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Cairn Horn88

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5 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

Lawyers just can't turn off the lawyer lying bullshit even when the bullshit is plainly obvious. 

 If the lie is so obvious, your smooth brain should have been able to point it out in a sentence or two.  But…no. 

 

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3 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Trump doesn't like that arrangement.  He insists on eating at Mar-a-Lago from the kitchen, directly.  The last few weeks, he's eating straight from his New York tower's executive cafe.  When you know what somebody will eat and when they will eat it, and they refuse Secret Service safety protocol....it's really not that complicated.  

Real question.  How do you know this?

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Are you under cover?  Because if you’re a cop, you have to tell me you’re a cop if I ask.  
 

Despite their insistence they switch things up, Trump likes to eat off the menus at his resorts and towers.  And they are worried as fuck about it.  
 

i have been questioned about where I got the wine and appetizer before breaking bread by federal officials.  They take food safety real serious for reasons i don’t ask about.  But apparently Trump doesn’t want to look weak but sending for takeout 

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7 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

 If the lie is so obvious, your smooth brain should have been able to point it out in a sentence or two.  But…no. 

 

You're just constantly full of shit. You've been here saying the whole thing is working exactly as it's supposed to when we have one judge intentionally delaying a trial in Florida and the fucking Supreme Court intentionally dragging their feet to delay his trial in DC. It's pure fucking corruption and I, for one, am tired of your constant bullshit. 

Just shut your lawyer cunt ass up already. 

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You're just constantly full of shit. You've been here saying the whole thing is working exactly as it's supposed to when we have one judge intentionally delaying a trial in Florida and the fucking Supreme Court intentionally dragging their feet to delay his trial in DC. It's pure fucking corruption and I, for one, am tired of your constant bullshit. 
Just shut your lawyer cunt ass up already. 

Link to Gator saying the WHOLE THING is working EXACTLY as it’s supposed to?
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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, scottsins said:


Link to Gator saying the WHOLE THING is working EXACTLY as it’s supposed to?

Also probably worth noting that lawdogs are pretty inured to delays.  It's one of those things you have to get used to when you start practicing.  And law students are already used to delays in that you wait an entire semester before getting any indication of a grade, in the usual case.

That doesn't mean we like it, and it's extremely unfortunate in these cases.  But it's just one of those "well, shit" things.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Also probably worth noting that lawdogs are pretty inured to delays.  It's one of those things you have to get used to when you start practicing.  And law students are already used to delays in that you wait an entire semester before getting any indication of a grade, in the usual case.

That doesn't mean we like it, and it's extremely unfortunate in these cases.  But it's just one of those "well, shit" things.

My position is that y'all have a big fucking blind spot to when something that is common and mundane is being weaponized to further injustice. Y'all act like it's just normal for nuclear secrets to be stolen and the trial delayed for years, simply because other trials are delayed, like sometimes, I guess. 

You're so used to seeing the sausage made, you're not worried about people dumping sawdust and ratshit into the product - bad trimmings make it in all the time and there's a rule against it or something. But heaven forbid we say "hey they're dumping rat shit in" without having ironclad proof, otherwise we're just being alarmist amirite??

Edited by Captainant
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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Captainant said:

My position is that y'all have a big fucking blind spot to when something that is common and mundane is being weaponized to further injustice. Y'all act like it's just normal for nuclear secrets to be stolen and the trial delayed for years, simply because other trials are delayed, like sometimes, I guess. 

You're so used to seeing the sausage made, you're not worried about people dumping sawdust and ratshit into the product - bad trimmings make it in all the time and there's a rule against it or something 

Well, because the outcome is usually as expected.  You learn to ignore the delay and focus on engaging in the process and getting the desired result.

And, let's face it, if, somehow, all of these cases were tried to verdict before the election, and the appeals exhausted, it wouldn't change a damn thing.

