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Posted
34 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Meh, they will just own the libs by going to places that have them and clogging up the ER. 

If he can run his own electrical bike store, then he’s not disabled now is he?

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Posted
2 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

I like that this guy calls it the "Republican Medicaid Cuts". Put the blame square on Congressional Rs. 

I think this points up a problem we have as a nation and that is that a lot of MAGAts don't identify as Republicans or Trump as a Republican.  They view both Rs and Ds as part of the establishment that has fucked them over.

They view Trump as outside the establishment.

And until and unless Ds come up with some kind of antidisestablishmentarian candidate, they'll never get MAGAt votes.  Then again, the R candidate that follows Trump probably won't get their votes, either.

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Posted

White peoples willingness to blow up every aspect of their lives due to hating black people, boggles my mind. I know that LBJ knew this:

Quote

“If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.”

but it still just leaves me absolutely agog. I'm a Red Sox fan, and I can't even generate that level of hate for the god damn Yankees. 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think this points up a problem we have as a nation and that is that a lot of MAGAts don't identify as Republicans or Trump as a Republican.  They view both Rs and Ds as part of the establishment that has fucked them over.

They view Trump as outside the establishment.

And until and unless Ds come up with some kind of antidisestablishmentarian candidate, they'll never get MAGAt votes.  Then again, the R candidate that follows Trump probably won't get their votes, either.

This also portends a huge fucking problem for the GOP once he's gone.  It's how this country could swing from Trump to a Mamdani in like 1 or 2 election cycles. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Hookah Horns said:

I hope the era of the Dems running a bunch of "centrist" jagoffs who are bought and paid for by various lobbies is coming to an end. This country needs legislators who are passionate about issues that affect us all. 

Look, we can argue about the centrism. But until the party is willing to deal with a number of it's internal structural issues, I don't think the middle vs. left thing is all that important versus having a personality.

DC is under occupation right now, and Eleanor Holmes Norton is going to run again despite not being mobile and clearly having mental decline and being 88.  Jefferies should just refuse to seat her on a committee and tell the DC voters its time to inject new blood.  The Democratic part is a deck with rotten supports. Until you rebuild the deck beams, it's closed until further notice. The type of party on that deck, whether its BBQ, Cookout, Carne Asada, Wine tasting, whatever, is totally irrelevant. It's in no position to host right now. 

Edited by Bateshorn
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Posted
1 hour ago, Bateshorn said:

Look, we can argue about the centrism. But until the party is willing to deal with a number of it's internal structural issues, I don't think the middle vs. left thing is all that important versus having a personality.

DC is under occupation right now, and Eleanor Holmes Norton is going to run again despite not being mobile and clearly having mental decline and being 88.  Jefferies should just refuse to seat her on a committee and tell the DC voters its time to inject new blood.  The Democratic part is a deck with rotten supports. Until you rebuild the deck beams, it's closed until further notice. The type of party on that deck, whether its BBQ, Cookout, Carne Asada, Wine tasting, whatever, is totally irrelevant. It's in no position to host right now. 

lol, lmao even.

Jeffries is the most spineless piece of shit in the House right now in the caucus, nothing is going to change with the party in the House until he is primaried.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Bateshorn said:

This also portends a huge fucking problem for the GOP once he's gone.  It's how this country could swing from Trump to a Mamdani in like 1 or 2 election cycles. 

And that's why the race is on to completely fuck over future elections in any way, shape or form.

If it takes masked men holding weapons to keep people from voting, gerrymandering so outrageous that the Supremes give it a thumbs up, or some other method(s) so heinous or not conjured up yet to sway an election, it will happen.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think this points up a problem we have as a nation and that is that a lot of MAGAts don't identify as Republicans or Trump as a Republican.  They view both Rs and Ds as part of the establishment that has fucked them over.

They view Trump as outside the establishment.

Lulz. Gaslighting again.

What's going down in Team USA is the Reagan-Falwell-Moral Majority GQP wet dream! 

Reagan too was viewed as "outside the establishment" by being a movie star turned politician. Like Trump, he was a "Democrat" turned Republican. He rallied those conservatives, frat boys, and low education, low income, rural types who felt the GQP was not fascist enough, racist enough, Christian enough, and patriotic enough. 

