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Joaquin Phoenix as Joker

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7 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

Phoenix may actually be mentally ill.

did you see “I’m still here”? 

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On 10/13/2019 at 1:04 PM, HoustonFrog said:

 


Yeh I hear you - but Arthur seems a long way from any type of coherent planning.

Anyways - just an opinion

 

He learns to be a coherent criminal like most do, behind bars. He'll escape after a few years in the criminal academy.

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So my small complaint is that in this version by the time Batman is saving Gotham, the Joker will be spending his social security checks on Luby's. He's only becoming the Joker at what, 45?  And Bruce Wayne is still a child?   The age difference between the two is a little large. 

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10 hours ago, Tom said:

So my small complaint is that in this version by the time Batman is saving Gotham, the Joker will be spending his social security checks on Luby's. He's only becoming the Joker at what, 45?  And Bruce Wayne is still a child?   The age difference between the two is a little large. 

how much older was joker than michael keaton?

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5 hours ago, Your Mom said:

Matthew Modine played Joker the best.

his performance really suggested something about the duality of man. 

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So my small complaint is that in this version by the time Batman is saving Gotham, the Joker will be spending his social security checks on Luby's. He's only becoming the Joker at what, 45?  And Bruce Wayne is still a child?   The age difference between the two is a little large. 


In the movie, Joker mentions his mom was in the asylum 30 years ago. He was too young to remember her being away so in the movieverse he was probably around 33. Hey, it was the 70s. Everybody looked older than they were. It was hard times to be alive.

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6 hours ago, futureman said:

his performance really suggested something about the duality of man. 

and sniffing panties.

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On 10/24/2019 at 12:31 PM, futureman said:

the fat man was errol childress from true detective season 1.  knew he looked familiar. 

great in Barry

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In the movie, Joker mentions his mom was in the asylum 30 years ago. He was too young to remember her being away so in the movieverse he was probably around 33. Hey, it was the 70s. Everybody looked older than they were. It was hard times to be alive.

 

Dude smoked like 2 packs a day, was malnourished, constantly stressed, probably didnt sleep regularly. Makes sense. He’s been Brimley’d.

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35 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

The actors are 14 years apart.

 

14 years... 40.  doesn’t matter.  age is a construct. 

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Saw it again. Not to preach, but having worked with mental ill people, and it ln turn making me a loon myself - see alcoholic thread -  This is one of my all times faves. Brilliant movie. 

Edited by hundredTT

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as said before, the fact that he’s kind of a simple guy is a detriment to the character.  you can be a brilliant, mad genius and still be fucked in the head enough to cripple your life before you become a kingpin.  I enjoyed the movie but heath ledger’s joker seemed like that mad genius.  phoenix’s joker was not the smartest guy in the room and it kept the character from being even better.  imo. 

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as said before, the fact that he’s kind of a simple guy is a detriment to the character.  you can be a brilliant, mad genius and still be fucked in the head enough to cripple your life before you become a kingpin.  I enjoyed the movie but heath ledger’s joker seemed like that mad genius.  phoenix’s joker was not the smartest guy in the room and it kept the character from being even better.  imo. 


I think you’re missing the point. You have an expectation of what the Joker is. Your expectation is not valid criticism. This character is not supposed to be cool or smart, but feared and pitied.

At the end of the day, it’s like saying the detriment to Troy Aikman’s game was his inability to scramble. That’s just not the type of QB he was, nor would it have helped the Cowboys win more games-probably to the contrary. You can appreciate both Aikman and Steve Young, if you know your 90’s football gods. No need to have an expectation of what a QB should be ruin your respect for great play.

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6 hours ago, Eskimohorn said:

 think you’re missing the point. You have an expectation of what the Joker is. Your expectation is not valid criticism. This character is not supposed to be cool or smart, but feared and pitied.

At the end of the day, it’s like saying the detriment to Troy Aikman’s game was his inability to scramble. That’s just not the type of QB he was, nor would it have helped the Cowboys win more games-probably to the contrary. You can appreciate both Aikman and Steve Young, if you know your 90’s football gods. No need to have an expectation of what a QB should be ruin your respect for great play.

 

it’s just my opinion, man.  heath ledger’s joker was better, and creepier, because he was so smart.  we didn’t pity him at all.  to an extent we pitied phoenix’s joker.  I think it’s a detriment.  my opinion.  everything you said about running quarterbacks is asinine. 

