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2023 Fall Camp Thread of Dominance


USMCHorn

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12 hours ago, sidis said:

  but it is a good example of a game that when i imagine a team without bijan robinson playing savior for the good guys, i have concerns which was my original point.

 

and sorry to all the people on here that don't enjoy football discussions.  i am certain there are some threads where you guys can trade some memes and twitter embeds about how we are unbeatable this year and shit.  i will post this again to satisfy your koolaid needs.

7wos1i.jpg

It feels like you're looking at this whole thing in a vaccum. You seem to be basing your entire argument for us sucking this year on Quinn being raw as a true freshman and one player (Bijan) leaving. 

 

I love Bijan, but as amazing as he is, an elite rb is a luxury, not a necessity. I'll take a better overall offensive unit (OL, QB, WR) over any single rb, even one as good as Bijan. 

But if just saying we suck in 2023 because one player left and our young qb struggled is "real football discussion" to you, then continue on. 

 

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49 minutes ago, Atticus said:

We relied on, and were burned by, multiple players who are no longer playing here this year. Their replacements all represent higher ceilings and, if you believe the reports, current improvements too...

First off I'll be the first to admit that prediction is an inexact and oftentimes fruitless art. If it has any utility outside of placing wagers, it is in the setting of expectations. 

In terms of the players lost versus their replacements and believing practice reports, my experience is practice reports are grain of salt types of things. High ceilings are real and can be good guide, but it's difficult to predict when a player is ready to maximize. There have many players drafted as upperclassman that played as freshman and sophomores while being real liabilities on the field. 

IMO.. Brooks never looked amazing, which I'd call an elite college FB player. I would say he flashed upper tier ability at times and looked stickier in coverage than Jamison. It does appear that Texas has 4 corners who can give starter level reps, which should be a boost to the secondary. Catalon also offers the potential for a big upgrade at safety, pending health and whatnot. 

The Edge position's most concerning element is the weakside. Ovie was horrific at pass rush, but turned into a reasonable edge setter. That's the biggest concern with Burke or whoever plays that position. Replacing DMO with Gbenda is also a potentially big drop off, even with DMO not playing great tactically at times. 

Agreed on WR and TE, nothing really to fret about there.

Assuming the oline becomes good with one more year of development is a big stretch imo. Connor and Majors were two of the worse run blockers in the conference last year. Is it possible they improve, sure. Should we expect it, imo not sure. Even if they improve, how much? Is Campbell at RG the upgrade we expect as a true sophomore? The unit overall was pretty good at pass blocking, which is Majors strength at center. The tackles make this a bit easier to manage. Biggest area of concern is run blocking, which many have hit on here. 

Good bet Ewer's improves, especially given the targets he has and an elite left tackle. Does he become a good college QB or elite? Based on what I saw last season, I believe good is more likely. 

IMO... the rosy outlook of we've improved every area is a little too rosy. This team should have a really good passing offense, but will the running game be good enough for the offense to function against good defenses? The passing defense might improve, but can Texas actually sack the qb and produce turnovers? Can they get off the field on 3rd and 4th down? Will the run defense hold up, with the weakside edge being potentially weaker? The point is this team has unknowns, so do all the other teams in the conference. They don't have enough knowns for me to feel as confident as most of the fanbase appears to feel.

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17 hours ago, Gucci_Suit said:

I don’t remember exactly when it was because I was drunk and cold, but I watched JT drop a pass that essentially hit him in the dick. There was nobody between him and the end zone. 

I love our dudes, and I especially love the  top level pressure that they are putting on themselves this year, but there were a fuck ton of inexcusable drops last year that were at crucial points that changed games.  Can’t happen again. 
 

Edit: everybody has to be better. To win it all, everything has to work. Everything. 

I think it is best to never mention that TCU game again. Terrible offensive performance from everyone involved. Bad QB play, a plethora of dropped passes, incompetent blocking, poor offensive plan, bad play calling, etc 

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10 minutes ago, 46andtoo said:

First off I'll be the first to admit that prediction is an inexact and oftentimes fruitless art. If it has any utility outside of placing wagers, it is in the setting of expectations. 

In terms of the players lost versus their replacements and believing practice reports, my experience is practice reports are grain of salt types of things. High ceilings are real and can be good guide, but it's difficult to predict when a player is ready to maximize. There have many players drafted as upperclassman that played as freshman and sophomores while being real liabilities on the field. 

