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Posted (edited)

I would also imagine that there is no telling how far downstream victims may have been taken. Grisly days ahead for some unsuspecting people.

Edited by RomaVicta
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Posted

Yeah....I expect that a lot of the bodies are never going to be found.  And others, or parts of others, will be found months or years from now at random times and places.  Just gruesome, shitty stuff.  Nature is a mean bitch, and she gives no fucks.

Posted

Seeing quite a number of GoFundMe's set up 'for the families of the Camp Mystic tragedy.' Uh huh.

Some of them may be legit. Personally, I wouldn't send money to anyone via GoFraudme.
 

 

 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

Seeing quite a number of GoFundMe's set up 'for the families of the Camp Mystic tragedy.' Uh huh.

Some of them may be legit. Personally, I wouldn't send money to anyone via GoFraudme.

Yeah, we're in an age full of scams, so it's appropriate to be skeptical of a lot of disaster relief funds. 

I'll figure out how to donate in other ways, but I'm making it a habit to add a few bucks on the HEB bill every time I check out, when I've usually blown over those charitable contributions in the past.  I'm confident that money (hopefully accumulating by thousands of others statewide doing the same at their HEBs) will be put to good use.

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Posted
38 minutes ago, C-Man said:

WaPo: Camp Mystic’s leader got a ‘life threatening’ flood alert. They evacuated an hour later.

This is worth your 15 mins or so: https://www.msn.com/en-us/public-safety-and-emergencies/health-and-safety-alerts/camp-mystic-s-leader-got-a-life-threatening-flood-alert-they-evacuated-an-hour-later/ar-AA1IzzCj

Good article. If, it is in fact, true, it doesn't bode well for Camp Mystic. If Eastland got the 1am evacuation text, (and didn't begin to evacuate for an hour) he probably got the 1pm text from the previous day. I'm no @South Austin, but it doesn't look like the business will do well in civil suits. 

Clement, whose daughter is a counselor, said she is reluctant to criticize the staff’s decisions, saying, “I don’t know what could have been done differently, other than the idea of evacuating earlier, and just assuming the worst.” 

Pretty much the basis of the lawsuits, along with the floodplain stuff. 

Posted
2 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

Good article. If, it is in fact, true, it doesn't bode well for Camp Mystic. If Eastland got the 1am evacuation text, (and didn't begin to evacuate for an hour) he probably got the 1pm text from the previous day. I'm no @South Austin, but it doesn't look like the business will do well in civil suits. 

Clement, whose daughter is a counselor, said she is reluctant to criticize the staff’s decisions, saying, “I don’t know what could have been done differently, other than the idea of evacuating earlier, and just assuming the worst.” 

Pretty much the basis of the lawsuits, along with the floodplain stuff. 

To be clear, the 1:14am text was not an "evacuation" text though it probably should've been treated as such. It said "life threatening flash flooding was expected" or somesuch.

Mystic is gone. Plain and simple. The insurance policies are not going to be big enough to cover the liability claims. Read somewhere on this board (I think) that a group of parents -- mostly fathers -- have already started discussing a situation where they settle for policy limits and then the current Mystic grounds are turned into some kind of memorial and public recreation area. Mrs C-Man heard somewhere the Mystic property is worth anywhere from $50M-$100M but wonder if that much could be gotten considering what just happened there and future less-favorable flood mapping (presumably).

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

Clement, whose daughter is a counselor, said she is reluctant to criticize the staff’s decisions, saying, “I don’t know what could have been done differently, other than the idea of evacuating earlier, and just assuming the worst.” 

Live look at their lawyer:

Frustrated George Costanza GIF

47w397i0xtw91.jpg

Edited by chainsaw
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Posted
14 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Yeah, we're in an age full of scams, so it's appropriate to be skeptical of a lot of disaster relief funds. 

I'll figure out how to donate in other ways, but I'm making it a habit to add a few bucks on the HEB bill every time I check out, when I've usually blown over those charitable contributions in the past.  I'm confident that money (hopefully accumulating by thousands of others statewide doing the same at their HEBs) will be put to good use.

