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I'll admit it, I'm getting a little depressed.


tantric superman

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I share your fears.  I'm afraid of what this country will look like in another generation.

All we can really do is take care of our own little corners of the universe.  And maybe start planning for an exodus someday, because I'm afraid the horde of idiots will eventually win.

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The emboldened idiots were never going to just disappear.  But removing them from the most prominent positions was always important.  That mission was accomplished.  Now the next phase comes, which may seem like whack-a-mole.

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I'm starting to get a bit hopeless about the nonsense in the US and Texas

Welcome!  I'm not in Texas anymore, so I can tell you, its really the whole US.  If you want to add some humor to your depression google up "george carlin big club."  I often think Carlin was more of a prophet than a comedian.  Some Bill Hicks stuff also.

In short, the owners aren't going to allow things to change all that much.  It is the system that has failed you and me, and that system isn't going away.  That's not a positive for most of us, but there's not much you can do about it.  

 

Edited by MC Fresh Breath
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Well I wasn't depressed before, but now I'm teetering.  Thanks OP.  I keep hoping the adults in the R party will take charge, but I've been replaying that hope since 2015.

Yea, he's getting a lot of coverage, but there's no way the party will let him get the nomination.

Yea, he talks a lot of shit, but the Rs will surround him with a strong cabinet and keep him in line.

Yea, he strong armed his cabinet, but congress will do its duty and keep him in line.  

Yea, congress kowtowed to him, but next election will emphatically reject trumpism and give the dems a clear mandate.  

Im currently on yea, trump lost, and now the old guard Rs will seize the opportunity to reestablish control over the party.  Mitch seemed to be leaning that way, but it feels like the football is being yanked away again.  

 

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9 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

I think you are getting bummed at the exact wrong time.  The wave just crested, imo.  We are on the backside of this.  Think of the demographics that are driving this moronic behavior, and think of trendlines of those demographics.

 

I don't know man.  There weren't that many olds with walkers that stormed the Capitol.

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26 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I started to change when Oliver North became a national hero during the actor's time as president. It just got worse.

Another milestone was the re-election of W after such a disastrous four years. The swiftboating of a decorated combat soldier in favor of a guy who couldn't show up for National Guard duty was jaw-dropping and demoralizing.

Trump's candidacy started as an amusing bit of spice that mortifyingly took over the entire dish. His nomination and election proved that the electorate was not merely stupid; they are malignly embracing a huge lie. His election was jaw-dropping.

After four years that make W look like good deal, 70 million Americans vote for Trump. My jaw doesn't drop, it clenches. This is bad. This is going to get worse.

It's to be a battle  pitting a massive cult that believes in a fake dangerous enemy (me and you) while invoking God in their cause against reason based in reality.  

Reason won't win or even budge religious zeal. Argument crashes on the rocks of mania. 

I think you've led me to realize an underlying reason I feel so strongly about the BLM movement and organization. They represent a righteous cause and a reason to take to the streets against the jihad. They are citizens denied the status of citizenship. The cause calls to me as a citizen and as someone who has at least some standard of fairness and decency.

Great post even if dark, my friend.

Love for America and what I thought we're supposed to stand for - and visceral hatred of everything the Trumpists stand for - are enough cause for me, but BLM is certainly a worthy one as well. 

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Is there long term hope?  Maybe.  I'll suggest that the generation aging into adulthood right now doesn't have the high density of psychotic/gullible shitheels that the older ones do.  But it's gonna be a LONG time before they end up with any real power.

The question is, can we survive that long?

You know me -- hope is for suckers.  I think we're fucked.  And the irony of it is, the people most responsible for us being fucked are going to shout at the top of their longs "WE'RE THE GREATEST COUNTRY EVAR IN THE HISTORY OF EVAR!" even as their heads slip beneath the waves.

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10 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

I think you are getting bummed at the exact wrong time.  The wave just crested, imo.  We are on the backside of this.  Think of the demographics that are driving this moronic behavior, and think of trendlines of those demographics.

 

There will be no backside for as long as the most watched cable network is radicalizing the ignorant by peddling hate and disinformation dressed up as news. 

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 “I do not pretend to understand the moral universe. The arc is a long one. My eye reaches but little ways. I cannot calculate the curve and complete the figure by experience of sight. I can divine it by conscience. And from what I see I am sure it bends toward justice.”

