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Posted
It’s kinda like now there is a cap in the NFL Jerruh ain’t won shit in 30 years. Probably the singular best coaching job I have seen since NIL has been Cignetti. Because Indiana in their entire history has only had two ten win seasons. Both under Cig. They are a basketball school and so on. Imagine what Leach at Texas Tech could have done with NIL? It’s not that Sark is a shitty HC. Both he and Lane are talented. With several stops at HC. And the MNC is what eludes them both as HC. That doesn’t mean you cut bait on them or that they won’t eventually get the trophy as a HC but…you cannot separate Sark’s success from being at Texas and benefitting from NIL. Jmo. What would he be doing at OSU or Kansas State? He’s always been attached to fairly major programs. What would he do if the talent bucket was half empty and with limited funds? I think he would have about the same record at those places that he has here. And that’s my biggest knock on him. There are no excuses for losing to a shitty Florida team after a bye. The glare is that much harsher on him bc he has never won the big one as a HC. He gets leeway for being in the playoffs the last two years but we look sloppy and undisciplined and discombobulated at multiple times during the past three years and I cannot excuse that shit. He has top five NIL and Talent. People ripped Mack Brown’s mostly 10-3 shit while he was here. Let’s not pretend that with an expanded playoff and NIL and ability to get any player he pretty much wants that we should excuse Sark for potentially 9-3 bullshit either. He ain’t won shit yet. Praying he will.  Because the list of available candidates for his role are hit or miss with mostly misses. 

Big12 champs, bowl games, playoffs…..
Posted
58 minutes ago, tokamak said:

I like Sark as much as the next guy and personally hope he stays, but let's not overlook the fact that our return to success also coincides nicely with it becoming legal to pay players. It's really hard to argue that the actual X's and O's on the field this year has been overly impressive.

 

43 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

It’s kinda like now there is a cap in the NFL Jerruh ain’t won shit in 30 years. Probably the singular best coaching job I have seen since NIL has been Cignetti. Because Indiana in their entire history has only had two ten win seasons. Both under Cig. They are a basketball school and so on. Imagine what Leach at Texas Tech could have done with NIL? It’s not that Sark is a shitty HC. Both he and Lane are talented. With several stops at HC. And the MNC is what eludes them both as HC. That doesn’t mean you cut bait on them or that they won’t eventually get the trophy as a HC but…you cannot separate Sark’s success from being at Texas and benefitting from NIL. Jmo. What would he be doing at OSU or Kansas State? He’s always been attached to fairly major programs. What would he do if the talent bucket was half empty and with limited funds? I think he would have about the same record at those places that he has here. And that’s my biggest knock on him. There are no excuses for losing to a shitty Florida team after a bye. The glare is that much harsher on him bc he has never won the big one as a HC. He gets leeway for being in the playoffs the last two years but we look sloppy and undisciplined and discombobulated at multiple times during the past three years and I cannot excuse that shit. He has top five NIL and Talent. People ripped Mack Brown’s mostly 10-3 shit while he was here. Let’s not pretend that with an expanded playoff and NIL and ability to get any player he pretty much wants that we should excuse Sark for potentially 9-3 bullshit either. He ain’t won shit yet. Praying he will.  Because the list of available candidates for his role are hit or miss with mostly misses. 

I respectfully disagree. NIL has helped Sark, but Sark has also adroitly used NIL. And I will point out that many people on this board and within the community helped the AD (and therefore the staff) navigate NIL, but credit to Sark for being willing to engage with that help and partner with it effectively. Do you think Herman would have done as good a job as Sark with NIL? I don't. Not with the transfer portal making it easier than ever for players to get away from a toxic coach. 

There are also many counterfactuals - cases where a coach had plenty of money and could use NIL to recruit, but still fucked things up. You don't have to look any farther than Jimbo at A&M. All the money in the world, but he's dumb as fuck so they screwed things up. Then they bring an a coach who is at a minimum competent and suddenly things are looking up.

Sark is getting a boost from NIL, no doubt. But you can't assume a coach won't fuck up playing even a good hand dealt, and someone else could be much worse. 

Also, Sark won the Big 12 and a NY6. It's not a national championship, but it's more than we had done in quite a while and certainly more than "ain't shit." 

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Posted
51 minutes ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

It’s no Nashville, but nyc is up and coming for sure. 