IMO.. Brooks never looked amazing, which I'd call an elite college FB player. I would say he flashed upper tier ability at times and looked stickier in coverage than Jamison. It does appear that Texas has 4 corners who can give starter level reps, which should be a boost to the secondary. Catalon also offers the potential for a big upgrade at safety, pending health and whatnot. 

The Edge position's most concerning element is the weakside. Ovie was horrific at pass rush, but turned into a reasonable edge setter. That's the biggest concern with Burke or whoever plays that position. Replacing DMO with Gbenda is also a potentially big drop off, even with DMO not playing great tactically at times. 

Agreed on WR and TE, nothing really to fret about there.

Assuming the oline becomes good with one more year of development is a big stretch imo. Connor and Majors were two of the worse run blockers in the conference last year. Is it possible they improve, sure. Should we expect it, imo not sure. Even if they improve, how much? Is Campbell at RG the upgrade we expect as a true sophomore? The unit overall was pretty good at pass blocking, which is Majors strength at center. The tackles make this a bit easier to manage. Biggest area of concern is run blocking, which many have hit on here. 

Good bet Ewer's improves, especially given the targets he has and an elite left tackle. Does he become a good college QB or elite? Based on what I saw last season, I believe good is more likely. 

IMO... the rosy outlook of we've improved every area is a little too rosy. This team should have a really good passing offense, but will the running game be good enough for the offense to function against good defenses? The passing defense might improve, but can Texas actually sack the qb and produce turnovers? Can they get off the field on 3rd and 4th down? Will the run defense hold up, with the weakside edge being potentially weaker? The point is this team as unknowns, so do all the other teams in the conference. They don't have enough knowns for me to feel as confident as most of the fanbase appears to feel.

Depth is much improved in most spots.  Texas has a real chance to be dominant on Special Teams.

Also the secondary has potential to be one of the best in years for Horns...

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1 minute ago, Codaxx said:

I think it is best to never mention that TCU game again. Terrible offensive performance from everyone involved. Bad QB play, a plethora of dropped passes, incompetent blocking, poor offensive plan, bad play calling, etc 

Surly’s 2nd favorite pastime, right after punching itself in the dick, is rehashing horribly painful losses from past seasons. 

So I imagine we will get to reconsider the TCU game 100 different times from 100 different angles in the coming years. 

it would be best to never mention that game again. But you know we can’t help ourselves. 

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6 hours ago, LateAughtsHorn said:

It feels like you're looking at this whole thing in a vaccum. You seem to be basing your entire argument for us sucking this year on Quinn being raw as a true freshman and one player (Bijan) leaving. 

 

I love Bijan, but as amazing as he is, an elite rb is a luxury, not a necessity. I'll take a better overall offensive unit (OL, QB, WR) over any single rb, even one as good as Bijan. 

But if just saying we suck in 2023 because one player left and our young qb struggled is "real football discussion" to you, then continue on. 

 

The poster you quoted never said we are going to suck. That’s just a stupid football board straw man. Pointing out legitimate areas of concern while 90% of this board does their usual August swim in an ocean of practice report koolaid does not equate to “sucking”. 

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14 minutes ago, 46andtoo said:

First off I'll be the first to admit that prediction is an inexact and oftentimes fruitless art. If it has any utility outside of placing wagers, it is in the setting of expectations. 

In terms of the players lost versus their replacements and believing practice reports, my experience is practice reports are grain of salt types of things. High ceilings are real and can be good guide, but it's difficult to predict when a player is ready to maximize. There have many players drafted as upperclassman that played as freshman and sophomores while being real liabilities on the field. 

IMO.. Brooks never looked amazing, which I'd call an elite college FB player. I would say he flashed upper tier ability at times and looked stickier in coverage than Jamison. It does appear that Texas has 4 corners who can give starter level reps, which should be a boost to the secondary. Catalon also offers the potential for a big upgrade at safety, pending health and whatnot. 

The Edge position's most concerning element is the weakside. Ovie was horrific at pass rush, but turned into a reasonable edge setter. That's the biggest concern with Burke or whoever plays that position. Replacing DMO with Gbenda is also a potentially big drop off, even with DMO not playing great tactically at times. 

Agreed on WR and TE, nothing really to fret about there.

