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29 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

Apparently Chris Lowe is reporting that if Mario leaves for Miami then Oregon’s #1 target will be chip Kelly. @Sbbruin might get sucked in regardless of not firing the guy. 

If that happens, the @Sbbruins will have to go hard in the paint on their hire to keep up with USC and Lincoln's thunder. Trojans have all the momentum in their little local slap fight right now.

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5 minutes ago, utexas8 said:

 

 

 


Damn. Lol.

 

 

To be fair - BON twitter account seems regarded. I knew Caleb was hanging 30 on us the minute he came in the game. Any Texas fan with a few working brain cells wanted Rattler in that game. 

But yeah - talk about a killshot to your dumbass Twitter account. 

Edited by ztejas
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11 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

I remember when we thought Texas would get the same type production with Sark as the OC from Alabama. Maybe it still happens. 

Y’all expected Alabama production with Texas players. We’ll settle for competence and a top 20 defense. 

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6 minutes ago, Js1 said:

K cool. The talent disparity is still pretty big between us and you. But don’t expect a 2 loss season with the mass exodus you had.

Youre tolerated here, don’t be a douche 

OU fans were going crazy about how Sark wouldn't translate because the talent wasn't comparable to Alabama now they think the defensive talent at OU is comparable to Clemson. 

Good times. 

The hypocrisy is great. 

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9 minutes ago, Constant said:

I don’t think we’ll lose 6 straight including Kansas at home. We’ll be alright.

Two external hires ago under a first year HC you lost at home by 28 to Kansas. Two seasons later under that same HC you bookended a 5 game losing streak with a 1 point win over TCU and a 3 point win over ISU. 

So really you aren't that far removed from doing pretty much what you just described. 

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2 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

OU fans were going crazy about how Sark wouldn't translate because the talent wasn't comparable to Alabama now they think the defensive talent at OU is comparable to Clemson. 

Good times. 

The hypocrisy is great. 

I think the difference is Venables is the reason for Clemson’s elite defensive recruiting. His arrival there started their rise to elite. 
 

Sark is just another OC in the black hole of Saban’s empire. He was there for one season and had nothing to do with building its greatness. 

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4 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Two external hires ago under a first year HC you lost at home by 28 to Kansas. Two seasons later under that same HC you bookended a 5 game losing streak with a 1 point win over TCU and a 3 point win over ISU. 

So really you aren't that far removed from doing pretty much what you just described. 

We aren’t far removed the mid 90’s?

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2 minutes ago, Constant said:

I think the difference is Venables is the reason for Clemson’s elite defensive recruiting. His arrival there started their rise to elite. 
 

Sark is just another OC in the black hole of Saban’s empire. He was there for one season and had nothing to do with building its greatness. 

The Bama offense was less effective immediately before and after Sark

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Just now, Constant said:

I think the difference is Venables is the reason for Clemson’s elite defensive recruiting. His arrival there started their rise to elite. 
 

Sark is just another OC in the black hole of Saban’s empire. He was there for one season and had nothing to do with building its greatness. 

Maybe, I dunno. 

Was Venables landing a bunch of top 100 composite defensive talent at OU when he was there? I need to go back and see how he recruited at OU. Seems to me Clemson had to do a lot with Venables recruiting similar to Bama but like I said I need to go back to see how Venables recruited at OU. 

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2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

OU fans will convince themselves Venables is a great hire. 

Texas fans will convince themselves that Venables will not be a good Head Coach. 

History favors OU here, but also OU sucks. 

Advantage: push 

 

Thing is I don't think it's a terrible hire. It's a very risky hire and type hire that fails often. 

There were much better hires that could have potentially been made like Kiffin, Napier and Fickell. I would say the same thing about Sark as I would have preferred Kelly, Fickell, or Franklin (please Texas fans don't come for me). 

Edited by texasstrong12
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2 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Maybe, I dunno. 

Was Venables landing a bunch of top 100 composite defensive talent at OU when he was there? I need to go back and see how he recruited at OU. Seems to me Clemson had to do a lot with Venables recruiting similar to Bama but like I said I need to go back to see how Venables recruited at OU. 

I’m no Clemson historian, but they hired him right after 2011 when they got destroyed by WVU 70-33. He was as much a part of turning them into a powerhouse as Dabo. 

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Just now, Constant said:

I’m no Clemson historian, but they hired him right after 2011 when they got destroyed by WVU 70-33. He was as much a part of turning them into a powerhouse as Dabo. 

