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Posted
3 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

I am. Thought you might’ve been speaking of bombing Iran specifically. I think most people in the country favor having a thriving Israel and the US being a staunch supporter of Israel.  I don’t believe actions are taken based on a fringe Christian belief that Israel must be protected for biblical purposes. And it is fringe. Guys like Huckabee are totally marginalized nationally.  This fringe element didn’t factor into decision makers’ thought process with respect to Iran yesterday whatsoever. 

It's not fringe. Holy shit, do you live in a bubble or something?

Guys like Mike Huckabee, the United States ambassador to Israel are marginalized nationally? How does that even make sense? 

 

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Posted
5 minutes ago, F250 said:

It's not fringe. Holy shit, do you live in a bubble or something?

Guys like Mike Huckabee, the United States ambassador to Israel are marginalized nationally? How does that even make sense? 

 

He doesn’t think they’re fringe, he thinks they’re not extremists because he thinks their views are mainstream Christian views. 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, F250 said:

It's not fringe. Holy shit, do you live in a bubble or something?

Guys like Mike Huckabee, the United States ambassador to Israel are marginalized nationally? How does that even make sense? 

 

Of course it’s fringe. Huckabee isn’t a voice that anyone listens to - across the country or more importantly by Trump and his closest advisors. 

Posted
2 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

He doesn’t think they’re fringe, he thinks they’re not extremists because he thinks their views are mainstream Christian views. 

If certain people have a belief that Israel must be protected to fulfill some Revelations prophecy, that’s definitely extremist. I’ll reiterate, it’s not been even mentioned in a sermon or amongst congregations of which I’ve been a part.  That’s televangelist type horseshit. 

Regardless, it’s not a basis for foreign policy action and never has been. 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Of course it’s fringe. Huckabee isn’t a voice that anyone listens to - across the country or more importantly by Trump and his closest advisors. 

Yeah, he is just the United States ambassador to Israel. Why do you think he received that appointment?

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I...don't even have words for that take. Least of which being the notion that most people have a favorable opinion of Israel when empirical data flatly contradicts that.

Youre having reading comprehension issues tonight

Posted

The thing about doing what we did-- you had to be sure. It's like trying to kill the huge spider in your house and you missed, you got one of it's legs, and now you have a pissed spider somewhere in your room and you don't want to sleep. You had one shot and you had to kill it.

If we didn't "totally and fully obliterate" Iran's nuclear program, best scientific minds, and enriched uranium, this was a strategic blunder. You wait until it's in your scope and then shoot or you pass on the shot.

I still think there isn't enough data and detail that's come out to know either way, but the vibe has shifted to it not being a complete and total success. No half measures, rip the bandaid off or don't do anything at all. The toothpaste is out of the tube now, however...

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Posted
Just now, F250 said:

Yeah, he is just the United States ambassador to Israel. Why do you think he received that appointment?

Because he’s a friend to Israel. You think any President, much less Trump, is going to listen to an ambassador on military matters?  That’s laughable. 

Posted
1 minute ago, Rex Kramer said:

If certain people have a belief that Israel must be protected to fulfill some Revelations prophecy, that’s definitely extremist. I’ll reiterate, it’s not been even mentioned in a sermon or amongst congregations of which I’ve been a part.  That’s televangelist type horseshit. 

Regardless, it’s not a basis for foreign policy action and never has been. 

I haven't heard the bolded literally ever.

What I have heard is more or less a feeling of brotherhood or shared appreciation from Christians to Jews via Judeo-Chrisitian aesthetics, but I think that is kind of silly considering the Muslims have the same YAHWEH as the Jews and Christians.

If anything Christians and Muslims have more in common than Christians and Jews and I'll die on that hill.

Posted
1 minute ago, Vegas64 said:

I haven't heard the bolded literally ever.

What I have heard is more or less a feeling of brotherhood or shared appreciation from Christians to Jews via Judeo-Chrisitian aesthetics, but I think that is kind of silly considering the Muslims have the same YAHWEH as the Jews and Christians.

If anything Christians and Muslims have more in common than Christians and Jews and I'll die on that hill.

First sentence, well the board sure seems to think it’s so mainstream it shapes Middle East policy.

Agreed on the brotherhood aspect. That is how I feel.