 

Abolitionist minister Theodore Parker, 1853

 

The pendulum swings back and forth. Perhaps it swings higher on one side at times, other times higher on the other. But unlike a physical pendulum, the equilibrium position of the moral pendulum of the universe inexorably shifts, in fits and starts, toward justice.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

I think you are getting bummed at the exact wrong time.  The wave just crested, imo.  We are on the backside of this.  Think of the demographics that are driving this moronic behavior, and think of trendlines of those demographics.

 

I completely disagree w/ this take.  I think it's just beginning and will get worse.  Two separate realities are going to rip this country to shreds.  It might take another generation or so but it will happen.  "A house divided against itself, cannot stand."  - Lincoln

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My last conversation with my father ended with him defending fascism and white supremacy. That along with accusing me of allowing my leftist associates to turn me against my own people. 

I didn't even respond after that. Just blocked him on every device I own and every social media account.

I know I will never speak to him again. 

Edited by MissingInAction
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2 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

My last conversation with my father ended with him defending fascism and white supremacy. That along with accusing me of allowing my leftist associates to turn me against my own people. 

I didn't even respond after that. Just blocked him on every device I own and every social media account.

I know I will never speak to him again. 

I hope that does not come to pass for both your sakes.

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1 minute ago, StruggleBus said:

Take some time off. Maybe go fishing. Spend some time away from the constant news cycle for a while. Seriously. Don't read a news article or keep up with anything for a few weeks. Being alive is awesome, don't waste it worrying about shit you can't control. 

Exactly. Headed to PINS for 4 days next weekend.

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Thanks for some great responses. 

I am reconnecting with some people I knew and liked in high school and some of them are Trumpy.  I kind of wish I had more time to drink with some of them at least to get to a point where they are real people again to try to work through some of this stuff on a one on one level, while we are bonding with how getting old sucks..  So yeah, while I feel a bit hopeless I think to the extent I am still communicating with some of these folks, well, maybe there is some communication left to be had.

On the broader front, yes, I think we all still need to keep the energy up so that we can work to keep stupid people from office.  There will always be plenty of that work to go around.

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Im currently on yea, trump lost, and now the old guard Rs will seize the opportunity to reestablish control over the party.  Mitch seemed to be leaning that way, but it feels like the football is being yanked away again.  
 


Right there with you. Mitch and his buddies have the chance to launch Trump into the sun yet it appears they can’t even bring themselves to do that.
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8 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

My last conversation with my father ended with him defending fascism and white supremacy. That along with accusing me of allowing my leftist associates to turn me against my own people. 

You know, I still refuse to believe that lots of this stuff is lack of ability to communicate.  I'm still holding off that some of these folks are simply resentful (wrongfully) that believe that whites are now getting the short end of the stick, and its more about white resentment than white supremacy.  Everything is so damn bombastic that that is just the way it comes out.  In other words, just because you are jumping to conclusions and stupid doesn't mean you are racist.  It probably does, but there may be exceptions, and that may include your dad.

 

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I don't usually go in on threads like this, but, I agree with Brisket to some degree. I've been driving Uber and Lyft a lot and I get to see a pretty big cross section of people in Austin, at least - which isn't the most diverse city but it paints a decent picture. Sure there are plenty of shitheads and people that, in general, suck, but there are still a lot of great people in this country. Especially the younger generations I find are simply trying to make a living and do their best to exist and are really tired of all the bullshit. That doesn't necessarily mean they are all super involved in politics or fighting every battle that needs to be fought, but there is a large sentiment of "can't we all just get along? What the fuck is wrong with people?".

I guess if I had to label the demo it's everyone who hasn't made it yet - who has really struggled through this last year - that seems to have the right attitude and exemplifies what America should be about. They are working to make the most of their opportunity without putting others around them down. 

I remember thinking just last night that I still beleive in this country in a lot of ways. I gave a ride to a recently graduated international student from UT who is still trying to find a job and having a tough time with it - she plainly told me it can be depressing having to be isolated and having so much uncertainty about her future. Her English impressed me - as did her maturity. I gave a ride to an older black woman who had just missed her bus to get home - who lived in a very poor part of town. I gave a ride to a young hispanic girl who had dropped out of high school to help take care of her siblings but was working to get her GED and cosmetology license. I gave a ride to a girl who I assumed was a senior at St. Ed's interning or working her first job at the capitol, and we talked about the general insanity of all the increased security at the capitol and the drama of the election. We agreed on the point that "it sucks when a select few ruin it for the rest of us, huh?". 