Like being open more often? 

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Posted
12 minutes ago, C-Man said:

To be clear, the 1:14am text was not an "evacuation" text though it probably should've been treated as such. It said "life threatening flash flooding was expected" or somesuch.

Mystic is gone. Plain and simple. The insurance policies are not going to be big enough to cover the liability claims. Read somewhere on this board (I think) that a group of parents -- mostly fathers -- have already started discussing a situation where they settle for policy limits and then the current Mystic grounds are turned into some kind of memorial and public recreation area. Mrs C-Man heard somewhere the Mystic property is worth anywhere from $50M-$100M but wonder if that much could be gotten considering what just happened there and future less-favorable flood mapping (presumably).

It will be interesting to see if they can get to the land.  And also interesting to see what happens to the value of land with river access.

I suspect some rich folks, like the ones on oceanfronts everywhere, are going to build things squarely in the danger zone, regardless.

Posted (edited)

You can build in the floodplain safely if you raise the base flood elevation of the home site.  It's just takes bringing in a shitton of dirt.  Your house may become an island during floods, but it will be untouched. 

Edited by kevwun
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Posted

I've already quoted this wondrous quote, but it bears repeating:

Kerr County Judge Robert Kelly said at a news conference on July 5 that “no one knew this kind of flood was coming.”

“This is the most dangerous river valley in the United States, and we deal with floods on a regular basis,” he said. “When it rains, we get water. We had no reason to believe that this was going to be anything like what’s happened here. None whatsoever.”

I know what he was trying to say, but it really does make him sound like an idiot. 

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Posted
16 hours ago, Brisketexan said:


What you’ll do is buy some sweet property at rock-bottom prices because the MAGAts who live there will all be in deep financial holes because they are relentlessly voting for self-destruction. Once the leopards have eaten enough of their faces, you can offer them pennies an d they’ll take it out of desperation. Fuck em.

So fun story on that: nearly a century ago, we had a Great Depression.  Many are saying it was the best Depression.  It came at the end of a half-century of nearly uninterupted Republican government.  Many people don't know that.

Anyway--I digress.

My family has had a few tracts in Bell County for a very long time.  I didn't really know how long.  I knew it was family land and that was it.  Cotton farming, mostly.  But Cotton is hard on the land; for the last 20 years it's been corn.  And corn doesn't make very much money.  So we leased the upper tract to a solar outfit to build a solar farm.

A few months ago, Oncor came asking for an easement to run transmission lines across the lower tract.  There was some family discussion, but at the end of it we decided to go ahead.  There was some discussion about the fact that my grandparents had kind of envisioned that as the bug-out property.  Papa worked for the DOD and figured it might be good to have a place of last resort if the end of the world came about.  And these days, . . . .

But in that discussion, I asked how it came about that the family owned this random property (or really set of properties) in Bell County.  And it turns out that my great-great grandfather was a soon-to-be-retired teacher in the very early 1930s, and as local farmers went bankrupt he would buy their tracts for virtually nothing from the local bank (which itself was about to (and ultimately did) go bust).  

So yeah--we leased out that tract to Oncor.  It paid for my son's first car: a new BMW.  There's plenty left over for his sister's car in a couple years.  And along with it comes a lesson in family history.  And why the family's crest ought to feature a vulture.

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Posted
33 minutes ago, C-Man said:

To be clear, the 1:14am text was not an "evacuation" text though it probably should've been treated as such. It said "life threatening flash flooding was expected" or somesuch.

That’s quite the hair you’re splitting. 

Posted
38 minutes ago, C-Man said:

To be clear, the 1:14am text was not an "evacuation" text though it probably should've been treated as such. It said "life threatening flash flooding was expected" or somesuch.

 

The article also said he alerted staff via walkie talkie around 1:30. What the fuck did he say? That should have been get the kids the fuck out

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

So fun story on that: nearly a century ago, we had a Great Depression.  Many are saying it was the best Depression.  It came at the end of a half-century of nearly uninterupted Republican government.  Many people don't know that.

