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Posted

Corn lobby is too strong for us to ban hfcs or even raise taxes on it. And I assume the sugar industry is no where in position to take over from hfcs.

RFK Jr. may talk a big game about bans but he has to answer to Trump. Trump won’t let it happen. 

Posted

Wonder what the "RELIGIOUS LIBERTY!!!!" crowd will say about this.  Prolly nothing:

 

The incoming Trump administration intends to rescind a long-standing policy that has prevented Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents from arresting immigrants at or near so-called sensitive locations, such as houses of worship, schools and hospitals or events like funerals, weddings and public demonstrations without approval from supervisors, according to three sources familiar with the plan. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/trump-scrap-restriction-ice-arrests-churches-schools-rcna183688

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Posted
1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Are there really many Americans that go hungry these days? Genuinely asking. I know it's not zero but I have to guess that even the extreme poor have access to food, if they pursue it. Not talking about healthy food but calories to get them through the day. I could see that someone with mental or physical illness going without just because of the challenges of their diseases.

 

Let me assure you, there are. Try volunteering at your local food bank and see all the people that go underserved by charities. 

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Posted
3 hours ago, Nivek said:

Bumper sticker solutions get bumper sticker results.   We have a systemic issues in this country as we have moved to needing convenience due to time constraints and the options are often bastardized and addictive.   It is easy to blame society and individuals when you ignore or do not seek out data to inform yourself.   See an example chart below.   What happened?  (source: https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-statistics/overweight-obesity )

 

 

Graph-8-revised.jpg?imbypass=true

 

Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, CTC2 said:

Let me assure you, there are. Try volunteering at your local food bank and see all the people that go underserved by charities. 

What and not go to Vegas to do lines off of a stripper's ass? /Wounded Warrior Project CEO et al.  (Probably)

Edited by Nivek
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Posted
1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Wonder what the "RELIGIOUS LIBERTY!!!!" crowd will say about this.  Prolly nothing:

 

The incoming Trump administration intends to rescind a long-standing policy that has prevented Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents from arresting immigrants at or near so-called sensitive locations, such as houses of worship, schools and hospitals or events like funerals, weddings and public demonstrations without approval from supervisors, according to three sources familiar with the plan. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/trump-scrap-restriction-ice-arrests-churches-schools-rcna183688

Yeah.  If anyone wants to know how this goes, check out our own AG, darling of the Religious Right and the "MUH RELIGIOUS LIBERTIES!" crowd (when it comes to the deeply held religious belief of "God commands me to be a total dick to all the people I hate").  You know, the AG who in the past months has sued more churches and religious institutions than our last 10 AGs combined.  He just sues them for doing things like feeding the homeless and providing shelter to immigrants (who, by the way, are sent there BY government officials).

"Religious Liberty" is but one of the massive lies they've told.  They only mean it for THEIR beliefs (you know, the caustic and cruel ones), not any others.

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Posted
27 minutes ago, Nivek said:

What and not go to Vegas to do lines off of a stripper's ass? /Wounded Warrior Project CEO et al.  (Probably)

Lest this become a thing, there’s no connection to the Wounded Warrior Project and Hegseth.  Probably we can dig up some controversy on the former but I’ve also seen lots of actual charity from their fundraising for San Antonio veterans receiving treatment at BAMC.  
 

It’s pretty sad that a multiple amputee needs to have a charitable organization pay for remodeling his house so that he can move about in a wheel chair, rather than VA money, but that’s the reality.  

 

Posted
3 hours ago, Incredulity said:

It actually a success of our(free market capitalism) food production and distribution system.  For the first time in human history food is so abundant and cheap the poor can get fat as fuck.

This + expert marketing.  The people doing the marketing are way, way smarter than the people buying shit food.

Posted
16 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah.  If anyone wants to know how this goes, check out our own AG, darling of the Religious Right and the "MUH RELIGIOUS LIBERTIES!" crowd (when it comes to the deeply held religious belief of "God commands me to be a total dick to all the people I hate").  You know, the AG who in the past months has sued more churches and religious institutions than our last 10 AGs combined.  He just sues them for doing things like feeding the homeless and providing shelter to immigrants (who, by the way, are sent there BY government officials).

"Religious Liberty" is but one of the massive lies they've told.  They only mean it for THEIR beliefs (you know, the caustic and cruel ones), not any others.

Harris not going to the Al Smith dinner = Dems hate Catholics

Trump using the military to storm Catholic churches = oh well

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Posted
4 hours ago, Pasken said:

Real sugar acts as an appetite suppressant so you might see people actually consuming less calories due to reduced hunger as their digestive system processes the cane sugar. 

Can you expound on your first sentence?

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Posted
5 hours ago, G650 said:

I mean, I've said for 20 years food should be more expensive, not less, so we are not going to agree on this.