There is a clear through line from Reagan/Moral Majority to Bush 2/Tea Party to Trump/MAGA.

The end goal was a Medieval Anti-Science Fascist America ruled by White Christian and billionaires. 

Quit making excuses for the GQP. This is their American dream.

Edited by BevoAbyss
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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, BevoAbyss said:

Lulz. Gaslighting again.

What's going down in Team USA is the Reagan-Falwell-Moral Majority GQP wet dream! 

Reagan too was viewed as "outside the establishment" by being a movie star turned politician. Like Trump, he was a "Democrat" turned Republican. He rallied those conservatives, frat boys, and low education, low income, rural types who felt the GQP was not fascist enough, racist enough, Christian enough, and patriotic enough. 

There is a clear through line from Reagan/Moral Majority to Bush 2/Tea Party to Trump/MAGA.

The end goal was a Medieval Anti-Science Fascist America ruled by White Christian and billionaires. 

Quit making excuses for the GQP. This is their American dream.

Oh fuck off, the above is completely non-responsive to what I posted.

Do you ever do anything besides repeat yourself?

Gaslighting my ass.  I rarely neg but you got one.

I was alive and of voting age during the Reagan revolution, and while yes there are some things that trace a direct line, there were about zero of the cultish aspects of the Trump administration present in that era.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Posted

Elaborating on the above, because it's possibly worthy of discussing, maybe moreso in the Democratic party thread.

But when Reagan was elected, he was seen as more progressive than Nixon for example, although some considered him a Goldwater Republican.  The latter may be more correct through the lens of history.

But it's important to note, I think, that the American people at that point didn't feel broadly let down by their government.

The 70s sucked shit economically and Carter got saddled with a lot of that, part rightly and part wrongly.

But there absolutely was not the lower classes feeling as completely abandoned as they do now, and by #bothsides, as bozo relentlessly reminds us.  We were still at the tail end of the post-war boom and petrodollar economics were just starting to assert themselves as a major issue.

Yes, Reagan had a lot to do with letting them further down (trickle down) and with engendering distrust of government, but it wasn't the thing that it is today that has people so wildly voting against their own interest.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

image.jpeg.2ab09f7ccabd98301b89ee045cb1854a.jpeg

A later thing, I'm quite sure.  You're conflating subsequent idealization of Reagan with how it really was at the time.

The point, again, being that Americans, particularly lower class ones, did not feel so completely abandoned and misused by the government during the Reagan era. 

I think the Clinton administration probably started to solidify working class not feeling well-served by the government.  Also Obama, but in no small part because he couldn't get anything done other than Obamacare.  And I'm not necessarily blaming either one, but corporate control of  #bothsides took pretty serious hold post-Reagan.

So there weren't cultists calling past Republicans RINOs and shitting on members of their own party who didn't tow the line.

The free shit army didn't vote for Reagan.  They did for Trump.

Also, don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Reagan here.  But there are vast differences between America now and America then, including among the electorate.  He was popular, yes, but for conventional reasons, not the same kind of thing as Trump.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Posted
2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Oh fuck off, the above is completely non-responsive to what I posted.

Do you ever do anything besides repeat yourself?

Gaslighting my ass.  I rarely neg but you got one.

I was alive and of voting age during the Reagan revolution, and while yes there are some things that trace a direct line, there were about zero of the cultish aspects of the Trump administration present in that era.

He's the worst kind of ally.  Ignore him.  Same shit, different day.

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Posted
25 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

A later thing, I'm quite sure.  You're conflating subsequent idealization of Reagan with how it really was at the time.

The point, again, being that Americans, particularly lower class ones, did not feel so completely abandoned and misused by the government during the Reagan era. 

I think the Clinton administration probably started to solidify working class not feeling well-served by the government.  Also Obama, but in no small part because he couldn't get anything done other than Obamacare.  And I'm not necessarily blaming either one, but corporate control of  #bothsides took pretty serious hold post-Reagan.

So there weren't cultists calling past Republicans RINOs and shitting on members of their own party who didn't tow the line.