Ok, so you're admitting you're basing this entirely on the city/location of the franchise. That's what I thought, which is why I said "Other than living in New York."

You're also taking that Titans interest as fact, which is most certainly is not proven fact. That's a hell of a false premise for this conversation. 

Posted

All things considered, Sark's biggest problem seems to be that he still chases Coordinator Glory.

Until he realizes that he's pursuing a subjective title (Best OC) and changes to the objectivity of full-spectrum Scoreboard Dominance, we're almost certainly going to continue to see a couple of WTF performances every season.

 

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Posted
39 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Ok, so you're admitting you're basing this entirely on the city/location of the franchise. That's what I thought, which is why I said "Other than living in New York."

You're also taking that Titans interest as fact, which is most certainly is not proven fact. That's a hell of a false premise for this conversation. 

I’m saying as a whole the Giants job is better than Tennessee, Miami, Carolina or wherever.  It’s at worst a top ten nfl job.  Yes location matters.  Franchise history matters. 
 

 

i haven’t a clue if Tennessee is remotely interested in Sark

 

Unrelated but Boomer Esiason said Sarks reps are pushing hard for him to get an NFL gig

Posted
44 minutes ago, Park Gothic said:

 

I respectfully disagree. NIL has helped Sark, but Sark has also adroitly used NIL. And I will point out that many people on this board and within the community helped the AD (and therefore the staff) navigate NIL, but credit to Sark for being willing to engage with that help and partner with it effectively. Do you think Herman would have done as good a job as Sark with NIL? I don't. Not with the transfer portal making it easier than ever for players to get away from a toxic coach. 

There are also many counterfactuals - cases where a coach had plenty of money and could use NIL to recruit, but still fucked things up. You don't have to look any farther than Jimbo at A&M. All the money in the world, but he's dumb as fuck so they screwed things up. Then they bring an a coach who is at a minimum competent and suddenly things are looking up.

Sark is getting a boost from NIL, no doubt. But you can't assume a coach won't fuck up playing even a good hand dealt, and someone else could be much worse. 

Also, Sark won the Big 12 and a NY6. It's not a national championship, but it's more than we had done in quite a while and certainly more than "ain't shit." 

Adroit sounds like a fancy SAT word tha means not going after OL help

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Posted

If/when we lose to UGA, Sark is gone. It’s so obvious how much he hates coaching here. 
 

This is the NIL era, I think someone on surly could coach these guys and probably win 8-9 games. We’ll be fine. He’s not near as good as he thinks he is.

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Posted
9 minutes ago, Wilcox Cummingtonite said:

If/when we lose to UGA, Sark is gone. It’s so obvious how much he hates coaching here. 
 

This is the NIL era, I think someone on surly could coach these guys and probably win 8-9 games. We’ll be fine. He’s not near as good as he thinks he is.

You are projecting your silly bullshit onto Sark. Get fucked. 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Park Gothic said:

You are projecting your silly bullshit onto Sark. Get fucked. 

I don't think Sarkisian "hates" coaching at Texas. I don't think his desire to go to the pros has much to do with Texas either. I just think he thinks he can kill it at the NFL level. It's pretty obvious that that is where his head is and where it has been for awhile. Sucks for us. 

 

1 hour ago, RomaVicta said:

A worthwhile observation about money, but be careful of post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Xs and Os looked bad early because of poor execution. Plays were there. 

I'm not arguing Sark's perfect. I do argue the performance I named. I stick by my assessment of us being overrated to start the year. 

The main point of my post was about who would we get to replace Sark who would certainly improve on what he is doing. Who would that be? I've noticed over the years that many people don't think that far ahead. Several top programs face that problem now. 

Who's next?

While I don't agree with the idiotic premise that "anyone can win at Texas with NIL now", I also don't buy the implication that there aren't suitable or better replacements for Steven & Five. There's a growing view that, whether anyone wants to replace Sarkisian or not, a short list better be figured out. 

So, to answer your question from my end, Freeman, Lanning, and Kiffin - their agent(s) would be the first guy(s) I'd be talking to, and I'd make sure the money was right. I'd want those guys in that order. I'm unwilling to consider other options until Sarkisian is actually gone and all 3 of those guys offer "thanks, but no thanks."

