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7 minutes ago, troph said:

Context. They are funny and said things at a time when the people who have or care for those with disabilities didn’t have the power to speak up. So we can watch and acknowledge humor but also recognize that language isn’t acceptable today.

i mean, we all celebrate norm macdonald still today, and he used that word all of the time. the dedicated thread to him is full of clips of him using the word. so for me, this place (surly) can't both be a place that celebrates norm macdonald but then also turns around and says that there is *never* an excuse for using the r word. intent and context mean everything, and i find that taking a hard line one something just completely removes both of those factors.

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3 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

It’s not an either/or but thing.  Things can be offensive and still have a place here. We’ve all said offensive things here. The difference is we aren’t all trying to pretend those things aren’t offensive. 
But nobody is changing your mind.  

your last sentence is wildly ironic. my mind is open. go re-read my OP if you need to. i'm open to hearing what anyone here has to say. the only people here whose minds aren't changing are the ones who've got their minds made up about me. 

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3 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

i mean, we all celebrate norm macdonald still today, and he used that word all of the time. the dedicated thread to him is full of clips of him using the word. so for me, this place (surly) can't both be a place that celebrates norm macdonald but then also turns around and says that there is *never* an excuse for using the r word. intent and context mean everything, and i find that taking a hard line one something just completely removes both of those factors.

But are you really removing the words when you replace them with letters? I don't think so. In a weird way you accentuate them 

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22 minutes ago, South Austin said:

My poor mom is denigrated on an hourly basis on this forum.  I'm the last guy here who is offended.

If you had an issue with your mom's sexual activities, that would be a "you" problem.  Good for you for being ok with it. 

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16 minutes ago, nineliveslost said:

ok, I spent one minute on the goggles searching this. I always thought "hot" was cool or the cool car

What you talking about Willis?

Posters on surly call Greg Abbott hot wheels, the same posters who express outrage at racism, homophobia, etc. It’s just example 5,000 how people adjust their own moral compass to fit their own world political views. And they somehow justify it in their own minds. Whatever. 

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26 minutes ago, royiv said:

You're talking about a guy who is dead, a movie made in 2008 and one that was made in 1995. How hard is it for you to understand that language evolves? You do realize using the n word used to he socially acceptable and we don't do that any longer, right? 

Quit comparing retarded to the n word. Talk about being insensitive. 

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16 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

i mean, we all celebrate norm macdonald still today, and he used that word all of the time. the dedicated thread to him is full of clips of him using the word. so for me, this place (surly) can't both be a place that celebrates norm macdonald but then also turns around and says that there is *never* an excuse for using the r word. intent and context mean everything, and i find that taking a hard line one something just completely removes both of those factors.

blah blah blah I want to still use the words that people find offensive now, but I don’t want them looking down on or judging me because I use them.  

See somebody said it/used it in the past. (I do not get that saying this last point is the functional equivalent of “I have a black friend”)

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this is a semi public forum near equivalent to yelling from the street corner.  you don't know who is listening and when you might be poking someone's particular sore spot.  the main difference is that everyone can easily avoid this particular street corner if they don't want to hear what is said.  if it's not fun to be here, don't be here.

 

so a bit of the onus is on the listener to let some stuff slide and a bit of the onus is on the speaker to be wary of the huge blast radius of any comment. 

 

i think we do a fairly decent job and i don't really think that anyone here is a piece of shit.

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38 minutes ago, South Austin said:

My poor mom is denigrated on an hourly basis on this forum.  I'm the last guy here who is offended.

5% of the jokes about your mom are funny. Most are not. 5% of the jokes about armybrat’s age are funny, especially if he makes them. Most are not. Neither one of you guys seem to give a shit. 

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1 minute ago, Gatorubet said:

blah blah blah I want to still use the words that people find offensive now, but I don’t want them looking down on or judging me because I use them.  

See somebody said it/used it in the past. (I do not get that saying this last point is the functional equivalent of “I have a black friend”)

your post is like the fifth iteration of the same post that many other people have made many times here, and it's been addressed. in fact it was addressed in the very post you just quoted. this has nothing to do with me seeking any of y'all's approval to say whatever i want to. that's frankly a preposterous notion to begin with. so uh, try again.