The free shit army didn't vote for Reagan.  They did for Trump.

Also, don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Reagan here.  But there are vast differences between America now and America then, including among the electorate.  He was popular, yes, but for conventional reasons, not the same kind of thing as Trump.

At the time, the love of that moron sure felt cultish to me. And the Teflon was similar, as was the wife known for being whorish.

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Posted
On 9/5/2025 at 6:46 AM, YChang said:

I get the sentiment, but something tells me your Central Valley farmers are just as Trumpy as the Deep South farmers. Moral of the story… on average… Fuck most farmers and ranchers.

Those fucks sent Devin Nunes and Kevin McCarthy to DC.  Fuck those putos

On 9/7/2025 at 8:00 PM, Chopper said:

two cunts from kentucky want their vote back

 

There's a lot of horse racing here in San Diego.  A few years ago, the immigration man raided San Luis Rey Downs, which is a licensed training track...meaning that all times taken there for workouts are "official" as far as the state horse racing board is concerned. 

Anyway, they only hauled away two illegals, both Irish, one of which had knocked up the woman that cuts my  hair.  the daughter she had is a sweet kid, but ugh. 

 

Interesting note, maybe.  The CA horse racing board has "commissioners", appointed by the Governor.  Bo Derek was a commissioner for quite a while. 10 years or so. 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

Anyway, they only hauled away two illegals, both Irish, one of which had knocked up the woman that cuts my  hair.  the daughter she had is a sweet kid, but ugh. 

It’s awful, but Shanty Micks from the racetrack are only “white people” on a technicality 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Posted
6 hours ago, Hookah Horns said:

I hope the era of the Dems running a bunch of "centrist" jagoffs who are bought and paid for by various lobbies is coming to an end. This country needs legislators who are passionate about issues that affect us all. 

The problem is congress is full of those types you describe.  I mean they need more far left or whatever you want to call them - the ones that are actually passionate about this hostile takeover of our govt.  Say what you want about MTG - and I certainly have - but at least she really believes in her batshit crazy policies.  

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Posted (edited)

RE: Reagan and MAGA-Trump

While I appreciate the PBS traditionalist history provided by Twice, it left out some key aspects of the Reagan era, perhaps because it does not fit into his worldview or selective memory banks.

1.  Reagan Worshipped Like a God >>> Trump Worshipped Like a God

I was at the University of Texas in 1984.  Reagan was a freaking God to the frat boys, “Young Conservatives,” and Libertarians. Across America, Republicans worshipped him like a God as well. Sure seemed cult-like to me; not as bad as MAGA and Trump, but the worship was there. Still is. Hell, some Surly posters still wax poetic about him. 

Reagan was swept into office in a winning brew of Hollywood glam (albeit B or C level), rapidly escalating evangelicalism, a stagnant economy, supposed free market ideology, the hysteria of propagandized patriotism of the Cold War, all anchored by a yearning for the “good ole days.” 

2. "It’s Morning Again in America"  >>> Make America Great Again.

— In the wake of the hippies of the 60s and the 1970s inflation and tepid Carter administration, Reagan was all about Making America Great Again. After all, his famous TV ad said “It’s Morning Again in America”!  Largely celebrating small town white America, along with marriage, white picket fences, big American flags, etc. An obvious, spot-on foundation of MAGA.  

3. From Hollywood Celebrity Glam >>> World Wrestling Celebrity Glam

Don’t scoff. That B or C-level Reagan celebrity "glam” sets the stage ... for D-F level Bush the baseball team owner ... to Z-level celebrity glam of Trump, in which celebs, glitz, and $$$ wow the rurals and less educated. From Hollywood B level star to loser Baseball Team to World Wrestling. What a crater.

4. Reagan + Moral Majority  >>> MAGA crusades and against science and abortion.

Reagan openly courted the Moral Majority and Jerry Falwell, thus marrying the Republican Party to religion, specifically Evangelicals, Fundamentalists, and Creationists. The anti-science, anti-evolution, anti-abortion crusades had a political home. A clear precursor to MAGA and the overturing of Roe v Wade.