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Posted
4 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

So, to answer your question from my end, Freeman, Lanning, and Kiffin - their agent(s) would be the first guy(s) I'd be talking to, and I'd make sure the money was right. I'd want those guys in that order. I'm unwilling to consider other options until Sarkisian is actually gone and all 3 of those guys offer "thanks, but no thanks."

Sterlin Gilbert says good day sir!

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Posted
7 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

I don't think Sarkisian "hates" coaching at Texas. I don't think his desire to go to the pros has much to do with Texas either. I just think he thinks he can kill it at the NFL level. It's pretty obvious that that is where his head is and where it has been for awhile. Sucks for us. 

 

While I don't agree with the idiotic premise that "anyone can win at Texas with NIL now", I also don't buy the implication that there aren't suitable or better replacements for Steven & Five. There's a growing view that, whether anyone wants to replace Sarkisian or not, a short list better be figured out. 

So, to answer your question from my end, Freeman, Lanning, and Kiffin - their agent(s) would be the first guy(s) I'd be talking to, and I'd make sure the money was right. I'd want those guys in that order. I'm unwilling to consider other options until Sarkisian is actually gone and all 3 of those guys offer "thanks, but no thanks."

Idk Sark, but just seems like he wants out of this bubble.  You don't put up with as much shit in the NFL.  The Maras are known as a pretty dignified family, wouldn't be the worst gig for him.  I'm not sure of their interest in Sark at all, maybe he's viewed in a much better light outside of Surly.  IDK

Posted
2 minutes ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

Idk Sark, but just seems like he wants out of this bubble.  You don't put up with as much shit in the NFL.  The Maras are known as a pretty dignified family, wouldn't be the worst gig for him.  I'm not sure of their interest in Sark at all, maybe he's viewed in a much better light outside of Surly.  IDK

The Giants are rumored to be in talks with Belichick.

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Posted
32 minutes ago, Wilcox Cummingtonite said:

If/when we lose to UGA, Sark is gone. It’s so obvious how much he hates coaching here. 
 

This is the NIL era, I think someone on surly could coach these guys and probably win 8-9 games. We’ll be fine. He’s not near as good as he thinks he is.

Overall, I have you in the ass clown bucket with the usual suspects.  But I don't disagree here

Just now, closetojumping said:

The Giants are rumored to be in talks with Belichick.

Saw McCarthy, yes that one, is the betting favorite

Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

So, to answer your question from my end, Freeman, Lanning, and Kiffin - their agent(s) would be the first guy(s) I'd be talking to, and I'd make sure the money was right. I'd want those guys in that order. I'm unwilling to consider other options until Sarkisian is actually gone and all 3 of those guys offer "thanks, but no thanks."

I agree with the first 2.  Would be nervous with Kiffin.  On one hand the results speak for themselves.  But I also heard from people in coaching circles he has a rep as difficult to work for, checks out on details and kind of an organizational mess.   But I've heard that and then he wins 10+ games every year with decently high staff turnover so maybe whatever he does is right and he would kill it.  I just question if he could handle the Texas job + living in a city again (he desperately wanted miami for miami reasons purportedly but maybe he's grown out of that). 

Of course, I also can't necessarily think of a better #3 off the top of my head so maybe that order is right.  

Edited by Skipper
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Posted
39 minutes ago, Wilcox Cummingtonite said:

If/when we lose to UGA, Sark is gone. It’s so obvious how much he hates coaching here. 
 

This is the NIL era, I think someone on surly could coach these guys and probably win 8-9 games. We’ll be fine. He’s not near as good as he thinks he is.

The bit is back.

I like it.

Posted
22 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

I don't think Sarkisian "hates" coaching at Texas. I don't think his desire to go to the pros has much to do with Texas either. I just think he thinks he can kill it at the NFL level. It's pretty obvious that that is where his head is and where it has been for awhile. Sucks for us. 

 

While I don't agree with the idiotic premise that "anyone can win at Texas with NIL now", I also don't buy the implication that there aren't suitable or better replacements for Steven & Five. There's a growing view that, whether anyone wants to replace Sarkisian or not, a short list better be figured out. 

So, to answer your question from my end, Freeman, Lanning, and Kiffin - their agent(s) would be the first guy(s) I'd be talking to, and I'd make sure the money was right. I'd want those guys in that order. I'm unwilling to consider other options until Sarkisian is actually gone and all 3 of those guys offer "thanks, but no thanks."

