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Minneapolis Cop Murders A Black Man

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12 hours ago, bernorange said:

Training won't fix a personality defect.  Accountability is the right Rx.

This.

Make their bosses accountable and stop acting as if the fuckups are one offs or exceptions.

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2 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

I completely agree about accountability, which does not negate the need to re-evaluate training duration and method.
 

The point is more that from looking at existing data, there is no correlation between increased training and improved behavior, for lack of a better term. This is a REALLY good twitter thread that sticks to data to back its points

 

 

The lower hanging fruit IMO is to change the relationship and power dynamic between the police unions and the cities they work for. The ability to play a shell game with serial offender officers and bury past wrongs is arguably the single largest contributing factor to our current animosity with policing.

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26 minutes ago, Captainant said:

The lower hanging fruit IMO is to change the relationship and power dynamic between the police unions and the cities they work for. The ability to play a shell game with serial offender officers and bury past wrongs is arguably the single largest contributing factor to our current animosity with policing.

Yep.  You'll know if the leaders are serious or not by whether they address this structural aspect, or simply shuffle a few numbers around in the budget (#defund).  I think the political ramifications of this would cut deep.  Taking on the unions won't stop at the LE level.  Teachers would be next.  Then further down the public sector.  

27 minutes ago, Captainant said:

The point is more that from looking at existing data, there is no correlation between increased training and improved behavior, for lack of a better term. This is a REALLY good twitter thread that sticks to data to back its points

To date, this person is correct.  Much of the training has been sub-par.  It's also been the LE equivalent of "corporate diversity" training as well for many precincts.  What you are not seeing, are the significant numbers of LE's that seek out their own training when off duty.  From BJJ classes, to pistol and carbine classes at various places from high-end like Taran Tactical/Thunder Ranch to weekend mom/pop places.  It's impossible to quantify the hours and impact, but anecdotal evidence from LE's are that those guys see the least amount of issues....especially those comfortable when someone lays hands on them (Such as Greg Anderson in WA state)

The idea that "no" training is effective doesn't hold up.  Do they really think that trained individuals from the most prestigious Tier I groups couldn't do a better job?  Of course they could/would.  Such stringent screening and the lengthy pipeline development process isn't something you can scale.  But there is room in the middle.  Constant training.  Constant fitness requirements.  Constant drilling and situational scenarios designed to teach stress inoculation and management.  Fine if you want to integrate social workers, etc - but the front line LE's need to be better prepared to do their jobs, along with a structural change to constantly jettison the bad actors or sub-par performers.  

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

there should be no public sector unions...

good luck changing the firefighters.  That shit dates back to 1736 and Ben Franklin.

Edited by slorch

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Posted (edited)

The police union is the only professional group that comes to my mind which on balance vigorously and without question protects its own regardless..... and often to the detriment of the good /decent law abiding members.

It has created a culture that punishes efforts to clean house from the inside and puts the bad cops in a dominant position above the good ones who are forced to go along to get along.  What starts as a few bad apples literally spoils the whole bunch as witnesses to this behavior become complicit in the coverups and excuse making. 

You don’t see other industry or professional groups fight so hard to absolve bad actors of responsibility rather than to eliminate them from the group.

Were police unions to not defend so blindly,  and would actually ostracize those violators, the job wouldn’t retain or even attract so many of these bad actors. 

Edited by Reagan1k

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50 minutes ago, slorch said:

good luck changing the firefighters.  That shit dates back to 1736 and Ben Franklin.

Firefighters are mostly volunteers. There is a wild difference between them and cops.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Firefighters are mostly volunteers. There is a wild difference between them and cops.

wut?

am I missing a joke here? not being sarcastic.  Unions are a huge part of life for paid firefighters.  That's not to lump the firefighters in with the cops either, with regard to protectionism. 

my post was in reply to someone who said no public sectors should have unions.  I say again... good luck with that.

Edited by slorch

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31 minutes ago, slorch said:

wut?

am I missing a joke here? not being sarcastic.  Unions are a huge part of life for paid firefighters.  That's not to lump the firefighters in with the cops either, with regard to protectionism. 

my post was in reply to someone who said no public sectors should have unions.  I say again... good luck with that.

Yeah I'm just saying there usually isn't some financial motive to protecting bad actors in firefighter unions.

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45 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

When firefighter start shooting people for not living through the fire, then we may have a problem.

 

ColorfulInfiniteAntarcticgiantpetrel-siz

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2 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

The police union is the only professional group that comes to my mind which on balance vigorously and without question protects its own regardless..... and often to the detriment of the good /decent law abiding members.