5. Breaking Down Wall Between Church-State

— Reagan got the “Equal Access” bill passed that permitted students to have religious gatherings in school. In the name of “freedom,” of course. Thus, starting the erosion of the wall between church and state, which was accelerated by W’s “faith-based initiatives” and MAGA White Christian Nationalist regime. Again, Reagan is a clear precursor.

6. Astrology Readings >>> Complete MAGA Idiocy Into the White House

Nancy and Ronnie had regular astrology readings in the White House, which caused a media outcry for fears of astrologers advising Reagan on Cold War matters. Yet, more anti-science and idiocy. Eventually, leads to MAGA and Q and Trump’s idiotic birther conspiracy.

7. DEA and Mass Incarceration >>>  ICE Concentration Camps

Reagan ramped up Nixon’s Drug War massively, leading to the sprawling industrial prison complex. Targeting mostly people of color and inner cities, before spreading across nation. Busting down doors, No Knock Raids, masked agents, etc. Again, a clear precedent for ICE, mass raids, “detention center” concentration camps, militarization of America, etc. 

— Republicans love throwing people in jail, especially people of color. With MAGA, they will get around to anti-MAGA artists, writers, intellectuals, TV talk show hosts, etc.

8. Teflon Tough Guy God

Reagan invaded Grenada, had the Iran-Contra scandal of outright lies, the grant rigging in HUD, fired numerous EPA officials, the Savings and Loan collapse, various scandals and corruption in the Defense Department, and so on. Did not matter. He was a God. Seems cult-like to me.

In the end, Reagan was a Teflon tough guy God, worshipped by tens of millions of Americans and Evangelical Christians… not unlike you know who. 

 

 

Edited by BevoAbyss
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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, BevoAbyss said:

RE: Reagan and MAGA-Trump

While I appreciate the PBS traditionalist history provided by Twice, it left out some key aspects of Reagan era, perhaps because it does not fit into his worldview or selective memory banks.

1.  Reagan Worshipped Like a God >>> Trump Worshipped Like a God

I was at the University of Texas in 1984.  Reagan was a freaking God to the frat boys, “Young Conservatives,” and Libertarians. Across America, Republicans worshipped him like a God as well. Sure seemed cult-like to me; not as bad as MAGA and Trump, but the worship was there. Still is. Hell, some Surly posters still wax poetic about him. 

Reagan was swept into office in a winning brew of Hollywood glam (albeit B or C level), rapidly escalating evangelicalism, a stagnant economy, supposed free market ideology, the hysteria of propagandized patriotism of the Cold War, all anchored by a yearning for the “good ole days.” 

2. "It’s Morning in America Again"  >>> Make America Great Again.

— In the wake of the 1970s inflation and tepid Carter administration, Reagan was all about Making America Great Again. After all, his famous TV ad said “It’s Morning Again in America”!  Largely celebrating small town white America, along with marriage, white picket fences, big American flags, etc. An obvious, spot-on foundation of MAGA.  

3. From Hollywood Celebrity Glam >>> World Wrestling Celebrity Glam

Don’t scoff. That B or C-level Reagan celebrity "glam” sets the stage ... for D-F level Bush the baseball team owner ... to Z-level celebrity glam of Trump, in which celebs, glitz, and $$$ wow the rurals and less educated. From Hollywood B level star to loser Baseball Team to World Wrestling. What a crater.

4. Reagan + Moral Majority  >>> MAGA crusades and against science and abortion.

Reagan openly courted the Moral Majority and Jerry Falwell, thus marrying the Republican Party to religion, specifically Evangelicals, Fundamentalists, and Creationists. The anti-science, anti-evolution, anti-abortion crusades had a political home. A clear precursor to MAGA and the overturing of Roe v Wade.

5. Breaking Down Wall Between Church-State

— Reagan got the “Equal Access” bill passed that permitted students to have religious gatherings in school. In the name of “freedom,” of course. Thus, starting the erosion of the wall between church and state, which was accelerated by W’s “faith-based initiatives” and MAGA White Christian Nationalist regime. Again, Reagan is a clear precursor.