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6 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Quit comparing retarded to the n word. Talk about being insensitive. 

You missed the point that language evolves. Some things that were acceptable 100 years ago aren’t acceptable today just like some things that were acceptable 20 years ago aren’t acceptable today. One of the beautiful things about humans is that we’re constantly evolving and learning. 

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3 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

this is a semi public forum near equivalent to yelling from the street corner.  you don't know who is listening and when you might be poking someone's particular sore spot.  the main difference is that everyone can easily avoid this particular street corner if they don't want to hear what is said.  if it's not fun to be here, don't be here.

 

so a bit of the onus is on the listener to let some stuff slide and a bit of the onus is on the speaker to be wary of the huge blast radius of any comment. 

 

i think we do a fairly decent job and i don't really think that anyone here is a piece of shit.

this is probably my favorite response so far, and is in line with exactly how i feel. of course it's shitty to go out of your way to be cruel to someone. that's never been a question. however, this newly discovered notion that we have shaggy/surly members who choose to sign up for and post here every day who also think that the r word should strictly be verboten- that one made me pause. like you said, if it's not fun to be here then don't be here. i have a hard time thinking that the venn diagram of dedicated surly posters and people who cannot handle hearing offensive language has a whole lot of overlap.

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3 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

in fact it was addressed in the very post you just quoted. this has nothing to do with me seeking any of y'all's approval

Yet it is painfully obvious that all you really want is approval. It's a shame you have no idea how to go about it. 

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5 minutes ago, Deej said:

Yet it is painfully obvious that all you really want is approval. It's a shame you have no idea how to go about it. 

oh for sure, i just desperately seek all of y'all's approval. that's why i spend 95% of my time on this site tucked away in the basketball forum where 99% of our posters never go. yeah you've really got me pegged there. 👌🏼 

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I do wonder about the future of comedy given that historically a lot of the humor was at the expense of someone else. In 50 years will it be a completely humorless society with people walking around in misery with blank looks on their faces?

Wait, did I just describe the last ten years of Texas football?

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I shouldn't have made the comment I made because of the very nature of what we're talking about here, but are you aware that you seem extremely mad (or, "up in arms") in every single one of these instances where you get crossways with a poster or some posters and you can't let it go? FWIW I agree that people should cut you some slack and that it has (or had, I don't know how much it still happens) become sport. Of course, it became that way because of your history of interactions on the board and your continued struggle with letting stuff like that slide.

Pointing out that something is offensive is not the same as being offended, btw. I certainly used "retarded", or even "gay" and "fag" (a long time ago when I was a much younger and dumber person). Not proud of that, but as has been pointed out language evolves and part of that is our understanding. It is good when "we" are helped to be empathetic with people who are hurt by the way we use words.

if you're not sure how it is that an adult becomes offended, reach into your mind and access the feelings that are triggered every time the thing that happens happens.

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1 minute ago, Dbeasy said:

I do wonder about the future of comedy given that historically a lot of the humor was at the expense of someone else. In 50 years will it be a completely humorless society with people walking around in misery with blank looks on their faces?

Wait, did I just describe the last ten years of Texas football?

i'm not a comedian or really qualified to speak in an educated way about it but I believe there is discussion about how punching down is cheap and for hacks. I don't think that you need to make fun of disabled, marginalized, etc to be funny

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3 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I shouldn't have made the comment I made because of the very nature of what we're talking about here, but are you aware that you seem extremely mad (or, "up in arms") in every single one of these instances where you get crossways with a poster or some posters and you can't let it go?

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8 minutes ago, royiv said:

You missed the point that language evolves. Some things that were acceptable 100 years ago aren’t acceptable today just like some things that were acceptable 20 years ago aren’t acceptable today. One of the beautiful things about humans is that we’re constantly evolving and learning. 

I understand your point. Your analogy is stupid. "Retard" and its related words are part of the vernacular in many ways that aren't offensive. If your kid is mentally retarded you still label them as mentally retarded. Because that's what they are. There are fire retardants. There are products that retard that are labeled retarders. The word when used as a derogatory adjective offends some people and doesn't offend others. Over time it has become both more offensive and less offensive depending on the generation and context. 