Gerry has pushed Freeman for every major opening and I don’t disagree with him or you regarding him. He has to be the top candidate if Sark were to go to the league. 

Posted
3 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

We sucked for a decade before hiring Sarkisian.

We've worked our way back up to the top ten after a disastrous start. We've been to the more restricted playoffs two years in a row. We're in the hunt for a playoff spot this year.

Our brand new OL has performed very poorly but may be improving. Same goes for our QB.

Let's get a new coach?

Who? Some dream coach? You sure you're going to improve on the guy who got us here?

Crazy talk as far as I'm concerned. We were picked a year early by the idiot sports press. They were wrong in crowning Manning not us. They were wrong in their assessment; we weren't bad because we didn't meet it. It was stupid just like all the other stupid choices they crowded into the top ten. 

We may make some noise this year because of the parity and our improvement towards the championship contender we will certainly be next year.

Except 2018* that team did not suck and had the juice. Kinda lame they didn't put it together against Oklahoma in the big xii CCG and go to the playoffs. That was a damned good team though. 

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Posted
37 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

I don't think Sarkisian "hates" coaching at Texas. I don't think his desire to go to the pros has much to do with Texas either. I just think he thinks he can kill it at the NFL level. It's pretty obvious that that is where his head is and where it has been for awhile. Sucks for us. 

 

I get your point, but I'm ambivalent about how to feel about it. On the one hand, I would like to have a coach who wants to settle down at Texas for the long haul. I think someone like that tends to make long term investments that will better for the program over all. But on the other hand, I don't want a coach who lacks ambition or feels he's already "won" just by getting hired at Texas. I want a coach who feels like he has to prove something every year. In the immortal words of Peter Gibbons, I don't want a coach who's "only real motivation is not to be hassled; that, and the fear of losing [his] job" because "that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired."

So I like that Sark is ambitious and the only place "up" he can go from here is the NFL. I get it. But I do hope he's still making long term plans for Texas and will maintain that mentality at least until the NFL comes calling with the right job. 

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Posted
19 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Gerry has pushed Freeman for every major opening and I don’t disagree with him or you regarding him. He has to be the top candidate if Sark were to go to the league. 

I've heard Freeman is an ass.  Presents himself well of course.  Of course I'd hire him

7 minutes ago, immamac said:

Except 2018* that team did not suck and had the juice. Kinda lame they didn't put it together against Oklahoma in the big xii CCG and go to the playoffs. That was a damned good team though. 

Glad Tom is gone but he had some shitty ass luck here

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Posted
1 hour ago, Wilcox Cummingtonite said:

If/when we lose to UGA, Sark is gone. It’s so obvious how much he hates coaching here. 
 

This is the NIL era, I think someone on surly could coach these guys and probably win 8-9 games. We’ll be fine. He’s not near as good as he thinks he is.

The stupid takes continue... rock on!

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Posted
43 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

People actually believe the New York Giants are going to hire a college guy, Belichick notwithsanding?

Lol, come on. He's not a college guy. He's basically coached his entire career in the NFL. He has just happened to coach nine recent games at the college level.

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Posted

The narrative around here that the NFL is some sacred ground that only hires elite HCs from within is pretty dumb. 

Matt Rhule- Won 11 games at Baylor and spent 1 season (2012 with the Giants) before the Panthers hired him. 

Jim Harbaugh- Spent 2 years with the Raiders (02-03) and had 1 great season at Stanford before  a top 3 NFL brand hired him n San Francisco. 

Bobby Petrino- Worked with the Jags for 3 years before coaching Louisville to 2 top 10 seasons. 

And lets not forget the biggest brand in football hired brian schottenheimer who had been fired or not retained about 5 times before getting his first HC job. 

Posted
8 minutes ago, Sir Ulrich said:

The narrative around here that the NFL is some sacred ground that only hires elite HCs from within is pretty dumb. 

Matt Rhule- Won 11 games at Baylor and spent 1 season (2012 with the Giants) before the Panthers hired him. 

Jim Harbaugh- Spent 2 years with the Raiders (02-03) and had 1 great season at Stanford before  a top 3 NFL brand hired him n San Francisco. 

Bobby Petrino- Worked with the Jags for 3 years before coaching Louisville to 2 top 10 seasons. 

