Русский корабль - иди нахуй

[Parliament 14086]

Well that's a shame...

[MNLonghornFUKM 8795]

Gaddafi? Does Putin like the old “let my knife drink” Arab treatment, aka shoving a 12 inch saber up his anus?

 

Dude had some serious drip. Tough to see him go out looking like his worse

[atomheartbevo 89304]

20 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Dude had some serious drip. Tough to see him go out looking like his worse

The people dragging him around and killing him could have done such a better job.

I'd start by dragging him out of sight, stripping him naked, putting women's underwear and a bra on him, dressing him back up, drag him back out in public, then rip off his clothes and act all shocked when everybody/the cameras caught sight of the women's underwear.

That's just for starters.

[FartingMonk 3606]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/23/harsh-conditions-mean-russian-troops-near-ukraine-will-need-to-be-moved-soon

 

Basically saying Russias invasion window is soon otherwise they have to pull back because it's fucking miserable in the front lines and they are selling fuel for food.

[FartingMonk 3606]

4 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

The people dragging him around and killing him could have done such a better job.

I'd start by dragging him out of sight, stripping him naked, putting women's underwear and a bra on him, dressing him back up, drag him back out in public, then rip off his clothes and act all shocked when everybody/the cameras caught sight of the women's underwear.

That's just for starters.

He has various objects shoved up his ass for 3 days and repeatedly stabbed.  I think that's pretty bad.  I don't think I would have been too concerned about being dressed up.

[atomheartbevo 89304]

This is a headline out of a Tom Clancy novel from the late 1980s or early 1990s:

Russian Navy Cruisers Positioned to Counter U.S., French and Italian Carrier Groups in the Mediterranean

https://news.usni.org/2022/02/22/russian-navy-cruisers-positioned-to-counter-u-s-french-and-italian-carrier-groups-in-the-mediterranean

Quote

Three Russian guided-missile cruisers have been arrayed across the Black Sea and the Mediterranean Sea to counter three NATO carrier strike groups, causing concern in the Pentagon, a U.S. defense official told USNI News on Tuesday.

As of Monday, the three Slava-class cruisers were operating in and around the Aegean Sea – RTS Moskva (121) in the Black Sea, RFS Varyag (011) south of Italy and RTS Marshal Ustinov (055) off the coast of Syria, near Russia’s naval base in Tartus.

Quote

The position of the cruisers around the Aegean is a complication for the U.S., Italian and French carrier strike groups that have been operating in the Mediterranean the last several weeks.

 

[atomheartbevo 89304]

Info on additional things the US and others could use against Russia - basically put export controls on a shitload more stuff, and make it hard on their economy/manufacturing/etc.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-punishing-putin-biden-could-171437620.html

 

[FartingMonk 3606]

5 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

This is a headline out of a Tom Clancy novel from the late 1980s or early 1990s:

Russian Navy Cruisers Positioned to Counter U.S., French and Italian Carrier Groups in the Mediterranean

https://news.usni.org/2022/02/22/russian-navy-cruisers-positioned-to-counter-u-s-french-and-italian-carrier-groups-in-the-mediterranean

 

@InkaUtexas mentioned the positioning of the ships a few threads back.  The Russian Navy poses no threat to those forces in my opinion.  They are being tracked by submarines and a carrier strike group.  The conversation it does bring up though are those assets going to take down the Russian naval fleet it if starts shelling Ukraine.  At this point we are saying diplomacy and sanctions but where is that line where we say hey consider them hostile.  I don't think there has even been a naval engagement between ships since forever.  And then there is the unwritten rule with aircraft carriers.   You sink one and it opens up the nuclear option.

[atomheartbevo 89304]

34 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

The conversation it does bring up though are those assets going to take down the Russian naval fleet it if starts shelling Ukraine. 

There is no conversation about that.  We aren’t doing shit unless NATO members are attacked.  

[troph 24498]

56 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

He has various objects shoved up his ass for 3 days and repeatedly stabbed.  I think that's pretty bad.  I don't think I would have been too concerned about being dressed up.

