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Posted
1 hour ago, William Bludworth said:

Me too. Is it a Texas thing? We seem to hire some soft ass coaches. 

Mack was the master at working the refs. It was hilarious how differently they have treated us since. Though not even he could get holding called in the Big 12.

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Posted
1 hour ago, stork642 said:

I have it on good authority that last test in the protocol is an audible situation in practice.  If there are 9 in the box and Mosley is covered one on one and Arch changes the play to peanut butter he’s out for this week’s game.  

That would actually indicate he’s back to baseline and g2g

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Posted
1 hour ago, Your Mom said:

Sark doesn't need to scream at refs as long as our fans have enough water bottles in hand.

It’s amazing it took that for the shitty refs to make the correct call. 

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Posted

The Latest on Arch Manning (Friday 10:37 a.m.) - Vogel

"But things are trending in the right direction to seeing No. 16 behind center on Saturday barring a set back.

The Friday evening Availability Report will drop this evening around 7:10 p.m. I would expect a QUESTIONABLE or GAME-TIME DECISION designation for Manning. Texas is not fully in the clear, but right now, it's at an encouraging stage."

Spoiler

The Latest on Arch Manning (Friday 10:37 a.m.)

 

CJ Vogel

By CJ Vogel

  • 28 minutes ago
 

Latest Update on Arch Manning

***

Pete Nakos of On3 has reported that QB Arch Manning is a game-time decision for Saturday's contest vs. Vanderbilt.

I can confirm that report.

In a thread on Thursday, an OTF OG lofted out an estimation of 70% likeliness that Arch Manning plays. I think that number is in the ballpark, and perhaps even a couple of percentage points low based off of intel provided throughout the week.

Still, Manning must clear the protocol completely – that is what today is for.

Over the last two days, Manning has increased his participation in Texas' practice and preparations for Vanderbilt. Again, a full clearance must be given by the medical professionals and the Texas staff. But things are trending in the right direction to seeing No. 16 behind center on Saturday barring a set back.

The Friday evening Availability Report will drop this evening around 7:10 p.m. I would expect a QUESTIONABLE or GAME-TIME DECISION designation for Manning. Texas is not fully in the clear, but right now, it's at an encouraging stage.

 

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Posted
11 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

I'm really hoping that Manning doesn't play tomorrow. It has nothing to do with how he's looked in prior games. It's just hard to believe that the guy will be fully healthy and able to run the offense in just 7 days from the injury. There's a bye week next week. Just take another 2 weeks to get fully healthy and ready for Georgia. 

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

I'm really hoping that Manning doesn't play tomorrow. It has nothing to do with how he's looked in prior games. It's just hard to believe that the guy will be fully healthy and able to run the offense in just 7 days from the injury. There's a bye week next week. Just take another 2 weeks to get fully healthy and ready for Georgia. 

I completely agree with you. It's highly unlikely that Texas will get an outcome where:

1. Arch is as effective of a QB as he can be

2. He's able to, and without reservation, use his mobility

3. Is not re injured/more severely injured.

I'd rather Caldwell start and the staff see if they possibly need to go to Arch.

Edited by MuellerHorn
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Posted

I'm going to go on the assumption that the concussion protocols are a lot more advanced than "rub some dirt on it" and that risk is minimized if he clears proper medical evaluations.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm going to go on the assumption that the concussion protocols are a lot more advanced than "rub some dirt on it" and that risk is minimized if he clears proper medical evaluations.

It's more nuanced than that. While RTP concussion protocols are formulaic pathways, post concussive symptoms, especially processing speed, decision-making, noise tolerance, activity tolerance, what happens when he's hit again, etc., are much more variable. It's basically impossible to simulate a real game environment to tell how Arch is realistically going to respond if he's trotted out there on Saturday.  

Edited by MuellerHorn
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Posted
6 minutes ago, MuellerHorn said:

It's more nuanced than that. While RTP concussion protocols are formulaic pathways, post concussive symptoms, especially processing speed, decision-making, noise tolerance, activity tolerance, what happens when he's hit again, etc., are much more variable. It's basically impossible to simulate a real game environment to tell how Arch is realistically going to respond if he's trotted out there on Saturday.  

I can get that.  It's possibly not so much a medical concern as it is a performance concern.  One week out, even if cleared, could lead to less than peak performance.  There's likely no way to determine how he'd play without playing him. 

If Arch, his family and the doctors are willing to take that shot, it's not like he couldn't be pulled for Caldwell if things aren't working.  Anyway, it's not my decision.