Assuming the oline becomes good with one more year of development is a big stretch imo. Connor and Majors were two of the worse run blockers in the conference last year. Is it possible they improve, sure. Should we expect it, imo not sure. Even if they improve, how much? Is Campbell at RG the upgrade we expect as a true sophomore? The unit overall was pretty good at pass blocking, which is Majors strength at center. The tackles make this a bit easier to manage. Biggest area of concern is run blocking, which many have hit on here. 

Good bet Ewer's improves, especially given the targets he has and an elite left tackle. Does he become a good college QB or elite? Based on what I saw last season, I believe good is more likely. 

IMO... the rosy outlook of we've improved every area is a little too rosy. This team should have a really good passing offense, but will the running game be good enough for the offense to function against good defenses? The passing defense might improve, but can Texas actually sack the qb and produce turnovers? Can they get off the field on 3rd and 4th down? Will the run defense hold up, with the weakside edge being potentially weaker? The point is this team has unknowns, so do all the other teams in the conference. They don't have enough knowns for me to feel as confident as most of the fanbase appears to feel.

There is a lot here, but I’ll keep it brief. I think depth is the biggest change and reason for optimism. Buck position is a question, but there are answers. Ovie was solid vs the run, but non-existent as a pass rusher. That isn’t hard to replicate. Finkley can probably fill that role with little downgrade. You also have the big package that PK has used. Burke or other Bucks represent the upside. I think CB is in a better situation, but similar. They have 4 CBs that have starter worthy potential. They also bring different traits. Both situations give the staff flexibility to mix and match based on opponents. 
 

OL will be better this year, baring injury. I think the question there is will the OL be better by the Bama game or will it take a month or 2 

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5 minutes ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

The poster you quoted never said we are going to suck. That’s just a stupid football board straw man. Pointing out legitimate areas of concern while 90% of this board does their usual August swim in an ocean of practice report koolaid does not equate to “sucking”. 

Everyone is drunk on koolaid. Nobody likes the guy who shows up late and sober to the party, asking them to turn the music down.

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31 minutes ago, 46andtoo said:

First off I'll be the first to admit that prediction is an inexact and oftentimes fruitless art. If it has any utility outside of placing wagers, it is in the setting of expectations. 

In terms of the players lost versus their replacements and believing practice reports, my experience is practice reports are grain of salt types of things. High ceilings are real and can be good guide, but it's difficult to predict when a player is ready to maximize. There have many players drafted as upperclassman that played as freshman and sophomores while being real liabilities on the field. 

IMO.. Brooks never looked amazing, which I'd call an elite college FB player. I would say he flashed upper tier ability at times and looked stickier in coverage than Jamison. It does appear that Texas has 4 corners who can give starter level reps, which should be a boost to the secondary. Catalon also offers the potential for a big upgrade at safety, pending health and whatnot. 

The Edge position's most concerning element is the weakside. Ovie was horrific at pass rush, but turned into a reasonable edge setter. That's the biggest concern with Burke or whoever plays that position. Replacing DMO with Gbenda is also a potentially big drop off, even with DMO not playing great tactically at times. 

Agreed on WR and TE, nothing really to fret about there.

Assuming the oline becomes good with one more year of development is a big stretch imo. Connor and Majors were two of the worse run blockers in the conference last year. Is it possible they improve, sure. Should we expect it, imo not sure. Even if they improve, how much? Is Campbell at RG the upgrade we expect as a true sophomore? The unit overall was pretty good at pass blocking, which is Majors strength at center. The tackles make this a bit easier to manage. Biggest area of concern is run blocking, which many have hit on here. 

Good bet Ewer's improves, especially given the targets he has and an elite left tackle. Does he become a good college QB or elite? Based on what I saw last season, I believe good is more likely. 

IMO... the rosy outlook of we've improved every area is a little too rosy. This team should have a really good passing offense, but will the running game be good enough for the offense to function against good defenses? The passing defense might improve, but can Texas actually sack the qb and produce turnovers? Can they get off the field on 3rd and 4th down? Will the run defense hold up, with the weakside edge being potentially weaker? The point is this team has unknowns, so do all the other teams in the conference. They don't have enough knowns for me to feel as confident as most of the fanbase appears to feel.