And what if he liked it, you never know?

[troph 24498]

8 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

There is no conversation about that.  We aren’t doing shit unless NATO members are attacked.  

I think this has been made abundantly clear. I actually think the long game is the sanctions and hopes of sidelining Russia even more and if Ukraine is the price to galvanize the west then so be it. I think it’s short sighted. I think China is the threat and Russia could be a (limited) ally in that fight later. God knows we are going to need a coalition far beyond NATO for that stubborn regime. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by troph

[FartingMonk 3606]

22 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

There is no conversation about that.  We aren’t doing shit unless NATO members are attacked.  

 

14 minutes ago, troph said:

I think this has been made abundantly clear. I actually think the long game is the sanctions and hopes of sidelining Russia even more and if Ukraine is the price to galvanize the west then so be it. I think it’s short sighted. I think China is the threat and Russia could be a (limited) ally in that fight later. God knows we are going to need a coalition far beyond NATO for that stubborn regime. 

So yall think we let Ukraine get taken down and we stand there and watch them get wiped out?  It will be a war of attrition and Russia wins.  

China is a different fight.  The world depends on them economically for stuff that is more consumer targeted.  We can do without rubber dog shit indefinitely.  As far as fighting them it isn't going to be a ground shooting war.  It's a denial of access.  Sink their ships in the harbor and you're good to go.  The countries in Asia has been preparing for such a showdown and have invested a lot of money military wise to face that threat.  They may be more easy to control than Russia.  Sanctions will hurt them more than sanctions against Russia.  The Aussies proved that during the last trade war spat when they just refused to ship any coal to them.  The country that gets slaughtered if we go bump heads with China will be Korea but that's a pretty long convoy that will get battered before they make it there.  

[InkaUtexas 25289]

7 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

The regular/elite troops have some solid equipment, not as well equipped as our guys are, although I'm sure they have special operations units that are extremely well-equipped on par with our special operations folks.  I think Forgotten Weapons on YouTube has covered some of their newer rifles, or at least a few other channels have.

The conscripts and regular grunts, not so much.

From what I've heard/read over the years, much of the Russian defense money was poured into modernizing their aircraft, their tanks, and their heavy artillery/rockets, along with some naval upgrades.  They wanted a heavily integrated/"Shock and Awe" type of system like we displayed rolling into Iraq in 2003, which is convenient if you have neighbors you want to invade.

What they do have is better than the typical Ukrainian soldier or reservist, although it's possible enough Western stuff has been flowing in to improve things - I know the French and Brits have poured a lot of resources in since Crimea.

The thing about the Russian troops though, is how many actual infantry vs support they have, and whether the Ukrainians can force those infantry off of any "front lines" and into a position of having to guard supply convoys and whatever bases/hubs they build.

Because there's infantry, and then there's basically infantry.

 

11B.... Sand hill. 

[InkaUtexas 25289]

2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

This is a headline out of a Tom Clancy novel from the late 1980s or early 1990s:

Russian Navy Cruisers Positioned to Counter U.S., French and Italian Carrier Groups in the Mediterranean

https://news.usni.org/2022/02/22/russian-navy-cruisers-positioned-to-counter-u-s-french-and-italian-carrier-groups-in-the-mediterranean

 

we are tracking as well. And I think we would fucker hammer them if they moved. We own the med. 

[InkaUtexas 25289]

2 hours ago, FartingMonk said:

@InkaUtexas mentioned the positioning of the ships a few threads back.  The Russian Navy poses no threat to those forces in my opinion.  They are being tracked by submarines and a carrier strike group.  The conversation it does bring up though are those assets going to take down the Russian naval fleet it if starts shelling Ukraine.  At this point we are saying diplomacy and sanctions but where is that line where we say hey consider them hostile.  I don't think there has even been a naval engagement between ships since forever.  And then there is the unwritten rule with aircraft carriers.   You sink one and it opens up the nuclear option.

no, but the ruskies did move ship killing cruise missiles into Syria. Our Navy still scares them. 