This idea that we're somehow normalizing crimes is complete bullshit.  There wouldn't be an indictment at all if that were normalized.  What we're doing is adjusting expectations to reflect the reality of the system, where trials inside of a year are an exception rather than the rule.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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8 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

And, let's face it, if, somehow, all of these cases were tried to verdict before the election, and the appeals exhausted, it wouldn't change a damn thing.

Expand on this. Because it doesn’t seem correct. 

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3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, because the outcome is usually as expected.  You learn to ignore the delay and focus on engaging in the process and getting the desired result.

And, let's face it, if, somehow, all of these cases were tried to verdict before the election, and the appeals exhausted, it wouldn't change a damn thing.

Maybe, maybe not. But the American people would know that Trump had been convicted of stealing top secret information.  There are very real and continued harms being done every day to the average American's perception of our justice system by all this bullshit and just dismissing those concerns as uninformed doesn't help your case. None of the way Trump's crimes have been investigated and prosecuted have actually gone by the book. They've been delayed by the vain political concerns of chickenshits who thought maybe if they just ignored it he'd go away, and by numerous and easily foreseeable corrupt actions of conservative public officials.  People are right to be pissed and as a functioning member of that system you should be pissed at the people who are destroying it, not those who are noticing the destruction. 

This is like the people who argued there was no point in Woodward quickly reporting that Trump knew in February 2020 that covid was airborne and would be catastrophic. I dunno man, I think millions of voters would've liked to have known that before the election. How the fuck am I consistently less cynical than most about the American public?

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Expand on this. Because it doesn’t seem correct. 

What would it change?  The base doesn't give a fuck about Trump's criminal problems, not one single fuck.  Think that would change if he was actually convicted, serving time? ELeCtiON InTERfeReNce! Maybe among some "independents," but I'd guess those that would be affected are already affected by the fact of the indictments and trials.

A startling number of voters are willing to accept this as politically motivated and the product of a "two-tiered" system.  Do you think convictions, even affirmed on appeal, would change any of that?

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Just now, TwiceHorn said:

What would it change?  The base doesn't give a fuck about Trump's criminal problems, not one single fuck.  Think that would change if he was actually convicted, serving time? ELeCtiON InTERfeReNce! Maybe among some "independents," but I'd guess those that would be affected are already affected by the fact of the indictments and trials.

 

As much as I’m on the Ledge, I do think if he were convicted and sentenced for the federal crimes he’s accused of committing, including stealing classified information and inciting and directing a coup to overturn an election, he would actually lose support among the “independents” and even some of the GOP voters.  And it would undoubtedly increase turnout for Biden. 

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2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Maybe, maybe not. But the American people would know that Trump had been convicted of stealing top secret information.  There are very real and continued harms being done every day to the average American's perception of our justice system by all this bullshit and just dismissing those concerns as uninformed doesn't help your case. None of the way Trump's crimes have been investigated and prosecuted have actually gone by the book. They've been delayed by the vain political concerns of chickenshits who thought maybe if they just ignored it he'd go away, and by numerous and easily foreseeable corrupt actions of conservative public officials.  People are right to be pissed and as a functioning member of that system you should be pissed at the people who are destroying it, not those who are noticing the destruction. 

This is like the people who argued there was no point in Woodward quickly reporting that Trump knew in February 2020 that covid was airborne and would be catastrophic. I dunno man, I think millions of voters would've liked to have known that before the election. How the fuck am I consistently less cynical than most about the American public?

I'm not dismissing them, but they are uninformed. 

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8 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

What would it change?  The base doesn't give a fuck about Trump's criminal problems, not one single fuck.  Think that would change if he was actually convicted, serving time? ELeCtiON InTERfeReNce! Maybe among some "independents," but I'd guess those that would be affected are already affected by the fact of the indictments and trials.

A startling number of voters are willing to accept this as politically motivated and the product of a "two-tiered" system.  Do you think convictions, even affirmed on appeal, would change any of that?

Yeah when you post shit like this it reads to me as if you're saying "there's no point in prosecuting him, so why bother?"

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Just now, Captainant said:

Yeah when you post shit like this it reads to me as if you're saying "there's no point in prosecuting him, so why bother?"