Posted
13 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I can get that.  It's possibly not so much a medical concern as it is a performance concern.  One week out, even if cleared, could lead to less than peak performance.  There's likely no way to determine how he'd play without playing him. 

If Arch, his family and the doctors are willing to take that shot, it's not like he couldn't be pulled for Caldwell if things aren't working.  Anyway, it's not my decision.

Yeah, as ctj said, it's hard to imagine that a concussed, fuzzy-headed Arch is an improvement.

But his failure to date is so bizarre that anything is possible, I suppose.

Posted
57 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

I'm really hoping that Manning doesn't play tomorrow. It has nothing to do with how he's looked in prior games. It's just hard to believe that the guy will be fully healthy and able to run the offense in just 7 days from the injury. There's a bye week next week. Just take another 2 weeks to get fully healthy and ready for Georgia. 

If we were sitting here with just 1 loss to Ohio State, I would say I 100% agree with you. But our season is over if we lose tomorrow, so I think he has to play if he's cleared. 

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Posted

If he clears protocol, does that mean zero extra risk of another concussion? 

Either way, I'm in the let him sit camp but doubly so if there is even an ounce of extra risk compared to waiting a couple weeks.

Posted
1 minute ago, Tex-19 said:

If he clears protocol, does that mean zero extra risk of another concussion? 

Either way, I'm in the let him sit camp but doubly so if there is even an ounce of extra risk compared to waiting a couple weeks.

It’s football there is no such thing as zero risk. And once you are concussed you’re more at risk moving forward whether it be 1 week 2 weeks etc

Posted
1 hour ago, closetojumping said:

I'm really hoping that Manning doesn't play tomorrow. It has nothing to do with how he's looked in prior games. It's just hard to believe that the guy will be fully healthy and able to run the offense in just 7 days from the injury. There's a bye week next week. Just take another 2 weeks to get fully healthy and ready for Georgia. 

All of this.

I'd rather we play Caldwell, win or lose, than see Arch risk his health if he's anything less than 100%.  Concussions aren't something to fuck around with.  This isn't a rolled ankle or sore shoulder.

 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

It’s football there is no such thing as zero risk. And once you are concussed you’re more at risk moving forward whether it be 1 week 2 weeks etc

The question was whether the risk is higher tomorrow versus 2 weeks from now.

Posted (edited)

Here's my concern with concussion protocol tests.

I once was pulled over and given a battery of roadside tests.  I was able to pass them, even though I was drunk.

To what degree could a still-concussed person make it though concussion protocol?  I don't think a concussion is like a switch where one day you're concussed and then you're not.  It's a steady recovery back to normal, right?  So at what point in that arc can someone pass concussion protocol?

Edited by TexArcher
Posted

I know absolutely nothing about the degree of Arch's concussion, so I am will just wait to hear what the doctors say about it. They clear him, he should play. If they dont, he should sit. 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Here's my concern with concussion protocol tests.

I once was pulled over and given a battery of roadside tests.  I was able to pass them, even though I was drunk.

To what degree could a still-concussed person make it though concussion protocol?  I don't think a concussion is like a switch where one day you're concussed and then you're not.  It's a steady recovery back to normal, right?  So at what point in that arc can someone pass concussion protocol?

The 6 protocols go from "rest for 24 hours" up through increasing levels of physical activity + cognitive tests.  They are intended to reflect gradual improvement as it occurs.

Posted
6 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Here's my concern with concussion protocol tests.

I once was pulled over and given a battery of roadside tests.  I was able to pass them, even though I was drunk.

To what degree could a still-concussed person make it though concussion protocol?  I don't think a concussion is like a switch where one day you're concussed and then you're not.  It's a steady recovery back to normal, right?  So at what point in that arc can someone pass concussion protocol?

We're talking about a test that was developed and administered by doctors, subject to scrutiny by the football program and the player's family. 

You are talking about a cop watching you spell the alphabet backwards while he was probably thinking "is this guy so drunk that I'm willing to deal with the paperwork?" 

I just don't think the concerns you have about field sobriety tests translate. 

Also, don't drink and drive. 

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Posted (edited)

 

11 minutes ago, Park Gothic said:

I just don't think the concerns you have about field sobriety tests translate. 

Also, don't drink and drive. 

 

The comparison is not between the two tests.  It's a question of how likely it is that someone could successfully bullshit his way through the concussion tests.  And I don't believe the answer can possibly be 0%.

And, drinking and driving was without question the dumbest thing I ever did.  I'm 12+ years sober now.