Wow we still have someone that thinks that the main dependency as to whether this team can achieve its goals is based on the talent on campus and their development. Aside from injury there is only one thing that will cause this team to fail and that is Steve Sarkisian's inability to rise up to the challenge and not get outcoached during a game. Sarkisian always starts of with a great plan since he has had the chance to sit at his desk and analyze it for hours but his main bingo card line is "The Film" because he sure as hell can't see what coaches are doing to him with adjustments during a game and must look at the film after getting outcoached.

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1 minute ago, DanTheHorn said:

Wow we still have someone that thinks that the main dependency as to weather this team can achieve its goals is based on the talent on campus and their development. Aside from injury there is only one thing that will cause this team to fail and that is Steve Sarkisian's inability to rise up to the challenge and not get outcoached during a game. Sarkisian always starts of with a great plan since he has had the chance to sit at his desk and analyze it for hours but his main bingo card line is "The Film" because he sure as hell can't see what coaches are doing to him with adjustments during a game and must look at the film after getting outcoached.

It’s certainly hot in Texas, but I doubt weather will be a significant factor. 

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11 hours ago, TheBryMan81 said:

I went to the Texas Bowl in Houston a few years back when Michael Dickson single handedly kicked Mizzou's ass. The crowd definitely chanted SEC SEC SEC that day, but it was in more of a "They s'posed to be SEC" kind of way

There was a notable SEC SEC SEC at the end of the Sugar Bowl where kicked the shit out of Georgia.

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A couple things, and BO&W, I’m on board with the high expectations that you share. We should kick lots of ass.

At the risk of pissing HenryJames off I’m going to reference PFF. I do feel comfortable with their stats. A little uncertain on the gradings.

Ovie versus Sorrell. Ovie had more pressures, in total and on a per rush basis. He graded higher. Sorrell had more sacks. Ovie was allowed to walk for reason(s). I think both were solid. Overall, I’m not sure Ovie wasn’t the better player, but he’s closer to his upside than Sorrell. Ovie was good enough to keep around unless the coaches felt his replacement can match or exceed his performance. That should give us a good level of comfort for the baseline. The edge took a step up last year. Time for another step.

Brooks versus Jamison. In pass D Jamison graded way higher than Brooks. I was thinking Brooks blew the coverage versus TCU. Pretty sure he was beaten deep versus UW although incomplete. Brooks didn’t make many plays. I’ve read here that Brooks basically took over. Yet versus UW and BU, Jamison played over 100 snaps with Brooks at around 35. Yeah Jamison didn’t get drafted, but he’s been projected to make the 49ers roster. He’s not shitty. And Brooks is young with lots of his career left. We were hurt when Jamison was not available for all of Bama.

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48 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

A couple things, and BO&W, I’m on board with the high expectations that you share. We should kick lots of ass.

At the risk of pissing HenryJames off I’m going to reference PFF. I do feel comfortable with their stats. A little uncertain on the gradings.

Ovie versus Sorrell. Ovie had more pressures, in total and on a per rush basis. He graded higher. Sorrell had more sacks. Ovie was allowed to walk for reason(s). I think both were solid. Overall, I’m not sure Ovie wasn’t the better player, but he’s closer to his upside than Sorrell. Ovie was good enough to keep around unless the coaches felt his replacement can match or exceed his performance. That should give us a good level of comfort for the baseline. The edge took a step up last year. Time for another step.

Brooks versus Jamison. In pass D Jamison graded way higher than Brooks. I was thinking Brooks blew the coverage versus TCU. Pretty sure he was beaten deep versus UW although incomplete. Brooks didn’t make many plays. I’ve read here that Brooks basically took over. Yet versus UW and BU, Jamison played over 100 snaps with Brooks at around 35. Yeah Jamison didn’t get drafted, but he’s been projected to make the 49ers roster. He’s not shitty. And Brooks is young with lots of his career left. We were hurt when Jamison was not available for all of Bama.

Jamison wasn’t shitty, but he’s short, short armed, and undisciplined. Brooks was stickier and provided better run support (still room for improvement there). All as a true freshman.

He’s one of the upside improvements that has actually shown something on the field. 
 

I hope all of our former horns have long and successful NFL careers, even if they didn’t play the best while on the team. 

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1 hour ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

The poster you quoted never said we are going to suck. That’s just a stupid football board straw man. Pointing out legitimate areas of concern while 90% of this board does their usual August swim in an ocean of practice report koolaid does not equate to “sucking”. 