Not at all.  It's a simple acknowledgment of the fact that his base is fucking insane and the people knowledgeable enough to follow this (and complain about it) were never voting for him anyway.

 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

He got Cannon right and you didn't. What does that tell you about the value of your knowledge? 

No one really knows why Cannon is doing what she's doing.  So, that's not knowledge, that remains speculation.  I never said Cannon wouldn't fuck it up, I speculated that the reason was that she's a dumbfuck ill-suited to handle a trial like this moreso than in the bag for Trump.  He speculated the other way.

We still don't know, know.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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16 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Yeah when you post shit like this it reads to me as if you're saying "there's no point in prosecuting him, so why bother?"

That's not really fair.  @TwiceHorn is talking about the vote, not the crime.  I'm quite confident he's of the opinion that crimes were committed and that justice should be served.

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Posted (edited)

Also, to be ultra-realistic:

  • Even if all of these prosecutions had commenced in 2021 (unrealistic in itself), only experienced, hard-core judges like Chutkan or Merchan were getting these to trial within a year
  • Appeals would have prevented the finality of any judgments of conviction in any court until past the election, which in all likelihood would keep Trump out of prison and able to continue to squawk about witch hunts and corrupt judges and prosecutors
  • The immunity question, bullshit as it is, would hamstring and delay the January 6 case, even under Chutkan, making trial within a year, or even two, completely unrealistic, let alone any post-conviction appeals
  • The CIPA issues surrounding 30 someodd classified documents would have made trial within a year, or even two, a dubious proposition even with a judge like Chutkan or Lewis Kaplan  (see, e.g. Reality Winner case, resolved by plea one year after filing and involving far fewer classified documents)

Getting a final final conviction against Trump before the election was a pipe dream, even if events had lined up better than they have (no Cannon, no delay in indictment).

Edited by TwiceHorn
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9 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

That's not really fair.  @TwiceHorn is talking about the vote, not the crime.  I'm quite confident he's of the opinion that crimes were committed and that justice should be served.

Correct.  I remain hopeful that the system, permitted to operate, will result in convictions.  But it won't be on our timeframe.  In this belief, I am discounting jury nullification (hung juries by Trumpists) and Trump winning the election and halting proceedings.

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1 minute ago, miguelito said:

Lawdogs: do y'all think that all of Cannon's delays are totally normal, reasonable, and justified, and would happen in any other case, and are beyond scrutiny?

Beyond scrutiny, no.

But the case is not a year old, yet, even (filed June 8, 2023).  As said repeatedly, getting to trial in a year is an ambitious project even for an experienced, strong judge.  And that's without unique issues involving classified documents and CIPA, a statute that is relatively new and relatively few judges have experience with and which multiplies pretrial proceedings excessively

There are a few other unique issues, including now whether the piercing of privilege before the grand jury will also apply at this trial.  

Also, the fact that this involves three defendants is a complicating factor.  That basically triples the number of pretrial motions the judge has to deal with.

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2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

No one really knows why Cannon is doing what she's doing.  So, that's not knowledge, that remains speculation.  I never said Cannon wouldn't fuck it up, I speculated that the reason was that she's a dumbfuck ill-suited to handle a trial like this moreso than in the bag for Trump.  He speculated the other way.

We still don't know, know.

I guess they don’t teach “If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck” theory in law school. It’s ability to explain and predict Cannon’s actions has been pretty reliable in this case. 

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1 hour ago, miguelito said:

Lawdogs: do y'all think that all of Cannon's delays are totally normal, reasonable, and justified, and would happen in any other case, and are beyond scrutiny?

No. I'm fairly sure every lawyer that posts here but TwiceHorn thinks Cannon is pretty openly in the tank for Trump. He seems to have mostly quit giving her the benefit of the doubt, but is still rationalizing his error with this "we can't REALLY know what she's thinking" stuff. Which, c'mon man. 