[InkaUtexas 25289]

8 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Taking out helicopters was a huge psychological problem for the Russians in Afghanistan, and they paid a price when they lost their air cover, and pilots could get very skittish.

If Ukrainians have the means and the training, Russian helicopters in Ukraine could be running a huge risk because they are juicier targets then tanks.  You want helicopters to provide cover/support for ground operations, not to have to push ground operations into clearing out areas to make them safe for helicopters.

Artillery is the key to everything, and while the Russians have massive amounts of really good artillery, and a willingness to kill lots of civilians, they can't be everywhere.

I do think the Ukrainians have a shot at really punishing the Russians.  The West should be able to keep the Ukrainians steadily supplied in anti-tank and anti-air weapons, because the Russians don't have the manpower to drive all the way to Ukraine's western border.

And more importantly, the West has a shitload of experience in dealing with insurgencies, and with the tactics that were used against our own helicopters, vehicles, etc.  That makes me think that Putin tries to keep his vehicles/air cover as far back as possible.  If Putin starts losing lots of vehicles/air cover, he either has to retreat, or has to push farther out, which exposes him even more and thins out his lines even more.

And taking out a chopper is a great visual. Drop a MI-8 full of troops is better then 1 tank.

[gmr548 16427]

So yall think we let Ukraine get taken down and we stand there and watch them get wiped out?  It will be a war of attrition and Russia wins.  

Yes. That’s been made pretty clear. And it’s the right decision. What exactly does Russia “win” by taking some portion of Ukraine at enormous cost, which will have to be sustained long term to hold the territory?

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

Military strategist surly is best surly.

[statsman 5369]

6 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Dude had some serious drip. Tough to see him go out looking like his worse

Not crazy about laughing about the way Khadaffy died (bayonet up the rear), considering US Ambassador Chris Stevens went the same way, per rumor. 
 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4965]

6 hours ago, FartingMonk said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/23/harsh-conditions-mean-russian-troops-near-ukraine-will-need-to-be-moved-soon

 

Basically saying Russias invasion window is soon otherwise they have to pull back because it's fucking miserable in the front lines and they are selling fuel for food.

Russian troops have historically endured much worse. Russian troops have also historically largely been cannon fodder. 

[Chet Steadman 940]

13 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Military strategist surly is best surly.

This thread needs more @Stannis for a full breakdown 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

As someone who lives in a place that is currently overrun by Russians, I just wanted to chime in and mention those are some ugly motherfuckers.

[TXSG8R 3325]

5 hours ago, FartingMonk said:

 

So yall think we let Ukraine get taken down and we stand there and watch them get wiped out?  It will be a war of attrition and Russia wins.  

China is a different fight.  The world depends on them economically for stuff that is more consumer targeted.  We can do without rubber dog shit indefinitely.  As far as fighting them it isn't going to be a ground shooting war.  It's a denial of access.  Sink their ships in the harbor and you're good to go.  The countries in Asia has been preparing for such a showdown and have invested a lot of money military wise to face that threat.  They may be more easy to control than Russia.  Sanctions will hurt them more than sanctions against Russia.  The Aussies proved that during the last trade war spat when they just refused to ship any coal to them.  The country that gets slaughtered if we go bump heads with China will be Korea but that's a pretty long convoy that will get battered before they make it there.  

If you think Germany was beholden to Russian gas, wait until you find out about the modern world’s complete reliance on China for rare earths. We aren’t doing shit to China. 

[Shady Ray 1633]

41 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

If you think Germany was beholden to Russian gas, wait until you find out about the modern world’s complete reliance on China for rare earths. We aren’t doing shit to China. 

Exactly. Germany's dependency on Russian gas will send the country into a painful recession at the very least...quite possibly worse; heavy sanctions on China would send Germany into complete meltdown. The Government simply could not feasibly do anything to damage trade relationships with China.

