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Minneapolis Cop Murders A Black Man

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I agree, we need way more training, and not just when they start.  Should be annual.


There are studies that show that training is not the answer. I’ve linked them multiple times.

There are differences of opinion of course. I heard a recommendation from a Navy Seal that cops should probably spend 20 percent of their time training.

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6 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

 


There are studies that show that training is not the answer. I’ve linked them multiple times.

There are differences of opinion of course. I heard a recommendation from a Navy Seal that cops should probably spend 20 percent of their time training.

 

Ha, Jocko

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

 


There are studies that show that training is not the answer. I’ve linked them multiple times.

There are differences of opinion of course. I heard a recommendation from a Navy Seal that cops should probably spend 20 percent of their time training.

 

Maybe the type of training is wrong. More training on de-escalation. More hand to hand defense. Better situational awareness etc. 

At a basic level too many are simply completely out of shape. Start there. I doubt their current level of training is anywhere near 20% of their time after the academy. With so much billed overtime how can they be?  Plenty of studies show performance is difficult to maintain when working too many hours. This is a high stress occupation that bills high levels of OT in most major metropolitan areas.
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2015/01/26/working-more-than-50-hours-makes-you-less-productive.html

many more on google professing the same

*of course it’s not the only variable to the equation 

Edited by ChickenSandwich

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12 hours ago, bernorange said:

Training won't fix a personality defect.  Accountability is the right Rx.

This.

Make their bosses accountable and stop acting as if the fuckups are one offs or exceptions.

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2 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

I completely agree about accountability, which does not negate the need to re-evaluate training duration and method.
 

The point is more that from looking at existing data, there is no correlation between increased training and improved behavior, for lack of a better term. This is a REALLY good twitter thread that sticks to data to back its points

 

 

The lower hanging fruit IMO is to change the relationship and power dynamic between the police unions and the cities they work for. The ability to play a shell game with serial offender officers and bury past wrongs is arguably the single largest contributing factor to our current animosity with policing.

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26 minutes ago, Captainant said:

The lower hanging fruit IMO is to change the relationship and power dynamic between the police unions and the cities they work for. The ability to play a shell game with serial offender officers and bury past wrongs is arguably the single largest contributing factor to our current animosity with policing.

Yep.  You'll know if the leaders are serious or not by whether they address this structural aspect, or simply shuffle a few numbers around in the budget (#defund).  I think the political ramifications of this would cut deep.  Taking on the unions won't stop at the LE level.  Teachers would be next.  Then further down the public sector.  

27 minutes ago, Captainant said:

The point is more that from looking at existing data, there is no correlation between increased training and improved behavior, for lack of a better term. This is a REALLY good twitter thread that sticks to data to back its points

To date, this person is correct.  Much of the training has been sub-par.  It's also been the LE equivalent of "corporate diversity" training as well for many precincts.  What you are not seeing, are the significant numbers of LE's that seek out their own training when off duty.  From BJJ classes, to pistol and carbine classes at various places from high-end like Taran Tactical/Thunder Ranch to weekend mom/pop places.  It's impossible to quantify the hours and impact, but anecdotal evidence from LE's are that those guys see the least amount of issues....especially those comfortable when someone lays hands on them (Such as Greg Anderson in WA state)

The idea that "no" training is effective doesn't hold up.  Do they really think that trained individuals from the most prestigious Tier I groups couldn't do a better job?  Of course they could/would.  Such stringent screening and the lengthy pipeline development process isn't something you can scale.  But there is room in the middle.  Constant training.  Constant fitness requirements.  Constant drilling and situational scenarios designed to teach stress inoculation and management.  Fine if you want to integrate social workers, etc - but the front line LE's need to be better prepared to do their jobs, along with a structural change to constantly jettison the bad actors or sub-par performers.  

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

there should be no public sector unions...

good luck changing the firefighters.  That shit dates back to 1736 and Ben Franklin.

Edited by slorch

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Posted (edited)

The police union is the only professional group that comes to my mind which on balance vigorously and without question protects its own regardless..... and often to the detriment of the good /decent law abiding members.

