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What, no Joe Manchin thread?


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10 hours ago, immortal13 said:

Crime is up, inflation is up, gas prices are up, product shortages, pandemic not "shut down". I mean yeah things are great. Good job, boys!

Well they broke into the Capitol with the last administration so crime hasn't reached those levels yet.  Need another billion dollar dollar tax cut to the wealthy to fight inflation, obviously, along with making payroll tax cuts permanent, and gas prices were already going up.  I mean, there's a lot of reasons Joe Biden is the current president and they began with the corruption of the last administration and current Republican leadership that name drops their loyalty to Trump every chance they get.  He's their new Reagan and god knows, Republicans campaigned on that name for decades.  

If Dems voted lock step with their party like Republicans do, this wouldn't be an issue.  Democrats did pass the vote in the House but don't have the votes in the Senate, since they only have the majority in name only.  Some of the Senate Dems campaigned on Dem values without actually voting for Dem values.  So yes, Manchin and Sinema should switch parties.  

But you know all of this already.  

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10 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

if you're still with him after Jan 6th, you're in it for trump and trump alone, because that man gives zero fucks about this nation and the constitution (and you)

They know this too, and they're working on securing state rights to overturn elections so Democracy was never a concern, or a value.  And when Republicans take it all, they will still blame Democrats for their deficits, same as Kansas and historically bankrupt red states, and they'll move to treat Democrats the same way as they do immigrants because authoritarianism.  If logic had anything to do with it, the last admin wouldn't have gotten started because hush money would've knocked out their leading candidate.  Arguing points where logic is suspended is pointless and Sisyphean.      

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9 minutes ago, Satchel said:

For Biden to have passed the two major bills that are a part of his larger legislative agenda is nothing short of miraculous.

In the first year, no less.  I have plenty of problems with Biden, but when you consider the circumstances, it's pretty good from a political machination perspective.

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12 minutes ago, Satchel said:

I believe the treachery of Manchin and Sinema will energize Democratic voters in advance of the midterms.

I think there's too much fatigue on the left.  The only issue I can imagine getting out the vote is increasing restrictions on abortion.

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53 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

Well they broke into the Capitol with the last administration so crime hasn't reached those levels yet.  Need another billion dollar dollar tax cut to the wealthy to fight inflation, obviously, along with making payroll tax cuts permanent, and gas prices were already going up.  I mean, there's a lot of reasons Joe Biden is the current president and they began with the corruption of the last administration and current Republican leadership that name drops their loyalty to Trump every chance they get.  He's their new Reagan and god knows, Republicans campaigned on that name for decades.  

If Dems voted lock step with their party like Republicans do, this wouldn't be an issue.  Democrats did pass the vote in the House but don't have the votes in the Senate, since they only have the majority in name only.  Some of the Senate Dems campaigned on Dem values without actually voting for Dem values.  So yes, Manchin and Sinema should switch parties.  

But you know all of this already.  

"But Trump!!!!"

Edited by immortal13
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2 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:


That energy will be wasted when they aren’t allowed to vote.

The more Republicans try to nullify the voting prowess of a growing Democratic electorate, the more determined Democrats will become. It happened in 2008 and will happen again.

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Just now, jimmyjazz said:

I think there's too much fatigue on the left.  The only issue I can imagine getting out the vote is increasing restrictions on abortion.

This.  I know my wife has pretty much checked out because it was too exhausting.  She'll still vote of course, but she hasn't followed any news in months, at least not in the way she did from 2016-2020.  Same with my most fervent democratic co-worker.  When you don't run on pure hate and self-loathing, it's hard to stay involved year after year.

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7 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

This.  I know my wife has pretty much checked out because it was too exhausting.  She'll still vote of course, but she hasn't followed any news in months, at least not in the way she did from 2016-2020.  Same with my most fervent democratic co-worker.  When you don't run on pure hate and self-loathing, it's hard to stay involved year after year.

As long as they are fired up next November, who cares?  The years long election cycles in this country are fucking stupid.