 

I mentioned it upthread, but the Chinese market is absolutely king when it comes to German automobiles, heavy machinery, and electronic goods. There simply is no comparison to any other market. And not only is the volume of vehicles that China buys far and away above any other export market, the TYPES of vehicles they buy are the high-end, top of the line BMWs, Mercedes, etc. The exports to the US are generally mid-range and lower-end models. 

 

When you add how dependent German heavy-equipment manufacturers are on selling their products into China, any significant step at keeping German goods from that market would be devastating.

 

And as you said, we don't even need to get into the dependency on imports to generate those goods. All the way around, China is where Germany has its economic future staked. The US is still the number one export market, but that is quickly changing.

 

This was published from the Bundesamt for Statistics last week:

 

 

Press Release: "China was Germany’s most important trading partner in 2021 for the sixth year in a row"

https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2022/02/PE22_068_51.html

Edited February 23, 2022 by Shady Ray

[JerrysJheriCurl 977]

58 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

If you think Germany was beholden to Russian gas, wait until you find out about the modern world’s complete reliance on China for rare earths. We aren’t doing shit to China. 

Wheat, corn and barley prices and futures. Check ‘em out.

Ukraine ain’t called the breadbasket of Europe for nothing.

Edited February 23, 2022 by JerrysJheriCurl

[Bevo 13468]

8 minutes ago, JerrysJheriCurl said:

Wheat, corn and barely prices and futures. Check ‘em out.

Ukraine ain’t called the breadbasket of Europe for nothing.

Barley? What the hell is it good for, barley soup? Wake me up when they control hops.

[F250 28623]

1 hour ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Military strategist surly is best surly.

 

[52-80 19047]

1 hour ago, TXSG8R said:

If you think Germany was beholden to Russian gas, wait until you find out about the modern world’s complete reliance on China for rare earths. We aren’t doing shit to China. 

what's so rare about 10 million square kilometers of land

[Reynolds Woodcock 4652]

2 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Military strategist surly is best surly.

You clearly underestimate the military prowess of middle aged Texans who’ve read Guns of August on more than one occasion.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

Just now, Reynolds Woodcock said:

You clearly underestimate the military prowess of middle aged Texans who’ve read Guns of August on more than one occasion.

These are not people you want to fuck with, man.

[TXSG8R 3325]

4 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

what's so rare about 10 million square kilometers of land

There’s nothing rare about the material, but we have allowed China to completely take over the ore processing because it’s extremely dirty for the environment and their labor prices can’t be beat. If they shut off the pipe most manufacturing stops. It’s not just cell phones, they are used in almost everything; cars, appliances, computers, defense industry, etc. Thanks to JIT logistics and profits over everything board mentality, no one has any realistic stockpiles to weather the storm until non-Chinese refining could be stood up to compensate. It’s a way bigger hurdle to overcome than cheap labor/manufacturing. 

[JerrysJheriCurl 977]

1 minute ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

You clearly underestimate the military prowess of middle aged Texans who’ve read Guns of August on more than one occasion.

Don’t forget The Art of War and The Book of Five Rings. 

[Parliament 14086]

Our allies are kinda cool.  The Japanese ambassador to the Ukraine refuses to bug out.  And he's doing it with style.

 

 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

4 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Our allies are kinda cool.  The Japanese ambassador to the Ukraine refuses to bug out.  And he's doing it with style.

 

 

[52-80 19047]

44 minutes ago, Shady Ray said:

I mentioned it upthread, but the Chinese market is absolutely king when it comes to German automobiles, heavy machinery, and electronic goods. There simply is no comparison to any other market. And not only is the volume of vehicles that China buys far and away above any other export market, the TYPES of vehicles they buy are the high-end, top of the line BMWs, Mercedes, etc. The exports to the US are generally mid-range and lower-end models.

Not to nitpick but truth is opposite.  Per unit revenue is higher in US, and also total revenue is higher in US.

 

Most of the Merc they buy are produced locally, anyway

 

 

BMW rev for US is close to China

 

BMW doesn't sell 1-series in US, nor 320i, which they do in China.  etc.