I think you’re wrong on the commonalities between Islam and Christianity for some specific reasons.  Regardless, the cultural similarities between modern, non-orthodox Israelis and Americans and Europeans is what binds Israel to the West. Much more so than religious doctrine or practices. 

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Do you mean the bald little Nazi or the Youtube conspiracy theorist? Just so we're clear.

Whomever his band of gypsies is, Huckabee ain’t in that group, and he wouldn’t influence any other President in his current capacity. 

Posted

I used to live in Stone Oak many years ago as a young man. My regular commute took me past Cornerstone church where they would hold events dedicated to Israel. Occasionally, the fucking Prime Minister of Israel would show up to speak at the church. 

A totally, ignored church that somehow was able to get Netanyahu to fly from Israel into San Antonio, Texas to give speeches. 

John Hagee, the pastor of Cornerstone and a major influencer on "end of times" theology founded Christians United for Israel (CUFI). Hagee was also some insignificant rando that performed the closing prayer when the U.S. embassy that was moved to Jerusalem. A totally ignored national character. 

 

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/christians-united-for-israel-cufi

Quote

CUFI has been involved in significant political events, including the opening of the U.S. embassy in Jerusalem in 2018 and the U.S. recognition of Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights. During Operation Protective Edge in 2014, CUFI brought pastors from every state to Israel. In 2024, following the October 7, 2023, Hamas attack, CUFI played a role in advancing the 21st Century Peace Through Strength Act, which provided emergency military aid to Israel.

 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

Like just to be clear, this is what people have a major problem with. Several high ranking US government officials have literally come out and outright said this, THIS WEEK. You act like we're making this shit up.

Please provide some evidence of this.

Posted
Just now, Brian Fantana said:

Like just to be clear, this is what people have a major problem with. Several high ranking US government officials have literally come out and outright said this, THIS WEEK. You act like we're making this shit up.

Who did?  Huckabee?  Hegseth who was booted from Trump’s trust tree?  Look, you and others have constantly poked fun at Trump’s appointments. I’ve said nothing on any of these criticisms, because I think the administration is a joke. You certainly feel that way. So why are you taking them seriously now?

Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

I think you’re wrong on the commonalities between Islam and Christianity for some specific reasons.  Regardless, the cultural similarities between modern, non-orthodox Israelis and Americans and Europeans is what binds Israel to the West. Much more so than religious doctrine or practices. 

IF you believe in the Abrahamic God of YAHWEH, the biggest, largest, most fundamental thing that Jesus came to do was save the gentiles. That is what Muslims and Christians have in common being non-Hebrew, non-Chosen people, non-12 Tribes, etc.

Christians and Muslims are more fundamentally the same (e.g. grafted onto the tree of life) than the Jews.

What I just said trumps (no pun intended) every single other modern or cultural metric to compare and contrast the religions and the people.

Again, big "IF" as I said in the first word of this-- if you aren't religious or a believer of an Abrahamic God then it's all moot anyways and you can slice and dice comparisons based on whatever you want.

Edited by Vegas64
Posted
5 minutes ago, F250 said:

I used to live in Stone Oak many years ago as a young man. My regular commute took me past Cornerstone church where they would hold events dedicated to Israel. Occasionally, the fucking Prime Minister of Israel would show up to speak at the church. 

A totally, ignored church that somehow was able to get Netanyahu to fly from Israel into San Antonio, Texas to give speeches. 

John Hagee, the pastor of Cornerstone and a major influencer on "end of times" theology founded Christians United for Israel (CUFI). Hagee was also some insignificant rando that performed the closing prayer when the U.S. embassy that was moved to Jerusalem. A totally ignored national character. 

 

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/christians-united-for-israel-cufi

 

Not only is he extremely controversial, but he’s a televangelist. In the grand scheme of things, he’s extremely insignificant. He certainly has zero sway on any US policy. Try again. 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

Christians and Muslims are more fundamentally the same (e.g. grafted onto the tree of life) than the Jews.

 

Eh, I think Islam and Judaism are a lot more closer. Christianity is the only religion out of the Abrahamic religions that projects divinity on to a man. 

Judaism is Coke, Islam is Pepsi and Christianity is Hill Country Fare grape soda.

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

IF you believe in the Abrahamic God of YAHWEH, the biggest, largest, most fundamental thing that Jesus came to do was save the gentiles. That is what Muslims and Christians have in common being non-Hebrew, non-Chosen people, non-12 Tribes, etc.