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2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

No. I'm fairly sure every lawyer that posts here but TwiceHorn thinks Cannon is pretty openly in the tank for Trump. He seems to have mostly quit giving her the benefit of the doubt, but is still rationalizing his error with this "we can't REALLY know what she's thinking" stuff. Which, c'mon man. 

I mean, you can't actually know what she's thinking.

I have expressed no certainty on that issue, only that it is equally consistent with her being a dipshit, which I think is fairly beyond cavil at this point.

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4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

And, let's face it, if, somehow, all of these cases were tried to verdict before the election, and the appeals exhausted, it wouldn't change a damn thing.

 

If dotard was convicted under the espionage act then he wouldn’t be running around the country free to spout his bullshit.  That would be a huge and welcome change.

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6 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Also probably worth noting that lawdogs are pretty inured to delays.  It's one of those things you have to get used to when you start practicing.  And law students are already used to delays in that you wait an entire semester before getting any indication of a grade, in the usual case.

That doesn't mean we like it, and it's extremely unfortunate in these cases.  But it's just one of those "well, shit" things.

Just because the frogs in the pot are used to the high temperatures doesn’t mean the rest of us are jazzed about hopping in. The justice system is working, but not well, mainly because it only works for the people that created it ($) and just because it’s what we got doesn’t mean we can’t make it better. The only way to make it better is to vote, which leads us into another problem in this whole democracy experiment, the electorate is a brainwashed cumstain that believes in fairytales and worships Kim Kardashian 

 

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28 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Just because the frogs in the pot are used to the high temperatures doesn’t mean the rest of us are jazzed about hopping in. The justice system is working, but not well, mainly because it only works for the people that created it ($) and just because it’s what we got doesn’t mean we can’t make it better. The only way to make it better is to vote, which leads us into another problem in this whole democracy experiment, the electorate is a brainwashed cumstain that believes in fairytales and worships Kim Kardashian 

Exactly.  Any one of us could create some shell corporations, fudge some loan and real estate paperwork involving a dead woman and falsifying the info of a public notary in Florida, and then claim a property in Memphis that we  are foreclosing on so we can auction it for big bucks, but because we aren’t Donald Trump, it’s now in the news and the Tennessee Attorney General is coming after us.

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21 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Any one of us could create some shell corporations, fudge some loan and real estate paperwork involving a dead woman and falsifying the info of a public notary in Florida, and then claim a property in Memphis that we are foreclosing on so we can auction it for big bucks,

IMG_6725.gif.4d1ce7714f8a48694993bcd8870707eb.gif

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23 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Exactly.  Any one of us could create some shell corporations, fudge some loan and real estate paperwork involving a dead woman and falsifying the info of a public notary in Florida, and then claim a property in Memphis that we  are foreclosing on so we can auction it for big bucks, but because we aren’t Donald Trump, it’s now in the news and the Tennessee Attorney General is coming after us.

"Allegedly."  You forgot that very important word.  I "allegedly" did those things.  And you wanted to be my lawyer.  Sheesh.

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34 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

"Allegedly."  You forgot that very important word.  I "allegedly" did those things.  And you wanted to be my lawyer.  Sheesh.

I didn’t expect the woman’s daughter in this hypothetical situation to lawyer up and go to the media.

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8 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

No one really knows why Cannon is doing what she's doing.  So, that's not knowledge, that remains speculation.  I never said Cannon wouldn't fuck it up, I speculated that the reason was that she's a dumbfuck ill-suited to handle a trial like this moreso than in the bag for Trump.  He speculated the other way.

We still don't know, know.

Oh ffs.

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On 5/24/2024 at 6:51 AM, Hermanator said:

You're just constantly full of shit. You've been here saying the whole thing is working exactly as it's supposed to when we have one judge intentionally delaying a trial in Florida and the fucking Supreme Court intentionally dragging their feet to delay his trial in DC. It's pure fucking corruption and I, for one, am tired of your constant bullshit. 

Just shut your lawyer cunt ass up already. 