It has created a culture that punishes efforts to clean house from the inside and puts the bad cops in a dominant position above the good ones who are forced to go along to get along.  What starts as a few bad apples literally spoils the whole bunch as witnesses to this behavior become complicit in the coverups and excuse making. 

You don’t see other industry or professional groups fight so hard to absolve bad actors of responsibility rather than to eliminate them from the group.

Were police unions to not defend so blindly,  and would actually ostracize those violators, the job wouldn’t retain or even attract so many of these bad actors. 

MLB is just as bad and AA Flight Attendants is worse. 

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AA Flight Attendants is worse. 

Sounds like a guy who got criticized for dipping on a plane.

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16 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

The police union is the only professional group that comes to my mind which on balance vigorously and without question protects its own regardless..... and often to the detriment of the good /decent law abiding members.

Teachers.....

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16 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

The police union is the only professional group that comes to my mind which on balance vigorously and without question protects its own regardless..... and often to the detriment of the good /decent law abiding members.

It has created a culture that punishes efforts to clean house from the inside and puts the bad cops in a dominant position above the good ones who are forced to go along to get along.  What starts as a few bad apples literally spoils the whole bunch as witnesses to this behavior become complicit in the coverups and excuse making. 

You don’t see other industry or professional groups fight so hard to absolve bad actors of responsibility rather than to eliminate them from the group.

Were police unions to not defend so blindly,  and would actually ostracize those violators, the job wouldn’t retain or even attract so many of these bad actors. 

Unions are built to protect their own as a function of protecting the collective.  while I am no big fan of private sector unions, companies can move or shut down.  public sector unions should not be allowed at all for any group. 

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@Dr. Beeper @BabaYaga @dcar00     Points well taken -

Maybe I didn't consider it closely enough, or maybe I've thinking more of excusing / defending obvious and very serious criminal behavior - I think that's where my thought process was........ that they'll ride or die even with those they know to be committing egregious felonies.  Maybe I'm naive to the inner workings of other unions but that's where the distinction was made in my mind. 

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2 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

@Dr. Beeper @BabaYaga @dcar00     Points well taken -

Maybe I didn't consider it closely enough, or maybe I've thinking more of excusing / defending obvious and very serious criminal behavior - I think that's where my thought process was........ that they'll ride or die even with those they know to be committing egregious felonies.  Maybe I'm naive to the inner workings of other unions but that's where the distinction was made in my mind. 

fair enough.  what do you consider very serious criminal behavior?

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5 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Teachers.....

 

Do teachers unions and teachers at large ostracize and punish educators who see something and say something?

Fuck your false equivalency man. Teachers aren't killing people and getting away with it in plain sight.

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On 7/6/2020 at 7:08 PM, bernorange said:

Training won't fix a personality defect.  Accountability is the right Rx.

...and not just criminal culpability. Make the Union pay for law suits not the city or state. We already compensate them through taxes. The burden of fuck ups should come from their savings accounts not ours.

Watch shit change real quick if you do that along with oversight from non-criminal justice employee third parties.

Put those in motion and the rest follow...

Also, end the War on drugs.

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Meanwhile, back on topic, you shouldn't be hearing much from either camp about the case itself anytime soon. Gag order put on by the judge. 

 

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About a week after Gov. Tim Walz wrote to President Trump requesting federal aid to repair widespread damage in Minneapolis and St. Paul from the fiery George Floyd protests, the Federal Emergency Management Agency rebuffed the request for a financial helping hand.

The state has estimated total damages at more than $500 million, and Walz specifically wrote in his July 2 letter that $15 million in cleanup and repair costs could be eligible for federal reimbursement.

“The governor is disappointed that the federal government declined his request for financial support ... to help Minnesota rebuild after civil unrest damaged public infrastructure and caused extensive fire damage in the wake of George Floyd’s death,” spokesman Teddy Tschann said in a statement.

 

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-minnesota-george-floyd-relief-fema-20200711-yaunv5e3zna3datwb52ga66iqi-story.html

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I've never been...is that better or worse than before?

Seriously though, holy shit.

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Not sure where he's getting those pictures and video, but that video is old enough to draw Social Security. 

On an aside, has it already been seven weeks since George Floyd was killed? JFC, this feels like a year. 

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22 minutes ago, GopherRock said:

Not sure where he's getting those pictures and video, but that video is old enough to draw Social Security. 

On an aside, has it already been seven weeks since George Floyd was killed? JFC, this feels like a year. 

How old is it?

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22 hours ago, workswithseed said:

How old is it?

That footage was likely taken on the weekend of May 30-31. The fires have been put out, and many of the rubble piles have been hauled off.

