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2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.


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Posted

We're going to get Vice President Kari Lake, the Democratic Party keeps punting this shit closer to the Convention.  

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Posted
1 hour ago, StassneyHorn said:

 @DixonHur @Loch Ness Monster and @Red Five get a fucking hold of yourselves.

Hey man, I'm a straight, white, cisgender male in my 50's with above average means.  I'll be fine either way.  

Worst case scenario is that I have to pretend to be Christian by going to church once a week.

If you guys think Biden or Harris are the answer, to keep us from Christo-fascism, I'll follow your lead.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

Keep up the schtick remarks they’ll land some day 

Joseph Biden is not winning the 2024 Presidential Election unless something drastically changes. Which leaves about two options: he has a string of non-embarrassing public appearances all the way until election (highly unlikely); or, Trump does something truly heinous that convinces apathetic voters that a literal corpse is absolutely the much better solution for themselves and America (I struggle to think of something "truly heinous" that would even land at this point).

But sure, call the rest of us Chicken Little because we have eyes and ears.

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Posted
8 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Hey man, I'm a straight, white, cisgender male in my 50's with above average means.  I'll be fine either way.  

Worst case scenario is that I have to pretend to be Christian by going to church once a week.

If you guys think Biden or Harris are the answer, to keep us from Christo-fascism, I'll follow your lead.

You keep thinking you’re the most important demographic and not the core. I’ve said plenty of times capturing the largest chunk of 2020 voters is the winner. We will NOT have more voters in 2024

1 minute ago, aggie08 said:

Joseph Biden is not winning the 2024 Presidential Election unless something drastically changes. Which leaves about two options: he has a string of non-embarrassing public appearances all the way until election (highly unlikely); or, Trump does something truly heinous that convinces apathetic voters that a literal corpse is absolutely the much better solution for themselves and America (I struggle to think of something "truly heinous" that would even land at this point).

But sure, call the rest of us Chicken Little because we have eyes and ears.

You are Chicken Smallest

Posted

The young people don’t realize seeing Biden at the debate was like watching the Billy Squier music video and thinking WTF after the songs before this were pretty cool. There’s no turning back now.IMG_4802.gif.f91e64233d80f41087bb8b1525680558.gif

Posted (edited)

That’s like YGIFS thinking Rock the Vote isn’t 28 years old while making a reference to youth vote.

EDIT: Oh shit your reference is 40 years old

Edited by StassneyHorn
Posted
3 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

You will get Joe B and you will vote for him unless you want a Supreme Court full of jagoffs and fascism you stupid fucks. Look around, we are already and have always been operating with a Biden leadership team.

I would vote for 99 year old Jimmy Carter over Trump but so what? The people posting in this thread are not who you need to convince.

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Posted

I think Biden's stutter is a big factor here that his campaign has done a shit job of staying in front of. Halting speech, word finding issues and losing train of thought are common for someone with a stutter. More specifically, they are common for Joe Biden. He looks worse than before, but under stress and fatigue, stuttering symptoms get markedly worse, and the stakes are currently fascism vs. democracy.  

CNN not fact checking left Biden with very little time to rebut a firehose of lies, and Biden's advisors tried to have him rebut each one. They should have focused Biden on picking the Trump lie he can work with the most, and rebutting that one lie thoroughly each time. Biden's advisors stupidly ran him ragged in debate prep, cramming useless facts for a debate that was always destined to turn into an insult-fest. 

All that created a worst possible case for someone with a stutter and it will have ripple effects for a long time. Every post-debate appearance just got much more high pressure and stress. 

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Posted

NSIAP. Report from washpo regarding the day of the debate. If true, this pisses me off how little Biden is aware of his condition. Link.

Quote

Joe Biden showed up late to the biggest test of his 54-year career. He told aides he didn’t need the CNN studio tour to show him the camera angles and lights. He had done debates for decades. They insisted anyway.

The motorcade was set to depart the Atlanta Hyatt Regency at 8 p.m., with reporters frantically rushed from dinner into vans. But Biden didn’t leave until 27 minutes later, arriving at the studio with less than 30 minutes to spare. He never learned where to look on the split screen when his opponent spoke.

