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Posted
13 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Alas, I had jury duty in November.  This is the jury I wanted to be selected for. Sigh.

Given the increasingly-decreasing abilities and aptitudes of Trump's attorney's, I could foresee your being on the voir dire panel, their taking the time to read all of your posts on Surly, and their allowing you to end up on the jury without objection.  This missed opportunity is a loss for us all.

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Posted

So if he posted the bond in his name and someone else fronted the money, what are the tax implications on a $92M gift.

 

Yes, I know he cheats on his taxes, but that's how they got Capone.

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Posted
8 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

Apparently underwritten by Chubb insurance group.  Don't know anything about them.  

I don't know....but I would heavily bet.....that they fronted the cash based on pledges of security of his ACTUAL interest in ACTUAL assets (not what he SAYS he has, but what he actually has, based on what they are actually worth).  Because after recent history, no legit, real outfit (and Chubb isn't some made-up deal, they've been around a long time) is going to front cash without serious fucking security backing it.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I don't know....but I would heavily bet.....that they fronted the cash based on pledges of security of his ACTUAL interest in ACTUAL assets (not what he SAYS he has, but what he actually has, based on what they are actually worth).  Because after recent history, no legit, real outfit (and Chubb isn't some made-up deal, they've been around a long time) is going to front cash without serious fucking security backing it.

Saudi Prince Friends GIF by Saturday Night Live

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I don't know....but I would heavily bet.....that they fronted the cash based on pledges of security of his ACTUAL interest in ACTUAL assets (not what he SAYS he has, but what he actually has, based on what they are actually worth).  Because after recent history, no legit, real outfit (and Chubb isn't some made-up deal, they've been around a long time) is going to front cash without serious fucking security backing it.

For all we know, Chubb is the insurer on the 737 and that is the collateral, which assuming that is free and clear is probably about right (a rather large assumption, I'll grant).  

Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

Apparently underwritten by Chubb insurance group.  Don't know anything about them.  

I've got an agreed value policy through CHUBB on my older boat.  They've faithfully taken my money for years.

Edited by dcbc
Posted
4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well that is interesting that he submitted an actual bond rather than cash. Guess that means he ain't got the cash. 

The bond writer, you can be relatively sure, has encumbered 91M of Trump assets of some sort.  The less liquid, the more the fees. 

It's not at all surprising to me, his whole life is a game of three card monty, and when you do that he's constantly robbing peter to pay paul, which means you never actually have anything that isn't going right back out to keep the scheme going.  When it's all said and done, I think we are going to find out that he's upside down several billion dollars.  The good news, in a couple of weeks the State of New York is going to start that process.  

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Posted

Normally I’d say a billionaire that has $500 million cash should just put up the money. 
 

but trump’s entire life and ethos is to have other people’s money work for him.  If that bond is collareralized, I’m sure he has a plan to thwart that if Chubb dares try to collect. 

Posted
Well that is interesting that he submitted an actual bond rather than cash. Guess that means he ain't got the cash. 
The bond writer, you can be relatively sure, has encumbered 91M of Trump assets of some sort.  The less liquid, the more the fees. 
The pretty great news is that Jean Carroll is fully secured now on both her judgments and if any part of either is affirmed, she gettin paid. 
Yep. She's getting paid after appeal. She might be the only one who does.
Normally I’d say a billionaire that has $500 million cash should just put up the money. 
 
but trump’s entire life and ethos is to have other people’s money work for him.  If that bond is collareralized, I’m sure he has a plan to thwart that if Chubb dares try to collect. 
He's not going to be able to stop them.
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Posted
1 minute ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Normally I’d say a billionaire that has $500 million cash should just put up the money. 
 

but trump’s entire life and ethos is to have other people’s money work for him.  If that bond is collareralized, I’m sure he has a plan to thwart that if Chubb dares try to collect. 

If Chubb pays on that bond they are coming after his ass hammer and tongs. 

They aren't some in the bag lender like DB that will be stuck with a foreclosure choice and cost.  Their only angle on this is the fees they have presumably already received. I'm sure those were healthy, but not enough to stomach a loss on the bond,which will be immediate and liquidated in amount if it comes to pass. There's no dilemma of refinancing or continuing to take payments or foreclosure. 

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Posted
16 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well that is interesting that he submitted an actual bond rather than cash. Guess that means he ain't got the cash. 

The bond writer, you can be relatively sure, has encumbered 91M of Trump assets of some sort.  The less liquid, the more the fees. 

The pretty great news is that Jean Carroll is fully secured now on both her judgments and if any part of either is affirmed, she gettin paid. 

 

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

If Chubb pays on that bond they are coming after his ass hammer and tongs. 