It has created a culture that punishes efforts to clean house from the inside and puts the bad cops in a dominant position above the good ones who are forced to go along to get along.  What starts as a few bad apples literally spoils the whole bunch as witnesses to this behavior become complicit in the coverups and excuse making. 

You don’t see other industry or professional groups fight so hard to absolve bad actors of responsibility rather than to eliminate them from the group.

Were police unions to not defend so blindly,  and would actually ostracize those violators, the job wouldn’t retain or even attract so many of these bad actors. 

Edited by Reagan1k

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50 minutes ago, slorch said:

good luck changing the firefighters.  That shit dates back to 1736 and Ben Franklin.

Firefighters are mostly volunteers. There is a wild difference between them and cops.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Firefighters are mostly volunteers. There is a wild difference between them and cops.

wut?

am I missing a joke here? not being sarcastic.  Unions are a huge part of life for paid firefighters.  That's not to lump the firefighters in with the cops either, with regard to protectionism. 

my post was in reply to someone who said no public sectors should have unions.  I say again... good luck with that.

Edited by slorch

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31 minutes ago, slorch said:

wut?

am I missing a joke here? not being sarcastic.  Unions are a huge part of life for paid firefighters.  That's not to lump the firefighters in with the cops either, with regard to protectionism. 

my post was in reply to someone who said no public sectors should have unions.  I say again... good luck with that.

Yeah I'm just saying there usually isn't some financial motive to protecting bad actors in firefighter unions.

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45 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

When firefighter start shooting people for not living through the fire, then we may have a problem.

 

ColorfulInfiniteAntarcticgiantpetrel-siz

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2 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

The police union is the only professional group that comes to my mind which on balance vigorously and without question protects its own regardless..... and often to the detriment of the good /decent law abiding members.

It has created a culture that punishes efforts to clean house from the inside and puts the bad cops in a dominant position above the good ones who are forced to go along to get along.  What starts as a few bad apples literally spoils the whole bunch as witnesses to this behavior become complicit in the coverups and excuse making. 

You don’t see other industry or professional groups fight so hard to absolve bad actors of responsibility rather than to eliminate them from the group.

Were police unions to not defend so blindly,  and would actually ostracize those violators, the job wouldn’t retain or even attract so many of these bad actors. 

MLB is just as bad and AA Flight Attendants is worse. 

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AA Flight Attendants is worse. 

Sounds like a guy who got criticized for dipping on a plane.

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16 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

The police union is the only professional group that comes to my mind which on balance vigorously and without question protects its own regardless..... and often to the detriment of the good /decent law abiding members.

Teachers.....

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16 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

The police union is the only professional group that comes to my mind which on balance vigorously and without question protects its own regardless..... and often to the detriment of the good /decent law abiding members.

It has created a culture that punishes efforts to clean house from the inside and puts the bad cops in a dominant position above the good ones who are forced to go along to get along.  What starts as a few bad apples literally spoils the whole bunch as witnesses to this behavior become complicit in the coverups and excuse making. 

You don’t see other industry or professional groups fight so hard to absolve bad actors of responsibility rather than to eliminate them from the group.

Were police unions to not defend so blindly,  and would actually ostracize those violators, the job wouldn’t retain or even attract so many of these bad actors. 

Unions are built to protect their own as a function of protecting the collective.  while I am no big fan of private sector unions, companies can move or shut down.  public sector unions should not be allowed at all for any group. 

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@Dr. Beeper @BabaYaga @dcar00     Points well taken -

Maybe I didn't consider it closely enough, or maybe I've thinking more of excusing / defending obvious and very serious criminal behavior - I think that's where my thought process was........ that they'll ride or die even with those they know to be committing egregious felonies.  Maybe I'm naive to the inner workings of other unions but that's where the distinction was made in my mind. 

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2 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

@Dr. Beeper @BabaYaga @dcar00     Points well taken -

Maybe I didn't consider it closely enough, or maybe I've thinking more of excusing / defending obvious and very serious criminal behavior - I think that's where my thought process was........ that they'll ride or die even with those they know to be committing egregious felonies.  Maybe I'm naive to the inner workings of other unions but that's where the distinction was made in my mind. 

fair enough.  what do you consider very serious criminal behavior?