 

Maybe in retail luxury goods China leads the pack, but US still captures the premium vehicle space

[Parliament 14086]

Then Russia just killed a Japanese diplomat, and that would be bad for Vlad.  I don't know my history well, but I recall Japan kicking the shit out of Russia 120 years ago.

[TurkeyChew 383]

9 hours ago, F250 said:

Yeah, I was a little confused myself but noticed the previous post from elfenix mentioning a link.

 

 

9 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Orly?

Do not see the original source.

 

9 hours ago, F250 said:

 

 

Sorry for the confusion, I was just copypasta from an email that was forwarded to me like a newsletter. 

Here is another interesting interview from same source. I think it does a good job of distilling what a lot of folks have said in the last dozen pages or so and is a good 5 minute primer to catch people up just now wanting to know what is going on. The last question is particularly hilarious:

--

The Russia-Ukraine conflict has officially replaced NFTs as the topic people love to talk about but don’t fully understand. That’s not a knock on anyone—look, even those of us who follow the news for our jobs haven’t spent the last decade immersed in Eastern European politics.

But we know someone who has: Alex Kliment, a geopolitical analyst who helps write and edit the excellent Signal, a global affairs newsletter published by GZERO Media . We asked Alex some high-level questions about the situation to get a better grasp on what exactly is going on and why we should care.

Can you give us a brief history of the relationship between Russia and Ukraine?

To start with, the “brief” history goes back a thousand years, because Russian civilization more or less began in what is today’s Ukraine: Medieval Kyiv was bumping while Moscow was still a backwater. This sounds irrelevant but Putin alludes to this all the time as part of his reasons for wanting to bring Ukraine under Russian control.

After the middle ages, the lands of today’s Ukraine were part of various European empires, including, of course, the Tsarist and Soviet ones, both of which worried about Ukrainian nationalism and wanted to Russify the population and culture. (The Ukrainian language is related to Russian but different, think of Italian and Spanish.)

There have been some particularly dark moments in their history: Stalin starved millions of Ukrainians to death in the 1930s. There’s a reason that Ukraine’s national anthem begins with, “Ukraine is not dead yet.”

Since 1991 and the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine has been an independent state, but it’s been caught in a tug of war between Russia and the West. There are a lot of ethnic Russians in Ukraine, particularly in the east and south, and those are areas where you find more sympathy for Moscow. Central and western Ukraine have tended to show more pro-Western sentiment, but it’s very, very hard to generalize. There are also a lot of family ties between the two countries—just about everyone in Ukraine has relatives somewhere in Russia.

The Kremlin, for its part, sees Ukraine as a non-negotiable part of its sphere of influence. The idea of Ukraine ever joining NATO (which has been floated in various ways) is an existential red line for Russia. But there’s also this other thing going on where Putin openly doesn’t believe Ukraine is a legit independent country. For him it’s basically just a part of a greater Russian empire that it’s his destiny to resurrect. Most people in Ukraine obviously don’t love this view.

On Monday Putin recognized the independence of two Ukrainian separatist regions: Donetsk and Luhansk. What the heck are “separatist” regions and why was this viewed as such a provocative move?

In 2014, after a popular uprising ousted the pro-Russian president of Ukraine and led to a new, Western-backed government that featured some strident Ukrainian nationalists, Russia did two things:

It annexed the Crimean peninsula, the only part of Ukraine where ethnic Russians were the majority.

It also backed militants in two eastern provinces who set up breakaway statelets of their own. Russia said it was protecting Russian speakers—whose language rights were in fact under threat at the time—from genocide.

The result was a civil war between those separatists and Ukrainian forces which has so far killed about 14,000 people and displaced close to 1 million.

Since 2015 there’s been a peace deal on paper: the "Minsk agreements." It was a pretty good deal for Russia, actually. The separatist regions would remain part of Ukraine, but with significant autonomy and an effective veto over Kyiv’s foreign policy. They've basically been cat’s paws for Moscow to keep Ukraine from ever moving Westward.