Sure but that doesn't mean Clemson's bag game and Dabo's ability to hire didn't assist Venables in recruiting. 

You should break down Venables recruiting at OU and Clemson. Show me Venables was landing similar talent at both schools. Maybe he was, I have no clue. 

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Did Deshaun Watson or Trevor Lawrence have anything to do with Clemsons recruiting?

Why would a Kyler Murray, Jalen Hurts or Caleb Williams sign up for Venables?

Could see Caleb staying at ou since he's already there but not sure about future #1 QB recruits.

Edited by Loch Ness Monster
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Venables recruited really well at OU on that side of the ball. Not as good as Clemson but OU got players. 
 

He is a pretty good coordinator choice for HC. He has spent two decades on the inside of championship level, well run teams and knows how that works. He’s not just a whiz kid play caller who takes things by storm. He’s stuck around and helped build two programs and knows how it works. 

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OU's defensive level talent dropped off considerably after Venables left.  He's a really good recruiter and at this point, knows the South pretty well, which will help with the SEC move.  Lebby and the rest of the staff know Texas well.

Also irrelevant whether the offense is Kiffin's or Lebby's.  It's not like football is some secret sauce.  He'll run what he wants to run.  Either way, Ole Miss has run up and down the field on everyone the past years.

Also agree on Williams staying.  They'll also keep the good WR's and they'll get some RB's.  Schedule is trash next year.  They'll be fine.

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Just now, Aqua Buddha said:

OU's defensive level talent dropped off considerably after Venables left.  He's a really good recruiter and at this point, knows the South pretty well, which will help with the SEC move.  Lebby and the rest of the staff know Texas well.

Also irrelevant whether the offense is Kiffin's or Lebby's.  It's not like football is some secret sauce.  He'll run what he wants to run.  Either way, Ole Miss has run up and down the field on everyone the past years.

Also agree on Williams staying.  They'll also keep the good WR's and they'll get some RB's.  Schedule is trash next year.  They'll be fine.

Just take a look at OU All-Americans after 2011 and before. 1999-2011 is full of defenders, including guys like Tommie Harris and evil Roy Williams. Of course, Stoops also made his bones as a defensive coach but Venables got players there.

https://soonersports.com/sports/2019/8/14/208798539.aspx

 

 

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8 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

OU fans were going crazy about how Sark wouldn't translate because the talent wasn't comparable to Alabama now they think the defensive talent at OU is comparable to Clemson. 

Good times. 

The hypocrisy is great. 

You're right. OU's defense won't have the same talent as Clemson's in 2022. It's also true that OU's defense wasn't all that talented near the end of Venables tenure as as OU's DC. At that time, the DL coach had stopped recruiting and the DB was coach's greatest qualification was being Stoops golfing buddy.

Here's how Venables last 3 defense at OU fared (prior defenses were as good or better):

Year     National F+ rank (average of SP+ and FEI)
2009     2
2010    13
2011     9

This was back when we'd see defensive guys in the program be total zeros for 3-4 years and suddenly become all-conference players in their Jr or Sr season. I look forward to seeing this type of development again.

OU's defensive production has continued to lag behind its recruiting rankings. The one position group that's shown development, the DL, is hopefully going to keep it's position coaches Thibs and Cain. The LBs have underperformed. Odom was well-regarded coming from Missouri and is an Oklahoma native who played at OU for a year. He's recruited pretty well. I don't know if he stays because Venables is an OUTSTANDING LB coach, and I'm sure will have thoughts.

The area I'm really looking for improvement is in the DB unit. There is a lot of talent (based on the star rankings) and a lot of interesting body types. The baffling, bipolar decisions OU made allotting playing time frustrated many fans including me. Pat Fields seems like a great guy, but think of him as Blake Gideon wearing a different uniform. Fields played more snaps than any other OU defender.

Overall, I think Venables track record at OU and Clemson more strongly predict success for OU's defense than Sark's prior record did for the UT offense.

 

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One good way to do this is review NFL draft information.  It is the best way to assess talent level at the schools.  It's not clear if it is recruiting, development, or both.  Moreover, there is almost no way to determine the root cause of the effectiveness of talent acquisition: bag game, charismatic head coaches (Swinney > Stoops), etc.