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finally saw this last night.  thought it was incredible.  i had been told that it was very dark and intense and it definitely lived up to that description.  thought ledger's joker would never be topped, but fuck if phoenix might not have done so.  

the film was definitely a very strong commentary on mental illness and the difference between the haves and have nots in this country.

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Heath had such a great acting performance, but he was just a freaking regular guy too.  This is the START of the Joker...he's not the fully established mad genius he is later.  Jesus.

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I think you’re missing the point. You have an expectation of what the Joker is. Your expectation is not valid criticism. This character is not supposed to be cool or smart, but feared and pitied.

At the end of the day, it’s like saying the detriment to Troy Aikman’s game was his inability to scramble. That’s just not the type of QB he was, nor would it have helped the Cowboys win more games-probably to the contrary. You can appreciate both Aikman and Steve Young, if you know your 90’s football gods. No need to have an expectation of what a QB should be ruin your respect for great play.



People freaked out when Rian Johnson took Star Wars in a different direction. Some aren’t going to like this Joker for similar reasons.

I thought the movie was great but agree that it kinda lets the Joker off the hook by making him a mentally challenged victim. Ledger’s Joker was better because he was unhinged but diabolical and smart. “Who did you leave him with?”

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4 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

 


People freaked out when Rian Johnson took Star Wars in a different direction. Some aren’t going to like this Joker for similar reasons.

I thought the movie was great but agree that it kinda lets the Joker off the hook by making him a mentally challenged victim. Ledger’s Joker was better because he was unhinged but diabolical and smart. “Who did you leave him with?”

 

Again, this is the beginning of the creation of the Joker.  Ledgers Joker is the comic book incarnation, evil, wicked, and well played, but this is a real life person driven to madness, and ultimately evil.  "Better" is very subjective here.

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On 11/9/2019 at 12:52 AM, Eskimohorn said:

 


I think you’re missing the point. You have an expectation of what the Joker is. Your expectation is not valid criticism. This character is not supposed to be cool or smart, but feared and pitied.

At the end of the day, it’s like saying the detriment to Troy Aikman’s game was his inability to scramble. That’s just not the type of QB he was, nor would it have helped the Cowboys win more games-probably to the contrary. You can appreciate both Aikman and Steve Young, if you know your 90’s football gods. No need to have an expectation of what a QB should be ruin your respect for great play.
 

 

Aikman was no Mike White 

Edited by Trey3216

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2 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

 


People freaked out when Rian Johnson took Star Wars in a different direction. Some aren’t going to like this Joker for similar reasons.

I thought the movie was great but agree that it kinda lets the Joker off the hook by making him a mentally challenged victim. Ledger’s Joker was better because he was unhinged but diabolical and smart. “Who did you leave him with?”

 

Lol

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Again, this is the beginning of the creation of the Joker.  Ledgers Joker is the comic book incarnation, evil, wicked, and well played, but this is a real life person driven to madness, and ultimately evil.  "Better" is very subjective here.


I hope we never find out. The movie was good, no need for a sequel.

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1 minute ago, Buzzrock said:

 


I hope we never find out. The movie was good, no need for a sequel.

 

I think it set itself up for a sequel.

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Just now, Buzzrock said:

That’s not what the director said.

Well, the studio owns the rights, so if there's money to be made....

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They aren't in the same ballpark as far as the takes on the character. Ledger is just an agent of chaos. He's diabolical. He's not insane. He may do crazy things but his actions are nothing more than watching the world burn and upsetting the natural order. That's a lot closer to what the comic book Joker is. He's Batman's foil.

Phoenix is a person going down the path to insanity and we see that before he ultimately has the mental snap to become the character people are used to the Joker being. At no point is he diabolical. The movement and frankly his "birth" as a character happens around him. He's not leading it directly. He stumbles into starting a movement. That's why I'll contend this really isn't a comic book movie. It's a great study into the descent of madness and it makes people uncomfortable because it could easily happen every day in our society. 

Edited by mdmost

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1 hour ago, mdmost said:

That's why I'll contend this really isn't a comic book movie.

Not to pick on your or quibble about this, but I feel like this is the other side of the coin that cuts the other way from the Scorsese "Marvel isn't Cinema"-gate. 

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1 hour ago, Pimphand said:

 

That was a bit for an Indy movie he was filming and all the people he interacted with had no clue why he behaved certain ways. 

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17 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

That was a bit for an Indy movie he was filming and all the people he interacted with had no clue why he behaved certain ways. 

Yes I know he went on Letterman 18 months later to talk about it.  I still think it is a funny retort to the aforementioned statement.

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