But that agreement was never implemented, in part because neither side could agree on who should move first. Now, by unilaterally recognizing the independence of the separatist entities, Russia is giving up on that peace agreement entirely, and (again, as with Crimea) forcibly changing the borders of a European country.

UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said this would be the biggest war in Europe since WWII. But there have been other European conflicts since, so what makes this one so much more significant?

Well for one thing, it’s the sheer size of the players. Yugoslavia’s horrific 1990s civil war—the worst European conflict since WWII—took place in a disintegrating country of 23.5 million people. Ukraine has more than 40 million people and, mind you, one of the combatants is a nuclear power.

Second, a central idea of post-war Europe is that you don’t redraw European boundaries by force, because that always ends very badly. And yet here is Russia, a major world power, doing just that. So Russia’s challenge isn’t only to a specific country (Ukraine) but to a whole order.

Third, there’s obviously a huge economic dimension here. We’re talking about a war involving a country—Russia—that is Europe’s largest source of natural gas and is a major global oil exporter. No European war has involved anything close to this level of economic and financial risk to Europe since 1945.

On that note, if Western leaders think Russia’s actions are so harmful to European security, why isn’t the US sending troops?

The US public has little appetite for foreign military adventures—and after the past 20 years, frankly, who could blame them?

There’s also an understandable reluctance to get into a direct conflict with a nuclear power over a country that is not, in fact, a NATO member. So the West is using different tools to try to manage the situation: arming the Ukrainians better, bolstering defenses in the NATO countries that border Ukraine, and hitting Russia with sanctions.

What is the most likely outcome of the war? Is Russia guaranteed to capture as much territory as it wants? Will Ukrainian forces put up a fight?

The Ukrainians are certainly no pushovers. They’ve been well-armed and trained by the West since 2014. That said, the Russian forces are just much, much larger, and in the event of a full-scale invasion, most military analysts think that the Russians could get to key cities quite fast.

The interesting question, though, is what happens next. Invading a country is one thing, but actually occupying it—if that’s Putin’s intention—is another. The Russians would not, in most cases, be “greeted as liberators,” as the saying goes. I’m not a military analyst but I’m told that things could get very nasty in the event of urban warfare or a popular insurgency. And the West would almost certainly support efforts to make life hell for the occupying Russians.

Serious question: Is Putin simply out of his gourd? Is there any world in which the benefits of an invasion outweigh the costs, or is he behaving like Tony Montana near the end of Scarface?

A lot of people have wondered if Putin is nuts with this Ukraine stuff. I think it’s probably the wrong question. The right question is: Is he consistent? Certainly from a Western point of view it seems crazy to risk Russia’s economic stability and global standing over whether a neighbor wants to join NATO or not.

But Putin is operating on a different standard. He and those around him truly believe—and have long believed—that Ukraine moving into the West’s orbit would be an existential threat to his regime and the security of his country in a way that Western sanctions just aren’t. Morning Brew's writeup did a great job explaining why Putin is probably OK risking sanctions to get what he wants here.

So in a way he’s doing a kind of cost-benefit analysis that I’m not sure Tony Montana, in his final moments of inspiration, was similarly capable of.

Putin may end up being wrong, but I don’t think he’s crazy.

[BabaYaga 15190]

16 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

I don't this it is. I think this is a land grab to create a buffer. If they caused a massive refugee crisis then they also win since that would fuck the remaining part of Ukraine. 

Fun times. Glad we have this thread. 

A buffer of course (hence the requirements that NATO back off), but also as the prize of prizes in the area in terms of natural and agricultural resources.  

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

And Russia is leaving their eastern flank bare of military. Would be fun for the rising sun to shine bright while Russia is fucking about. Any land that is in dispute by Japan/Russia? (obviously all in jest. That would definitely trigger ww3) 

[Trey3216 15321]

4 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

And Russia is leaving their eastern flank bare of military. Would be fun for the rising sun to shine bright while Russia is fucking about. Any land that is in dispute by Japan/Russia? (obviously all in jest. That would definitely trigger ww3) 

I'm going to be amused as shit when Lil Kim decides he's going to cross the Tumen River and acquire some more territory on the Manchurian coast.  