Venables' final year at OU was 2011, so he had considerable contribution to folks drafted through the 2014 draft.  Here are the OU defensive players drafted from 2008-2014:

2008 - Curtis Loftin (LB, 2); Reggie Smith (CB, 3)
2009 - Nic Harrs (s, 5)
2010 - Gerald McCoy (DT, 1); Keenan Clayton (LB, 4); Dominique Franks (CB, 5)
2011 - Quinton Carter (S, 4); Jonathon Nelson (CB, 7); Jeremy Beal (LB, 7)
2012 - Jamell Fleming (CB, 3); Frank Alexander (DE, 4); Ronnell Lewis (LB, 4); Travis Lewis (OLB, 7)
2013 - Stacy McGee (DT, 6); David King (DE, 7)
2014 - Aaron Colvin (CB, 4); Corey Nelson (LB, 7)

The defense was good, but not stocked with NFL talent.

I'l leave the deep dive into Clemson NFL draftees to someone else (or I'll look at it later), but here are some highlights
2016 - DE in 1st; LB, 2 CB in 2nd; LB in 4th; DT in 5th; S in 7th 
2017 - CB in 3rd; DT in 4th
2018 - 2 defensive players drafted
2019 - 3 DL drafted in 1st round, 1 CB in 2nd round; 2 more from defense drafted later
2020 - LB, CB in 1st round, LB in 3rd round; S in 4th; 
2021 - zero players from defense drafted

Again, I have no idea the root cause ($$, recruiting, development).  However, I see the players at Clemson as being far superior to what he had at OU.  

Edited by boilerhorn
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I looked at this quickly so numbers might be kind of off. 

OU composite 100 defensive recruits under Venables (last 5 seasons)-

"11 (1)

'10 (2)

'09 (5)

'08 (1)

'07 (1)

Clemson's composite 100 defensive recruits under Venables (last 5 seasons)-

'22 (4)

'21 (3)

'20 (6)

'19 (1)

'18 (3) 

Outside of the '09 cycle, Venables wasn't exactly raking in a bunch of high profile recruits at OU. 

Edited by texasstrong12
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2 minutes ago, boilerhorn said:

The best way to do this is review NFL draft information.  It is the best way to assess talent level at the schools.  It's not clear if it is recruiting, development, or both.  Moreover, there is almost no way to determine the root cause of the effectiveness of talent acquisition: bag game, charismatic head coaches (Swinney > Stoops), etc.

Venables' final year at OU was 2011, so he had considerable contribution to folks drafted through the 2014 draft.  Here are the OU defensive players drafted from 2008-2014:

2008 - Curtis Loftin (LB, 2); Reggie Smith (CB, 3)
2009 - Nic Harrs (s, 5)
2010 - Gerald McCoy (DT, 1); Keenan Clayton (LB, 4); Dominique Franks (CB, 5)
2011 - Quinton Carter (S, 4); Jonathon Nelson (CB, 7); Jeremy Beal (LB, 7)
2012 - Jamell Fleming (CB, 3); Frank Alexander (DE, 4); Ronnell Lewis (LB, 4); Travis Lewis (OLB, 7)
2013 - Stacy McGee (DT, 6); David King (DE, 7)
2014 - Aaron Colvin (CB, 4); Corey Nelson (LB, 7)

The defense was good, but not stocked with NFL talent.

I'l leave the deep dive into Clemson NFL draftees to someone else (or I'll look at it later), but here are some highlights
2016 - DE in 1st; LB, 2 CB in 2nd; LB in 4th; DT in 5th; S in 7th 
2017 - CB in 3rd; DT in 4th
2018 - 2 defensive players drafted
2019 - 3 DL drafted in 1st round, 1 CB in 2nd round; 2 more from defense drafted later
2020 - LB, CB in 1st round, LB in 3rd round; S in 4th; 
2021 - zero players from defense drafted

Again, I have no idea the root cause ($$, recruiting, development).  However, I see the players at Clemson as being far superior to what he had at OU.  

The recruiting comparisons in the last 5 years at OU and Clemson definitely back this up. 

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27 minutes ago, Constant said:

I’m no Clemson historian, but they hired him right after 2011 when they got destroyed by WVU 70-33. He was as much a part of turning them into a powerhouse as Dabo. 

 

24 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Sure but that doesn't mean Clemson's bag game and Dabo's ability to hire didn't assist Venables in recruiting. 

You should break down Venables recruiting at OU and Clemson. Show me Venables was landing similar talent at both schools. Maybe he was, I have no clue. 

It's both. Dabo is the closer and the one who built it, but there is definitely a significant number of recruits who came to Clemson to play for BV. 

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