They aren't some in the bag lender like DB that will be stuck with a foreclosure choice and cost.  Their only angle on this is the fees they have presumably already received. I'm sure those were healthy, but not enough to stomach a loss on the bond,which will be immediate and liquidated in amount if it comes to pass. There's no dilemma of refinancing or continuing to take payments or foreclosure. 

These.

Because he posted a bond rather than cash, he had to pay cash to Chubb for the service of them posting the bond.  Even if it was just 10% (and that's a low rate, from what I understand of that market), he had to pay them $9 million+, and that money is spent and gone, no matter what happens on appeal.  THEN, if he loses the appeal, Carroll just closes on the bond, and gets paid in full.

THEN, Chubb goes after the pledged assets to make itself whole.  And if it didn't get pledge security that is free-and-clear of other encumbrances that has a value more than sufficient to cover the bond, they're dumb as fuck.  That's possible, but unlikely.   NOW, could there be some shenanigan money laundering going on -- maybe the asset Trump pledged (with, ummm, a "co-signer" type) is an account somewhere....full of Saudi money?  No idea.  But if there's an opportunity for impropriety, one should definitely suspect that Trump is exercising that opportunity.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I’m saying if it’s against the plane or some other mobile asset, he will move/hide it or keep working out appeals to keep the execution of the award at bay. 

Chubb has over $400 billion in assets. They would squash him like a bug.

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Posted
20 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

These.

Because he posted a bond rather than cash, he had to pay cash to Chubb for the service of them posting the bond.  Even if it was just 10% (and that's a low rate, from what I understand of that market), he had to pay them $9 million+, and that money is spent and gone, no matter what happens on appeal.  THEN, if he loses the appeal, Carroll just closes on the bond, and gets paid in full.

THEN, Chubb goes after the pledged assets to make itself whole.  And if it didn't get pledge security that is free-and-clear of other encumbrances that has a value more than sufficient to cover the bond, they're dumb as fuck.  That's possible, but unlikely.   NOW, could there be some shenanigan money laundering going on -- maybe the asset Trump pledged (with, ummm, a "co-signer" type) is an account somewhere....full of Saudi money?  No idea.  But if there's an opportunity for impropriety, one should definitely suspect that Trump is exercising that opportunity.


quid pro quo 

 

 

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Posted
29 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:


quid pro quo 

 

 

Eh, not everything is a conspiracy.  That kind of appointment sounds like an unpaid pain in the ass more than anything.

I suspect this was a highly arms-length transaction with Chubb papered to the hilt and poised to go balls deep on Trump should he try any shenanigans.

Posted
1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

 

These.

Because he posted a bond rather than cash, he had to pay cash to Chubb for the service of them posting the bond.  Even if it was just 10% (and that's a low rate, from what I understand of that market), he had to pay them $9 million+, and that money is spent and gone, no matter what happens on appeal.  THEN, if he loses the appeal, Carroll just closes on the bond, and gets paid in full.

THEN, Chubb goes after the pledged assets to make itself whole.  And if it didn't get pledge security that is free-and-clear of other encumbrances that has a value more than sufficient to cover the bond, they're dumb as fuck.  That's possible, but unlikely.   NOW, could there be some shenanigan money laundering going on -- maybe the asset Trump pledged (with, ummm, a "co-signer" type) is an account somewhere....full of Saudi money?  No idea.  But if there's an opportunity for impropriety, one should definitely suspect that Trump is exercising that opportunity.

image.png.2daeed7c0f95b4e0a03a7d5605fdd679.png

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Posted (edited)

Alright ladies and germs, it is nut-cutting time for Aileen Cannon. 

In opposing Trump’s motion to dismiss on immunity, Smith asks her to declare Trump's motion frivolous. That means even if she denies it, and he appeals, no stay of proceedings will attach, as it has in the DC case. 

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/07/politics/special-counsel-trump-delay-motion/index.html

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Posted
1 hour ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

image.png.2daeed7c0f95b4e0a03a7d5605fdd679.png

Every now and then I like to point out that that's from October of 2016. BEFORE the first election. Think about how much shit has happened since then.... and it still applies, for the most part.

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Posted
3 hours ago, BamaATL said:

It's not at all surprising to me, his whole life is a game of three card monty, and when you do that he's constantly robbing peter to pay paul, which means you never actually have anything that isn't going right back out to keep the scheme going.  When it's all said and done, I think we are going to find out that he's upside down several billion dollars.  The good news, in a couple of weeks the State of New York is going to start that process.  

It sounds exhausting.  Good!

Posted
3 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

Yep. She's getting paid after appeal. She might be the only one who does.

3 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

 

But I've been assured by so many on this thread that nobody is getting paid a dime.

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Posted
1 minute ago, dcbc said:

But I've been assured by so many on this thread that nobody is getting paid a dime.