I still fail to see how being optimistic about the roster means one is swimming in Kool Aid. You accused me of making a strawman argument and then make the same strawman argument the original poster was making. 

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1 hour ago, DanTheHorn said:

Wow we still have someone that thinks that the main dependency as to whether this team can achieve its goals is based on the talent on campus and their development. Aside from injury there is only one thing that will cause this team to fail and that is Steve Sarkisian's inability to rise up to the challenge and not get outcoached during a game. Sarkisian always starts of with a great plan since he has had the chance to sit at his desk and analyze it for hours but his main bingo card line is "The Film" because he sure as hell can't see what coaches are doing to him with adjustments during a game and must look at the film after getting outcoached.

Larry Coker, Ed Orgeron, and Jimbo Fisher are all inferior football minds to Sark, imo. If you have a roster that's truly stacked with talent, it masks a lot of coaching problems at the college level. 

I'm hoping the new age of special assistants helps allow Sark to shore up his blind spots. 

Edited by LateAughtsHorn
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9 hours ago, LateAughtsHorn said:

Because understanding that a Freshman quarterback that hadn't seen live action in two years can actually mature means we think the team is unbeatable? Quinn was a mess at times last year, but wtf were you expecting? 

 

8 hours ago, LateAughtsHorn said:

It feels like you're looking at this whole thing in a vaccum. You seem to be basing your entire argument for us sucking this year on Quinn being raw as a true freshman and one player (Bijan) leaving. 

 

I love Bijan, but as amazing as he is, an elite rb is a luxury, not a necessity. I'll take a better overall offensive unit (OL, QB, WR) over any single rb, even one as good as Bijan. 

But if just saying we suck in 2023 because one player left and our young qb struggled is "real football discussion" to you, then continue on. 

 

you seem to either a) be discussing this with someone else in your head you have constructed; or b) failed to consider the contextual basis of the conversation to which i was participating.  the discussion from a couple of pages back was whether or not a ten win season was a reasonable expectation for a floor for the upcoming season.  a number of posters - who apparently believe that posting useless bravado on this message board sufficiently conveys the toughness and vigor of their character - stated that anything less then said 10 win floor was a ridiculous expectation for the upcoming season.

at no point did i say that we would "suck" this year.  you are mischaracterizing what i said in order to project it as an extreme position.  i don't know what your motivation for such a thing would be and i suppose it does not matter.  but there is a significant couloir between saying that we will suck and saying that the typical preseason stupidity from the usual suspects of koolaid doused idiots (who will also be the ones who act hysterically shocked when we drop games like tech and okie state last year) is not based on anything tangible besides hope and ignores some key, specific variables at plays such as losing a game changing running back.

quinn was not a true freshman.  and while i hope he makes a great leap forward from his redshirt freshman year to his sophomore year, the presumption that he will do so that seems to be so popular here is purely speculative based on him finally grooming himself and losing the white trash dildo look.  that's a joke by the way in case you need it spelled out.  my speculation is not based only on bijan and quinn, it's on the offensive line showing no ability to dominate in run blocking, a few games of really poor pass blocking (like the baylor game discussed ad nauseam above), the defensive line's inability to convert pressures into sacks, the defensive backfield's struggles in coverage, and our head coach's long career of underperforming and consistently dropping games he shouldn't...and a consistent inability to make adjustments in-game after the first quarter.

i agree with you that i will take an elite line, qb, and receiver group than an elite rb.  i would take an elite oline over all of those other ones combined.  you are presuming we have those things.  i'm simply not yet based on the evidence.  what i do know is that we did lose an elite rb and a really good rb who both made a difference quite a bit last year.  hopefully those other units do become elite and it mitigates the impact of losing them.  also hoping that some of the super talented guys from the last two recruiting classes can convert it to play on the field.  an anthony hill or a derek williams coming in for and making major impact right away can change shit really fast.

but ultimately, i can't agree that anything fewer than ten wins is an unreasonable expectation for this team. until games like at tcu, at iowa state, at houston, etc... can become presumed wins like they were from 01-09, that's not really sensible.  and i have no reason to believe they are just yet.

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2 hours ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

The poster you quoted never said we are going to suck. That’s just a stupid football board straw man. Pointing out legitimate areas of concern while 90% of this board does their usual August swim in an ocean of practice report koolaid does not equate to “sucking”. 

so refreshing to encounter people with reading comprehension on the football board.

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