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Are you going to renounce your citizenship? That’s the only way you’re going to free yourself from the tentacles of the IRS. Honest question to those seriously considering. Dual citizenship is one thing - renouncing another level.

I have not decided. That said - if this place keeps heading towards a fascist state, who wants to be a citizen of that (besides white, land owing men)?
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In my high school sports days, we were required to pray. Admittedly I never saw anyone attempt to refuse but anyone in that environment knows that questioning the coach carried some risk.
As one of the non-religious kids, I basically has to learn the Lord’s Prayer as the coach would randomly call on someone to lead the team. This was pre-internet and wasn’t easy to learn in my house. I had to pay attention and quickly memorize it. I’m not even sure I ever paid attention to the meaning because it was only about getting through the moment.
I also believe there were a few asst coaches who could care less about the prayer but it was part of their gig.


I had the exact same experience, down to the rote memorization. I think I looked it up in an encyclopedia or tracked down it's location in the bible. Anyway, I was convinced that I was the lone heathen of the soccer team.

I like to think that my coach was a good man, that he'd never intentionally make any of his players feel excluded. I think he was just looking for a way to end practice. Then you see this coach performance praying with a football in front of the Supreme Court like a Tik Tok preacher... and that tells me exactly the kind of coach and Christian he is.
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As I mentioned above I'm not religious but I've never understand the fascination about some Christians being so adamant about praying in school. It doesn't offend me, and honesty I could care less but why force the issue in the classroom or on the football field? No one prevented you from praying at home.

However I think we know the answer. A fair # of Christians take proselytizing extremely seriously and will use any opportunity to do so. And that can be such a core part of their religious practices that they truly may not believe their prayer infringes on others.  Of course as we all know and they would openly agree, no other religion in the US should have that right.

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8 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

As I mentioned above I'm not religious but I've never understand the fascination about some Christians being so adamant about praying in school. It doesn't offend me, and honesty I could care less but why force the issue in the classroom or on the football field? No one prevented you from praying at home.

However I think we know the answer. A fair # of Christians take proselytizing extremely seriously and will use any opportunity to do so. And that can be such a core part of their religious practices that they truly may not believe their prayer infringes on others.  Of course as we all know and they would openly agree, no other religion in the US should have that right.

You're on the right track, but I wouldn't use such sterilized language. It's not just about opportunities to proselytize. It's about control. It's always been about control.

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1 hour ago, chainsaw said:

The real action will be when a kid is excluded due to a refusal to pray, or for saying the prayer differently.

USSC: 

"Cert denied!!!!"

dumb-dumber.gif

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2 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

You're on the right track, but I wouldn't use such sterilized language. It's not just about opportunities to proselytize. It's about control. It's always been about control.

And when you add the high school football environment to the mix, allowing a coach to pray on the field means that prayer participation is a requirement to play football.

Sure I imagine that a player could force the issue to avoid the prayer session but we also know there are consequences for disobeying a coach.

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21 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

You're on the right track, but I wouldn't use such sterilized language. It's not just about opportunities to proselytize. It's about control. It's always been about control.

grooming is the preferred nomenclature.  

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9 minutes ago, Nivek said:

grooming is the preferred nomenclature.  

accusation, confession. lather, rinse, repeat. how incredibly stupid and disingenuous people can continue to telegraph their moves and the rest of somehow still manage to be surprised when they do exactly what they said they were going to do. 

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42 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

As I mentioned above I'm not religious but I've never understand the fascination about some Christians being so adamant about praying in school. It doesn't offend me, and honesty I could care less but why force the issue in the classroom or on the football field? No one prevented you from praying at home.

No one prevented you from praying in solitude and/or silence in the classroom or the on the football field either.

I don’t think it’s primarily about proselytizing-there’s nothing particularly evangelistic about prayer, especially when it might feel compulsory. And I don’t think it’s primarily about control, either.  That picture said it all: it’s performative. “Look at me! I’m so righteous!”

And I say that as someone who IS religious.

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Just now, formermav43 said:

No one prevented you from praying in solitude and/or silence in the classroom or the on the football field either.

I don’t think it’s primarily about proselytizing-there’s nothing particularly evangelistic about prayer, especially when it might feel compulsory. And I don’t think it’s primarily about control, either.  That picture said it all: it’s performative. “Look at me! I’m so righteous!”

And I say that as someone who IS religious.

Get back in the pit with the lions.

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7 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

No one prevented you from praying in solitude and/or silence in the classroom or the on the football field either.

I don’t think it’s primarily about proselytizing-there’s nothing particularly evangelistic about prayer, especially when it might feel compulsory. And I don’t think it’s primarily about control, either.  That picture said it all: it’s performative. “Look at me! I’m so righteous!”

And I say that as someone who IS religious.

There's a performative aspect to it, but the reason for the lawsuit was to fuel a persecution complex and the reason for taking it all the way to SCOTUS is control.