Quote

After the debate, Trump was thinking about going to the spin room, but decided against it because Biden did so poorly. “No one was more shocked at Biden’s performance than Donald Trump,” said one adviser, ready to twist the knife. Afterward, Trump told aides that he couldn’t even look at Biden.

On the second quote, I don’t believe anything out of the Trump camp but I could see this being somewhat accurate.

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Posted
10 hours ago, Zonahorn said:

Gallego is ahead, but Biden is down.

image.png.dac82658f1aca36efa968ed3f9cc3313.png

For the idiots in the back:  BIDEN WAS NEVER WILDLY POPULAR, EVEN IN 2020!!!

He’s lagging Dem senate candidates in swing states because they don’t like Biden despite hating the GOP.  The campaign and Dem leadership trying to gaslight the nation into Weekend at Bernie’s is fucking insane, and an indictment against both his person, administration, and party.  It’s essentially the equivalent of political climate denial. 
 

You can’t claim the Democrats are the party of serious governance when they are running a man in clear mental decline who will have to actually president for 4 more years if elected.  

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Posted (edited)

It’s amazing to me that democrats like Stassneyhorn continue to live in denial. There is a small chance Biden could pull this out, but there are way way better odds of putting Harris in there instead.

The critical independents decide this election and they don’t want either candidate. I think with Harris and a proper hit campaign on Trump she would destroy Trump. 

Edit: just think about a debate between Trump and her. She would destroy him. She strong. She’s an ex prosecutor. She would annihilate him. It would be so awesome to see 

Edited by Dbeasy
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Posted
19 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

For the idiots in the back:  BIDEN WAS NEVER WILDLY POPULAR, EVEN IN 2020!!!

He’s lagging Dem senate candidates in swing states because they don’t like Biden despite hating the GOP.  The campaign and Dem leadership trying to gaslight the nation into Weekend at Bernie’s is fucking insane, and an indictment against both his person, administration, and party.  It’s essentially the equivalent of political climate denial. 
 

You can’t claim the Democrats are the party of serious governance when they are running a man in clear mental decline who will have to actually president for 4 more years if elected.  

There’s some sort of disconnect with those who don’t believe the polls showing Biden down but the democratic candidate up. Is it that hard to understand that they just don’t want Biden another 4 years? It’s like the magats that can’t wrap their head around how Biden had 80 million votes. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Pam Cummings said:

I don't give a fuck if Biden is dead I'm voting for him. Stop being dumbasses.

we all are.  and we will all be saying 'ha ha, if my guy would have won, we wouldn't have pulled out of nato/ended ACA/jammed the courts with 2.5GPA party hacks.  man, was i ever right.'

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Posted

Biden sent a 2 page letter to the House Dems saying he is firmly committed to staying in the race until the end. Saying the one job is to beat the Orange Cheeto. 
 

since we have really not seen anything like this: if he does not step aside will the convention be uneventful? Will everyone fall behind him/the talk of an open convention or blitz primaries is a pipe dream?

I would think if he doesn’t step aside everyone will fall in line behind him for the message. And for the job of beating Trump. I’m guessing that what happens. I would think the rhetoric dies down this week? Sort of a shut up and get in line type thing? 

Posted
6 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Biden released a letter to Capitol Hill Dems - he's not leaving the race 

Well, he's gambling with all our lives and the possible future of this democracy so let's hope it works out for all of us. I guess it's time to start focusing on getting as many Democrats in Congress as possible to jam up the works for 4 years. 

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Posted
6 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Well, he's gambling with all our lives and the possible future of this democracy so let's hope it works out for all of us. I guess it's time to start focusing on getting as many Democrats in Congress as possible to jam up the works for 4 years. 

Yes, obviously. But I haven’t given up - I know everyone is freaking out, but I think it’ll stabilize. The polls really didn’t move that much after the debate. Everything is baked on and I think most people know what’s at stake. Closer we get, the more real Trump 2.0 becomes.

Like we saw in France, desperate times call for desperate measures 

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Posted (edited)

the thing that is  always popping up in the back of my mind is how much the final polls were biased left in the deciding states [edit - in 2020 i mean].  something like +7 in MN/WI/MI and stuff like that.  this "it looks close still" in all these states makes me real nervous.