 

It should cost what the free market dictates it costs. Except we don't have a free market. Which means it would be more expensive, so I guess we agree. 

 

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Posted
1 minute ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

It should cost what the free market dictates it costs. Except we don't have a free market. Which means it would be more expensive, so I guess we agree. 

 

christmas vacation GIF

Posted
5 hours ago, G650 said:

No, I mean all of it. I also support things like UBI and strong social nets so I'm not talking about making anyone go hungry. But the cost of food has become so divorced from the cost of it's production it's distorted society as a whole.

I want more expensive food, but also subsidize people to eat it, this is dumb. 

Either chose one or the other.

Posted
On 12/8/2024 at 10:52 AM, mdmost said:

So Trump said this morning on NBC that he will end birthright citizenship and deport the families of illegals even if they were born here. Not sure how you get around the 14th amendment but he will try. So again, people who were born here to parents who are undocumented and you voted for Trump, how you feeling about that now?

How far back are we taking this? I have my eye on some land.

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Posted
16 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I want more expensive food, but also subsidize people to eat it, this is dumb. 

Either chose one or the other.

You can’t be this dumb. Farmers are highly subsidized. His argument is to let market forces dictate the cost of food and move the money from farmers to consumers. Just as you say to choose one or the other, he has. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, royiv said:

You can’t be this dumb. Farmers are highly subsidized. His argument is to let market forces dictate the cost of food and move the money from farmers to consumers. Just as you say to choose one or the other, he has. 

Then subsidized the people with UabI. I think you're missing that part.

Posted
23 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I want more expensive food, but also subsidize people to eat it, this is dumb. 

Either chose one or the other.

I know thinking isn't your strong suit, but maybe ponder what I said and look at you are saying here, which isn't the same thing.

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Posted
2 hours ago, LCHorn said:

Lest this become a thing, there’s no connection to the Wounded Warrior Project and Hegseth.  Probably we can dig up some controversy on the former but I’ve also seen lots of actual charity from their fundraising for San Antonio veterans receiving treatment at BAMC.  
 

It’s pretty sad that a multiple amputee needs to have a charitable organization pay for remodeling his house so that he can move about in a wheel chair, rather than VA money, but that’s the reality.  

 

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/08/09/after-public-crisis-and-fall-grace-wounded-warrior-project-quietly-regains-ground.html

 

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Posted
8 minutes ago, safe sex said:

I hate to break it to you, but...

Okay, so I stop giving my dollar to store so  grandma can get it cheaper, I give it to grandma instead. I hope your name is true. I don't want you to reproduce.

Posted
1 minute ago, TexArcher said:

Over half of this country just voted for a con man rapist who told them to their faces that he would become a fascist dictator on Day 1.

That same half ignored the world's most renowned immunologist during a pandemic because they thought their veterinarians had better intel on how to proceed.

Yeah, he definitely can be that dumb.

And he's just getting warmed up.

 

Not even veterinarians.  Some random-ass dude on the internet.

I don't think many vets were promoting ivermectin for human COVID.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Over half of this country just voted for a con man rapist who told them to their faces that he would become a fascist dictator on Day 1.

Most of those same people ignored the world's most renowned immunologist during a pandemic because they thought their veterinarians had better intel on how to proceed.

So, yeah, he definitely can be that dumb.

And he's probably just getting warmed up.

 

I didn't vote, but keep this strawman of me up. 

Posted
5 hours ago, linux said:

This is a really good video with the most up to date science that probably needs to be universal knowledge, the gist of it is that in the medium to long term the body will consume the same amount of calories despite work out routines (or around a 5-10% difference at most) your weight gain/loss is entirely dependent on your calories in, and your calories out entirely dependent on your body composition not time spent excercising.

Anecdotally it also tracks I lost dozens of pounds while doing less excercise, it was all 100% calorie tracking. Once the six pack shows up I will go back to lifting but will never do cardio for weight loss ever again.

Hopefully HFCS ban does really force dietary changes.

Why wait to lift weights? Doesn’t make much sense 

Posted
21 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Okay, so I stop giving my dollar to store so  grandma can get it cheaper, I give it to grandma instead. I hope your name is true. I don't want you to reproduce.

You have no business posting here.

Posted
24 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Okay, so I stop giving my dollar to store so  grandma can get it cheaper, I give it to grandma instead. I hope your name is true. I don't want you to reproduce.

Wat

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Posted
Just now, workswithseed said:

Either you're too dumb to actually refute, or you actually have nothing so you have to ad hom. I'm thinking the second one.

Man, I was going to point out what you are missing, but at some point it's just too wearying to wade through the blatant logical failures. Like I said before, read what I wrote and then read what you wrote, it isn't the same thing.

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Posted
6 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

Why wait to lift weights? Doesn’t make much sense 

I have struggled with it for the better part of a decade and a half (lifting and attempts at dieting got me nowhere), I lift and don't lose the gut, I stop lifting and just count calories and it starts to go away after a few months of dieting. 