6. Astrology Readings >>> Complete MAGA Idiocy Into the White House

Nancy and Ronnie have regular astrology readings in the White House, which caused a media outcry for fears of astrologers advising Reagan on Cold War matters. Yet, more anti-science and idiocy. Eventually, leads to MAGA and Q and Trump’s idiotic birther conspiracy.

7. DEA and Mass Incarceration >>>  ICE Concentration Camps

Reagan ramped up Nixon’s Drug War massively, leading to the sprawling industrial prison complex. Targeting mostly people of color and inner cities, before spreading across nation. Busting down doors, No Knock Raids, masked agents, etc. Again, a clear precedent for ICE, mas raids, “detention center” concentration camps, militarization of America, etc. 

— Republicans love throwing people in jail, especially people of color.

8. Teflon Tough Guy God

Reagan invaded Grenada, had the Iran-Contra scandal of outright lies, the grant rigging in HUD, fired numerous EPA officials, the Savings and Loan collapse, various scandals and corruption in Defense Department, and so on. 

In the end, Reagan was a Teflon tough guy God, worshipped by tens of millions of Americans and Evangelical Christians… not unlike you know who. 

 

 

It's lived experience dude.

For all those little anecdotes, Reagan Republicans were nothing like MAGAts.  Nothing at all. 

As a frat boy in 1984 I can say you're wrong.  Frat boys didn't give a shit about politics or really Reagan, nothing like this performative shit.  The President of the Young Republicans or whatever was a fucking geek.  Yeah sure, we mostly voted Republican if we could detach ourselves from the keg or the pussy long enough.

Hell, back then, before the Republican takeover of Texas, a bunch of em were sons of powerful Texas Democrats.

They sure as fuck didn't worship Reagan like Trumpists do.

The most overtly political act was knocking down the shanty every couple of weeks, and that was more for shits n giggles than some kind of conservative tour de force.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

For all those little anecdotes

Sorry Twice: Nothing telegraphs privileged frat boy ... like saying my list is just "little anecdotes"

-- Go tell that to the millions (mostly people of color) incarcerated by Reagan's ramped up Drug War ..... with all the raids that ignored the Bill of Rights and laid the foundation for ICE

-- Go tell that to women who can't get an abortion because of the Reagan-Christian war on abortion and reproductive rights. Women fleeing to get abortions, bleeding out in hospital parking lots. Forced to give birth. Anecdotes?

-- and so on. The list is clear. You refuted nothing. Just apologia for your fellow frat boys Republican worldview

Reagan laid the foundation for MAGA-Trump. Ignoring clear facts and irrefutable arguments is the clear hallmark of Conservatives, Republicans .... and MAGA.

Go look in the mirror, dude.

Adios.

Edited by BevoAbyss
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Posted
3 minutes ago, BevoAbyss said:

Sorry Twice: Nothing telegraphs privileged frat boy ... like saying my list is just "little anecdotes"

-- Go tell that to the millions (mostly people of color) incarcerated by Reagan's ramped up Drug War ..... with all the raids that ignored the Bill of Rights and laid the foundation for ICE

-- Go tell that to women who can't get an abortion because of the Reagan-Christian war on abortion and reproductive rights. Women fleeing to get abortions, bleeding out in hospital parking lots. forced to give birth. Anecdotes?

-- and so on. The list is clear. You refuted nothing. Just apologia for your fellow frat boys Republican worldview

Reagan laid the foundation for MAGA-Trump. Ignoring clear facts and irrefutable arguments is the clear hallmark of Conservatives, Republicans .... and MAGA.

Go look in the mirror, dude.

Adios.

I don't deny that some led to where we are now.  I said that from the very outset.

I do strenuously deny that "Reagan worship" was anything like Trump worship.  Which was my point from the outset, you monomaniac.

 

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Posted
18 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Comparing Reagan to Trump just legitimizes all the bullshit Trump is doing as 'politics', it's not.  Be better. 

Exactly.  Reagan observed most norms and his popularity was within norms.  Even the shit he got away with was "normal."

 

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Posted
52 minutes ago, BevoAbyss said:

RE: Reagan and MAGA-Trump

While I appreciate the PBS traditionalist history provided by Twice, it left out some key aspects of the Reagan era, perhaps because it does not fit into his worldview or selective memory banks.