Anyway--I digress.

My family has had a few tracts in Bell County for a very long time.  I didn't really know how long.  I knew it was family land and that was it.  Cotton farming, mostly.  But Cotton is hard on the land; for the last 20 years it's been corn.  And corn doesn't make very much money.  So we leased the upper tract to a solar outfit to build a solar farm.

A few months ago, Oncor came asking for an easement to run transmission lines across the lower tract.  There was some family discussion, but at the end of it we decided to go ahead.  There was some discussion about the fact that my grandparents had kind of envisioned that as the bug-out property.  Papa worked for the DOD and figured it might be good to have a place of last resort if the end of the world came about.  And these days, . . . .

But in that discussion, I asked how it came about that the family owned this random property (or really set of properties) in Bell County.  And it turns out that my great-great grandfather was a soon-to-be-retired teacher in the very early 1930s, and as local farmers went bankrupt he would buy their tracts for virtually nothing from the local bank (which itself was about to (and ultimately did) go bust).  

So yeah--we leased out that tract to Oncor.  It paid for my son's first car: a new BMW.  There's plenty left over for his sister's car in a couple years.  And along with it comes a lesson in family history.  And why the family's crest ought to feature a vulture.

Some of my family likely knew some of your family, speaking as one who also had a grandpa who farmed cotton in that area.

Posted
3 hours ago, austingirl said:

Have they really not found any of the missing people in the last several days? The number of missing has been ~160 since Abbott's press conference last Wednesday. I know they had to pause searching a few times because of weather, but I'm surprised that we haven't heard of anyone else being found since then.

did you see this pic?:

truck-buried-under-texas-flood-debris-v0-p0fwtq6es5cf1.webp.fe75bf178d2f299afedad9d915444f81.webp

organic material, so entombed, will be dissolved in weeks

time is short

the only way to find the probable location of buried remains is with this:

+++

Gas Chromatography-Mass Spectrometry (GC-MS): Considered the "gold standard" for forensic trace evidence analysis due to its capability to separate and analyze components within complex mixtures. GC-MS systems are highly sensitive and specific, offering detailed analysis of gases like hydrogen (H2), carbon dioxide (CO2), and methane (CH4), among others, that are released during decomposition.

+++

the duration of the putrefaction process varies but given the presence of moisture out-gassing detectable by gc-ms probably has at most a week remaining

i have not seen any gc-ms equipment in use in the recovery operation

anyone buried under water is gone unless the next flood unearths their bones

Posted
35 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

The article also said he alerted staff via walkie talkie around 1:30. What the fuck did he say? That should have been get the kids the fuck out

I think walkie comms at 1am aren’t enough. Staff should have been cabin to cabin in person 

Posted
28 minutes ago, Pablo said:

Some of my family likely knew some of your family, speaking as one who also had a grandpa who farmed cotton in that area.

Probably so. There aren’t just a whole lot of people out there.  So it’s easy to know the handful of family names.

The solar farms have been quite controversial, as I understand it.  I’m not a local, so I haven’t much paid attention.  I just know that some people aren’t happy with their neighbors leasing their land out to be used for power generation.

Posted

i missed this article from saturday

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/fema-removed-dozens-camp-mystic-buildings-100-year-123699282

"FEMA in 2013 amended the county's flood map to remove 15 of the camp’s buildings from the hazard area. Records show that those buildings were part of the 99-year-old Camp Mystic Guadalupe, which was devastated by last week’s flood.

After further appeals, FEMA removed 15 more Camp Mystic structures in 2019 and 2020 from the designation. Those buildings were located on nearby Camp Mystic Cypress Lake, a sister site that opened to campers in 2020 as part of a major expansion and suffered less damage in the flood."

Posted
13 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Are any of these people in Kerrville not white so Trump can blame it on DEI?