But yes, things were in really bad shape during and after the rioting. 

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On 7/7/2020 at 6:30 PM, Reagan1k said:

The police union is the only professional group that comes to my mind which on balance vigorously and without question protects its own regardless..... and often to the detriment of the good /decent law abiding members.

It has created a culture that punishes efforts to clean house from the inside and puts the bad cops in a dominant position above the good ones who are forced to go along to get along.  What starts as a few bad apples literally spoils the whole bunch as witnesses to this behavior become complicit in the coverups and excuse making. 

You don’t see other industry or professional groups fight so hard to absolve bad actors of responsibility rather than to eliminate them from the group.

Were police unions to not defend so blindly,  and would actually ostracize those violators, the job wouldn’t retain or even attract so many of these bad actors. 

Maybe the Screen Actors' Guild, but yes

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Busy day in the reckoning front here.

First, the badgecams are starting to be shown to local reporters in 1-hour blocks. Thread below.

Second, the families have filed an inevitable wrongful-death suit against the cops and MPD. 

https://kare11.com/embeds/video/89-1587028/iframe?jwsource=cl

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/george-floyd/attorney-of-floyd-family-to-announce-civil-lawsuit-against-city-of-minneapolis/89-83504464-061a-4b64-b8a4-cd7c02aa527e

For comparison, the family of Justine Damond settled for $20 million, and the family of Philando Castille was ~$3.5 million. This one is going to be a lot more than that. Add this to the estimated $10M to rebuild the 3rd Precinct house, and it's clear that Derek Chauvin is going to cost the Minneapolis taxpayer a pile of money.

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Posted (edited)

Not sure if I should start another thread but fuck it.

As y'all know, the pigs have appropriated the punisher skull as a symbol of their tyranny.

As you may not know, the creator of The Punisher, Gerry Conway, is non too happy about it. He has realeased BLM t shirts with a new take on his classic icon. The line is called Skulls for Justice.

All proceeds go to BLM fund.

Mine arrived today

 

20200715_134636.jpg

Edited by MissingInAction

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On 7/15/2020 at 1:46 PM, MissingInAction said:

Not sure if I should start another thread but fuck it.

As y'all know, the pigs have appropriated the punisher skull as a symbol of their tyranny.

As you may not know, the creator of The Punisher, Gerry Conway, is non too happy about it. He has realeased BLM t shirts with a new take on his classic icon. The line is called Skulls for Justice.

All proceeds go to BLM fund.

Mine arrived today

 

I ordered the Black Sabbath BLM shirt.  Haven't received it yet.  Was supposed to ship Tuesday.

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Charred body found in the rubble of a pawn shop burned down by mostly peaceful protesters:

https://www.startribune.com/body-found-in-wreckage-of-mpls-pawn-shop-burned-during-george-floyd-unrest/571838681/

Authorities found the charred body of a man in the wreckage of a south Minneapolis pawnshop, nearly two months after the building was torched in the rioting that followed George Floyd's death.

Investigators from the Minneapolis Police Department, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the state fire marshal's division were acting on a tip when they discovered the body Monday morning in the rubble of Max It Pawn, at 2726 E. Lake St., according to Police Department spokesman John Elder.

"The body appears to have suffered thermal injury and we do have somebody charged with setting fire to that place," said Elder, adding that city homicide detectives had taken over the investigation. He said that the victim's identity would be released by medical examiners after an autopsy is completed, along with the precise cause and manner of death.

The site is several blocks east of the shuttered Third Precinct police station, the epicenter of the protests that broke out after Floyd's death May 25 under the knee of a since-fired city police officer...

...If the death is ruled a homicide, it would the city's 36th of the year — compared with 18 at this time last year....

 

"It's ok, it's just property.  Insurance will pay for it."

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6 minutes ago, GopherRock said:

Derek Chauvin and his soon-to-be ex charged with 9 state counts of tax fraud.

https://www.startribune.com/fired-minneapolis-officer-derek-chauvin-wife-charged-with-tax-crimes/571864051/

They had a whole range of shitty tax moves too

Quote

The county attorney called the Chauvins’ tax troubles “run of the mill, but it just happens to be the [police officer] sitting in Oak Park [Heights prison]. … The guy owes us money, and I want to collect. I don’t care about his other problems.”

The filing includes a litany of allegations. Among them, prosecutors say the Chauvins bought a new BMW X5 in January 2018 for $100,230 from a Minnetonka dealership and registered the SUV in Florida — they own a condo in Windemere — and paid $4,664 in taxes in that state.