1.  Reagan Worshipped Like a God >>> Trump Worshipped Like a God

I was at the University of Texas in 1984.  Reagan was a freaking God to the frat boys, “Young Conservatives,” and Libertarians. Across America, Republicans worshipped him like a God as well. Sure seemed cult-like to me; not as bad as MAGA and Trump, but the worship was there. Still is. Hell, some Surly posters still wax poetic about him. 

Reagan was swept into office in a winning brew of Hollywood glam (albeit B or C level), rapidly escalating evangelicalism, a stagnant economy, supposed free market ideology, the hysteria of propagandized patriotism of the Cold War, all anchored by a yearning for the “good ole days.” 

2. "It’s Morning Again in America"  >>> Make America Great Again.

— In the wake of the hippies of the 60s and the 1970s inflation and tepid Carter administration, Reagan was all about Making America Great Again. After all, his famous TV ad said “It’s Morning Again in America”!  Largely celebrating small town white America, along with marriage, white picket fences, big American flags, etc. An obvious, spot-on foundation of MAGA.  

3. From Hollywood Celebrity Glam >>> World Wrestling Celebrity Glam

Don’t scoff. That B or C-level Reagan celebrity "glam” sets the stage ... for D-F level Bush the baseball team owner ... to Z-level celebrity glam of Trump, in which celebs, glitz, and $$$ wow the rurals and less educated. From Hollywood B level star to loser Baseball Team to World Wrestling. What a crater.

4. Reagan + Moral Majority  >>> MAGA crusades and against science and abortion.

Reagan openly courted the Moral Majority and Jerry Falwell, thus marrying the Republican Party to religion, specifically Evangelicals, Fundamentalists, and Creationists. The anti-science, anti-evolution, anti-abortion crusades had a political home. A clear precursor to MAGA and the overturing of Roe v Wade.

5. Breaking Down Wall Between Church-State

— Reagan got the “Equal Access” bill passed that permitted students to have religious gatherings in school. In the name of “freedom,” of course. Thus, starting the erosion of the wall between church and state, which was accelerated by W’s “faith-based initiatives” and MAGA White Christian Nationalist regime. Again, Reagan is a clear precursor.

6. Astrology Readings >>> Complete MAGA Idiocy Into the White House

Nancy and Ronnie had regular astrology readings in the White House, which caused a media outcry for fears of astrologers advising Reagan on Cold War matters. Yet, more anti-science and idiocy. Eventually, leads to MAGA and Q and Trump’s idiotic birther conspiracy.

7. DEA and Mass Incarceration >>>  ICE Concentration Camps

Reagan ramped up Nixon’s Drug War massively, leading to the sprawling industrial prison complex. Targeting mostly people of color and inner cities, before spreading across nation. Busting down doors, No Knock Raids, masked agents, etc. Again, a clear precedent for ICE, mass raids, “detention center” concentration camps, militarization of America, etc. 

— Republicans love throwing people in jail, especially people of color. With MAGA, they will get around to anti-MAGA artists, writers, intellectuals, TV talk show hosts, etc.

8. Teflon Tough Guy God

Reagan invaded Grenada, had the Iran-Contra scandal of outright lies, the grant rigging in HUD, fired numerous EPA officials, the Savings and Loan collapse, various scandals and corruption in the Defense Department, and so on. Did not matter. He was a God. Seems cult-like to me.

In the end, Reagan was a Teflon tough guy God, worshipped by tens of millions of Americans and Evangelical Christians… not unlike you know who. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Comparing Reagan to Trump just legitimizes all the bullshit Trump is doing as 'politics', it's not.  Be better. 

Reagan was legitimate only to those who were willing to ignore the deal with Iran to hold US hostages, to ignore selling guns to terrorists in South America in order to fund the crack epidemic, and willing to accept an executive with dementia.

Republicans have been playing a long game to subvert our Republic. Focusing only on this chapter of their game isn’t being better, it is being myopic. The goal of burning this government to the ground is the culmination of Reagan rhetoric.

Edited by Willfully Horn
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Posted
1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Exactly.  Reagan observed most norms and his popularity was within norms.  Even the shit he got away with was "normal."