Christians and Muslims are more fundamentally the same (e.g. grafted onto the tree of life) than the Jews.

What I just said trumps (no pun intended) every single other modern or cultural metric to compare and contrast the religions and the people.

Again, big "IF" as I said in the first word of this-- if you aren't religious or a believer of an Abrahamic God then it's all moot anyways and you can slice and dice comparisons based on whatever you want.

Oh boy. No, the two are very different. As an aside, you’re ignoring the vast amounts of early Christians that were Jews, and a litany of early Christians that coukd trace their lineage to one of the 12. Culturally, as the world has evolved considerably in the last 2,000 years, they’re miles apart. Culturally, Jews and Christians are very similar. The origins from 2,000 years and 1,400 years ago do not trump those cultural similarities. 

Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I...don't even have words for that take. Least of which being the notion that most people have a favorable opinion of Israel when empirical data flatly contradicts that.

What data are we looking at?  Historically it’s been very favorable but has shifted recently.  You make it sound like it’s been like 90% non favorable which isn’t close to true.   The only time it’s been close to non favorable overall is recently and then it’s more 50/50.  I wouldn’t quite call that empirical data. 

Edited by Hook1997
Posted
1 minute ago, Hook1997 said:

What data are we looking at?  Historically it’s been very favorable but has shifted recently.  You make it sound like it’s been like 90% non favorable which isn’t close to true.   The only time it’s been close to non favorable is recently.  

All true but my statement had nothing to do with a current favorable/unfavorable opinion of Israel.  That is twice tonight he’s mischaractized something I wrote. 

Posted
16 minutes ago, Hook1997 said:

What data are we looking at?  Historically it’s been very favorable but has shifted recently.  You make it sound like it’s been like 90% non favorable which isn’t close to true.   The only time it’s been close to non favorable overall is recently and then it’s more 50/50.  I wouldn’t quite call that empirical data. 

Yeah I meant it has shifted into overall unfavorable. Polling data is empirical data, doesn't matter what conclusion it suggests.

16 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

All true but my statement had nothing to do with a current favorable/unfavorable opinion of Israel.  That is twice tonight he’s mischaractized something I wrote. 

I did not intend to mischaracterize what you said.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Rex Kramer said:

I am. Thought you might’ve been speaking of bombing Iran specifically. I think most people in the country favor having a thriving Israel and the US being a staunch supporter of Israel.  I don’t believe actions are taken based on a fringe Christian belief that Israel must be protected for biblical purposes. And it is fringe. Guys like Huckabee are totally marginalized nationally.  This fringe element didn’t factor into decision makers’ thought process with respect to Iran yesterday whatsoever. 

Nothing says “marginalized nationally” like being the US Ambassador to Israel. Dudes really boxed out of all decision making. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Rex Kramer said:

Guys like Huckabee are totally marginalized nationally.  This fringe element didn’t factor into decision makers’ thought process with respect to Iran yesterday whatsoever. 

This was posted SIX DAYS AGO. 

 

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

This was posted SIX DAYS AGO. 

 

Saw it then. If you think he’s involved in ME policy, I don’t know what to tell you. You don’t think there’s a direct line between Bibi and Trump?

Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

You don’t think there’s a direct line between Bibi and Trump?

Not only do I believe there’s a direct line, I think Bibi is Trump’s sole advisor regarding Iran. 
 

The White House tweeting a Huckabee text is to make it look like Trump is paying attention to an American official, when reality is he’s taking orders from a foreign leader and war criminal. 

Edited by Hank Kingsley
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Posted (edited)

By appointing nothing but bootlickers into his administration, Trump has the ability to tell them what to do AND completely ignore their advice AND contradict what they say whenever he wants. 

Edited by Hank Kingsley
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Posted

I guess I'm more of a neoliberal hawk than I would have assessed myself to be (hard to look in the mirror, I guess) because of the things Trump has done since he's been in office, bombing Iran and destroying (or at least attempting to destroy) their nuclear program once and for all is the only thing I agree with.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, berlinerbaer said:

They have done nothing to prime the American people for an extended conflict. 

It's political and diplomatic malpractice. Bold strategy Cotton. There's no way he can wiggle out of this jam...