However, the vehicle was serviced 11 times in Minnetonka and never in Florida, investigators say they found. Kellie Chauvin told investigators they opted for Florida because it was less expensive. The taxes due on the SUV had it been registered in Minnesota were $5,053.

Court records do not list an attorney for either of the Chauvins. Derek Chauvin’s criminal attorney, Eric Nelson, said he knows nothing about the tax allegations.

The counts and their dates are identical for the Chauvins. There are six involving aiding and abetting allegations of false or fraudulent returns starting with the 2014 tax year. The others allege not filing taxes for the years 2016, 2017 and 2018.

The charges document various sources of income for the couple. The complaints said that between 2014- 2019, Derek Chauvin made between $52,000 and $72,000 annually as a police officer. He also worked off-duty security nearly every weekend in that time at the El Nuevo Rodeo dance club, Cub Foods, Midtown Global Market and EME Antro Bar on E. Lake Street.

During that span, Chauvin failed to pay taxes on nearly $96,000 her earned from El Nuevo Rodeo alone, investigators estimated.

Beginning in June 2019, he routinely worked off-duty at EME Antro Bar on weekends from 11 p.m. to 2:30 a.m. after his MPD shift and was paid $250 in cash each night, said investigators, who located no corresponding tax papers.

Failing to report income is pretty clear-cut tax fraud, glad his past actions are all catching up to this criminal.

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I think some police are severely underpaid. But a $100k BMW X5?   Seriously?

if the nation learned how many law enforcement agents were involved in the interstate transfer of bulk Narcotics, our nation would break in half.  When the shit gets into our country, it’s not Mexicans in old Pontiac fieros moving the product around; its vehicles protected by myriad LEOs that provide cover for the product to hit every corner of this nation.  And they are paid well to do it.  It’s a very well run network with no hierarchy and few moving parts.  

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I wish the identity of the umbrella guy would have been exposed.  Also, beaten to a pulp.  White nationalist, Antifa, foreign agitator?  I've seen on YouTube that some have said he was a police office.  I don't believe this has been confirmed.

We know now. Shocker!!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/28/minneapolis-protests-umbrella-man-alleged-white-supremacist



Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

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On 7/7/2020 at 9:59 AM, Captainant said:

The point is more that from looking at existing data, there is no correlation between increased training and improved behavior, for lack of a better term. This is a REALLY good twitter thread that sticks to data to back its points

 

 

The lower hanging fruit IMO is to change the relationship and power dynamic between the police unions and the cities they work for. The ability to play a shell game with serial offender officers and bury past wrongs is arguably the single largest contributing factor to our current animosity with policing.

Police unions need to be made illegal.  Start right there and a shit-ton of other issues just disappear.

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https://www.startribune.com/daily-mail-leaks-bodycam-footage-of-george-floyd-arrest-killing/571995372/

Quote

The Daily Mail published an article on its website at 10:53 a.m. Central Time with the videos. It showed about 10 minutes of video from former officer Thomas Lane's bodycam and about 18 minutes from former officer J. Alexander Kueng's bodycam.

The two former officers' bodycam videos were made available for public viewing inside the Hennepin County courthouse in mid-July, but were prohibited from being recorded or publicly distributed.

It's unclear how the Daily Mail got the videos. The article said they were "leaked" to the company.

...

The courts had provided a large room and several laptops to view the videos, and required attendees to stow away their own personal laptops and cellphones during the hourlong viewing sessions. Sheriff's deputies and court staff were stationed throughout the room as several members of the media and public viewed the videos.

The two videos, which totaled about 65 minutes, were made viewable to the media and public by appointment only. Sixty-six slots were made available.

Attorney Earl Gray had filed the videos in court in early July as evidence supporting his motion to dismiss the charges against Lane, his client. Court filings make evidence, including bodycam footage, public data, according to state law.

A coalition of local and national media companies, including the Star Tribune, filed a motion in July seeking their immediate release. Cahill took the issue under advisement and has not issued a decision on the matter.

The videos, which were viewed by Star Tribune reporters in July, showed that Floyd was given no explanation for why he was being questioned before Lane pointed a gun and swore at him, touched him multiple times and forced him out of his vehicle into the street.

Kueng and Lane had responded to Cup Foods on May 25 on a report that Floyd had allegedly used a counterfeit $20 bill. They arrested Floyd. Their former colleagues, Derek Chauvin and Tou Thao, arrived later to help them.

Pretty crazy that someone was able to sneak a device in and film the whole video without getting caught. Jury selection just got more difficult

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Controversial take incoming...

The mentally ill and the drug addicted are worthy of care, attention, and life.

Totally agree.

However, this is not what we were led to believe was the case, or the reason.

Edited by Rip76

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