 

 

42 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Reagan was legitimate only to those who were willing to ignore the deal with Iran to hold US hostages, to ignore selling guns to terrorists in South America in order to fund the crack epidemic, and willing to accept an executive with dementia.

Republicans have been playing a long game to subvert our Republic. Focusing only on this chapter of their game isn’t being better, it is being myopic. The goal of burning this government to the ground is the culmination of Reagan rhetoric.

See above.  GTFO if you think Reagan would do even 10% of Trump’s BS - even if he was given the chance that’s a hell no.  

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Posted
11 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

 

See above.  GTFO if you think Reagan would do even 10% of Trump’s BS - even if he was given the chance that’s a hell no.  

That is not my contention. I am saying there is a clear connection between Reagan’s statement that the most terrifying words are from the government, and that I am here to help, through Norquist’s, “I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub,” to the desire to “burn it all down.” I will add that congressional Republican lockstep was a thing prior to trump.

Reagan was a dementia addled criminal for whom Republicans covered, unlike their stance towards Nixon. To me, that was the genesis of the party of traitors.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, BevoAbyss said:

What's going down in Team USA is the Reagan-Falwell-Moral Majority GQP wet dream! 

Reagan too was viewed as "outside the establishment" by being a movie star turned politician. Like Trump, he was a "Democrat" turned Republican. He rallied those conservatives, frat boys, and low education, low income, rural types who felt the GQP was not fascist enough, racist enough, Christian enough, and patriotic enough. 

There is a clear through line from Reagan/Moral Majority to Bush 2/Tea Party to Trump/MAGA.

The end goal was a Medieval Anti-Science Fascist America ruled by White Christian and billionaires. 

Quit making excuses for the GQP. This is their American dream.

I completely agree. Saying Reagan wasn't aiming at this is irrelevant; his party was. He was a useful avuncular idiot on a horse for the rubes to cheer while the real show was backstage.

12 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Elaborating on the above, because it's possibly worthy of discussing, maybe moreso in the Democratic party thread.

But when Reagan was elected, he was seen as more progressive than Nixon for example, although some considered him a Goldwater Republican.  The latter may be more correct through the lens of history.

But it's important to note, I think, that the American people at that point didn't feel broadly let down by their government.

The 70s sucked shit economically and Carter got saddled with a lot of that, part rightly and part wrongly.

But there absolutely was not the lower classes feeling as completely abandoned as they do now, and by #bothsides, as bozo relentlessly reminds us.  We were still at the tail end of the post-war boom and petrodollar economics were just starting to assert themselves as a major issue.

Yes, Reagan had a lot to do with letting them further down (trickle down) and with engendering distrust of government, but it wasn't the thing that it is today that has people so wildly voting against their own interest.

My friend, we lived in the same time but see those times profoundly differently. Considering Reagan a progressive in any way astounds me. I don't recall that opinion.

He was anti-government. He spoke in terms (literally) of welfare queens stealing all our money, he spoke of abuse of food stamps, he said the Dems had gone so far left that they had left the country, trickle down was all about making sure the rich remained rich or got richer, he was a big part in the creation of the permanent hate engine.

He was despicable from the start. But people love to be fed hate by somebody they love.

 

10 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Comparing Reagan to Trump just legitimizes all the bullshit Trump is doing as 'politics', it's not.  Be better. 

So true. Twice Horn is right that this really belongs on the Dem Party thread of Futility. It's not politics; it's war on our republic.

 

9 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't deny that some led to where we are now.  I said that from the very outset.

I do strenuously deny that "Reagan worship" was anything like Trump worship.  Which was my point from the outset, you monomaniac.

 

See above. People elected a guy who worked against them. He spoke against unions, government's ability to help, he blamed victims such as the poor. As stated above, he thought he was just being the good guy, but he enabled all the villains that have beset this nation since Nixon (Roger Stone, Lee Atwater, et al.)

 

8 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

 

See above.  GTFO if you think Reagan would do even 10% of Trump’s BS - even if he was given the chance that’s a hell no.  

See above; he didn't have to be the instrument to do these deeds. Others were already aiming at this and using him.