The other word has a singular purpose with centuries of hate, enslavement, subjugation and discrimination behind it. I'm not even going to type it out because that's how problematic it is. It isn't the same at all.

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1 minute ago, ztejas said:

I understand your point. Your analogy is stupid. "Retard" and its related words are part of the vernacular in many ways that aren't offensive. If your kid is mentally retarded you still label them as mentally retarded. Because that's what they are. There are fire retardants. There are products that retard that are labeled retarders. The word when used as a derogatory adjective offends some people and doesn't offend others. Over time it has become both more offensive and less offensive depending on the generation and context. 

The other word has a singular purpose with centuries of hate, enslavement, subjugation and discrimination behind it. I'm not even going to type it out because that's how problematic it is. It isn't the same at all.

 

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10 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

but are you aware that you seem extremely mad (or, "up in arms") in every single one of these instances where you get crossways with a poster or some posters and you can't let it go?

are you aware that whenever i have a discussion/disagreement/back-and-forth with another poster/posters that you always frame it as "derka can't let it go"? what about the person/people i'm debating with? in this case that would be you. why is it that my equal (sometimes lesser) share of the posting is always framed that way, when it's never framed that way for the people who are engaging in the back and forth with me? something worth marinating on. 

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5 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I understand your point. Your analogy is stupid. "Retard" and its related words are part of the vernacular in many ways that aren't offensive. If your kid is mentally retarded you still label them as mentally retarded. Because that's what they are. There are fire retardants. There are products that retard that are labeled retarders. The word when used as a derogatory adjective offends some people and doesn't offend others. Over time it has become both more offensive and less offensive depending on the generation and context. 

The other word has a singular purpose with centuries of hate, enslavement, subjugation and discrimination behind it. I'm not even going to type it out because that's how problematic it is. It isn't the same at all.

What was the context in the basketball thread?

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14 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

i'm not a comedian or really qualified to speak in an educated way about it but I believe there is discussion about how punching down is cheap and for hacks. I don't think that you need to make fun of disabled, marginalized, etc to be funny

I think everyone generally agrees with that. I’m thinking more about how far will it go. When you think about the universe of jokes, inevitably it’s about making fun of something or someone. Will making fun of engineers being nerdy be out of bounds in ten years? Not that it’s funny, but just using that as an example. 

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5 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

When the Special Olympics has a take on something, and your take is the opposite of theirs and you want to tell everyone the Special Olympics is the one that’s wrong, you need to be prepared for most people to think you’re kind of an asshole.  Just a life lesson on the battles to pick. 
 

https://www.specialolympics.org/stories/impact/why-the-r-word-is-the-r-slur

Special can be used in many different ways. 😂

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2 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I think everyone generally agrees with that. I’m thinking more about how far will it go. When you think about the universe of jokes, inevitably it’s about making fun of something or someone. Will making fun of engineers being nerdy be out of bounds in ten years? Not that it’s funny, but just using that as an example. 

This world has turned upside down!  It used to be white men making fun of everyone and now it’s like the opposite!!!

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4 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I think everyone generally agrees with that. I’m thinking more about how far will it go. When you think about the universe of jokes, inevitably it’s about making fun of something or someone. Will making fun of engineers being nerdy be out of bounds in ten years? Not that it’s funny, but just using that as an example. 

I highly highly doubt it

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16 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

are you aware that whenever i have a discussion/disagreement/back-and-forth with another poster/posters that you always frame it as "derka can't let it go"?

I rarely get involved in thread derkaing, I think it's been a period of years since I last engaged with you on this topic, and even then it was about how you should let things go not about how you're wrong and dumb or whatever it is that you feel like people are doing when they are victimizing you. It is interesting that you still have me pegged as someone who persecutes you on this board.

 

Quote

what about the person/people i'm debating with?

you don't control them

Quote

in this case that would be you. why is it that my equal (sometimes lesser) share of the posting is always framed that way, when it's never framed that way for the people who are engaging in the back and forth with me? something worth marinating on. 

this is what I wrote just now that you responded to with this - 
I shouldn't have made the comment I made because of the very nature of what we're talking about here, but are you aware that you seem extremely mad (or, "up in arms") in every single one of these instances where you get crossways with a poster or some posters and you can't let it go? FWIW I agree that people should cut you some slack and that it has (or had, I don't know how much it still happens) become sport. Of course, it became that way because of your history of interactions on the board and your continued struggle with letting stuff like that slide.