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I think there's too much fatigue on the left.  The only issue I can imagine getting out the vote is increasing restrictions on abortion.

When that child tax money stops hitting accounts in a few weeks, that should get democrats energized. A family with two kids gets $500 - $600 a month. That’s serious money to a whole lot of Americans that is now gone.
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The more Republicans try to nullify the voting prowess of a growing Democratic electorate, the more determined Democrats will become. It happened in 2008 and will happen again.

This is the problem. Democrats think change is made with elections. Real change is made between the elections while holding office.
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43 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:


When that child tax money stops hitting accounts in a few weeks, that should get democrats energized. A family with two kids gets $500 - $600 a month. That’s serious money to a whole lot of Americans that is now gone.

My understanding was the child tax money was just a pre-payment, in 6 smaller chunks monthly, of what you would have gotten anyways in the spring as part of your tax return.

If I am correct about the above, then why would anyone be upset or energized unless the prevailing mood is that the child tax credit per child is not enough as it stands currently?

The only two logical answers are 1) I don't understand the child tax money that is coming monthly correctly or 2) the general public doesn't understand this money is a recoverable draw. If it's the latter, I think the energy is going to be the opposite of what you think it will be, and where it will be directed and the blame will go, once spring comes around and there is no anticipated "windfall" that people have been trained to expect.

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12 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

I’d give you my honest and accurate opinion of you since it’s obvious.  I don’t want to be that mean though.  

Would you like me to give my honest and accurate opinion of you since it’s obvious? I have no problem being mean though. 

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1 hour ago, Satchel said:

The more Republicans try to nullify the voting prowess of a growing Democratic electorate, the more determined Democrats will become. It happened in 2008 and will happen again.

The portion of the electorate being “suppressed” or “nullified” already have the worst voter participation numbers without any suppression. There will be no measurable blowback. Only Obama was able to generate enthusiasm and greater voter turnout amongst them.

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My understanding was the child tax money was just a pre-payment, in 6 smaller chunks monthly, of what you would have gotten anyways in the spring as part of your tax return.
If I am correct about the above, then why would anyone be upset or energized unless the prevailing mood is that the child tax credit per child is not enough as it stands currently?
The only two logical answers are 1) I don't understand the child tax money that is coming monthly correctly or 2) the general public doesn't understand this money is a recoverable draw. If it's the latter, I think the energy is going to be the opposite of what you think it will be, and where it will be directed and the blame will go, once spring comes around and there is no anticipated "windfall" that people have been trained to expect.

Both answers are applicable. I can see your windfall point. There are a whole lot of others that don’t have a clue how it all works and all they know is that the $300+ a month is gone and the Republicans + Manchin are to blame.
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11 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:


Both answers are applicable. I can see your windfall point. There are a whole lot of others that don’t have a clue how it all works and all they know is that the $300+ a month is gone and the Republicans + Manchin are to blame.

So people are going to be mad at politicians because they don't understand how things work. The exact same issue with people mad at Biden because they don't understand how things, like gas prices, work. But in this instance it's a good thing people will be energized because it works in the favor of the right team?

Ultimately I think this child tax issue is an interesting one on its own, because of the recoverable draw nature of it. Sure people might wrongly (but since perception is reality, rightly to them) associate their free money being taken away by Republicans + Manchin, but the other side of that coin is come March or April when these same people are expecting $5k and get $500, they are going to howl at Biden (even though it won't be his fault).

Edited by MonkeyCigarette
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23 hours ago, immortal13 said:

The need of fossil fuels will only end through technological advancement free of government interference

Sorry I haven't been keeping up too much with CR lately, but wanted you to go a bit more in depth on this for me. Would government funded research money akin to NASA in the 60s not have a positive impact on the technological advancement of clean energy?

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3 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Sorry I haven't been keeping up too much with CR lately, but wanted you to go a bit more in depth on this for me. Would government funded research money akin to NASA in the 60s not have a positive impact on the technological advancement of clean energy?