2 hours ago, Vegas64 said:

I still think there isn't enough data and detail that's come out to know either way, but the vibe has shifted to it not being a complete and total success. No half measures, rip the bandaid off or don't do anything at all. The toothpaste is out of the tube now, however...

The fact that Trump started talking about regime change makes me think we didn't hit much in the way of their nuclear program. He's absolutely priming the pump for something potentially beyond the bombings, and I've actually been seeing various arguments break out among the right about whether or not they want us in an extended war with Iran.  Hell, a bunch of the right-wing radio/podcaster types are arguing against war with Iran and bitching that Trump campaigned against that, and they are being called "woke" and RINOs by the MAGA faithful.

I have to think Trump isn't dumb enough to actually try and do anything more and get regime change going, because it's clear a fuckload of people on the right don't want it (and the racist ones are bitching that a war with Iran will lead to more Middle Easterners flooding the US).  But on the other hand, he threw it out there, unprompted, and seems irritated that people around him disagree with the concept of regime change. And Trump is coming out publicly and saying he's going to primary Republicans in Congress who don't support him on fighting Iran. I don't know if he does that if he planned on limiting the bombings to those three sites.

And with it coming out that we might not have hit everything, he's going to be embarrassed and looking to do something.

Edit: I know he sent Cruz and Rubio and Graham out there to champion a fight with Iran, but even they weren't going so far as to talk about regime change in a positive "let's go kick the leadership out of Tehran" light.

Edit #2: Next year, there are mid-terms.  Congressional Republicans don't want a protracted war with Iran, and they will be thinking about it. They don't want American sailors dying to protect Saudi oil or the price of gas going up a few bucks. On the other hand, Trump threatened to primary Republicans who oppose him, so shit's going to get real.

Edited by atomheartbevo
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Posted

Department of Homeland Security put this out after the bombings

National Terrorism Advisory System Bulletin - June 22, 2025 | Homeland Security

  • Both hacktivists and Iranian government-affiliated actors routinely target poorly secured US networks and Internet-connected devices for disruptive cyber attacks.
  • US law enforcement has disrupted multiple potentially lethal Iranian-backed plots in the United States since 2020. During this timeframe, the Iranian government has also unsuccessfully targeted critics of its regime who are based in the Homeland for lethal attack.
  • If Iranian leadership were to issue a religious ruling calling for retaliatory violence against specific targets in the Homeland, it could increase the likelihood that a supporter of the Iranian regime is inspired to commit an act of violence in the Homeland.
  • Since the start of the conflict, we have seen media releases by foreign terrorist organizations (FTOs)—
  • including HAMAS, Lebanese Hizballah, the Houthis, and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, among others—some of which have called for violence against US assets and personnel in the Middle East because of Israel’s attack.
  • The conflict could also motivate violent extremists and hate crime perpetrators seeking to attack targets perceived to be Jewish, pro-Israel, or linked to the US government or military in the Homeland.

-----

Man, if we get some Iranian-backed terrorism here in the US, pop some popcorn and watch the finger-pointing begin.

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Posted
I used to live in Stone Oak many years ago as a young man. My regular commute took me past Cornerstone church where they would hold events dedicated to Israel. Occasionally, the fucking Prime Minister of Israel would show up to speak at the church. 
A totally, ignored church that somehow was able to get Netanyahu to fly from Israel into San Antonio, Texas to give speeches. 
John Hagee, the pastor of Cornerstone and a major influencer on "end of times" theology founded Christians United for Israel (CUFI). Hagee was also some insignificant rando that performed the closing prayer when the U.S. embassy that was moved to Jerusalem. A totally ignored national character. 
 
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/christians-united-for-israel-cufi
CUFI has been involved in significant political events, including the opening of the U.S. embassy in Jerusalem in 2018 and the U.S. recognition of Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights. During Operation Protective Edge in 2014, CUFI brought pastors from every state to Israel. In 2024, following the October 7, 2023, Hamas attack, CUFI played a role in advancing the 21st Century Peace Through Strength Act, which provided emergency military aid to Israel.
 

Small world. I too passed Cornerstone while taking my kids to the best early childhood program in San Antonio, at the JCC. Was so happy when they moved it to NW Military.
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Posted
8 hours ago, Rex Kramer said:

I am. Thought you might’ve been speaking of bombing Iran specifically. I think most people in the country favor having a thriving Israel and the US being a staunch supporter of Israel.  I don’t believe actions are taken based on a fringe Christian belief that Israel must be protected for biblical purposes. And it is fringe. Guys like Huckabee are totally marginalized nationally.  This fringe element didn’t factor into decision makers’ thought process with respect to Iran yesterday whatsoever. 