Edited by BehoId, The Underminer!
Posted
3 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

the thing that is  always popping up in the back of my mind is how much the final polls were biased left in the deciding states [edit - in 2020 i mean].  something like +7 in MN/WI/MI and stuff like that.  this "it looks close still" in all these states makes me real nervous.

That was mostly GOP non-response bias. I think you’re seeing the same now - panicked Dems are not going to answer the phone or might indicate undecided/third party. The goal is to get them to all come home by November and Trump is a great way for that to happen 

Posted

From his letter (very different tone):

This was a process open to anyone who wanted to run. Only three people chose to challenge me.

One fared so badly that he left the primaries to run as an independent. Another attacked me for being too old and was soundly defeated. The voters of the Democratic Party have voted. They have chosen me to be the nominee of the party.

Do we now just say this process didn't matter? That the voters don't have a say?

I decline to do that. 

Posted
23 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

Biden sent a 2 page letter to the House Dems saying he is firmly committed to staying in the race until the end. Saying the one job is to beat the Orange Cheeto. 
 

since we have really not seen anything like this: if he does not step aside will the convention be uneventful? Will everyone fall behind him/the talk of an open convention or blitz primaries is a pipe dream?

I would think if he doesn’t step aside everyone will fall in line behind him for the message. And for the job of beating Trump. I’m guessing that what happens. I would think the rhetoric dies down this week? Sort of a shut up and get in line type thing? 

If Biden doesn't step down, I don't think anyone is going to disrupt the convention.  The D faithful will put on a consolidated front for the cameras. The main effect of Biden staying in the race is that you won't see any enthusiasm for him from the people that don't identify as democrats, and you won't see money flowing in like it has from the BMD's that are growing disenfranchised with the Dems poor strategery.  What no one knows is how that donor and voter disenfranchisement is going to translate to vote totals in November.  In my circles in a light blue area of Colorado, it's going to cost Joe about 20% of the votes a young, moderate democrat would get.

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Posted
8 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

That’s like YGIFS thinking Rock the Vote isn’t 28 years old while making a reference to youth vote.

EDIT: Oh shit your reference is 40 years old

I know that’s decades old.  I use it as a metonym/macro placeholder for “get out younger voters.”  I berate points, I get it.  We all forget as very politically engaged folks with that luxury that most 20-something’s didn’t engage when we were in our 20’s and they still don’t.  They haven’t had a significant impact since Vietnam.  Plus “Rock the Vote” went downhill after they refused to let Frank Stallone headline. 
 

Now here’s a pickle to chew on.  Got an email this morning notifying me of heightened security at Biden’s appearance at LBJ in a week’s time.  They are anticipating lots of protestors so do this, park here, don’t do that, etc.  Five minutes later, story released across multiple outlets that Abbott and Eltife ordering UT to clamp down further on pro-Palestinian rallies/protests.  I’m thinking those two set this all into motion before the White House revealed Biden’s visit.  You’d think they’d wanna have more protests during Biden’s visit to make him look bad.  
 

This fucking simulation…

Posted
32 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

Biden sent a 2 page letter to the House Dems saying he is firmly committed to staying in the race until the end. Saying the one job is to beat the Orange Cheeto. 
 

since we have really not seen anything like this: if he does not step aside will the convention be uneventful? Will everyone fall behind him/the talk of an open convention or blitz primaries is a pipe dream?

I would think if he doesn’t step aside everyone will fall in line behind him for the message. And for the job of beating Trump. I’m guessing that what happens. I would think the rhetoric dies down this week? Sort of a shut up and get in line type thing? 

Short of exercising the 25th Amendment, there is no leverage to force out a President who is simply convinced that everything is fine and he is the best person to beat Trump in November. He’ll play chicken with donors who threaten to withhold donations, knowing that if he stays in long enough, they’ll donate again because they don’t want Trump. His polling has dipped, but isn’t cratering and he thinks the race is a toss up. The people he trusts most are family and they are telling him to stay the course. He apparently carries a chip on his shoulder with the Obama and Clinton crowd, and any pressure they try to exert is likely to be counterproductive. 