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Just now, chainsaw said:

There's a performative aspect to it, but the reason for the lawsuit was to fuel a persecution complex and the reason for taking it all the way to SCOTUS is control.

Agree with the first part for sure. I think that’s tied up with the performative aspect of it-trying to create persecution where it doesn’t really exist.

I’d probably agree with the second part too the way you phrased it here. I was speaking more to the initial motivation for someone engaging in this sort of spectacle.

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2 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

Agree with the first part for sure. I think that’s tied up with the performative aspect of it-trying to create persecution where it doesn’t really exist.

I’d probably agree with the second part too the way you phrased it here. I was speaking more to the initial motivation for someone engaging in this sort of spectacle.

The thing about it is he's in a position of authority and control. Take it from the other former high school athletes in this thread. He knows what he's doing is coercive. I don't think it's possible to separate the control aspect from the spectacle aspect.

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Just now, chainsaw said:

The thing about it is he's in a position of authority and control. Take it from the other former high school athletes in this thread. He knows what he's doing is coercive. I don't think it's possible to separate the control aspect from the spectacle aspect.

Could be. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just not convinced that’s the primary motivation. (And I’m a former high school athlete too, fwiw and my brother is a high school football coach).  I read this guy as being much more inwardly than outwardly focused, personally.

At any rate, speculating as to his motivation(s) doesn’t really matter too much. We agree more than disagree. 

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17 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

No one prevented you from praying in solitude and/or silence in the classroom or the on the football field either.

I don’t think it’s primarily about proselytizing-there’s nothing particularly evangelistic about prayer, especially when it might feel compulsory. And I don’t think it’s primarily about control, either.  That picture said it all: it’s performative. “Look at me! I’m so righteous!”

And I say that as someone who IS religious.

Actually I had a coach require that I participate back in the 80s. It didn't scar me. I wasn't offended. However if given the choice, I wouldn't have done it. I realized that it was more for show than anything. 

Not to mention that I was always turned off by the idea that somehow God was deciding what was happening on the field/court. I'm far from a believer but I always found it unreal that believers think God determines the winners. Or even if God would protect someone from injury. All evidence shows that is not the case.

 

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2 hours ago, chainsaw said:

The real action will be when a kid is excluded due to a refusal to pray, or for saying the prayer differently.

i refuse to believe this group of pro-life do-gooders would put any (already born) child in a bad, potentially dangerous situation.

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i'm sure this has been posted, but in case anyone had any question about who's steering the ship here...

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/views-about-abortion#views-about-abortion

image.thumb.jpeg.ac13816bf1929bbe891b2bcf5ad319be.jpeg

 

the first amendment clearly states that my rights to impose my freedom of religion on anybody who gets in my way shall not be infringed upon.

read the constitution, people. 

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When I played football we had pregame team prayer occasionally someone would recite the Lord's Prayer then someone else would comment "what is this Catholic shit?" and vice versa for the non-Catholic prayers. Most prayers ended in "kick their ass!!!" That was pretty ecumenical of us.

 

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12 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Actually I had a coach require that I participate back in the 80s. It didn't scar me. I wasn't offended. However if given the choice, I wouldn't have done it. I realized that it was more for show than anything. 

Not to mention that I was always turned off by the idea that somehow God was deciding what was happening on the field/court. I'm far from a believer but I always found it unreal that believers think God determines the winners. Or even if God would protect someone from injury. All evidence shows that is not the case.

 

On that note I think it'd be hilarious if when that coach asks his kids if they're going to work out this summer they reply no coach we're just going to pray for God to give them strength instead and see how that goes over.

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23 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

The thing about it is he's in a position of authority and control. Take it from the other former high school athletes in this thread. He knows what he's doing is coercive. I don't think it's possible to separate the control aspect from the spectacle aspect.

It’s only possible if one thinks the world works the way it’s described in a Civics 101 course

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Just now, hpslugga said:

Oh and side note, I’m hoping that somewhere there’s a Satanist football coach ready to shake shit up:

E7B2C316-E483-49CB-8C74-DF6F3CFAAD93.thumb.jpeg.ca6aede6ec91e7675d7556f3d24ed530.jpeg

honestly all it would take is one muslim coach rolling out a prayer mat to make a lot of people lose their shit

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10 minutes ago, Grade of D as in David said:

On that note I think it'd be hilarious if when that coach asks his kids if they're going to work out this summer they reply no coach we're just going to pray for God to give them strength instead and see how that goes over.

Every Dazed and Confused Character, Ranked by Coolness | WIRED

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1 minute ago, Grade of D as in David said:

On that note I think it'd be hilarious if when that coach asks his kids if they're going to work out this summer they reply no coach we're just going to pray for God to give them strength instead and see how that goes over.