Edited by TexArcher
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Posted

I don't know how easy it is to BS one's way through the protocols.  I suppose one could lie about symptoms ("no doc, no headache") but if he's failing cognitive tests that's gonna be obvious.

Anyway, it seems pretty clear that the docs have to approve play first, and then it's a reasonable assumption that Arch + family will have the next say in the matter.

Posted
22 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

I know absolutely nothing about the degree of Arch's concussion, so I am will just wait to hear what the doctors say about it. They clear him, he should play. If they dont, he should sit. 

Exactly, no one knows for sure what they would do in that situation because none of us know what his doctors know.

the film experts on here were the same ones convinced his arm was hurt based on faces he made while throwing the ball.

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tex-19 said:

If he clears protocol, does that mean zero extra risk of another concussion? 

Either way, I'm in the let him sit camp but doubly so if there is even an ounce of extra risk compared to waiting a couple weeks.

Not at all. 

52 minutes ago, Tex-19 said:

The question was whether the risk is higher tomorrow versus 2 weeks from now.

In a vacuum, two weeks from now is better. However, concussion symptoms can last a few days to months, or even years.

Bobby reported that Arch's concussion was considered "slight." However, the risk of re-injury is always higher following a first concussion, with risk compounding with each occurrence of TBI thereafter - especially so if the trauma occurs soon after a preceding concussion. 

Therefore, while diagnostic symptoms might subside, risk does not. This is why I am saying it is more nuanced than simply passing RTP protocols. Passing protocol ≠ an elimination of risk, or even an absence of elevated risk. No matter what, if Arch plays Saturday, he has both a heightened risk of re-injury, as well as a heightened risk of greater injury. I certainly to not have access to Arch's medical record, his real-time progress, symptoms, etc. However, doctors clearing him does not do anything to the fact that he will be at elevated risk if he plays this Saturday. They're simply clearing him based on formulaic symptom existence/the lack thereof.

Accordingly, I don't believe he'll be at his best regardless of what Texas' doctors say. He'll likely be tentative, less mobile, and potentially neurologically delayed (even if it's imperceptible outside of game-time conditions). It's likely that Texas will have a sub-optimal version of Arch if he plays, which I why I personally believe they should start Caldwell and see what happens. Not to mention the elevated risk factors I laid out above.

Edited by MuellerHorn
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Posted
28 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

 

 

The comparison is not between the two tests.  It's a question of how likely it is that someone could successfully bullshit his way through the concussion tests.  And I don't believe the answer can possibly be 0%.

And, drinking and driving was without question the dumbest thing I ever did.  I'm 12+ years sober now.

 

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Posted
If we were sitting here with just 1 loss to Ohio State, I would say I 100% agree with you. But our season is over if we lose tomorrow, so I think he has to play if he's cleared. 

Have you been ok with Tua trotting back out there?
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Posted
1 hour ago, Codaxx said:

I know absolutely nothing about the degree of Arch's concussion, so I am will just wait to hear what the doctors say about it. They clear him, he should play. If they dont, he should sit. 

Arch can’t be in the game if he is antsy and tentative……running scared and not wanting to get hit just won’t be effective.

Posted

Personally, I'd like to see them start Caldwell even if Arch is cleared.  If Caldwell gets in trouble, then yank and replace him with Arch.  GIve Arch a little more time to get his head right again. 

If Arch is tentative in the least to use his legs, I would think that's more dangerous to him than going flat out, and will make his decision making process that much slower per play.  If the defense feels he's not going to run, then they adjust and don't worry about covering him.  We saw that last year with Quinn.   

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Cairn Horn88 said:

Arch can’t be in the game if he is antsy and tentative……running scared and not wanting to get hit just won’t be effective.

That is a huge assumption. Like I said I have no idea about his injury or how Arch will react to it. Neither does anyone here, so we should probably just wait and see what happens on Saturday

Edited by Codaxx
Posted
1 minute ago, pyrohornIII said:

Personally, I'd like to see them start Caldwell even if Arch is cleared.  If Caldwell gets in trouble, then yank and replace him with Arch. 

If Caldwell gets in trouble (or injured), we're seeing Trey Owens or KJ Lacey.  We're not seeing Arch until Georgia at the earliest.

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Posted
17 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

Mack was the master at working the refs. It was hilarious how differently they have treated us since. Though not even he could get holding called in the Big 12.