 

I'm going to go back to not engaging with you on this for a few years.

Edited by Celery Man
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34 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

your post is like the fifth iteration of the same post that many other people have made many times here, and it's been addressed. in fact it was addressed in the very post you just quoted. this has nothing to do with me seeking any of y'all's approval to say whatever i want to. that's frankly a preposterous notion to begin with. so uh, try again.

So just an intellectual exercise, with you advocating to be able to use the word retarded and not get blow back from snowflakes.  Gotcha.

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3 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I rarely get involved in thread derkaing, I think it's been a period of years since I last engaged with you on this topic, and even then it was about how you should let things go

yeah but this is what so hilariously ironic about your first post in this thread. the absolute, unequivocal fact is that i was not the one in the rick and morty thread who got upset, nor was i the one who could not let it go. it was y'all, 100%. i said, "yeah this show used to be better" and countless posters who are not me just lost their ever loving minds and then absolutely could not let it go. you still haven't let it go. but then y'all swear that it's me who is upset and who won't let it go.

the mob mentality/hive mind that takes place in these instances is just fascinating for me. "every accusation is a confession." that's all that comes to my mind when you guys try and make these claims about me. it's wild.

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3 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

yeah but this is what so hilariously ironic about your first post in this thread. the absolute, unequivocal fact is that i was not the one in the rick and morty thread who got upset, not was i the one who could not let it go. it was y'all. i said, "yeah this show used to be better" and countless posters who are not me just lost their ever loving minds and then absolutely could not let it go. you still haven't let it go. the mob mentality/hive mind that takes place in these instances is just fascinating for me. "every accusation is a confession." that's all that comes to my mind when you guys try and make these claims about me. it's wild.

You wrecked the House of Dragons thread too.  We all said "yea, show isn't perfect but can we discuss it without you butting in?"  Yes, I know there's an ignore button. 

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1 hour ago, nineliveslost said:

I went through the drive through, got my order with the correct price and said, "thanks man" and was about to drive off when I got a "I'm not a man and that's offensive." 

Dude was clearly a dude. 

What. The. Fuck. Ever.

((YELLING AT CLOUDS)) Everyone and their ever changing and adding social bullshit rules. It's a beating and I am offended they are offended :)

 

What sucks is dealing with that at work. I don't know 100% if it is a guy wanting to be a girl, a manly looking girl, a girly looking man - basically I don't know anything about the situation. So basically, I need to guess right without asking which would be rude. I guess nowadays I need to put it on the questionnaire and review it beforehand.

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Just now, Bevo said:

What sucks is dealing with that at work. I don't know 100% if it is a guy wanting to be a girl, a manly looking girl, a girly looking man - basically I don't know anything about the situation. So basically, I need to guess right without asking which would be rude. I guess nowadays I need to put it on the questionnaire and review it beforehand.

Maybe just call them by their name?

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5 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

So just an intellectual exercise, with you advocating to be able to use the word retarded and not get blow back from snowflakes.  Gotcha.

i don't know if you were around back in ~08-09, but i used to have a phrase that i looooved to throw around: "water head retard." i said it all of the time. anyone who disagreed with me was a water head retard. in fact, the shaggy colloquialism "regard/regarded" spawned from a typo of mine in a hoops board thread title. bottom line, anyone who was around back then will remember how frequently i just tossed that word around like it meant nothing.

fast forward to today, and i hardly ever use the word at all, and really only use it in context. as ygifs described, using the word, and using it often, comes off as an indictment on both your vocabulary and your intelligence, which are two of the main reasons that i all but stopped using the word altogether, again with the exception being using the word in context. 

i do not want or need your permission or approval to say a word that pretty much left my vocabulary years ago. however, i absolutely will debate with anyone who believes that the word should be banned from surly, and that's really the only stance i've taken on it here. so, continue with your off topic, butthurt, i-hate-derka replies all you'd like, but just know that nothing you're saying is adding anything to this discussion, and you're coming off as very whiny and upset. 

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