As my old head football coach once said, "Let's set the FCA (Fellowship of Christian Athletes) stuff aside for a moment so pardon my French. You fucking pussies are going to get your asses kicked up and down that field if you don't work harder!!!" There was a lot more screaming but I distinctly remember the calmness of him telling us to forget about the Christian stuff before going into screaming cussing mode.

In my experience Prayer and Jesus talk from our football coach was more like this.

 

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Posted (edited)

The hypocrisy of the court requiring that public schools allow prayer during official events while presumably they'd have no problem with the "Don't Say Gay" law and bans on "CRT" is really quite stunning.

Edited by DDD Dad
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3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Johnny Prays a Lot gets the starting reps. Alan Atheist doesn’t get playing time, and for some reason, is a “problem player” who has to run extra laps all the time.

I assume Coach Bible Thumper wants to keep his job and at some point will have to play Alan Atheist and his sub 4.3 forty over Johnny and his 5.0+ forty.

The old saying that USC putting an absolute ass-whipping on Alabama back in the OJ Simpson days did more to integrate Alabama's public schools than any court case applies here as well.

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8 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

The hypocrisy of the court requiring that public schools allow prayer during official events while presumably they'd have no problem with the "Don't Say Gay" and bans on "CRT" is really quite stunning.

Don't worry.  I'm sure all manner of christo-fascist non-sense is on its way to the Supreme Court for rubber stamping.  It is quite clear the doors have been flung open.

It's going to be amusing when the Catholic justices realize that their Protestant "brethren' don't see them as "real" Christians.  When Gorsuch got all high and mighty about "history" he should've been looking at the English Religious wars.  But never you mind, we'll have our own before long.  Just like the rest of the world. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

I assume Coach Bible Thumper wants to keep his job and at some point will have to play Alan Atheist and his sub 4.3 forty over Johnny and his 5.0+ forty.

The old saying that USC putting an absolute ass-whipping on Alabama back in the OJ Simpson days did more to integrate Alabama's public schools than any court case applies here as well.

sam cunningham.  o.j. never played against bammer.  cunningham and usc went to birmingham and beat no. 16 bama 42-21 in which cunningham ran for a couple of touchdowns on 135 yards.  usc outgained the tide by over 400 yards.

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40 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i'm sure this has been posted, but in case anyone had any question about who's steering the ship here...

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/views-about-abortion#views-about-abortion

image.thumb.jpeg.ac13816bf1929bbe891b2bcf5ad319be.jpeg

 

the first amendment clearly states that my rights to impose my freedom of religion on anybody who gets in my way shall not be infringed upon.

read the constitution, people. 

Those goddamn Jehovah's Witnesses

airplane-movie.gif

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49 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

Don't worry.  I'm sure all manner of christo-fascist non-sense is on its way to the Supreme Court for rubber stamping.  It is quite clear the doors have been flung open.

It's going to be amusing when the Catholic justices realize that their Protestant "brethren' don't see them as "real" Christians.  When Gorsuch got all high and mighty about "history" he should've been looking at the English Religious wars.  But never you mind, we'll have our own before long.  Just like the rest of the world. 

 

Except for the unique situation in Northern Ireland, the Protestant vs Catholic animosity has died out since the end of WWII and by the fundagelicals since the late 70s . Working together in the pro-life movement caused those feelings to dissipate.

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Just now, Macklemore said:

Except for the unique situation in Northern Ireland, the Protestant vs Catholic animosity has died out since the end of WWII and by the fundagelicals since the late 70s . Working together in the pro-life movement caused those feelings to dissipate.

Get fucked dude.  I lived it right here in East Texas. 

There were no shortage of Baptists and other fundamentalists willing to tell me how catholics weren't really Christians.  

 

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1 hour ago, formermav43 said:

Could be. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just not convinced that’s the primary motivation. (And I’m a former high school athlete too, fwiw and my brother is a high school football coach).  I read this guy as being much more inwardly than outwardly focused, personally.

At any rate, speculating as to his motivation(s) doesn’t really matter too much. We agree more than disagree. 

Nothing says inwardly focused on faith like demanding to pray in the middle of a football field while fans are present. 

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4 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

Except for the unique situation in Northern Ireland, the Protestant vs Catholic animosity has died out since the end of WWII and by the fundagelicals since the late 70s . Working together in the pro-life movement caused those feelings to dissipate.

lulz

Just bring up Apostolic Succession, infant baptism, praying to the Saints, Sola Scriptura, Martin Luther and a lot of other topics and the knives come out.

 

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3 minutes ago, F250 said:

lulz

Just bring up Apostolic Succession, infant baptism, praying to the Saints, Sola Scriptura, Martin Luther and a lot of other topics and the knives come out.

 

You forgot purgatory.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Nothing says inwardly focused on faith like demanding to pray in the middle of a football field while fans are present. 

Probably a poor choice of words on my part there, but not at all what I was trying to convey if you read the thread (and you added the “faith” part). I meant he’s all about glorifying himself. It’s narcissism.

Edited by formermav43
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