It reminds me that we're all in this together and can't afford to be petty or hateful or divisive. Like I said, sure I get some vapid, self-involved assholes that make me weep a bit for our future - but those are generally outweighed by the good ones. The American Dream is still a thing. It might be tattered and not without shitstains but it's still there. 

Oh, and as mentioned above - take a break from the MSM cycle. If you get out in the thick of the day to day of this country it can paint a different picture. 

Edited by ztejas
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The truth is nobody knows.

But for those who are encouraged because of what they see in the youth, I would argue that a man's policy and position changes as he ages and his stations and opportunities change. Even I voted for Obama once upon a time, for example. As people grow up and see the "partner track" and what government bodes well for them to make it to the Great Green Valley, politics change. I think this evolution is pretty known as it is often cliched and misappropriated to famous people as, ‘If you’re not a liberal when you’re 25, you have no heart.  If you’re not a conservative by the time you’re 35, you have no brain (and/or money).’

Next, Trump and right wing folks who vehemently disagree with you (40% as you call them) of the country are not defeated. They've been beaten back into a retreat and the Democrats will advance the line, but they are still a formidable force and have a taste--and a pleasure-- for the fight. Also, they are better when playing defense or having to paint their faces and jump out of bush nets in the jungle versus being on the offensive and needing to be organized and disciplined.

Edited by DonkeyCigars
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1 hour ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Unless things make a remarkable change in the next 10 - 15 years there’s no fucking way I’m sticking around. 

 

I know this often gets conflated with "if so and so wins I'm moving," but I sometimes think about it in terms of "if we have a medical need when we're older, everything we have can get wiped out."  I remember reading some stat on the correlation between cancer diagnoses and bankruptcy.  I wasn't pretty.  I don't know where I would go, though.  And I very much enjoy where I am, currently.  And I have 50 years of being an ugly american under my belt.  And then there is the knowledge that I will want to be within range of my kids.  

So, while I may share the sentiment, I don't think I could handle the execution.

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13 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

You know, I still refuse to believe that lots of this stuff is lack of ability to communicate.  I'm still holding off that some of these folks are simply resentful (wrongfully) that believe that whites are now getting the short end of the stick, and its more about white resentment than white supremacy.  Everything is so damn bombastic that that is just the way it comes out.  In other words, just because you are jumping to conclusions and stupid doesn't mean you are racist.  It probably does, but there may be exceptions, and that may include your dad.

 

He is 100% racist. Always has been , but kept it to himself until the orange puss bag took over.

 

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It’s no longer politics when the bulk of one “political party” believes the other is legitimate evil and is ok using violence to remain in power.  It’s warfare. 
 

When someone is at war with you, then you are at war with them whether you want it or believe it or even know it.  Or you are conquered. 

Edited by Pato del Muerto
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10 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

The truth is nobody knows.

But for those who are encouraged because of what they see in the youth, I would argue that a man's policy and position changes as he ages and his stations and opportunities change. Even I voted for Obama once upon a time, for example. As people grow up and see the "partner track" and what government bodes well for them to make it to the Great Green Valley, politics change. I think this evolution is pretty known as it is often cliched and misappropriated to famous people as, ‘If you’re not a liberal when you’re 25, you have no heart.  If you’re not a conservative by the time you’re 35, you have no brain (and/or money).’

Next, Trump and right wing folks who vehemently disagree with you (40% as you call them) of the country are not defeated. They've been beaten back into a retreat and the Democrats will advance the line, but they are still a formidable force and have a taste--and a pleasure-- for the fight. Also, they are better when playing defense or having to paint their faces and jump out of bush nets in the jungle versus being on the offensive and needing to be organized and disciplined.

This is both right and wrong.

I don't think the old rule of "you get conservative" as you get older really holds as true anymore.  I think that so much political information is available and consumed relatively early -- whether you want to or not, even among the less-informed -- that political formation sticks more than it used to.  Of course, neither circumstance is really a "rule."

But as to the Trumpy folks -- you bet.  They are there, they are emboldened, they are going to get worse, not better.  This is a slice of America that -- by a 70-30 margin -- is just fine with the idea of seizing power through violence.  We are already WELL down the road that led Germany to the third reich.  The GOP and their supporters are not only fine with seizing power through violence, they are disappointed and angry that their leaders haven't done it already.  Nevermind that the REASONS that they are upset are insane lies (again, the echoes of nazi Germany are deafening)....what matters is that they are already there.

This is not a fringe separatist movement.  This is one of the two parties in our two party system.  That is openly ANTI-voting, and PRO-seizure of power by any means.  That's as fucking dire as it gets.