Best they can do is the Austin Fire Chief, who will somehow be responsible for every last death on the Guadalupe when all is said and done, despite Kerr County not sending out any alerts until 5am on the 4th. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Hagbard Celine said:

feature not bug: if you're buried in earth under water you're gone, if you are buried in wet earth exposed to air you've got 2 weeks to be found, which leaves 4 days

Sounds like something someone who's buried lots of bodies would say.

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Posted
43 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

feature not bug: if you're buried in earth under water you're gone, if you are buried in wet earth exposed to air you've got 2 weeks to be found, which leaves 4 days

WET earth.  Oh man, thats what I've been missing....

Posted

From the excellent MSN article. Nice to see that some parents aren't a part of the Camp Mystic cult and are already speaking out in protest. And this one is a lawyer.  

'Serena Aldrich, a lawyer from San Antonio whose two girls were rescued from Camp Mystic, said leaders “should have been taking every precaution,” given the risk.

“My opinion is that they should have been paying attention to those warnings and evacuated the camp,” she said. “The flooding is not a new thing. I don’t know if it’s ever been to epic proportions like that, but ignoring the warnings doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.”'

Posted

that's pretty calm for a protest, but she didn't lose her girls either

the entire mystic alumni network needs to stand down, observe radio silence, and let the families of the deceased rally the troops to set the gameplan

collectively the survivors and the bereaved represent an incredible opportunity to make their girls' lives mean something for the good of the country and the planet

but only with a collective voice, should they choose to wield it

 

“The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge, for the ears of the wise seek it out.”

Proverbs 18:15

Posted
49 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

From the excellent MSN article. Nice to see that some parents aren't a part of the Camp Mystic cult and are already speaking out in protest. And this one is a lawyer.  

'Serena Aldrich, a lawyer from San Antonio whose two girls were rescued from Camp Mystic, said leaders “should have been taking every precaution,” given the risk.

“My opinion is that they should have been paying attention to those warnings and evacuated the camp,” she said. “The flooding is not a new thing. I don’t know if it’s ever been to epic proportions like that, but ignoring the warnings doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.”'

Not sure what her being a lawyer has to do with anything. That's a very bland "protest" that seems like a common sense statement and sentiment that I'm sure is shared by countless people. Feel free to apply the following to any situation in which you are a caretaker to an individual or group: 1) take ever precaution against danger 2) pay attention to warnings about danger 3) reiterating, do not ignore warnings of danger.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, gernblansten said:

Feel free to apply the following to any situation in which you are a caretaker to an individual or group: 1) take ever precaution against danger 2) pay attention to warnings about danger 3) reiterating, do not ignore warnings of danger.

You sound like a "treasonous communist."

Posted
5 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Bots have been posting this about many rich or famous people. If you see these posts, the funeral costs have now been covered 100x.

If you see someone posting this, you really should unfriend that person or at least unfollow so you don't have to see their bs. What really sucks is that Google crawls publicly facing facebook posts, so people can google it as a "fact check" and they believe Google has fact checked in the search results. They haven't.

So far, I've seen these for Jose Altuve, Eric Clapton and Elon...none of which are true, to my knowledge

Posted
10 minutes ago, gernblansten said:

Not sure what her being a lawyer has to do with anything. That's a very bland "protest" that seems like a common sense statement and sentiment that I'm sure is shared by countless people. Feel free to apply the following to any situation in which you are a caretaker to an individual or group: 1) take ever precaution against danger 2) pay attention to warnings about danger 3) reiterating, do not ignore warnings of danger.

It's a little early for an organized response since everyone is in mourning and facts are slowly being uncovered, but I find her statement encouraging for the following reason: 

I have a connection to the Mystic community and they have voiced a fear that the cult would band together and pressure people not to sue for a myriad of reasons, including faith, politics, MAGA, etc. We had it happen here when a member of a nearby church camp drowned on the lake. So I find her willingness to voice criticism a good sign.   

Posted
1 hour ago, TreatyOak said:

From the excellent MSN article. Nice to see that some parents aren't a part of the Camp Mystic cult and are already speaking out in protest. And this one is a lawyer.  