Also, I'd like immortal to explain how fossil fuels came to rule the world free of government interference.

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2 hours ago, Macklemore said:

The portion of the electorate being “suppressed” or “nullified” already have the worst voter participation numbers without any suppression. There will be no measurable blowback. Only Obama was able to generate enthusiasm and greater voter turnout amongst them.

I guess you missed the 2020 election. Or maybe meth leads to memory issues.

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15 hours ago, MonkeyCigarette said:

If all the above is accurate, why have we not heard any outcry or activism from the progressive wing that was wanting all this stuff in the first place from point 1? At least I haven't seen or heard any political fire from those folks.

i guess you didn't look in the most obvious place.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

oh, well, if Nate Silver said it then it must be true

also, love the false equivalence of "this plan is barely popular to the majority nationwide so it can't be possible that people in one state hold it more favorably." no one wonder takes him seriously

The downfall of Nate Silver has been quite spectacular.

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22 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

there is nothing stopping Biden from tackling each issue one at a time.

except for that whole pesky reconciliation can only be used so many times thing.  oh, and whipping votes takes time anyway. 

i guess you could take an afternoon to vote on every single little piece and let the republicans bloc vote no on every single one and not pass anything because the senate is *still* structured to protect slavery even though that's been illegal for over 130 years.  so, yay?

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48 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

 

What is most interesting about all this polling is most of the people that are against a bill like this have no idea why they are against it or what is in it.  They are just told by right wing media it is bad for them.  A lot of what is in the bill actually would help many of the people that are supposedly opposed to its passage.  The truth is that our country is made up of mostly unintelligent morons and that is what will be the ultimate downfall of the US.  

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3 hours ago, MonkeyCigarette said:

My understanding was the child tax money was just a pre-payment, in 6 smaller chunks monthly, of what you would have gotten anyways in the spring as part of your tax return.

If I am correct about the above, then why would anyone be upset or energized unless the prevailing mood is that the child tax credit per child is not enough as it stands currently?

The only two logical answers are 1) I don't understand the child tax money that is coming monthly correctly or 2) the general public doesn't understand this money is a recoverable draw. If it's the latter, I think the energy is going to be the opposite of what you think it will be, and where it will be directed and the blame will go, once spring comes around and there is no anticipated "windfall" that people have been trained to expect.

it's half up front and half when you file.  the credit also increased from $2,000 to $3,600 or $3,000 depending on the age of the child.

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/advance-child-tax-credit-payments-in-2021

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/2021-child-tax-credit-and-advance-child-tax-credit-payments-topic-c-calculation-of-the-2021-child-tax-credit

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18 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

This is absurd and gaslighting.  The democrats have moved much, much further from the center in the last 20 years than the GOP.  They have to play games to keep Bernie from winning the nomination.  
 

Whatever.  Works for me.  The batshit left wokeists are about to create the biggest red wave that’s ever been seen.  

For people like me, it's not about right or left, it's about Republicans debasing themselves to Trump, to the detriment of the nation.

It is also about taking their policies from "disparate impact" discrimination to "intentional, invidious discrimination."  The GQP is about one election away from just running around screaming about n*ggers and sp*cs taking your shit, they've already come mighty close and forget about the ragheads.

Because I can't go along with either of those, and the GQP isn't going to get serious about spending or taxes, or reining in the market, I might as well get on board with some progressive shit.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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7 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

For people like me, it's not about right or left, it's about Republicans debasing themselves to Trump, to the detriment of the nation.

It is also about taking their policies from "disparate impact" discrimination to "intentional, invidious discrimination."  The GQP is about one election away from just running around screaming about n*ggers and sp*cs taking your shit, they've already come mighty close and forget about the ragheads.

Because I can't go along with either of those, and the GQP isn't going to get serious about spending or taxes, or reining in the market, I might as well get on board with some progressive shit.

Except that this isn't a Trump thread, it's a Joe Manchin thread. 

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