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5 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Teachers.....

 

Do teachers unions and teachers at large ostracize and punish educators who see something and say something?

Fuck your false equivalency man. Teachers aren't killing people and getting away with it in plain sight.

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On 7/6/2020 at 7:08 PM, bernorange said:

Training won't fix a personality defect.  Accountability is the right Rx.

...and not just criminal culpability. Make the Union pay for law suits not the city or state. We already compensate them through taxes. The burden of fuck ups should come from their savings accounts not ours.

Watch shit change real quick if you do that along with oversight from non-criminal justice employee third parties.

Put those in motion and the rest follow...

Also, end the War on drugs.

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Meanwhile, back on topic, you shouldn't be hearing much from either camp about the case itself anytime soon. Gag order put on by the judge. 

 

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About a week after Gov. Tim Walz wrote to President Trump requesting federal aid to repair widespread damage in Minneapolis and St. Paul from the fiery George Floyd protests, the Federal Emergency Management Agency rebuffed the request for a financial helping hand.

The state has estimated total damages at more than $500 million, and Walz specifically wrote in his July 2 letter that $15 million in cleanup and repair costs could be eligible for federal reimbursement.

“The governor is disappointed that the federal government declined his request for financial support ... to help Minnesota rebuild after civil unrest damaged public infrastructure and caused extensive fire damage in the wake of George Floyd’s death,” spokesman Teddy Tschann said in a statement.

 

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-minnesota-george-floyd-relief-fema-20200711-yaunv5e3zna3datwb52ga66iqi-story.html

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Not sure where he's getting those pictures and video, but that video is old enough to draw Social Security. 

On an aside, has it already been seven weeks since George Floyd was killed? JFC, this feels like a year. 

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22 minutes ago, GopherRock said:

Not sure where he's getting those pictures and video, but that video is old enough to draw Social Security. 

On an aside, has it already been seven weeks since George Floyd was killed? JFC, this feels like a year. 

How old is it?

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22 hours ago, workswithseed said:

How old is it?

That footage was likely taken on the weekend of May 30-31. The fires have been put out, and many of the rubble piles have been hauled off.

But yes, things were in really bad shape during and after the rioting. 

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On 7/7/2020 at 6:30 PM, Reagan1k said:

The police union is the only professional group that comes to my mind which on balance vigorously and without question protects its own regardless..... and often to the detriment of the good /decent law abiding members.

It has created a culture that punishes efforts to clean house from the inside and puts the bad cops in a dominant position above the good ones who are forced to go along to get along.  What starts as a few bad apples literally spoils the whole bunch as witnesses to this behavior become complicit in the coverups and excuse making. 

You don’t see other industry or professional groups fight so hard to absolve bad actors of responsibility rather than to eliminate them from the group.

Were police unions to not defend so blindly,  and would actually ostracize those violators, the job wouldn’t retain or even attract so many of these bad actors. 

Maybe the Screen Actors' Guild, but yes

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Busy day in the reckoning front here.

First, the badgecams are starting to be shown to local reporters in 1-hour blocks. Thread below.

Second, the families have filed an inevitable wrongful-death suit against the cops and MPD. 

https://kare11.com/embeds/video/89-1587028/iframe?jwsource=cl

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/george-floyd/attorney-of-floyd-family-to-announce-civil-lawsuit-against-city-of-minneapolis/89-83504464-061a-4b64-b8a4-cd7c02aa527e

For comparison, the family of Justine Damond settled for $20 million, and the family of Philando Castille was ~$3.5 million. This one is going to be a lot more than that. Add this to the estimated $10M to rebuild the 3rd Precinct house, and it's clear that Derek Chauvin is going to cost the Minneapolis taxpayer a pile of money.

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Not sure if I should start another thread but fuck it.

As y'all know, the pigs have appropriated the punisher skull as a symbol of their tyranny.

As you may not know, the creator of The Punisher, Gerry Conway, is non too happy about it. He has realeased BLM t shirts with a new take on his classic icon. The line is called Skulls for Justice.

All proceeds go to BLM fund.

Mine arrived today

 

20200715_134636.jpg

Edited by MissingInAction

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