IMG_2753.jpeg.9504c5efc4d5956af8113ca52e499900.jpeg

Your heart is certainly in the right place on Cannon and SCOTUS, But you need to work a little bit more on your reading comprehension and memory.

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2 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Evidence wise, I think they proved it, but no jury is going to convict a former President of boring finance violations. I’m betting hung jury.

He's found guilty on 32 of 34 all by Friday.  Problem is, he'll be sentenced in October and free to walk pending appeal, which will take over a year.  He'll be dead by then.  

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8 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

He's found guilty on 32 of 34 all by Friday.  Problem is, he'll be sentenced in October and free to walk pending appeal, which will take over a year.  He'll be dead by then.  

Why 32 and not all 34?  There's no material difference in the 34 checks corresponding to the 34 counts.

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Just now, TwiceHorn said:

Why 32 and not all 34?  There's no material difference in the 34 checks corresponding to the 34 counts.

Just a guess, nothing more.  I've noticed over the years when a prosecutor charges with a shit load, typically a couple of things don't stick entirely.  

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6 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

Just a guess, nothing more.  I've noticed over the years when a prosecutor charges with a shit load, typically a couple of things don't stick entirely.  

Finding him not guilty on some (or several) charges can also be a negotiation chip for some wavering MAGA sympathizing juror who hesitates finding Trump guilty on all, but needs a bone thrown to him or her to get guilty votes on the others. 

As a former bailiff who sat outside the door overhearing the deliberations, disabuse yourself of the notion that they are in there employing nothing but logic and a desire to follow instructions. 

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Link to Gator saying the WHOLE THING is working EXACTLY as it’s supposed to?
I did say exactly that about the Stormy trial. I never said that about the others.  As mad as we all are about how things are turning out, it is understandable to get some of my babbling mixed up.
The people here who thought that all the trials could be completed and Trump jailed before the election were always massively delusional. 
Everybody hates it when Twice tells them all the reasons that it was very difficult to conclude it all by November and that likely things would be delayed.  But he was not wrong about that. 
Everybody’s minds are already made up, but I just want to leave everyone with the not so surprising concept that there can be more than one reason for something.
A Judge can be stupid, inexperienced, over her head and panicking - and also be a Trump fan with no problem delaying the trial if it helps her - and also does a solid for the guy who appointed her.  The easiest way for her to not fuck up in an embarrassing way and get bench slapped again by the 11th Circuit is to push everything down the road.   Does this help Trump?  Abso-fucking-lutely!  Could she also have a selfish reason to delay making decisions that she obviously is inept in making decisions - in front of the whole world - while it is closely watching and so far excoriating her?  Yeah, I think so.    
Could she see slow playing everything as a means to avoid criticism and embarrassment, Jack asking the 11th circuit to take the case away, etc., and concluding that putting the brakes on everything until maybe Trump gets elected again will stops the trial and save her…. and maybe get her appointed to a circuit court? Also, yes.
FWIW, that is my take. it does not have to be a 100% either or thing.  Feel free to stab away.
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38 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

disabuse yourself of the notion that they are in there employing nothing but logic and a desire to follow instructions. 

They’re typical Americans right? No one is thinking that

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Posted (edited)
On 5/24/2024 at 10:39 AM, wildcat09 said:

No. I'm fairly sure every lawyer that posts here but TwiceHorn thinks Cannon is pretty openly in the tank for Trump. He seems to have mostly quit giving her the benefit of the doubt, but is still rationalizing his error with this "we can't REALLY know what she's thinking" stuff. Which, c'mon man. 


jack smith was over matched vs cannon from day 1. she knew her job, and has executed it to T. I guess smith had faith in the impartial judicial system ? Hubris ? 
 

 

Edited by tx 3 putt
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4 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:


jack smith was over matched vs cannon from day 1. she knew her job, and has executed it to T. I guess smith had faith in the impartial judicial system ? Hubris ? 
 

 

image.jpeg.239338f6bd872b253cbc8e10f934071b.jpeg
 

ok. Right about now you are thinking to yourself “how did he wind up here?”

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