And lets not forget the biggest brand in football hired brian schottenheimer who had been fired or not retained about 5 times before getting his first HC job. 

You can just look at the giants hires and say that Steve is more qualified than their last 3 

Posted
2 hours ago, Skipper said:

Would be nervous with Kiffin.  On one hand the results speak for themselves.

Kiffin always has a potent offense.  Last year he had a huge NIL payroll with four NFL draft picks on defense.

And he still didn't win jack shit.  I don't get the fascination with this guy.

Posted
1 hour ago, kevwun said:

If you are a head coach in college or the NFL, you are an asshole.  Some hide it better than others.

Well I just think that's mean.

Posted
9 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Kiffin always has a potent offense.  Last year he had a huge NIL payroll with four NFL draft picks on defense.

And he still didn't win jack shit.  I don't get the fascination with this guy.

That's the thing.  There aren't any sure things out there.  I don't love Kiffen at all and would be very nervous but who else would you feel good about?   I've said it before, but there really isn't a single fanbase consistently happy with their coach.  Very few fanbases of 'top' programs have adjusted to the new reality.  I personally hope Sark sees it through and pushes to win a title before leaving.  Job here doesn't seem finished yet.  I think we made mistakes this offseason that can be corrected to make a run next year, but as we've discussed, the roster parity these days is real and that's only going one direction.

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Posted

I wouldnt blame Sark for wanting to jump to the NFL. It makes sense for him. CFB is not even the same game it was when he was hired. He did a great job for us navigating uncharted waters. If he were to leave, I think he'd be remembered as the guy who stopped the bleeding and elevated us back into the tier where we belong. 

In the same vein, I think we are a more attractive job now than when he was hired. I think the current infrastructure behind the program is solidly top 5 in the country if not higher. It's turnkey for a new staff. I don't know who we should hire, but I wouldnt be worried about entering the carousel at all. I actually think a new entry point could attract more big money from our donor base. A lot of the worrisome unknowns about NIL and the portal have been answered at least to some extent. 

I'd be kind of surprised if we went hard after Lanning or Kiffin. Both carry some baggage. Don't know much about Freeman but I'd be really surprised if we couldnt get him if we want him. 

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Posted
3 hours ago, Park Gothic said:

I get your point, but I'm ambivalent about how to feel about it. On the one hand, I would like to have a coach who wants to settle down at Texas for the long haul. I think someone like that tends to make long term investments that will better for the program over all. But on the other hand, I don't want a coach who lacks ambition or feels he's already "won" just by getting hired at Texas. I want a coach who feels like he has to prove something every year. In the immortal words of Peter Gibbons, I don't want a coach who's "only real motivation is not to be hassled; that, and the fear of losing [his] job" because "that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired."

So I like that Sark is ambitious and the only place "up" he can go from here is the NFL. I get it. But I do hope he's still making long term plans for Texas and will maintain that mentality at least until the NFL comes calling with the right job. 

I feel like the days of this are dwindling unless something major again changes with NIL or a major staffing evolution happens to support head coaches (yes i realize some are trying this GM model) at the top level, though we'll continue to see more long terms at smaller schools that don't have much money or success anyways. 

Right now the pendulum has swung from treating athletes basically as slaves to seasonal free agents, thats a rough gig to manage

 

Posted
4 hours ago, Skipper said:

I agree with the first 2.  Would be nervous with Kiffin.  On one hand the results speak for themselves.  But I also heard from people in coaching circles he has a rep as difficult to work for, checks out on details and kind of an organizational mess.   But I've heard that and then he wins 10+ games every year with decently high staff turnover so maybe whatever he does is right and he would kill it.  I just question if he could handle the Texas job + living in a city again (he desperately wanted miami for miami reasons purportedly but maybe he's grown out of that). 

Of course, I also can't necessarily think of a better #3 off the top of my head so maybe that order is right.  

If Elko gets to the Final game, we ought to hire him. It's turdition.

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Posted
18 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

If Elko gets to the Final game, we ought to hire him. It's turdition.

We have hired a MBB coach from Tech that reached the championship and a Baseball coach that reached the championship at A&M. If that tradition continues that means we will have to hire a FB coach from an in state school that made the championship... Oh please no... 

Sonny Dykes - Football Coach - TCU Athletics

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