At this point I am just resigned to it, that is how my mind (because of cravings reduction) and body works  and that is all she wrote.

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Posted
Just now, G650 said:

Man, I was going to point out what you are missing, but at some point it's just too wearying to wade through the blatant logical failures. Like I said before, read what I wrote and then read what you wrote, it isn't the same thing.

Instead of giving money to the farmers to lower prices, you give it to people directly.  The groceries will go up, but people given money directly will still be able to get it because they're given money directly from the govt. You're just moving the money around, you haven't made it where people think about what they're about to buy.

This is better than ad hom ad astra. 

Posted
6 hours ago, G650 said:

I mean, you can post here, knock yourself out. Genetic obesity is not a common malady. Lifestyle induced obesity is rampant.

What difference does it make whether it's genetic or lifestyle?  The impact on the healthcare system is the same.  The results to the obese are the same.  It's still a disease.  We should look at it like any other disease.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, linux said:

I have struggled with it for the better part of a decade and a half (lifting and attempts at dieting got me nowhere), I lift and don't lose the gut, I stop lifting and just count calories and it starts to go away after a few months of dieting. 

At this point I am just resigned to it, that is how my mind (because of cravings reduction) and body works  and that is all she wrote.

Lifting weights is still good to do.

https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2020/02/11/strength-training-can-help-protect-the-brain-from-degeneration.html#:~:text=Researchers have found that six,up to one year later.

Posted
5 hours ago, linux said:

This is a really good video with the most up to date science that probably needs to be universal knowledge, the gist of it is that in the medium to long term the body will consume the same amount of calories despite work out routines (or around a 5-10% difference at most) your weight gain/loss is entirely dependent on your calories in, and your calories out entirely dependent on your body composition not time spent excercising.

Anecdotally it also tracks I lost dozens of pounds while doing less excercise, it was all 100% calorie tracking. Once the six pack shows up I will go back to lifting but will never do cardio for weight loss ever again.

Hopefully HFCS ban does really force dietary changes.

You can't out exercise a bad diet.

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Posted (edited)

 

6 hours ago, G650 said:

I mean, I've said for 20 years food should be more expensive, not less, so we are not going to agree on this.

Food got 20% more expensive over the last 4 years and the American people voted for a fascist because of it.

People equate freedom with the amount of stuff they can afford to consume. If trump or RFK fucks with that then they’re playing with fire.

However, if there’s one man that can avoid any consequences for his actions … it’s Trump.🤷🏼‍♂️

Edited by Dnaguy
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Posted
8 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Instead of giving money to the farmers to lower prices, you give it to people directly.  The groceries will go up, but people given money directly will still be able to get it because they're given money directly from the govt. You're just moving the money around, you haven't made it where people think about what they're about to buy.

This is better than ad hom ad astra. 

Sigh.

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Posted
6 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

What difference does it make whether it's genetic or lifestyle?  The impact on the healthcare system is the same.  The results to the obese are the same.  It's still a disease.  We should look at it like any other disease.

 

Because the best practice remediation is not the same.

 

1 minute ago, Dnaguy said:

 

 

People equate freedom with the amount of stuff they can afford to consume.

 

Yes.

Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, G650 said:

Because the best practice remediation is not the same.

It's not a bright line like you are implying.  The overlap between genetic causes/predisposition of obesity and outside "lifestyle" factors is considerable.  Like sawbonz said, genetic obesity or "true obesity" as you termed it, is not a tiny percentage of overall obesity.  It's estimated to have as much as a 70 percent correlation by many studies.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK565801/

It's a complicated issue and both genetics and lifestyle together seem to play a major role in a substantial percentage of cases, but it's still unclear to what level they do interact (as noted in the conclusion to the article I linked above).  So to say that the best practice remediation is not the same is an overly simplistic and frankly incorrect view.

 

Edited by DDD Dad
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Posted
23 minutes ago, linux said:

I have struggled with it for the better part of a decade and a half (lifting and attempts at dieting got me nowhere), I lift and don't lose the gut, I stop lifting and just count calories and it starts to go away after a few months of dieting. 

At this point I am just resigned to it, that is how my mind (because of cravings reduction) and body works  and that is all she wrote.

Yeah but lifting and eating correctly builds muscle which burns more calories. You would become leaner faster by incorporating resistance training 

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Posted
Just now, SubliminalHorn said:

Yeah but lifting and eating correctly builds muscle which burns more calories. You would become leaner faster by incorporating resistance training 

Yes, it is logical, but it does not work that way because human beings are illogical, lifting makes me hungrier and cravings are more difficult to control, eating just an extra apple defeats the entire effort and I am back to square one.