'Serena Aldrich, a lawyer from San Antonio whose two girls were rescued from Camp Mystic, said leaders “should have been taking every precaution,” given the risk.

“My opinion is that they should have been paying attention to those warnings and evacuated the camp,” she said. “The flooding is not a new thing. I don’t know if it’s ever been to epic proportions like that, but ignoring the warnings doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.”'

That was a Washington Post article reprinted by MSN. Credit where it’s due. 

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Posted
17 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

That was a Washington Post article reprinted by MSN. Credit where it’s due. 

Thnx. It's a really good one, too. 

Posted
3 hours ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I think walkie comms at 1am aren’t enough. Staff should have been cabin to cabin in person 

For sure they aren't enough, but I want to know what was said. "Got an alert for catastrophic flooding, so it might be hard to sleep??" why did they wait so long 

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Posted
40 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

It's a little early for an organized response since everyone is in mourning and facts are slowly being uncovered, but I find her statement encouraging for the following reason: 

I have a connection to the Mystic community and they have voiced a fear that the cult would band together and pressure people not to sue for a myriad of reasons, including faith, politics, MAGA, etc. We had it happen here when a member of a nearby church camp drowned on the lake. So I find her willingness to voice criticism a good sign.   

please share with your connection the need for the entire mystic network to go silent, organize, and follow the lead of the families of the deceased

one voice

no rush

and do not let the cult infiltrate the circle of trust

they are correct - the cult is going to try

viciously

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Posted
5 hours ago, South Austin said:

I think she knows that.  But it's remarkable that we've heard the "160 missing" for several days, and numbers in the "missing" column have not been moving to the "deceased" column.  In other words, it seems odd that they haven't recovered significantly more of those missing in the past few days.  

This is exactly what I meant.

5 hours ago, C-Man said:

Buddy of mine is pretty high level AT&T employee and he was up there with his team this weekend. He said they heard the reason the number of "missing-found" isn't changing much is because they're no longer finding bodies, only body parts and they've got to DNA test them.

Makes sense.

Posted
6 hours ago, South Austin said:
6 hours ago, South Austin said:

Legitimate AI generation would have Elon throwing those kids in the water.

And a few of his own kids.

 

Posted
36 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

please share with your connection the need for the entire mystic network to go silent, organize, and follow the lead of the families of the deceased

What if the lead of the families of the deceased is to stay silent and not file lawsuits? I would hope not, but stranger things have happened. 

Posted
4 hours ago, Gap03 said:

Best they can do is the Austin Fire Chief, who will somehow be responsible for every last death on the Guadalupe when all is said and done, despite Kerr County not sending out any alerts until 5am on the 4th. 

Yeah he has taken a lot of heat for some kind failure during all of this. It did seem weird so much attention was being put on the Austin Fire Chief, but I was not aware he was black.

Posted
47 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

What if the lead of the families of the deceased is to stay silent and not file lawsuits? I would hope not, but stranger things have happened. 

let me rephrase

follow the collective will of the families of the deceased

i would hope that a majority of the families of the deceased have been in contact with each other, and i would hope that they have realized the need and the opportunity to avenge the souls of their girls, and i would hope that they have realized that working together they are exponentially stronger with a united voice and a common cause

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Posted
9 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

let me rephrase

follow the collective will of the families of the deceased

i would hope that a majority of the families of the deceased have been in contact with each other, and i would hope that they have realized the need and the opportunity to avenge the souls of their girls, and i would hope that they have realized that working together they are exponentially stronger with a united voice and a common cause

That would be my hope, as well. I have a funny feeling the lawyers for the property will make sure there won't be much to collect. 

I remember after the Columbine massacre, the families placed a large white cross on a hilltop for each person murdered. Some mother fucking moron jackass added two large black crosses to match the others at the memorial to honor the two shooters. One of the fathers of the murdered children pulled them down almost as soon as they went up. 

I honestly am pretty feeling done with the stupidity in this state and would like to go back to NYC.  



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