For anyone interested in a good discussion of the above, watch Mark Halperin’s latest Zoom call from yesterday. 
 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, mdmost said:

And a good portion of America is saying that's the problem. You binary people want to make it a if you don't support Biden, you support Trump which is simplistic bullshit. There's a lot of people out there (READ NOT IN HERE FOR THE THOUSANDTH TIME) who just simply won't vote for either guy, which leads to Trump winning. 1 million people died, the economy was in the shitter, protests were happening all over the country, and still Biden barely won in the swing states in 2020. There is little enthusiasm for Biden now that he's even older. Lack of enthusiasm will lead to people just throwing up their hands and not giving a shit. So unless Biden figures out some magical message that galvanizes people to head to the polls for him versus staying home, we're going to all be turbofucked. 

No one in this fucking thread is voting for Trump or staying home. We all get it. We're just sad that this is what it has gotten to because Biden is finally showing the signs that everyone feared might crop up.  

I don't think that not supporting Biden = supporting Trump. But I think the only way Trump wins is if there is a very public discussion about Biden being old and senile. Which is fucking stupid. That's what they want. Don't fall for that shit.

 

Every news network on earth jumping on a guy because he stumbled in a "debate" where the 2 candidates argued about their golf scores for fucks sake. And not one outlet questions the sanity of Trump? It's all about Biden? GTFO.

Edited by Pam Cummings
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Posted (edited)

That letter is straight up “Fuck you, pay me”

 

The “you had a chance and chose not to run and I won the primary is such bullshit”. I’m sure Gretch, Newsom, Pritsker were calling around last fall looking for finance and got a stiff face palm from the BMDs, because the Biden people were twisting arms.

Edited by Bateshorn
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Posted
1 minute ago, mdmost said:

And a good portion of America is saying that's the problem. You binary people want to make it a if you don't support Biden, you support Trump which is simplistic bullshit. There's a lot of people out there (READ NOT IN HERE FOR THE THOUSANDTH TIME) who just simply won't vote for either guy, which leads to Trump winning. 1 million people died, the economy was in the shitter, protests were happening all over the country, and still Biden barely won in the swing states in 2020. There is little enthusiasm for Biden now that he's even older. Lack of enthusiasm will lead to people just throwing up their hands and not giving a shit. So unless Biden figures out some magical message that galvanizes people to head to the polls for him versus staying home, we're going to all be turbofucked. 

No one in this fucking thread is voting for Trump or staying home. We all get it. We're just sad that this is what it has gotten to because Biden is finally showing the signs that everyone feared might crop up.  

Well said.

I think we often forget that we are all college educated adults of above average means and who are well informed. That makes us, what, the top 10% of the citizenry? 

Think of the dumbest person you know, cut his IQ in half and then copy and paste that guy 200 million times and you have half the electorate.

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Posted
Just now, Pam Cummings said:

I don't think that not supporting Biden = supporting Trump. But I think the only way Trump wins is if there is a very public discussion about Biden being old and senile. Which is fucking stupid. That's what they want. Don't fall for that shit.

I don't need the media to tell me what my eyes clearly see. And I'm not the one you need to convince. That's the problem with the messaging this shitty party and its candidate puts out. I'm skeptical Biden is capable of delivering that message now. He couldn't do it on the largest stage he had. 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, mdmost said:

I don't need the media to tell me what my eyes clearly see. And I'm not the one you need to convince. That's the problem with the messaging this shitty party and its candidate puts out. I'm skeptical Biden is capable of delivering that message now. He couldn't do it on the largest stage he had. 

He's been the president for 4 years now. Don't you think if he was really dumb and senile shit would be a lot worse? I don't see anyone connecting any dots of his old senility to bad policies or bad decisions being made?

 

Did your eyes and ears clearly see him being fine at speeches after the debate?

Edited by Pam Cummings
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Posted
2 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

He's been the president for 4 years now. Don't you think if he was really dumb and senile shit would be a lot worse? I don't see anyone connecting any dots of his old senility to bad policies or bad decisions being made?

I don't think he's dumb or senile. I think he's slowing down and his staff has done a pretty good job of controlling his appearances. The debate wasn't an environment they could control for him and he's not as quick as he once was. 2020 Biden would've knocked down more than half the bullshit Trump was slinging at the debate. I don't feel 2024 Biden is capable of that and there will be no more debates for him to win. Whomever is advising Trump to stand down is doing yeoman's work. That's how you win a campaign. 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

He's been the president for 4 years now. Don't you think if he was really dumb and senile shit would be a lot worse? I don't see anyone connecting any dots of his old senility to bad policies or bad decisions being made?