By just counting calories and shrinking the stomach I just consume 70% of the calories I burn at rest I don't even think about food of late, a few months of that and I can lift again when the goal is small bulking and cutting.

Posted
39 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

So to say that the best practice remediation is not the same is an overly simplistic and frankly incorrect view.

It's not, because you are conflating two wholly different things. Sawbonz is totally off the reservation and doesn't even know what I'm referring to. What we have done is layered induced obesity on top of genetic. So yes there is overlap, but it's beyond "lifestyle" at this point. It's endemic to our society, and we are exporting it worldwide.

 

I don't have time to write a whole spiel on this tonight, but I have always found you to be one of the more thoughtful guys here, I will give you the TL;DR version of what I have been saying for a very long time. We have made calories so cheap, and in forms that are so hyper absorbable, that no normal person in our society can avoid them. It takes a high level of income independence and spare time to be able to have a chance at eating remotely properly, not to mention to actually want that. The data is very clear, we didn't all of a sudden as a people have some evolution that made us gain ridiculous amounts of weight, we deliberately chose this through policy. And, I want to stress, the bigger things I'm talking about go way beyond a bunch of overweight people. We have devalued food to such an ludicrous extent that people have disassociated with the actual meaning of food, which has lead to disastrous consequences. Food is literally what give us life, it should be the most sacred part of our society (breaking bread and whatnot), yet we outright throw away enough food every year to feed several countries!!!! Why? Because it's cheap and meaningless in our culture. Giving out skinny shots is the literal last thing we should be doing for the general population. We need to make ourselves feel the true cost of food production.

 

 

3 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

i hated fat people and thought they were weak

I literally don't think that.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, G650 said:

What we have done is layered induced obesity on top of genetic. So yes there is overlap, but it's beyond "lifestyle" at this point. It's endemic to our society, and we are exporting it worldwide.

I don't have time to write a whole spiel on this tonight, but I have always found you to be one of the more thoughtful guys here, I will give you the TL;DR version of what I have been saying for a very long time.

Appreciate the comment.  I hope my response wasn't taken as being condescending.  It wasn't intended to be.

Quote

We have made calories so cheap, and in forms that are so hyper absorbable, that no normal person in our society can avoid them. It takes a high level of income independence and spare time to be able to have a chance at eating remotely properly, not to mention to actually want that. The data is very clear, we didn't all of a sudden as a people have some evolution that made us gain ridiculous amounts of weight, we deliberately chose this through policy. And, I want to stress, the bigger things I'm talking about go way beyond a bunch of overweight people.

I agree with all of this.

Quote

We have devalued food to such an ludicrous extent that people have disassociated with the actual meaning of food, which has lead to disastrous consequences. Food is literally what give us life, it should be the most sacred part of our society (breaking bread and whatnot), yet we outright throw away enough food every year to feed several countries!!!! Why? Because it's cheap and meaningless in our culture.

Also agree with all of this (at least to a significant extent).

Quote

Giving out skinny shots is the literal last thing we should be doing for the general population. We need to make ourselves feel the true cost of food production.

I simply can't understand how you this conclusion from everything you said above.

Giving out skinny shots should be one of many tools at our disposal we should employ to address the healthcare, poverty, and societal crisis the policies you've mentioned have created or helped cause.  Ultimately the true cost of food should be reflected, but one does not necessitate the other.  And if you were to make "us" feel the true cost of food, who would be the ones that suffer the most?  The ones that already can't afford to eat healthy.  The science is still in its infancy, but anecdotally at least there appears to be a correlation between these drugs and an ability of those on them to change their eating habits to lean towards healthier diets, at a lower rate of consumption.  Wouldn't that potentially trend towards what you're suggesting?  Industrialization and consolidation of our farming (of course along with hefty subsidies) has led to much of the use of preservatives and other bad things associated with our current food supply.  Reducing demand for consumption seems like it would be a good thing and lead towards what you want.

(TL;DR, "why not both.gif"?)

Edited by DDD Dad
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, DDD Dad said:

It's not a bright line like you are implying.  The overlap between genetic causes/predisposition of obesity and outside "lifestyle" factors is considerable.  Like sawbonz said, genetic obesity or "true obesity" as you termed it, is not a tiny percentage of overall obesity.  It's estimated to have as much as a 70 percent correlation by many studies.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK565801/

It's a complicated issue and both genetics and lifestyle together seem to play a major role in a substantial percentage of cases, but it's still unclear to what level they do interact (as noted in the conclusion to the article I linked above).  So to say that the best practice remediation is not the same is an overly simplistic and frankly incorrect view.

 

Personally, I think overeating is an addiction more or less like any other. I am of the opinion that there is a strong genetic propensity to it, but I think like substance abuse, you can do a very credible imitation of the addiction without the genes. 

Note that I am not addressing obesity per se, but the leading cause of overweight tending to obesity. 

Edited by TwiceHorn
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