[BabaYaga 15190]

13 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Taking out helicopters was a huge psychological problem for the Russians in Afghanistan, and they paid a price when they lost their air cover, and pilots could get very skittish.

If Ukrainians have the means and the training, Russian helicopters in Ukraine could be running a huge risk because they are juicier targets then tanks.  You want helicopters to provide cover/support for ground operations, not to have to push ground operations into clearing out areas to make them safe for helicopters.

Artillery is the key to everything, and while the Russians have massive amounts of really good artillery, and a willingness to kill lots of civilians, they can't be everywhere.

I do think the Ukrainians have a shot at really punishing the Russians.  The West should be able to keep the Ukrainians steadily supplied in anti-tank and anti-air weapons, because the Russians don't have the manpower to drive all the way to Ukraine's western border.

And more importantly, the West has a shitload of experience in dealing with insurgencies, and with the tactics that were used against our own helicopters, vehicles, etc.  That makes me think that Putin tries to keep his vehicles/air cover as far back as possible.  If Putin starts losing lots of vehicles/air cover, he either has to retreat, or has to push farther out, which exposes him even more and thins out his lines even more.

All this presupposes that the Ukrainians have the desire and will to put up a massive fight with the Russians.  We shall see.  I'm buying a few of these though.  

[Guest Lobo]

The "Kamchatka" episode in Hulu's "Risk: 2022" is gonna be lit as fuck.

[Chad Fuck 17455]

Our allies are kinda cool.  The Japanese ambassador to the Ukraine refuses to bug out.  And he's doing it with style.
 
 

That’s cool in a Rambo way and all, but I am skeptical about whether the government of Japan supports him in that.

Also when Japanese start getting all Bushido and shit, we should all get nervous. At least they’re on out side this time.

[TurkeyChew 383]

11 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

And Russia is leaving their eastern flank bare of military. Would be fun for the rising sun to shine bright while Russia is fucking about. Any land that is in dispute by Japan/Russia? (obviously all in jest. That would definitely trigger ww3) 

Here is a cool link in real time, I think, to see Russia's troops and movements and placements for military buff/nerds:

https://www.gfsis.org/maps/russian-military-forces

[Parliament 14086]

Still though.  I wanna drink saki with that guy.

[Chad Fuck 17455]

Then Russia just killed a Japanese diplomat, and that would be bad for Vlad.  I don't know my history well, but I recall Japan kicking the shit out of Russia 120 years ago.

Russia subsequently came back for a few licks at Japan as well. There was a reason the Japanese didn’t hook their Nazi allies up with a second front. The Russians handed them their ass a couple times there “prewar.”

[Chad Fuck 17455]

Still though.  I wanna drink saki with that guy.

Hell I’d buy. I’ll bet it’d be a great conversation.

[Captainant 27250]

Just now, Chad Fuck said:

Russia subsequently came back for a few licks at Japan as well. There was a reason the Japanese didn’t hook their Nazi allies up with a second front. The Russians handed them their ass a couple times there “prewar.”

Well it's less that Russia handed them their ass and more that they drowned Japan in their blood. Russia's strategy against Imperial Japan (during both the imperial and soviet) was just to grind the tiny island nation down. 

[texasdago 7544]

Having visited Japan and seen their absolute meticulous approach to everything... everything... I commented to my wife that I could not imagine how relentless they would be in war.  

[Chad Fuck 17455]

Well it's less that Russia handed them their ass and more that they drowned Japan in their blood. Russia's strategy against Imperial Japan (during both the imperial and soviet) was just to grind the tiny island nation down. 

However you want to characterize it, the Russians defeated the Japanese and the Japanese never again threatened the Russians. They wanted Russian territory, didn’t get it, and stayed neutral as to Russia for six years. That is, until Russia decided it wanted a piece of Japan - which they took and still have - mere days before cessation of hostilities. They slept thy Japanese army. Bottom line.