 

8 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

That is not my contention. I am saying there is a clear connection between Reagan’s statement that the most terrifying words are from the government, and that I am here to help, through Norquist’s, “I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub,” to the desire to “burn it all down.” I will add that congressional Republican lockstep was a thing prior to trump.

Reagan was a dementia addled criminal for whom Republicans covered, unlike their stance towards Nixon. To me, that was the genesis of the party of traitors.

Profoundly agree. 

Too many people cannot release Reagan's lovable persona. He must be kept separate from the traitorous aims he enabled and lent advocacy to.

Edited by RomaVicta
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Comparing Reagan to Trump just legitimizes all the bullshit Trump is doing as 'politics', it's not.  Be better. 

Ok but 

1) Reagan was fucking terrible in multiple ways, some of which he shares with Trump, like magical thinking about the debt and 

2) Bush II was even worse, because not only did he destroy our last best chance at fiscal sanity he put us on an irreversible course towards the end of empire by getting us into our own version(s) of of the Boer War. 
 

Trump is a worse human being and more brazenly corrupt and abusifr of the powers of his office. But I’m not going to pretend there were good old days when the GOP meant what it said about fiscal discipline or good government, because except for a short break from 99-92, they have been at this since 1980.

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Posted
4 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

No dude come the fuck on.

Regardless, my point was not to defend Reagan, but to point out that Reagan's following was not cultlike as is Trump's.  And specifically that there are a lot of Trump voters that specifically disclaim being Republican and probably never voted, if at all, Republican.

And, as you often note, most of these people feel betrayed by #bothsides and for some goddamn reason think Trump is really any different from the money interests that fucked them over.

Posted
1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

and for some goddamn reason think Trump is really any different from the money interests that fucked them over.

Because they are suckers.

Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

And don't even try to compare Reagan to Trump as far as norms go.

Come the fuck on indeed.

Reagan didn’t act like that, but Trump is very continuous with Reagan. 
Im not sure if you were one of the Reagan Republicans who believed in all that nonsense and are still trying to rationalize your support, but there’s a straight line between the two.
Reagan was just far more palatable and his administration was held much more in check by congress, which in those days was elected in mostly competitive districts by communities of interest.*
 

 

 

or “communities of interest,” as @Ag with kids likes to call real places and people with things in common, as opposed to preordained partisan outcomes. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Posted

Reagan didn't say elected representatives running the government were the problem, he said government was the problem, and when our government prohibited supplying arms to the Contras, he did it anyway. Kinda hard to understate how damaging that is to the rule of law when it's committed by a political leader who remained adored by his supporters even after it was uncovered. 

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Posted
28 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Reagan didn't say elected representatives running the government were the problem, he said government was the problem, and when our government prohibited supplying arms to the Contras, he did it anyway. Kinda hard to understate how damaging that is to the rule of law when it's committed by a political leader who remained adored by his supporters even after it was uncovered. 

Newlywed Oliver North was heroized on the covers of Time and Newsweek. Many people taped the pictures to the rear windows of their cars.

Having observed the Watergate hearings and protests against government abuse of power fewer than ten years prior, I expected angry mobs in response to North's notion of a neat idea called Iran-Contra and announcing that he and the CIA head wanted to establish a fully-funded, off-the-shelf covert operations team that reported only to the president and unknown to all others. Nope, Reagan's glow and the rise of conservatism based on hating libs saved his ass.

He and all the high-up criminals got away with it, mostly by HW Bush's pardons on Christmas Eve before he left office. Prosecutor Walsh was getting ready to start the trials.

image.gif.69b0d7d4f86c172ea7a4682b0b8a0dce.gif

 

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Posted
19 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

Jefferies should just refuse to seat her on a committee and tell the DC voters its time to inject new blood.

I get it that not being on committees greatly reduces the grift opportunities and generally lowers the status of a Rep, but what percentage of the voting public knows what committees their rep sits on?  I don't think taking away committees means jack shit in the big picture of bringing in new blood.

Posted
3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

And don't even try to compare Reagan to Trump as far as norms go.

Do you think absolutely exploding the national debt, without open warfare, was normal? It is normal to fuck over US embassy personnel?

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