's fine. If you show up to the yard a mess you might lose your job. That's a given. Piss tests don't catch what you did last night in many cases unless it's weed. You're straight as an arrow this morning but you burned one last night. Tough shit. Beer drinker still has his job. Boss with two Ambien and a couple of fingers of scotch. He's fine too. Nobody tests him. But, Leroy is fucked because his number came up. 

Sorry.  I don't buy into the victimology.

You know the conditions of your employment.  Don't fuck up.  Not sure why that is so offensive/ threatening/ ominous.  It's fucking easy.

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9 hours ago, Js1 said:

 

 

Quote

 Keep your “Kamala the cop” misinformation for your Facebook buddies. 

 

I don't happen to do much on Facebook.  I do think  her past actions show troubling patterns that could definitely be considered "a cop."

 

https://dessalines.github.io/essays/socialism_faq#kamala-harris

 

How this impacts the discussion at hand I still cannot say.

Edited by MC Fresh Breath
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4 hours ago, Js1 said:

They’ve both come out in favor of decriminalization.  Biden did it during the campaign.  He can use his executive order power to reschedule it so it’s not illegal 

Also marijuana convictions went down every year under Harris’ AG tenure so check your facts.  Kudos for blaming the black lady for perpetuating the War on Drugs that your party started and continues to use to ruin peoples’ lives. Keep your “Kamala the cop” misinformation for your Facebook buddies. 

U sUrE 'bOuT dAt?

As a prosecutor, Harris oversaw more than 1,900 cannabis related convictions in San Francisco, which was higher than her predecessor.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/09/11/kamala-harris-prosecuting-marijuana-cases/

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6 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

BUT.....it sharply limits the bases for arresting and imprisoning negroes, so, you know.......can't do THAT.  Rest assured that the GQP on every level will oppose this in a fight to the death.  After all, if you don't turn a huge chunk of black males into convicted criminals for smoking dope, then they might retain the right to vote, and we sure can't have that.

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i would not want to be in the room when they go in dry no lube on the catastrophe.

there are only 2 ways to raise the cash, and neither alone will pay off the insurance industry.

it's happening.

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6 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

What’s the current state count anyway? Seems like a majority are pro

edit found it 

image.jpeg.ca335d7005243237ff384825bc422323.jpeg

 

This map is outdated and doesn’t take into account 2020 election results.

New Jersey, Montana, South Dakota, and Arizona all legalized adult use at the ballot box in 2020. South Dakota and Mississippi also legalized medicinal. Nebraska had its Supreme Court strike down a ballot initiative that would’ve let voters vote on medical.

Virginia legalized this year and now they’re trying to move up the timeline. I’d expect New Mexico and New York to legalize soon as well.

why does the gop fight this? Because they’re morons who like to vote no on everything. That party is a waste and I can’t believe people support the GOP. The gop literally doesn’t support anything except tax cuts for billionaires and millionaires.

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8 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

You are correct 

image.thumb.png.3f29e2656196e2f5557b4ad146f8b4cd.png

I'm not sure of the accuracy of that map. Wisconsin certainly does not have medical legalized because we are strangled by the GOP-dominated, most gerrymandered state legislature in the country. It fuckin sucks.

 

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10 hours ago, Royalfan5 said:

Once we get past weed, can we get on the stick with mushrooms too? Probably do us all some good to eat some and watch Muppet reruns after the past year

 

This.  We should have been past the weed issue years ago.  I'm surprised after Washington and Colorado every state didn't fall like dominos and start legalizing in the first couple of elections after.

We should be past the weed issue and talking about psychedelics, which like weed is also less harmful than alcohol and other hard drugs but has shown to have therapeutic benefits to many, including helping to alleviate addiction and depression if used in the proper setting.

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15 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I get the commentary around the GOP never legalizing pot because they aren't good business people and engage in anti-pot culture war for some anachronistic reason, but what is the reasoning for being bullish on a Biden/Harris regime legalizing pot federally?

I could be missing it, but did Biden, an old white guy who participated in fighting against black folks in the War on Drugs as a legislator, come out and publicly have a change of heart and express his advocacy and desire to legalize pot? Kamala the cop and DA who busted low level pot crimes for a living and perpetuated the institutionalized racism that is the War on Drugs and vicious cycle of single-mother homes and poverty? Has she come out and said, "My bad, pardons all around for all the low level dealers and the hundred dolla billers, let's legalize this plant!"

I'm just seeing this seems like something they wouldn't want to touch on politically right now as the states are doing a fine job of opening up the markets and legalizing (and decriminalizing) themselves, so Biden/Harris would want to stay away and avoid any political blowback to them.

As someone living in a state that's straight up hell bent in not legalizing it, and only borders one legal state (South Dakotans voted for it, but their GOP controlled government is trying to squash it all costs), the states aren't doing a great job here.

But I kind of agree with your point.  My biggest beef with Obama is that he basically did jack shit on the legalization front.  I don't see Biden/Harris doing much either, beyond not actively fighting it, which even Trump didn't really do.  Yeah, Sessions talked a big game, but he was out the door quickly and Barr spent so much time with his lips fixed to Trump's ass that he didn't put effort towards it either.

I would be surprised if Biden/Harris push for federal legalization.

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