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3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This is both right and wrong.

I don't think the old rule of "you get conservative" as you get older really holds as true anymore.  I think that so much political information is available and consumed relatively early -- whether you want to or not, even among the less-informed -- that political formation sticks more than it used to.  Of course, neither circumstance is really a "rule."

But as to the Trumpy folks -- you bet.  They are there, they are emboldened, they are going to get worse, not better.  This is a slice of America that -- by a 70-30 margin -- is just fine with the idea of seizing power through violence.  We are already WELL down the road that led Germany to the third reich.  The GOP and their supporters are not only fine with seizing power through violence, they are disappointed and angry that their leaders haven't done it already.  Nevermind that the REASONS that they are upset are insane lies (again, the echoes of nazi Germany are deafening)....what matters is that they are already there.

This is not a fringe separatist movement.  This is one of the two parties in our two party system.  That is openly ANTI-voting, and PRO-seizure of power by any means.  That's as fucking dire as it gets.

Mostly agree with you here. Which is another way to mostly validate the OP's thesis. 

This country has always been hard on folks. What we got ain't nothing new. It ain't all waiting on us. That's vanity.

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3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

 

The final thought on that I have is that a way to build community is to join collective efforts to improve the world. Easy to say, hard to do.

Love all you guys who are truly feeling beaten. You aren't beaten.

 

Just now, Continental Op said:

Do some volunteer work. 

And definitely these.  I can't make the dark "not dark."  I can't do it.

But I can be light.  I can shine whenever and wherever I can.  This is definitely our family's focus.  Live kindness and decency, and spread it like a virus.  Maybe, eventually, it will infect some of the people who really need to catch it.

I'm pessimistic that it will ever make much of a difference.   But I'm also a giant fan of the futile fight -- bang your head against the wall again and again because fuck the wall.  One of my favorite scenes in all of film is Luke fighting with Dragline.  Dragline knocks him down, and he gets up, over, and over, and over, because fuck staying down.

Will we win?  I doubt it.  But fuck staying down.  Fuck that wall.

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3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

You think anyone below the age of 35 has any hope for this? I'm literally a partner in a law firm and I still think it's completely insane. Boomers and Gen Xers had the map of what life would be like growing up, and it wasn't particularly fulfilling, but there was opportunity there. Your "partner track." It may not have been glamorous, but everyone knew the path and most people knew it was available. Get an education --> get a job that will become a career -----> start a family, buy a house, etc. 

Millennials were given the map, but right before we got to the starting line boomers lit the map on fire. It's gone. The jobs that were lost in the recession were never recovered. Careers didn't come back, they were replaced with the gig economy. That's what millennials are looking at, for the rest of our lives. Gen Z has it even worse, because they'll have even more debt.

Your idea that people get more conservative as they get older was a product of an economic reality that no longer exists.

You might be right. But then again, I know a lot of professional Gen Z cuspers making really good money. The smart Gen Z's are entering the workforce smarter and more driven than ever. 

I guess it's all about the bubble you are in too, maybe I need to drive around an uber or lyft and see a bit more of my communities. I say that seriously, not as a joke.

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6 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Your idea that people get more conservative as they get older was a product of an economic reality that no longer exists.

Nail on the head. No one is getting rich by 35 save the lucky or those that were born into privilege or opportunity. Wealth is shifting to the olds more than it ever has. 

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3 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

maybe I need to drive around an uber or lyft and see a bit more of my communities. I say that seriously, not as a joke.

Not sure I'd recommend it. Some of the conversations I overhear I want to turn around and say "I swear to God I'll drive this fucking car off the next bridge and kill all of us".

Mostly joking. It's an interesting gig.

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I moved to a solid blue state a few years back. There’s still plenty of morons around, but it certainly helps the day to day mood that I no longer am governed by small-minded bigots that base their entire life on a criminal misuse of piety and faith.

Absent a real, external threat that takes a sizable percentage of the populace, there will be no changing of the tides. We’re stuck in this circle of hell. We are no longer educated enough to elevate and progress our society. We are a collection of idiots convinced of our own genius. The only prophet in my lifetime is Mike Judge. He warned us, and we just laughed. 

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1 minute ago, ztejas said:

Nail on the head. No one is getting rich by 35 save the lucky or those that were born into privilege or opportunity. Wealth is shifting to the olds more than it ever has. 

The idea of being able to buy a house before 40 without help from parents is completely foreign to basically everyone I know, and basically everyone I know has a JD or a PHD. 

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