Dude, yes he was. I was actually thinking that as I was typing. That dude, like they say in Tommy Boy, could sell a ketchup ice cream cone to an Eskimo. Man he was a snake oil salesman. He and Jimbo, man. Kirby is just a whining taint, and the refs shit their pants with Saban, but Mack and Jimbo are two of the best snake oil salesmen I've ever seen in my life. They could nab 5* after 5* with the gift of gab, but then after they got their titles they just put their feet up. We did have Colt, but he was recruited during the VY-era, but his o-line, just like Jimbo's were absolute trash. The only difference is we still had Colt and Shipley who literally willed our team to the NC, and everyone knows had Colt not gone down we would have whipped their asses. Even the Bama players admit it, which is kind of shocking. 

On a side note, during the Big XII CCG, I don't think, even to this day, I've ever seen a more dominant player in CFB than Suh. Suh was what Aaron Donald was in the NFL. Just an unstoppable machine. He made Chris Hall, David Snow, and DJ Jones bend so far down as he climbed over them that they were limber enough to lick their own assholes. He tossed them around like they were a middle school girls soccer team. 

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Posted
Arch has a hard enough time hitting stationary WRs 5 feet away. Now you guys want to throw a concussed Arch out there? 

Maybe if he’s seeing multiple wr, he can hit one easier.
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Posted
2 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:


Have you been ok with Tua trotting back out there?

This is going to be a truly sad story when he's done with football. I mean it, I sincerely believe he'll go out like Junior Seau and now Doug Martin (although it's yet to be confirmed, but he had been acting erratically with mental health struggles that he didn't have before and broke into a home and died in police custody. He jumped out of a second floor rehab center two months before his death). There is just no way he doesn't have advanced CTE. None whatsoever. He's had something like four or five that I know of. 

I think the saddest story I heard about was a recruit named Paul Oliver. He was in the 2004 class, but if I remember correctly he played at Georgia. He was an active player in the NFL during his fouth season with the Chargers when he one day went home and shot himself. They checked his brain and at only 29 he already had advanced CTE. 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, William Bludworth said:

This is going to be a truly sad story when he's done with football. I mean it, I sincerely believe he'll go out like Junior Seau and now Doug Martin (although it's yet to be confirmed, but he had been acting erratically with mental health struggles that he didn't have before and broke into a home and died in police custody. He jumped out of a second floor rehab center two months before his death). There is just no way he doesn't have advanced CTE. None whatsoever. He's had something like four or five that I know of. 

I think the saddest story I heard about was a recruit named Paul Oliver. He was in the 2004 class, but if I remember correctly he played at Georgia. He was an active player in the NFL during his fouth season with the Chargers when he one day went home and shot himself. They checked his brain and at only 29 he already had advanced CTE. 

Holy shit...

Death

Oliver died by suicide from a self-inflicted gunshot on September 24, 2013.[14] He is survived by his wife Chelsea (née Young), and two children.[15] Police on the incident state that Oliver shot himself in front of his wife and his two young boys.[16]

It was later determined through analysis of Oliver's brain that he suffered from an advanced form of chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or CTE, caused by repeated hits to the head he endured during his football playing career.[17] He is one of at least 345 NFL players to be diagnosed after death with this disease.[18]

Edited by MuellerHorn
Posted
Just now, MuellerHorn said:

Holy shit...

Death

Oliver died by suicide from a self-inflicted gunshot on September 24, 2013.[14] He is survived by his wife Chelsea (née Young), and two children.[15] Police on the incident state that Oliver shot himself in front of his wife and his two young boys.[16]

It was later determined through analysis of Oliver's brain that he suffered from an advanced form of chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or CTE, caused by repeated hits to the head he endured during his football playing career.[17] He is one of at least 345 NFL players to be diagnosed after death with this disease.[18]

Oh yeah, I forgot it was in front of his wife and kids. When I saw the video of him it broke my heart. 

Yeah, what's sad is had I not randomly clicked on that video on YouTube, I would have never known about it. So many players dying and it's barely spoken about. 

The NFL basically has your base level "concussions" meetings, but they don't give a shit about the pkayers because $$$. Boston University is the only university to actively study it full-time. Soccer players from the PL, La Liga, Ligue 1, and Bundesliga also havw guys taking their own lives after their playing days and a few while they were still playing. Same with Hockey, Lacrosse, etc. It's incredible that we don't see it come up more often, even veterans from Special Forces and the front lines. It's becoming more and more common, especially with veterans from IED explosions, collapsing buildings, being shot at and shit falling all over you, guys falling out of helicopters at take off. It's nuts, dude.

11 minutes ago, Gucci_Suit said:

I had a lot of concussions when I played football and I’m fine and stuff. 

You post on Surly as a past time, no you're not. 

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