 

Did your eyes and ears clearly see him being fine at speeches after the debate?

My eyes and ears saw the debacle in Afghanistan. My eyes and ears saw him swinging his dick around about Biden Bucks and then inflation took off.  My eyes and ears saw his unwavering support for Israel when a core constituency in Michigan is Arab, and Netanyahu is openly pining for Trumps return.  My eyes and ears saw a year of clown car negotiations about IRA before it came to fruition. 
 

He’s had a monumental presidency, but it’s also had some serious peaks and valley’s.  I’m politically plugged in and understand each of those things I listed is a nuanced, complex conversation.

To the half wit independents who are going to decide this  election, he’s the inflation guy who is Old. As. Fuck. 

Edited by Bateshorn
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Posted

My initial thought was (before listening to his biographer) that Biden would step aside and it would be all hands on deck with the party for Kamala and that the excitement would come from largely from the selection of her running mate. But after listening to Biden’s biographer I realized there was no way Biden would willingly step aside. 
 

as a former Republican I am keenly interested in what’s happening bc it’s historic. The idea of an open primary which now seems unlikely.

I was thinking what if Trump slipped on a banana peel? And he was incapacitated (permanently)What would happen this close to a convention? Would there be an open convention? 

but I guess all the talk in the press and mostly private rumblings are for naught because I do not think the delegates will take their support from Biden. So it will be a typical convention I guess. 
 

 

Posted
1 minute ago, Bateshorn said:

My eyes and ears saw the debacle in Afghanistan. My eyes and ears saw him swinging his dick around about Biden Bucks and then inflation took off.  My eyes and ears saw his unwavering support for Israel when a core constituency in Michigan is an Arab, and Netanyahu is openly pining for Trumps return.  My eyes and ears saw a year of clown car negotiations about IRA before it came to fruition. 
 

He’s had a monumental presidency, but it’s also had some serious peaks and valley’s.  I’m politically plugged in and understand each of those things I listed is a nuanced, complex conversation.

To the half wit independents who are going to decide this  election, he’s the inflation guy who is Old. As. Fuck. 

Again I repeat: this isn't the fault of you or I. And I certainly respect that his presidency isn't perfect and there are things he could have or should have done better. Did all of those things you listed happen because he is old and senile? Or is it more nuanced? All I'm saying.

 

The blame for all of this lies with the media. They are more concerned with money than being informative. They don't push back on bullshit. They allow a landscape to exist where people call Biden old and senile but Trump is perfectly fine. This is really their fault. I think that a lot needs to change in our media landscape for shit to go back to normal.

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Posted
34 minutes ago, Goredho said:

If Biden doesn't step down, I don't think anyone is going to disrupt the convention.  The D faithful will put on a consolidated front for the cameras. The main effect of Biden staying in the race is that you won't see any enthusiasm for him from the people that don't identify as democrats, and you won't see money flowing in like it has from the BMD's that are growing disenfranchised with the Dems poor strategery.  What no one knows is how that donor and voter disenfranchisement is going to translate to vote totals in November.  In my circles in a light blue area of Colorado, it's going to cost Joe about 20% of the votes a young, moderate democrat would get.

yep

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Posted
1 hour ago, Bateshorn said:

For the idiots in the back:  BIDEN WAS NEVER WILDLY POPULAR, EVEN IN 2020!!!

He’s lagging Dem senate candidates in swing states because they don’t like Biden despite hating the GOP.  The campaign and Dem leadership trying to gaslight the nation into Weekend at Bernie’s is fucking insane, and an indictment against both his person, administration, and party.  It’s essentially the equivalent of political climate denial. 
 

You can’t claim the Democrats are the party of serious governance when they are running a man in clear mental decline who will have to actually president for 4 more years if elected.  

and this

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Posted
3 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Whomever is advising Trump to stand down is doing yeoman's work. That's how you win a campaign. 

I’m only half kidding when I say that the Republicans are probably looking for a way to push back their convention a few weeks to avoid shifting the focus to them. 

Posted
35 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

From his letter (very different tone):

This was a process open to anyone who wanted to run. Only three people chose to challenge me.

One fared so badly that he left the primaries to run as an independent. Another attacked me for being too old and was soundly defeated. The voters of the Democratic Party have voted. They have chosen me to be the nominee of the party.