Look into who wrote project 2025

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Rex Kramer said:

First sentence, well the board sure seems to think it’s so mainstream it shapes Middle East policy.

Agreed on the brotherhood aspect. That is how I feel.

I think you’re wrong on the commonalities between Islam and Christianity for some specific reasons.  Regardless, the cultural similarities between modern, non-orthodox Israelis and Americans and Europeans is what binds Israel to the West. Much more so than religious doctrine or practices. 


What? Do you have any Jewish friends?  I went to a Jewish private school for 4 years and have a ton of Jewish friends some of whom are my best friends.  Moderate, westernized Jewish people have very little in common with Americans culturally and they would tell you the same.  

Good thing modern, non-orthodox Jewish people are running Israel and not extremist Orthodox Jews.  I wonder how the orthodox Jewish population feels about Christian Israeli’s.  I bet they are extremely welcoming and don’t spit on them on the streets.  Also, most modern non orthodox Jewish people do not support Netanyahu because even they are not blind to the war criminal that he is.  
 

The only thing the current majority Israeli people and MAGA/Republican Americans have in common are they are both aligned in exploiting Muslims in the region… one for their land and the other for their natural resources.  Not sure if you’ve traveled to Europe, but their current general population does not share your portrayed sentiment towards Israel or even the US.  

 

 

Edited by victory88
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Posted
16 hours ago, Captainant said:

This attack completely topples nuclear nonproliferation. It communicates loud and clear that if you don't have nukes, you're gonna be at the mercy of nuclear states. That's definitely a landmark shift in foreign policy, but I cannot agree that is a net positive thing for people who don't want nuclear war.

lol. I’m old enough to remember a certain tan suit sporting President helping out with a little regime change in Libya. That happened 7 years after they had voluntarily giving up their nuclear aspirations. I guess you just forgot about that?

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Posted
7 hours ago, Rex Kramer said:

Because he’s a friend to Israel. You think any President, much less Trump, is going to listen to an ambassador on military matters?  That’s laughable. 

Look up Steve Witkoff

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Posted

How much would shutting the Strait down affect the US economy?  I know it would shwack our oil-importing allies, but not us it seems.  We are a net exporter.  Do we have a direct economic incentive to send our Navy to try to keep it open?

^^^I'm not advocating pacifism.  Asking questions is all.   

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Parliament said:

How much would shutting the Strait down affect the US economy?  I know it would shwack our oil-importing allies, but not us it seems.  We are a net exporter.  Do we have a direct economic incentive to send our Navy to try to keep it open?

^^^I'm not advocating pacifism.  Asking questions is all.   

 

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Posted
47 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Oh good, we get to read Rex’s takes on Jews and Judaism, this should be fun.

Without fail, my immediate reaction every time I read a Rex post is, "Does he not get enough attention?"

Posted
15 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Without fail, my immediate reaction every time I read a Rex post is, "Does he not get enough attention?"

It’s ok, he met a Jew once, so I’m sure he’s an expert.

Posted
37 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Isn't GRUhorn persona non grata on surly? Why does he stick around ban after ban?

Is there a way to make his posts only visible to him, so he thinks he's still contributing? Maybe throw in a few ghost negs, so he doesn't get suspicious? It's literally the only way that we're ever going to get rid of him. 

At least PRONG HORN had the decency to disappear into the ether immediately following the election, after doing his part to spread blatant and unchecked propaganda and disinformation for years.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Rex Kramer said:

First two are fringe elements that do not control policy and decision. Third is rich considering Jews were there first, long before that magic man existed. Fourth, this isn’t about anyone’s resource grab for oil. Oil will be a factor limited to the world coming down on Iran if they block the Strait commerce. 

It was a simpleton post that sounds cute. 

You are so cabined into your little world of Chamber of Commerce types that you don't know what's really going on in this country.

Christian ZIonism is one of several major factors that makes US elected politicians and their appointees over-deferential to Israel.

It is far less some spirit of Christian charity or brotherhood and more the votes and money of AIPAC, Christian Zionists and some other groups.

 

 

Edited by TwiceHorn
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