I'll preface that with 'she's getting paid so long as he doesn't get elected'. If he gets elected, not only is nobody getting paid, but we're all getting fucked.

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Posted
2 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Chubb's problem is that if Trump wins the election there's no way he's repaying them or letting them take his shit.

Fingers crossed that this one moves through before November.

Posted
26 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

I'll preface that with 'she's getting paid so long as he doesn't get elected'. If he gets elected, not only is nobody getting paid, but we're all getting fucked.

I don't think he can unring the bond bell, but I wholeheartedly agree with your second sentence.

Posted
1 hour ago, Chewbacca said:

I'll preface that with 'she's getting paid so long as he doesn't get elected'. If he gets elected, not only is nobody getting paid, but we're all getting fucked.

How so on the first part? The Clinton case established that there is no presidential immunity for civil cases. The appeal can proceed and when he loses she'll get paid from the bond and Chubb will use its extraordinary resources to ensure the fat fuck pays up. I suspect they took some security interest in some of his shit that still has value. 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

How so on the first part? The Clinton case established that there is no presidential immunity for civil cases. The appeal can proceed and when he loses she'll get paid from the bond and Chubb will use its extraordinary resources to ensure the fat fuck pays up. I suspect they took some security interest in some of his shit that still has value. 

That was different.  You see, Clinton engaged in an extramarital affair and then lied about it.  Republicans will not stand for such an offense.  What he should have done is paid her to keep quiet.   

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Posted
4 minutes ago, dcbc said:

That was different.  You see, Clinton engaged in an extramarital affair and then lied about it.  Republicans will not stand for such an offense. 

Huh. Funny how that works. Here's a gif that I predict will get a lot of use around here.

200.gif?cid=6c09b952won0m3sbo4hpbcuecrza

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Posted

Guys, if Donald Trump is reelected there is no way in hell Chubb is selling any of his assets. He'll be having his political opponents rounded up and imprisoned. You think some fucking CEO is going to risk that over pawning his fucking plane? 

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Posted

Chubb is the gold standard in private client P&C and has been for 50+ years. Their commercial business is good as well but commercial is a whole different animal, and so is the bond/surety game, which I know next-to-nothing about. AIG is known for doing reckless, stupid shit. Chubb, not so much.

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Posted
51 minutes ago, 'stache said:

How so on the first part? The Clinton case established that there is no presidential immunity for civil cases. The appeal can proceed and when he loses she'll get paid from the bond and Chubb will use its extraordinary resources to ensure the fat fuck pays up. I suspect they took some security interest in some of his shit that still has value. 

Yeah because the government has almost zero role in civil litigation besides providing the forum and the judge, it is not immediately apparent to me how he would stop Chubb.   But I am sure he would try. 

Posted
3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah because the government has almost zero role in civil litigation besides providing the forum and the judge, it is not immediately apparent to me how he would stop Chubb.   But I am sure he would try. 

He stops Chubb the way all authoritarians control private enterprises in their countries.  To stop them from executing on his $90 million in assets, he threatens them with executive action that will seize/damage/reduce the value of Chubb's portfolio by a few billion.  Chubb then falls in line, example eleventy billion of a private enterprise bending the knee to a head of gov't using the power of the state for his personal benefit.  This isn't hard or complicated.  Damn near every third world shithole of the past several centuries had it down to a science.  On the flip side, if Chubb steps up and does him a solid, he'll use that same government power to do something favorable for Chubb that enriches their portfolio by a few billion.

Those in the know call this approach "plata o plomo."  Again, it's criminal gangster 101 shit.

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Posted

There is a really good chance Dipshit's personal insurance is handled by Chubb though he's such a wild card I bet they no longer let him have an umbrella. He's in the realm of shady-ass entertainers and athletes by this point. If he's not with Chubb, my second guess would be AIG.

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Posted
1 minute ago, C-Man said:

There is a really good chance Dipshit's personal insurance is handled by Chubb though he's such a wild card I bet they no longer let him have an umbrella. He's in the realm of shady-ass entertainers and athletes by this point. If he's not with Chubb, my second guess would be AIG.

Like he can get coverage from quality outfits like those.  All of his coverage is with

 

MV5BMWQyOTgwYjctMDkwZS00MjQ3LWJhNTEtNmIy

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Posted

It turns out that Trump may have called in a major favor: Court records filed Friday show that the bond was guaranteed by the Chubb Corporation, an insurance group. In 2018, Trump appointed Chubb’s CEO Evan Greenberg to a White House advisory committee for trade policy and negotiations.

 

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Posted
6 hours ago, BamaATL said:

For all we know, Chubb is the insurer on the 737 and that is the collateral, which assuming that is free and clear is probably about right (a rather large assumption, I'll grant).  

Trump’s 34 year old 757 is worth nowhere near $93 million.

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