Do we now just say this process didn't matter? That the voters don't have a say?

I decline to do that. 

Well, that's certainly some in denial bullshit. 

He's the sitting President and, as such, no one serious about the office ran challenged him. There were no debates. If was a guaranteed win, just like it's always been for the sitting President. He was also just "Grandpa Joe" a few months ago, not "let's start looking at homes, Joe".

He has to ask himself, "Would I have won the nomination in 2020 in my current condition (even with 4 years of incumbency and policy success)?" The answer to that is no.

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Posted
32 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

I refuse to be a part of any political discourse that holds one candidate to a different standard than the other. I refuse to sit by and watch people talk about Biden being unfit while the alternative candidate is a raving lunatic. I refuse to watch or consume any of this concern trolling that is happening in the media, who is only concerned with dividing so that they can make more money for their shareholders.

 

Biden is the same person he was before the debate. If you lot wanted another candidate you had your chance to make it happen.

 

22 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

I don't think that not supporting Biden = supporting Trump. But I think the only way Trump wins is if there is a very public discussion about Biden being old and senile. Which is fucking stupid. That's what they want. Don't fall for that shit.

This isn't about giving Trump a pass for being what he is.  This is about making sure that a man like Trump doesn't take the steering wheel again by giving him an adversary that doesn't mumble and drool when matched up against him in a forum where voters can see them side by side in real time.  People are talking about Biden being old and senile because he showed himself to be that during a live debate against Trump where all Trump had to do was let Biden talk.  You and Biden can't control the narrative because people saw what they fucking saw.  If people aren't seeing what Trump is and talking about that, it's because Biden has failed to show them.  Because he was incapable of doing so in that debate.  He could only show himself to be old and feeble.  That's the reality we face, no matter what you want anyone else to believe.

I am incredibly disappointed and disgusted with the Democratic Party at the moment.  They and their base are showing that they also value their party over country.  That does not mean I'm going to vote for Trump, but it does mean I've lost faith in the opposition and I will not be contributing my energy and resources for them to continue to squander ineptly.  I'll save it for whatever succeeds them that hasn't proven itself to be a fucking clown show.

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Posted
22 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

He's been the president for 4 years now. Don't you think if he was really dumb and senile shit would be a lot worse? I

he's never in public.  obama spent his time going to franklin bbq and chatting with letterman so there was no way to think he was hiding anything.  there isn't a lot of bad material on biden because there isn't a lot of material on biden.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Goredho said:

 

This isn't about giving Trump a pass for being what he is.  

Yes it is. That's exactly what this is. This is "let's spend all our time talking about Biden being old(something we've all known for his entire presidency, he didn't wake up and suddenly turn 83), and never talk about the fact that Trump is a felon, liar, more senile, and oh yeah, a fascist".

 

Nobody is talking about any of those things because the rich elite control the media and are currently using it to divide and conquer. That is the main takeaway I get from reading this thread.

Edited by Pam Cummings
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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Goredho said:

 

This isn't about giving Trump a pass for being what he is.  This is about making sure that a man like Trump doesn't take the steering wheel again by giving him an adversary that doesn't mumble and drool when matched up against him in a forum where voters can see them side by side in real time.  People are talking about Biden being old and senile because he showed himself to be that during a live debate against Trump where all Trump had to do was let Biden talk.  You and Biden can't control the narrative because people saw what they fucking saw.  If people aren't seeing what Trump is and talking about that, it's because Biden has failed to show them.  Because he was incapable of doing so in that debate.  He could only show himself to be old and feeble.  That's the reality we face, no matter what you want anyone else to believe.

I am incredibly disappointed and disgusted with the Democratic Party at the moment.  They and their base are showing that they also value their party over country.  That does not mean I'm going to vote for Trump, but it does mean I've lost faith in the opposition and I will not be contributing my energy and resources for them to continue to squander ineptly.  I'll save it for whatever succeeds them that hasn't proven itself to be a fucking clown show.

This. I’ve been voting since 92.  This year, when I walk into my DC precinct, where my vote is largely meaningless, will be the most hold my nose and vote for a candidate I don’t believe in during my lifetime.  And that includes John Fucking Kerry.  

Edited by Bateshorn
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